Humanities Ph.D. leaving academia

November 7, 2010 3:45 PM

I've been reading a number of what to do with my life threads on MetaFilter. This is my addition.

I finished up a Ph.D. in East Asian Languages and Civ. from an Ivy, speak and read Chinese proficiently (non-native), and I absolutely hate academia. I’m getting out, and that’s that. I know–why invest 10+years of your life in a field getting a Ph.D. if you hate it? Well, I started out liking it, but hated it midway through. In any case, it’s too late to change that, and I finished because I wasn’t going to throw away a Ph.D. from an Ivy.

My problem is that I need to do something practical in life and fast. I’m old–36–and I’ve been thinking about getting another degree, but I’m not sure what I should be looking at.

In a nutshell, I want to work on something that lets me look at data, analyze it, and write about it, and act on it (I have an undergrad chem. degree). Among the possible careers I’ve been considering are a Masters in Public Accounting (seems stable), MBA (but I have no real work experience), Masters in Public Policy, or an MA in statistics.

For readers out there, which of these careers would be the fastest and most employable way out of academia?

Some other notes. I’ve been offered tt academic jobs (and I might accept one of them), but I don’t think I have it in me to do the research and writing needed to get tenure. For the academics out there, have any of you been completely ambivalent about a career in academia but warmed to it once you started. I know I can do enough to get tenure—I just don’t like academia.

With respect to applying to government bureaus. Done it, and I’m processing at a few places—however, all they ever give you is a conditional offer. A guarantee of nothing. So I’m looking out for myself and the worst case scenario.

posted by 630 to Work & Money (18 answers total)

First: You're 36! You're not old!

Check out Versatile PhD, it is a great online community for people looking for a quick path out of academia

Also, email the mods and ask them to put part of your question into the "more inside", please!
posted by arnicae at 3:51 PM on November 7, 2010 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Hi arnicae--yup I've read everything there,WRK4US, and Leaving Academe. They have good info, but none of it has worked for me.
posted by 630 at 4:02 PM on November 7, 2010

You've already said you've applied to some government places, but I wanted to say that the CIA would love you.

I want to work on something that lets me look at data, analyze it, and write about it, and act on it

Yep, that would be exactly what you'd be doing as an analyst. Especially with a science background you could work with non-proliferation, saving the world and what not.

And yeah, it would be conditional on your obtaining a clearance. 6 months wouldn't be unheard of.
posted by fontophilic at 4:15 PM on November 7, 2010

MA in statistics

The rumor mill has it that statistics is a good field to be in, employability-wise. See, for example, For today's graduate, just one word: statistics (New York Times, about a year ago). My PhD (May 2010) is in math; sometimes lately I wish I'd gotten one in stats instead. (I currently teach in a statistics department, which may have something to do with this, as I hear more about statistics than I used to.) I'm kind of curious to see what people come up with as answers to your question, as I'm having similar misgivings about academia.
posted by madcaptenor at 4:16 PM on November 7, 2010

Don't take a tenure track job if you aren't totally enthused about it. There are so many people out there who would kill for one of those jobs - it kind of sucks to take it up if you aren't really interested.

If you want to work on data and write about it, what about management consulting? That's the path that a lot of my peers took after a humanities/social sciences PhD. It lets you do the researchy sort of thing without the academic focus, and it's very well paid!

I'm a bit confused about the line "Among the possible careers I’ve been considering are a Masters in Public Accounting (seems stable), MBA (but I have no real work experience), Masters in Public Policy, or an MA in statistics." - these aren't careers: they are further degrees. Even with them, you still have a range of careers to consider, and some of those careers wouldn't require the degree necessarily. Why don't you start by figuring out some career paths you might like, and then looking at whether you need further qualifications?
posted by lollusc at 4:18 PM on November 7, 2010

Response by poster: Hi lollusc--I tried applying to management consulting companies. The problem right now is that there's a glut of MBAs, so for people with humanties PhDs aren't really in the running. Thus, I was thinking about MBAs. From what I've read, an MBA is more about where you went to school, so I have no idea what my chances for a good school would be without business work experience.

You're right, Acct,MBA,MPA, MA are further degrees. I've been working as a researcher for about a year and a half and looking for ways out (admin, etc.), but I've been having zero luck. Short of the government, I feel as if getting another degree is my only option to have a shot at another career.
posted by 630 at 4:31 PM on November 7, 2010

Are you not considering moving to China? Language fluency is a career in and of itself here, and is at least a place to start while you figure out your next direction.
posted by markovitch at 5:01 PM on November 7, 2010 [1 favorite]

I would also encourage you to continue looking for government jobs, unless you're opposed to working for the government on principle. There's a lot of unexpected positions in the government, and the salary for someone with a PhD is not bad at all. For instance, the Defense Intelligence Agency employs someone who holds a doctorate in history as their agency historian.
posted by Nomyte at 5:05 PM on November 7, 2010 [2 favorites]

Response by poster: Hi Nomyte--I think I applied to that historian position twice. I'll keep an eye out for more stuff at DIA, but I've never had any luck with them.

Markovitch--I was thinking about moving out there, but for now I want to figure out a way to settle down stateside on the east coast.

Thanks for the tips.
posted by 630 at 6:08 PM on November 7, 2010

"I've been working as a researcher for about a year and a half and looking for ways out (admin, etc.), but I've been having zero luck."

Does this mean that you are open to other suggestions, other than the things that require more degrees?

Here are a few that either I or colleagues (with PhDs who wanted OUT of academia) went into, and these did not require additional degrees. You obviously have to decide if your interest is in these fields, but they hit some of the criteria that you list:

• There are academic positions that may not require you to commit (check out sabbatical replacement jobs, for example); if you are being offered tenure track jobs, you can be offered those and just test as to whether you think you will or will not enjoy academia (okay, I did this for a year...I did not know whether I would want to continue or not/I actually enjoyed teaching uni students, but could not take living in the small towns, which is where these jobs were offered)

• Patent law - they want you to understand the science (making the assumption that your degree plus undergrad chemistry will get you in) -- but they provide the paid training, and once you start working at the job, they will fund a law degree if you decide that you want more education

• Medical writing - there are different types of medical education/writing jobs. At a continuing medical education jobs, for example, you may write material (powerpoint decks or articles) to teach physicians (don't worry, you work with or the material is reviewed by a clinician) or you write grants seeking funding. Another option is to write journal articles in collaboration with investigators, etc. , but you definitely get the data/analyze it/write about it. There are medical education companies that ...would love to see the science background and several of these companies want their science people/writers to have a Masters degree and/or a PhD. If you live near a large city in the east coast, there are lots and lots of companies that do this kind of work. If this is what you wanted to do, I would just send out emails to these companies. Between now and the end of the year, they have a lot of work and do want to hire people.

Those are things that a few colleagues have done, but there are really a lot of options that you may not see right now.

Also going to throw in a 2 cent opinion – I think statistics is a great place to be – I know people with a Masters degree in stats (at pharma copmanies), and their names go on all the papers, they get to play with the data, and often times are the only people that really understand the study (IMO). In retrospect, I think that life would have been a bit more interesting for me if I would have gone for that stats degree, too. Oh well, c'est la vie.
posted by Wolfster at 6:48 PM on November 7, 2010 [1 favorite]

Usajobs.gov - plug in phd + chinese

(That's what I did, with my region, and got a job!)

Alternatively, can you stay in your program a little longer and take some stats/methods coursework?
posted by k8t at 7:01 PM on November 7, 2010

What is it that you hate about academia?

Some of the same objections might apply to many other jobs where you "look at data, analyze it, and write about it". And there are few areas in which the people that do the analysis are also the ones that get to act on it.

Given that you've already made one big switch, and found that after a few years you ended up hating the field you liked at first, some serious thinking on what exactly you know and don't know about your likes and dislikes seems to be called for.

Maybe you've done that already, but not told us in your question.

If you're sure that analyzing data is the way to go, you might look at a Masters in Analytics as another option. The math pre-requisites are generally a lot less than for a Statistics MSc, and the employability is high.
posted by philipy at 7:30 PM on November 7, 2010

Response by poster: Hi Wolfster--I've been working as a researcher in my field, that is, on a book project related to pre-modern East Asia. The pay isn't bad, I live near a large East coast city, and my hours are 9-5. I've been avoiding the adjuncting route for the same reasons you mentioned. I'll take a look at patent law. I did a apply to a few patent law jobs on USAJOBS, but I had no luck. Will try again. I hadn't considered medical writing at all--I will look into it, too. And I'm sure you are right about their being other options that I am simply not seeing. That's the worst part--I simply don't see them.

k8t--wow! you're the first and only person I've met who has gotten a job of USAJobs. I'll try your method, too. Unfortunately, I'm out of my program. Finished the PhD a year ago.

philipy--what I hate most about academia is 1)publish or perish to get tenure 2) location 3) the sense that you're stuck focusing on topics that at a certain point are utterly impractical (pre-modern Chinese history) and most importantly (4) lack of a boundary between "work" vs "personal life". The reason I like my current job is that at five, It's over. I can go home and not think at all about it. As a professor in the humanities, I never see that happen. Your job is your life and the two bleed together.

In my case, I actually have a shot at a tt job near DC. So, 2 is gone, and it is a 3-2, so it is mostly a teaching school, but they'd still expect some level of publication (book and 3-4 articles) that I could handle. But, that last part, 3,4 kills it for me when I think about it. It would be 5 years of working on that until I was tenured and could change my focus to some other period--like modern Chinese history (which I might enjoy). What bothers me is that when I go to conferences, I see colleagues excitedly discussing the finer points of some dynasty or historical point, and I literally just think "who cares--it's old and dead" and want to run out of there.

My other worry w/ taking a tt (if offered) is that if one of these federal jobs comes through, I would want to get out ASAP. And I wouldn't want to sign a contract for a tt job, and then just not show up for two reasons. It might screw up future clearances and two it just doesn't see fair to the school.

You're right about the one big switch, and that's what worries me. Am I someone that just hates what I do every 7 years? I hope not.

Finally, I hadnt thought at all about the MA in Analytics. will look into that.

thanks!
posted by 630 at 10:35 PM on November 7, 2010

I'd also pop in phd + asia, research + asia, research + china

FWIW, I have a strong quantitative social science background, study a unique region (Caucasus - Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia), have field experience, and have field experience doing more-or-less the kind of data collection and analysis that I'll need to do in my job. So basically I'm a weirdo.

I'm not sure what kind of methodological training you have, but it sounds like you have a shot possibly.
posted by k8t at 11:27 PM on November 7, 2010

Also there are often technical writing positions on USAJobs that involve summarizing research.
posted by k8t at 11:30 PM on November 7, 2010

Given what you hate about academia, I'd say forget about MBAs and the kind of jobs they typically lead to (consulting, finance, corp mgt). Those folks usually don't get to go home at 5 and forget about the job. Consultants also spend a lot of their lives on the road, and it sounds like you want a more settled life.

Govt and think tank jobs would probably suit you well if you can find one.

As for the "who cares" aspect... well that can apply in other fields that at first might seem more relevant. e.g. You could find yourself spending your life developing statistical models that add some fraction of a percent to the profits of the corp you work for, and thinking "who cares". Or spend your time analyzing some obscure aspect of welfare policy, only to see that your input makes hardly any difference and what actually gets done is determined by political considerations.

You might go at that from the other direction: "What things could I really care about? How can I get employed in one of those areas?"

If you can find a field that enthuses you, you have a very good story to tell. ("Smart, hardworking multi-skilled guy, wants to do something that actually matters.")
posted by philipy at 10:47 AM on November 8, 2010 [1 favorite]

Response by poster: philipy--thanks for your replies. they are incisive and help me figure out my own thinking. you're right about the "who cares" aspect--I hadn't thought of it that way.

as for finishing work at 5, what i have in mind is that when work is done, it's done. and you're right, i'm not sure if consulting is like that. my brother in law is an energy consultant, but he works ten hour days easily and another brother in law is pretty high up at GM. same thing, he works about 50 hours a week but weekends are off and when he's done, he's done for the day. in both of their cases, i've never seen them bring work home with them. that is what i find appealing about their work, i suppose, a clear definition of what is expected and when it's done, you know. this is unlike academia in the sense that I have to come up with interesting things to say about pre-modern history to publish. I'd rather just have a problem, figure out how to do it, do it, and then be done.

But you're right, I'm in a glass half-empty frame of mind.
posted by 630 at 5:00 PM on November 8, 2010

I can completely empathize. I was in a History PhD program at Georgetown, but decided not to go through it. You should really consider the government. They are just about the only employer that will give a high-level non-academic job to a PhD. Granted, the federal government is VERY tough to break into just by applying on USAJOBS (unless you're a veteran, a minority, or have a disability). I'm a disabled vet and graduated at the top of my West Point class, and it's still REALLY tough to get in.

The best in for you would be the Presidential Management Fellowship, which specifically tries to recruit PhDs for high-level government positions. I know quite a few people who did that route. There are also several other options if you're specifically interested in the Intelligence community (which I think would be perfect for you). The Defense Intelligence Agency has its own school that awards a professional masters http://www.dia.mil/college/. There is also the Boren fellowship if you want to go to China to work on fluency. Boren folks have just about guaranteed in's into the government.

Also consider the state department. They are the other agency that would really love to get their hands on you. They have their own analytical staff, and you could become a FSO.
posted by spmcbride1201 at 6:21 AM on November 11, 2010