Who and whom
November 22, 2010 7:12 AM Subscribe
Anyone have a simple way to teach the correct usage of 'who' and 'whom'?
I've always struggled with 'who' and 'whom'.
I don't need to know the grammatical technicalities, I just need a simple and memorable way to remember how they should be used.
If there's anyone out there who/whom can help, I'd be grateful!
Thanks.
I've always struggled with 'who' and 'whom'.
I don't need to know the grammatical technicalities, I just need a simple and memorable way to remember how they should be used.
If there's anyone out there who/whom can help, I'd be grateful!
Thanks.
Best answer: Use "whom" where you'd use "him". You can remember this because they both end in the letter m. (If whom is being used as a question, or an embedded sentence, make it a simple sentence -- "Whom are you thinking of?" -> "You are thinking of him.")
posted by jeather at 7:16 AM on November 22, 2010 [13 favorites]
posted by jeather at 7:16 AM on November 22, 2010 [13 favorites]
All the "m" pronouns are in the same category (him, them, whom--objective case). In questions, answer the question with one of these pronouns to see if you should use whom. If you answer with him/them, then you have the same category of pronoun and should use "whom."
Who/m should I take to the game? I should take him/them to the game. (whom)
Who/m should order pizza tonight? He should order pizza tonight. (who, because you wouldn't say "Him should order pizza.")
posted by BlooPen at 7:16 AM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
Who/m should I take to the game? I should take him/them to the game. (whom)
Who/m should order pizza tonight? He should order pizza tonight. (who, because you wouldn't say "Him should order pizza.")
posted by BlooPen at 7:16 AM on November 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
Who and whom are pronouns. Anywhere you would use she or he as the pronoun, use who; anywhere you'd use her or him, use whom. (This mnemonic will not ALWAYS work. But it will make you aware of what you're doing, and it's easy to remember.)
posted by cgc373 at 7:16 AM on November 22, 2010
posted by cgc373 at 7:16 AM on November 22, 2010
I usually think of the phrase "Who throws the ball to whom?," since it reminds me that "who" is the one doing the action and "whom" is the one being acted upon. Again, isn't failproof, but it's helpful.
posted by emilyd22222 at 7:26 AM on November 22, 2010
posted by emilyd22222 at 7:26 AM on November 22, 2010
For me it's a tonal thing -- like in French, you sometimes have to bridge the gap between the last letter of one word with the first of another. It's the same in English: "the man who I saw today" does not sound as good as "the man whom I saw today". There's a technical term for this and I can't remember what it's called.
posted by patronuscharms at 7:29 AM on November 22, 2010
posted by patronuscharms at 7:29 AM on November 22, 2010
Who = I
Whom = me
(Or he/him, she/her, they/them, whatever set of pronouns floats your boat.)
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:31 AM on November 22, 2010
Whom = me
(Or he/him, she/her, they/them, whatever set of pronouns floats your boat.)
posted by Metroid Baby at 7:31 AM on November 22, 2010
You can also just skip "whom" entirely most of the time. "Whom" sounds more proper, but "who" is now a totally acceptable objective-case pronoun. You might want to use "whom" for extremely formal writing (your dissertation, a legal contract, etc), but otherwise if in doubt, skip it.
patronuscharms is incorrect, by the way - it has to do with whether the person described by who/whom is the subject or object of the sentence. Nothing at all to do with liaison or elision. Furthermore, the most elegant way to write the example phrase given there would be "The man I saw today" - it sounds weird because it doesn't need a pronoun at all. Using "whom" just makes the person seem like they are in dire need of written communication skills.
If you are stuck in the position of guessing based on what "sounds right", again, just forget the word "whom" ever existed.
posted by Sara C. at 7:36 AM on November 22, 2010 [8 favorites]
patronuscharms is incorrect, by the way - it has to do with whether the person described by who/whom is the subject or object of the sentence. Nothing at all to do with liaison or elision. Furthermore, the most elegant way to write the example phrase given there would be "The man I saw today" - it sounds weird because it doesn't need a pronoun at all. Using "whom" just makes the person seem like they are in dire need of written communication skills.
If you are stuck in the position of guessing based on what "sounds right", again, just forget the word "whom" ever existed.
posted by Sara C. at 7:36 AM on November 22, 2010 [8 favorites]
I agree with everyone except patronuscharms (though I agree with patronuscharms's example). Don't throw around "whom" wherever it sounds good; that's how people go wrong with this.
3 things to remember:
Mentally rearrange the sentence without "who" or "whom." If the antecedent is an individual person, always use the male gender even if the person is female. If you'd use "he," use "who"; if you'd use "him," use "whom." If the antecedent is plural, would you use "they" or "them"? If "they," use "who"; if "them," use "whom." The pronouns that end with a vowel sound go together (he, they, who), and the pronouns that end with an "m" go together (him, them, whom). ("She" and "her" are grammatically equivalent, but the mnemonic doesn't work since "her" doesn't end with an "m.")
As mentioned above, the mnemonic works because he, she, they, and who refer to subjects; him, her, them, and whom refer to objects. So, if you're wondering whether the object of a preposition is "who" or "whom," the answer is "whom." For example, if you tell me you received a letter, I might ask: "A letter from whom?" "Whom" is the object of the preposition "from." Or, to apply the mnemonic: you'd say "A letter from him" or "A letter from them"; you would never dream of saying "A letter from he" or "A letter from they."
One more thing: in general, use "who" — unless you are 100% sure of what you're doing. If you could have correctly used "whom," most people won't notice, and even people who do notice might think you're simply avoiding "whom" because it sounds stuffy. But using "whom" when you should use "who" is a grievous error. It says: "I tried really hard to be proper, but I failed."
posted by John Cohen at 7:40 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
3 things to remember:
Mentally rearrange the sentence without "who" or "whom." If the antecedent is an individual person, always use the male gender even if the person is female. If you'd use "he," use "who"; if you'd use "him," use "whom." If the antecedent is plural, would you use "they" or "them"? If "they," use "who"; if "them," use "whom." The pronouns that end with a vowel sound go together (he, they, who), and the pronouns that end with an "m" go together (him, them, whom). ("She" and "her" are grammatically equivalent, but the mnemonic doesn't work since "her" doesn't end with an "m.")
As mentioned above, the mnemonic works because he, she, they, and who refer to subjects; him, her, them, and whom refer to objects. So, if you're wondering whether the object of a preposition is "who" or "whom," the answer is "whom." For example, if you tell me you received a letter, I might ask: "A letter from whom?" "Whom" is the object of the preposition "from." Or, to apply the mnemonic: you'd say "A letter from him" or "A letter from them"; you would never dream of saying "A letter from he" or "A letter from they."
One more thing: in general, use "who" — unless you are 100% sure of what you're doing. If you could have correctly used "whom," most people won't notice, and even people who do notice might think you're simply avoiding "whom" because it sounds stuffy. But using "whom" when you should use "who" is a grievous error. It says: "I tried really hard to be proper, but I failed."
posted by John Cohen at 7:40 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Never mind, I know why my shortcut example was wrong. The word I was thinking of is "liaison" and it's only by coincidence that the times at which I use whom happen to work in that way. Awkward. I need to stop blending my understanding of different grammar rules together. *blush*
posted by patronuscharms at 7:46 AM on November 22, 2010
posted by patronuscharms at 7:46 AM on November 22, 2010
Sara C.: If you are stuck in the position of guessing based on what "sounds right", again, just forget the word "whom" ever existed
I dispute this. So would Ernest Hemingway. For that matter, so would Metallica.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:52 AM on November 22, 2010
I dispute this. So would Ernest Hemingway. For that matter, so would Metallica.
posted by DarlingBri at 7:52 AM on November 22, 2010
You can test your new knowledge of Who and Whom here.
posted by stungeye at 7:58 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by stungeye at 7:58 AM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Who" is a pronoun like "I," "she," and "he," i.e. a pronoun you use instead of a subject noun.
"Whom" is a pronoun like "me," "her," and "him," i.e. a pronoun you use instead of an object noun.
This is roughly analogous to nominative and accusative cases, though English doesn't really use declension or cases the way that, for example, German still does. Still, I know that I learned a ton about English grammar in the process of learning what little German I know, so if you do know a language which still uses declension, that may be helpful.
posted by valkyryn at 7:59 AM on November 22, 2010
"Whom" is a pronoun like "me," "her," and "him," i.e. a pronoun you use instead of an object noun.
This is roughly analogous to nominative and accusative cases, though English doesn't really use declension or cases the way that, for example, German still does. Still, I know that I learned a ton about English grammar in the process of learning what little German I know, so if you do know a language which still uses declension, that may be helpful.
posted by valkyryn at 7:59 AM on November 22, 2010
I dispute this. So would Ernest Hemingway.
Note that Hemingway's use of whom in the title is a direct quote from a piece of 17th century writing.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:13 AM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
Note that Hemingway's use of whom in the title is a direct quote from a piece of 17th century writing.
posted by burnmp3s at 8:13 AM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
Who uses "whom" anymore? Only *****. Unfortunately, I may be one. Anyway, "whom" has become antiquated and there are good reasons for not using it even if you have had the rules well beaten into your head since you were a youngster. Using it can make you look snobby. To not look snobby and to not make an embarrassing error just stick to "who" as both subject and object. Problem solved, unless your question is more academic in which case BlooPen has the best answer.
posted by caddis at 8:24 AM on November 22, 2010
posted by caddis at 8:24 AM on November 22, 2010
This "for dummies" page has some examples and then a discussion in the comments - I think the conclusion by the end of which is basically, fuck it. "Who" is usually acceptable, or you can rewrite the sentence to avoid having to make the decision. It's safe to use whom if you ever want to say "of" or "for" [that person already or about to be referred to], but otherwise I wouldn't get stuck on it.
posted by mdn at 8:37 AM on November 22, 2010
posted by mdn at 8:37 AM on November 22, 2010
>>I dispute this. So would Ernest Hemingway.
>Note that Hemingway's use of whom in the title is a direct quote from a piece of 17th century writing.
I've lost the thread here. "For whom" is a textbook preposition-object construction. "Who" would be not at all right there.
BlooPen has it.
posted by purpleclover at 8:40 AM on November 22, 2010
>Note that Hemingway's use of whom in the title is a direct quote from a piece of 17th century writing.
I've lost the thread here. "For whom" is a textbook preposition-object construction. "Who" would be not at all right there.
BlooPen has it.
posted by purpleclover at 8:40 AM on November 22, 2010
Most of the advice you get here is fine if you're worried about using "whom". I maintain that you don't need to worry, though. Whom is just a stubby remnant of the former case system, and in pretty much all cases it's clear from the word order which is the subject and which is the object, so there's no need to distinguish who/whom.
If it really were necessary, we would have some way of marking this case for ordinary nouns and not just pronouns.
posted by altolinguistic at 8:52 AM on November 22, 2010
If it really were necessary, we would have some way of marking this case for ordinary nouns and not just pronouns.
posted by altolinguistic at 8:52 AM on November 22, 2010
You can tell by the verb: 'who' initiates action; 'whom' receives it.
posted by LooseFilter at 10:23 AM on November 22, 2010
posted by LooseFilter at 10:23 AM on November 22, 2010
If you use "who" when it should be "whom" you might sound informal; if you use "whom" when it should be "who" you sound like a wannabe-pretentious jackass who doesn't even understand the basic rules of grammar. So many people just skip "whom" entirely, which is OK by me, I guess.
"To who it may concern" still sounds weird to me, though.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:42 AM on November 22, 2010
"To who it may concern" still sounds weird to me, though.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:42 AM on November 22, 2010
Jeather's got it. If one of the pronouns ending in m would make sense in the sentence structure, then whom is more correct.
posted by VelveteenBabbitt at 10:49 AM on November 22, 2010
posted by VelveteenBabbitt at 10:49 AM on November 22, 2010
I basically use whom only directly after prepositions: "To whom am I speaking?" but "Who am I speaking to?" I think this is pretty standard, and I highly recommend it as "a simple and memorable way to remember how they should be used." Ignore anyone who urges you to say something like "Whom should I take to the game?"
posted by languagehat at 1:16 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by languagehat at 1:16 PM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]
Please god, do not use 'whom' when "it sounds right". You just look like a pretentious dick, because I promise you're going to fuck it right up. And then people like me, who do know the rules, will call you on using it incorrectly. And then you'll look like a pretentious dick who can't even be bothered to learn the rules of the pretension.
Personally, I follow languagehat's approach: I use 'whom' only with prepositions. Although, I also try not to end sentences with prepositions (at least in writing), so I may wind up using 'whom' more often than he might.
posted by Netzapper at 1:42 PM on November 22, 2010
Personally, I follow languagehat's approach: I use 'whom' only with prepositions. Although, I also try not to end sentences with prepositions (at least in writing), so I may wind up using 'whom' more often than he might.
posted by Netzapper at 1:42 PM on November 22, 2010
I basically use whom only directly after prepositions: "To whom am I speaking?" but "Who am I speaking to?" I think this is pretty standard, and I highly recommend it as "a simple and memorable way to remember how they should be used." Ignore anyone who urges you to say something like "Whom should I take to the game?"
Well, I think it might be useful to know whether this is spoken or written. Your examples are clearly meant to be spoken, but the OP didn't specify this. If it's spoken, don't bother using "whom" at all unless you're already using a formal phrase like "To whom am I speaking?" If you're writing, I'd go by the grammar rules that most people have pointed out in this thread.
posted by John Cohen at 2:01 PM on November 22, 2010
Well, I think it might be useful to know whether this is spoken or written. Your examples are clearly meant to be spoken, but the OP didn't specify this. If it's spoken, don't bother using "whom" at all unless you're already using a formal phrase like "To whom am I speaking?" If you're writing, I'd go by the grammar rules that most people have pointed out in this thread.
posted by John Cohen at 2:01 PM on November 22, 2010
patronuscharms, I think the word you're searching for is liaison. But it's pretty strictly French, and there are rules for when you can and cannot use it, so I wouldn't try to apply it to English.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 2:13 PM on November 22, 2010
posted by Solon and Thanks at 2:13 PM on November 22, 2010
Calvin Trillin, who writes for the New Yorker, says that anyone who uses "whom" sounds like a butler.
posted by yclipse at 2:38 PM on November 22, 2010
posted by yclipse at 2:38 PM on November 22, 2010
patronuscharms, I think the word you're searching for is liaison. But it's pretty strictly French, and there are rules for when you can and cannot use it, so I wouldn't try to apply it to English.
There are a couple examples in English. One is modern: a/an ('an' is used before a vowel). The others are archaic: thy/thine (same rule), my/mine (so it's 'mine eyes have seen the glory...').
posted by Netzapper at 3:28 PM on November 22, 2010
There are a couple examples in English. One is modern: a/an ('an' is used before a vowel). The others are archaic: thy/thine (same rule), my/mine (so it's 'mine eyes have seen the glory...').
posted by Netzapper at 3:28 PM on November 22, 2010
I agree that misusing the word "whom" sounds pretentious. But just because some people claim using the word correctly makes you sound pretentious or "like a butler" doesn't mean that it actually does. If you figure out the correct way to use it, I say do so without compunction.
posted by ViolaGrinder at 4:20 PM on November 22, 2010
posted by ViolaGrinder at 4:20 PM on November 22, 2010
I've lost the thread here. "For whom" is a textbook preposition-object construction. "Who" would be not at all right there.
It's from John Donne:
"Send not to know / for whom the bell tolls. / It tolls for thee."
Just as we don't say "thee" anymore, "whom" is also somewhat antiquated and usually not necessary.
If Donne were writing now, he's probably say, "Do not ask who the bell tolls for. / It tolls for you."
The funny thing about Hemingway using that quote is the fact that Hemingway was pretty much the beginning of the end for stuffy constructions like "send not to know for whom..."
posted by Sara C. at 6:02 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's from John Donne:
"Send not to know / for whom the bell tolls. / It tolls for thee."
Just as we don't say "thee" anymore, "whom" is also somewhat antiquated and usually not necessary.
If Donne were writing now, he's probably say, "Do not ask who the bell tolls for. / It tolls for you."
The funny thing about Hemingway using that quote is the fact that Hemingway was pretty much the beginning of the end for stuffy constructions like "send not to know for whom..."
posted by Sara C. at 6:02 PM on November 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
"To who it may concern" still sounds weird to me, though.
That's one of those formal writing situations in which you might want to flaunt your understanding of "whom". However, nowadays I believe the advice is that, if you're writing formal business correspondence, you need to know who to address your letter to (Or, I suppose, "to whom to address your letter"). Nobody writes "to whom it may concern", anymore. You write "Dear Ms. Jones", or you call the customer service department like the pleb that you are.
posted by Sara C. at 6:05 PM on November 22, 2010
That's one of those formal writing situations in which you might want to flaunt your understanding of "whom". However, nowadays I believe the advice is that, if you're writing formal business correspondence, you need to know who to address your letter to (Or, I suppose, "to whom to address your letter"). Nobody writes "to whom it may concern", anymore. You write "Dear Ms. Jones", or you call the customer service department like the pleb that you are.
posted by Sara C. at 6:05 PM on November 22, 2010
Response by poster: What a fantastic response!
I had no idea so many out there cared enough to spend such time and effort.
I truly appreciate it.
Thanks a lot.
posted by Blackwatch at 4:31 AM on November 24, 2010
I had no idea so many out there cared enough to spend such time and effort.
I truly appreciate it.
Thanks a lot.
posted by Blackwatch at 4:31 AM on November 24, 2010
I know you already found your answer, but I wanted to point you to a blog (and podcast) that has helped me answer a lot of questions like this in a fun way. The blog is Grammar Girl: Quick and Dirty Tips for Better Writing. She gives you cute little tricks to remember grammar rules. Here's her post about who versus whom:
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/who-versus-whom.aspx
posted by RUPure at 4:55 PM on November 26, 2010
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/who-versus-whom.aspx
posted by RUPure at 4:55 PM on November 26, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Blake at 7:15 AM on November 22, 2010 [2 favorites]