I want to teach kids who want to learn

October 25, 2010 10:26 AM

Advice for getting a job teaching high school in a private school or a charter school? I am a un-credentialed scientist looking to start teaching math or science next fall.

I've read all about and considered various rapid-credentialing programs, like NYC teaching fellows and the various other fellows programs at under-performing schools. While I have not ruled this option out, research has led me to decide that I could very likely be putting myself in a situation that I and most could not handle. Basically I think that I'm not desperate enough / ready to go to war in these classrooms, sacrificing my to teach kids that for the most part do not want to learn. I recognize that this will be the case for many student in any high school, I fear going to one of these so-called "dropout factories" trying to teach teenagers who are still largely performing at elementary grade levels.

But, I still want to teach. I think I could be a great teacher.

Does anyone have advice on how I should go about seeking a position at a school (private or charter) that would not require me to have a traditional credential? I'm assuming that this job would not be quite as soul-sucking as working at an under-performing school and would likely not require as much devotion for similar results. Are jobs at high-performing schools available to someone like me (graduating with a master's in biophysics) in this job market?

Specifically, I interested in moving to an urban area on the East Coast, especially NYC.

Any general advice on getting a job teaching would also be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

posted by Candide to Work & Money (20 answers total)

Do you have any reason to think you'd be a good teacher? Do you have any teaching experience? Because I think that in general, high-performing schools do not hire people who have no idea what they're doing.
posted by craichead at 10:32 AM on October 25, 2010

Try getting in touch wtih with Carney Sandoe:

http://www.carneysandoe.com/

They place potential teachers in private/independent school jobs. You don't necessarily need the same credentials as you would for a public school position. I have never done business with them, but I have several friends who have and they have been pleased.

There are probably more services like this out there, this is just the one that I have some knowledge of.
posted by mccxxiii at 10:35 AM on October 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

I don't think NY has them, but here in VA and in at least a few other states that I know of there are Governor's Schools for highly motivated students; they're public schools that all the districts in the region pay into and send kids to, via a competitive application process. My son attends our area's gov-school for science/math and half of his teachers are from industry, without teaching backgrounds. They get certified on the job, and they are excellent, excellent teachers (I have one kid who is at the gov-school and one kid who is not, and it kills me to see how vastly different their public-school educations are). Teaching positions at schools like these are at least as competitive as student slots though.
posted by headnsouth at 10:35 AM on October 25, 2010

My ex (a Ph.D. in math, but without much teaching experience or an education degree) got a job through Carney and Sandoe, which is the US's biggest private-school employment agency.

I think that charter schools generally have their pick of credentialed teachers, especially in these tough economic times.

Something you could do to boost your employability right now would be tutoring or teaching as a volunteer. Pretty much every local school system needs tutors, and pretty much every prison system needs volunteer teachers.
posted by Sidhedevil at 10:36 AM on October 25, 2010

Apply as a substitute teacher. I am not credentialled in any form, but I got work as a sub in charter schools by interviewing with the principal. It was a great way to learn the ins and outs of the school system, though naturally the job has its own distinct drawbacks.
posted by hermitosis at 10:39 AM on October 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

A friend of mine went through something similar in the SF Bay Area. Advanced science degree, wanted to get into teaching but found the credentialing process for public education to be an extraordinarily high barrier.

This may only apply to the SF area, but whether you get public school credentials or not, you'll most likely have to prove yourself and build up your resume with relevant experience.

Expect to do the equivalent of an internship / postdoc / low status assistant work for a year or two just to get interviewed for teaching positions.

In my friend's case, they started by tutoring subjects to kids about the age that they wanted to teach full time. Then they applied to private schools, and it was hard going - the bad economy has hit both private and public schools hard.

Good luck. Education can be hard to break into, but it's a rewarding career too.
posted by zippy at 10:41 AM on October 25, 2010

Response by poster: Do you have any reason to think you'd be a good teacher?

I have been teaching an intro bio class at my university for the past year. Also, I am currently interning in a high school class and tutoring high school students in my spare time. My intuition tells me I am a good teacher. I'm good with people and I know how to make things make sense to them.
posted by Candide at 10:42 AM on October 25, 2010

You're in the same exact position I was 5 years ago- graduated from college with a Biochemistry degree, did the whole research thing, and my eyes about fell out of my head. I ended up coming very close to get a high school gig teaching chemistry/some other science because of a key aspect: private school. While they usually like you to have a teaching license, private schools aren't required to have teachers with one. I had two in high school without them. So it can definitely be done.

Now, I would follow the other suggestions of subbing. One of those unlicensed teachers I had got his job because of subbing (he taught physics and something else).

There are also search job boards, usually based on geographic location- this one for my area. You can also send your resume/CV to school principals on hopes of openings.
posted by jmd82 at 11:02 AM on October 25, 2010

There are some great posts about this in the Chronicle of Higher Education Leaving Academe forums which give lots of detail about the search process and what the private schools are looking for.
posted by statsgirl at 11:09 AM on October 25, 2010

Although you don't have the credentials, don't write off public schools too quickly. My wife got her degree in 2005 and taught history at a charter school for a year. She had a good year but as the school year ended, some shady dealings by the charter holder came to light and the school fell apart.

She got "stuck" teaching in a public school in a bad part of town (not NYC bad, but still a pretty poor, minority area). And she loves her students and the school. This year has been tough because they brought in a new principal and they don't exactly see eye-to-eye, but that could happen anywhere.

At least in Texas, charter and private school teachers earn far less than public school teachers, which is something to consider. You may find it worth your while to go through the cert process.
posted by Doohickie at 12:00 PM on October 25, 2010

Charter schools are generally funded by local school districts and teachers must be certified.

Teaching an intro biology class at a university is very different from teaching it to high school kids, whether in a private school or a public school.

Don't assume that kids in public schools don't want to learn, they've been taught by too many teachers who assume they don't want to or cannot learn.
posted by mareli at 12:29 PM on October 25, 2010

Response by poster: Teaching an intro biology class at a university is very different from teaching it to high school kids

Yes I realize this. Thank you.

Don't assume that kids in public schools don't want to learn

I'm just assuming that most of them don't want to learn. This, in turn, greatly increases the stress on the teacher while decreasing the learning done by students who are open to learning. I assume.

they've been taught by too many teachers who assume they don't want to or cannot learn.

This is precisely the problem, why most of them don't want to learn, right? In addition to coming from a background that doesn't value learning.
posted by Candide at 2:13 PM on October 25, 2010

I'm assuming that this job would not be quite as soul-sucking as working at an under-performing school and would likely not require as much devotion for similar results.

You get an "F -" for that assumption.

I think you should start by getting some subbing experience in a high school and requesting to sit in on classes when you are not subbing to observe teachers and how a classroom works.
posted by WeekendJen at 2:15 PM on October 25, 2010

Response by poster: I think you should start by getting some subbing experience in a high school and requesting to sit in on classes when you are not subbing to observe teachers and how a classroom works.

I am currently doing this. And I realize that this the most important thing that I could be doing.

ugh. You sound so uppity. Working with children isn't something you should do.

Apart from how I seem in a sentence on the internet, perhaps you could share some of your knowledge about teaching about what makes a good teacher. You know nothing about me and pardon me for resenting your comment. Perhaps, I don't spend very much time conversing on the internet, so I'm not so attuned to making self sound likable. To me, I'd rather concentrate on real life likability.

FYI, I am not writing off the entire swath of low-performing schools as though I am better than them. I am just trying to avoid many of the horror stories that I have read about as I choose my next step in life. Not that failure is an inevitability, just a likelihood. In fact, despite this post, teaching at a low-performing school is very likely in my future.
posted by Candide at 2:30 PM on October 25, 2010

Response by poster: I think you should start by getting some subbing experience in a high school and requesting to sit in on classes when you are not subbing to observe teachers and how a classroom works.

This is what I'm starting to think is the best idea.

Do you have any experience teaching at inner city schools that might inform my why my assumption is incorrect?
posted by Candide at 2:32 PM on October 25, 2010

I don't think that the majority of kids in public schools, even grossly underperforming public schools, don't want to learn.

I think it's hard for many kids to learn because a) they don't have any strong incentives to learn (there's a high correlation between school underperformance and local unemployment levels, and it's been demonstrated that it's unidirectional--when there is an influx of reliable employment in a neighborhood, school performance rises); b) there are so many confounding factors, from classroom overcrowding to poor nutrition to undiagnosed visual, hearing, and speech deficits to parents without strong educational preparation, that putting kids' issues with learning down to BOOTSTRAPS! is astonishingly reductive; c) the insistence that teachers teach to standardized tests alienates teachers and students alike; d) some teachers are jerks who have written them off in advance.

Look, if you want to teach in a private school, go for it. (Charter schools, BTW, have about the same spread of high/adequate/low performance as any other public school, taken as a whole--obviously there are some excellent charter schools, but there are also some excellent district schools. Are you confusing "magnet schools" and "charter schools," perhaps?) But don't trash-talk public schools or the folks who teach in them. It's just not cool.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:02 PM on October 25, 2010

If you want some citations, let me recommend the works of Jonathan Kozol, Geoffrey Canada, Alfie Kohn, Linda Darling Hammond, and Marcelo and Carola Suarez-Orozco as a good place to start.

Or if you want to hear from someone who started in the "Charter schools are awesome! Testing rules!" camp and changed her mind, read Diane Ravitch's The Death and Life of the Great American School System.
posted by Sidhedevil at 4:05 PM on October 25, 2010 [2 favorites]

I take real issue with your assumption that private schools necessarily have 'better' kids and make for a 'better' experience. Aside from the gross unfairness of writing off a vast swath of children as beneath your attention (which is imho the entirely wrong attitude for a teacher to have) I think that choosing a certain path because you perceive it is 'easier' is entirely the wrong attitude to bring into a new profession.

As well, a lot of people don't realize that private schools have their own special challenges. For example:

- Less pay, in many cases
- Admins who are reluctant to annoy fee-paying parents and don't always back you
- Fee-paying parents who think that this fee paying entitles them to tell you what to do

As for the idea that kids at private schools are 'better' somehow, don't hold your breath. My experience as a private school has been they have just as many problems, they just are better at hiding them. My principal once told me she would place bets on more than half the marriages at school being on the rocks. I once commented to a student whose father was coming to an interview that I had not seen him very often. The student replied 'I don't really either.' And we have a student who is in foster care and the school is paid for by a grandparent. You just can't assume that these kids are necessarily a certain way because that is so, so unfair to them and to the realities of life and the world.

If you want to be a teacher, be a teacher. But to say you want to be a teacher and only teach the 'good' kids is both naive and borderline offensive. Most parents do their best, no matter what kind of school their child attends. As a teacher, you would have an obligation to do YOUR best too, no matter what background you assume (perhaps incorrectly) that the child comes from.
posted by JoannaC at 7:34 PM on October 25, 2010 [1 favorite]

In my experience (granted this is from Pakistan, but I would imagine it applies to kids everywhere), the kids at the low-income public schools are MUCH more open to teachers who care about them than kids from expensive private schools. I tend to think this comes from their having less of a sense of entitlement vis a vis good teaching. Worth considering while you are making up your mind.
posted by bardophile at 5:10 AM on October 26, 2010

To build on what bardophile says: At an "expensive private school" or even a public school in a good neighborhood, the kids will generally be okay no matter what, because they and their parents are more likely to be engaged. If you want to really make a difference, connect with the kids at a low-income public school.
posted by Doohickie at 1:13 PM on October 26, 2010