Many hands make light work, hurt feelings.
October 21, 2010 7:22 PM Subscribe
Sort out a disagreement between roommates!
We are two guys in our twenties sharing a 2BR apartment. I own most of the pots and pans in the kitchen, and I take pride in them. They weren't cheap. I'm also more anal than my roommate: I like the pots clean, because I know that if I let grime and grease accumulate, I'll probably just despair of ever getting them clean and shiny again. I've explained this to my roommate, and he found it humorous.
I make one-pot meals that need a minimum of cleaning up. My roommate likes large, messy dinners that require multiple pots (a saute pan for frying one thing, a sauce pan for heating another thing, a pasta pot for a third thing, etc.). From time to time, I'll find one of my sparkling, stainless steel pots in the drying rack with food residue that remained after my roommate's perfunctory cleaning: a dried trail of liquid, some charred spatter, a greasy smudge.
I will take that pot and wash it more thoroughly, with a stiff brush and dish soap. I do this discreetly. I don't make a point of it. I don't say anything to the effect of, "You filthy pig, why do I have to wash my own pots after you've used them?" I don't think that either. I just see a pot that's less than clean, and I make it clean.
My roommate finds this offensive. He sulks and gets upset.
I could rationalize this in a passive-aggressive way and think to myself, "Hey, Me, you can try to not hurt your roommate's feelings and just let the pots gradually get filthier and filthier, or you can just go on doing what you think is right."
But perhaps I'm wrong. I have very limited interpersonal skills, so maybe I just can't understand what's going on. Help.
We are two guys in our twenties sharing a 2BR apartment. I own most of the pots and pans in the kitchen, and I take pride in them. They weren't cheap. I'm also more anal than my roommate: I like the pots clean, because I know that if I let grime and grease accumulate, I'll probably just despair of ever getting them clean and shiny again. I've explained this to my roommate, and he found it humorous.
I make one-pot meals that need a minimum of cleaning up. My roommate likes large, messy dinners that require multiple pots (a saute pan for frying one thing, a sauce pan for heating another thing, a pasta pot for a third thing, etc.). From time to time, I'll find one of my sparkling, stainless steel pots in the drying rack with food residue that remained after my roommate's perfunctory cleaning: a dried trail of liquid, some charred spatter, a greasy smudge.
I will take that pot and wash it more thoroughly, with a stiff brush and dish soap. I do this discreetly. I don't make a point of it. I don't say anything to the effect of, "You filthy pig, why do I have to wash my own pots after you've used them?" I don't think that either. I just see a pot that's less than clean, and I make it clean.
My roommate finds this offensive. He sulks and gets upset.
I could rationalize this in a passive-aggressive way and think to myself, "Hey, Me, you can try to not hurt your roommate's feelings and just let the pots gradually get filthier and filthier, or you can just go on doing what you think is right."
But perhaps I'm wrong. I have very limited interpersonal skills, so maybe I just can't understand what's going on. Help.
How often is from time to time? Daily, weekly, monthly?
Assuming it's more often than monthly, your roommate is being a jerk. Keep your pots in your room, let him buy his own cheap pots to ruin, and don't use his pots.
posted by jeather at 7:27 PM on October 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Assuming it's more often than monthly, your roommate is being a jerk. Keep your pots in your room, let him buy his own cheap pots to ruin, and don't use his pots.
posted by jeather at 7:27 PM on October 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
I can see why he would be offended by the implied insult to his cleaning skills, but really, he should just buy his own cookware. You're allowed to have your own standards for your cookware, especially if you're not berating him for not having the same standards when using your stuff.
If you want to be especially kind, and having separate cookware would be unreasonable, tell him that you've noticed that he sometimes seem upset by your rewashing some of your pots when he's used them. Tell him that it's not him, it's your own "slightly crazy" standards for your cookware, and you're totally ok with his using it, and you hope he won't take offense at your rewashing to meet those highly personalized standards. That way it makes it about you, and not him.
posted by ldthomps at 7:29 PM on October 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
If you want to be especially kind, and having separate cookware would be unreasonable, tell him that you've noticed that he sometimes seem upset by your rewashing some of your pots when he's used them. Tell him that it's not him, it's your own "slightly crazy" standards for your cookware, and you're totally ok with his using it, and you hope he won't take offense at your rewashing to meet those highly personalized standards. That way it makes it about you, and not him.
posted by ldthomps at 7:29 PM on October 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
There's nothing wrong with your behavior. You have nice things and you want them to stay that way. Your roommate is an insensitive jerk. This type of person rarely changes, in my experience. You might want to:
-- move out
-- reduce or entirely eliminate the selection of pots and pans available to him
-- run out to Target and get him a cheap set of pots and pans for his own use
-- tell him to run out to Target and get a cheap set of pots and pans
-- get a different roommate
posted by BlahLaLa at 7:29 PM on October 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
-- move out
-- reduce or entirely eliminate the selection of pots and pans available to him
-- run out to Target and get him a cheap set of pots and pans for his own use
-- tell him to run out to Target and get a cheap set of pots and pans
-- get a different roommate
posted by BlahLaLa at 7:29 PM on October 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Probably the best thing to do is say to him, "Look, you know I'm anal about my pans. When I think one isn't clean enough, would you rather I just clean it, or would you rather I let you know so you can re-clean it?"
But I gotta tell you, this is about the most frustrating interpersonal conflict in the universe and seriously was probably the biggest ongoing problem in my first couple years of marriage! I was you, my husband was your roommate. Couldn't make a meal without using every pot in the house, and would just let them SIT and get crusty and gross, while I cleaned as I went ... it was maddening. If it helps, our eventual compromise is that HE DOESN'T TOUCH MY BAKEWARE if he wants to live to see another sunrise, and I have a couple of "special" pots & pans that he knows I take particular care of that he either cleans very carefully or doesn't use. The rest of the pots I just suck it up and deal with the fact that he doesn't take very good care of them and it's not worth arguing about. (And about half the time I clean the pot myself and about half the time I tell him the pots aren't clean, could he take a look?)
But, you know, we're married, so we both have a financial stake in the pots. :)
And I am still super-miffed that one of my ex-roommates took one of my 9" round baking pans when she moved out. WHO DOES THAT? WHO TAKES ONLY ONE???? I have had far crazier and more annoying roommates, but she's the one I'll be mad at until the end of time.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:32 PM on October 21, 2010 [7 favorites]
But I gotta tell you, this is about the most frustrating interpersonal conflict in the universe and seriously was probably the biggest ongoing problem in my first couple years of marriage! I was you, my husband was your roommate. Couldn't make a meal without using every pot in the house, and would just let them SIT and get crusty and gross, while I cleaned as I went ... it was maddening. If it helps, our eventual compromise is that HE DOESN'T TOUCH MY BAKEWARE if he wants to live to see another sunrise, and I have a couple of "special" pots & pans that he knows I take particular care of that he either cleans very carefully or doesn't use. The rest of the pots I just suck it up and deal with the fact that he doesn't take very good care of them and it's not worth arguing about. (And about half the time I clean the pot myself and about half the time I tell him the pots aren't clean, could he take a look?)
But, you know, we're married, so we both have a financial stake in the pots. :)
And I am still super-miffed that one of my ex-roommates took one of my 9" round baking pans when she moved out. WHO DOES THAT? WHO TAKES ONLY ONE???? I have had far crazier and more annoying roommates, but she's the one I'll be mad at until the end of time.
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 7:32 PM on October 21, 2010 [7 favorites]
Don't let your roommate use your pots.
posted by k8t at 7:38 PM on October 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by k8t at 7:38 PM on October 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
Short version: Your roommate is going to have to suck it up, but being nice to him about it will help smooth things over.
If you're willing to put in the effort to keep the pots to your standard of cleanliness, and can do so without it being pointed, then you should go ahead.
That said, I can understand why your roommate is feeling slighted -- I've been in a similar situation with my husband, who doesn't always attack the grease with as much vigor as I would, and feels foolish when he sees me washing dishes he thought were clean. In your case, it might help to talk to your roommate about it, and stress that this is just your way of dealing with your own neurosis. Tell him that you understand your desired level of cleanliness is too much to expect from anyone else and that you're not suggesting he's a shitty dishwasher -- just that you're kind of crazy about dishes, above and beyond the call, and doing them over again is just your way of managing that, and you appreciate his being understanding of your quirks.
(Incidentally, I actually lie much closer to your end of the dish spectrum, and don't mean to suggest you're being unreasonable. Suggested roommate discussion points should not be taken as commentary on your dish-cleaning standards)
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:40 PM on October 21, 2010
If you're willing to put in the effort to keep the pots to your standard of cleanliness, and can do so without it being pointed, then you should go ahead.
That said, I can understand why your roommate is feeling slighted -- I've been in a similar situation with my husband, who doesn't always attack the grease with as much vigor as I would, and feels foolish when he sees me washing dishes he thought were clean. In your case, it might help to talk to your roommate about it, and stress that this is just your way of dealing with your own neurosis. Tell him that you understand your desired level of cleanliness is too much to expect from anyone else and that you're not suggesting he's a shitty dishwasher -- just that you're kind of crazy about dishes, above and beyond the call, and doing them over again is just your way of managing that, and you appreciate his being understanding of your quirks.
(Incidentally, I actually lie much closer to your end of the dish spectrum, and don't mean to suggest you're being unreasonable. Suggested roommate discussion points should not be taken as commentary on your dish-cleaning standards)
posted by Narrative Priorities at 7:40 PM on October 21, 2010
Sharing your GOOD pots and pans with someone that doesn't care about them is a set up for trouble.
Pack 'em up, take them to your parents house, and buy a cheap set for the apartment.
posted by HuronBob at 7:43 PM on October 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
Pack 'em up, take them to your parents house, and buy a cheap set for the apartment.
posted by HuronBob at 7:43 PM on October 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
He washes the dishes he uses, that's the best you can hope for. Ask him not to use your pots and pans.
posted by Sufi at 7:48 PM on October 21, 2010
posted by Sufi at 7:48 PM on October 21, 2010
Nomyte, I can totally sympathize. To nth the suggestion given above -- just go out and get a cheaper set of pots & pans for sharing use, if that's feasible.
posted by contessa at 7:51 PM on October 21, 2010
posted by contessa at 7:51 PM on October 21, 2010
I used to be your roommate. He's a slob and you're a wimp. You should absolutely be calling him a filthy pig, this isn't a question of comparative value systems. "Clean is clean, motherfucker. Grow your ass up or I'm locking them away so you can't use them anymore." Something tells me this wouldn't actually comport with your personality, but you get the idea. You don't have to make it like you want a divorce, it's just basic lifeskills and some people had lame parentage in that regard.
He's probably sulking because you're giving the whole situation the silent treatment, yet here you are discussing it with a dozen of your other friends. He's dirty, not stupid.
posted by rhizome at 7:59 PM on October 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
He's probably sulking because you're giving the whole situation the silent treatment, yet here you are discussing it with a dozen of your other friends. He's dirty, not stupid.
posted by rhizome at 7:59 PM on October 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
He probably thinks you're being passive aggressive. To his mind, he's trying to be respectful of your expressed wishes to have your pots cleaned, and maybe is cleaning your stuff more quickly or thoroughly, even, than he would otherwise, and feels like you're swooping in afterward to make a point about what an inadequate job he did.
People just genuinely have different standards for what's clean and what isn't, sometimes.
If you really mean this: I don't say anything to the effect of, "You filthy pig, why do I have to wash my own pots after you've used them?" I don't think that either. I just see a pot that's less than clean, and I make it clean.
...then maybe you can try to explain this to your roommate, while putting the blame on yourself -- say, "You're cleaning the pots to a 'reasonable person' standard, but I'm a little bit unreasonable, and I know that, which is why I don't mind scrubbing the stuff a second time, and why I don't ask you to do it."
I do wonder whether you're a little more miffed about him not adequately cleaning your stuff than you're admitting, though.
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 7:59 PM on October 21, 2010 [9 favorites]
People just genuinely have different standards for what's clean and what isn't, sometimes.
If you really mean this: I don't say anything to the effect of, "You filthy pig, why do I have to wash my own pots after you've used them?" I don't think that either. I just see a pot that's less than clean, and I make it clean.
...then maybe you can try to explain this to your roommate, while putting the blame on yourself -- say, "You're cleaning the pots to a 'reasonable person' standard, but I'm a little bit unreasonable, and I know that, which is why I don't mind scrubbing the stuff a second time, and why I don't ask you to do it."
I do wonder whether you're a little more miffed about him not adequately cleaning your stuff than you're admitting, though.
posted by dixiecupdrinking at 7:59 PM on October 21, 2010 [9 favorites]
Narrative Priorities: "Tell him that you understand your desired level of cleanliness is too much to expect from anyone else and that you're not suggesting he's a shitty dishwasher -- just that you're kind of crazy about dishes, above and beyond the call, and doing them over again is just your way of managing that, and you appreciate his being understanding of your quirks."
This, exactly.
I have a friend who, when I was at her house, got a cup and poured myself some water, only to find a large *something* floating in it. She dumped it for me and got a fresh cup, only to find a piece of chocolate in it... (the chocolate had fallen from the highest shelf into the icemaker, shattered, and come out with the ice). She told me next time I get a cup out of the cupboard, to check it first. Several months later, she apparently had forgotten that and noticed me look (not stare, not hold up and examine, just look) into a glass I pulled out, and her feelings got hurt. I just fibbed and told her it was a habit and I checked my own glasses at home too.
The weird thing is I loaned her a crock-pot for a baby shower, and she found it too dirty (charred spatter) and said to just take it home. I cleaned it on the spot and then she was happy to have it.
posted by IndigoRain at 8:04 PM on October 21, 2010
This, exactly.
I have a friend who, when I was at her house, got a cup and poured myself some water, only to find a large *something* floating in it. She dumped it for me and got a fresh cup, only to find a piece of chocolate in it... (the chocolate had fallen from the highest shelf into the icemaker, shattered, and come out with the ice). She told me next time I get a cup out of the cupboard, to check it first. Several months later, she apparently had forgotten that and noticed me look (not stare, not hold up and examine, just look) into a glass I pulled out, and her feelings got hurt. I just fibbed and told her it was a habit and I checked my own glasses at home too.
The weird thing is I loaned her a crock-pot for a baby shower, and she found it too dirty (charred spatter) and said to just take it home. I cleaned it on the spot and then she was happy to have it.
posted by IndigoRain at 8:04 PM on October 21, 2010
In a similar situation, I had guests here for a week and just re-washed everything in the cupboard because, even though they allegedly cleaned up after themselves, it was all too dirty/greasy for me to eat off those dishes and cook in those pots. I have no shame in the fact that hide my good knives when i think there's a *chance* that someone might use them. I even lock up my fancy salts.
You should keep your stuff separate, and let your roommate mess up his own stuff. If he's disrespecting your stuff by not keeping it as clean as you'd like it, then gets whiny about your re-washing it, (which is a little bit passive-aggressive maybe?) that isn't your problem. Others have said "at least he's sort-of washing them" but i think that's even worse... you go to pick up something to use and it's disgusting. GAG!
posted by ChefJoAnna at 8:04 PM on October 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
You should keep your stuff separate, and let your roommate mess up his own stuff. If he's disrespecting your stuff by not keeping it as clean as you'd like it, then gets whiny about your re-washing it, (which is a little bit passive-aggressive maybe?) that isn't your problem. Others have said "at least he's sort-of washing them" but i think that's even worse... you go to pick up something to use and it's disgusting. GAG!
posted by ChefJoAnna at 8:04 PM on October 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
When I was away at the uni living in student housing, we had a common kitchen, and the problem was much more difficult, i.e. international students from different cultures, with a ratio of 10 rooms to only 1 kitchen. I bought disposable paper plates, plastic knives + forks, super cheap pot and never used anyone's stuff. That way I never got involved in the numerous kitchen disputes. Of course, I mostly ate out. My advice: pack away your good stuff. Go to 99 cents store, buy a set of super cheap cookware for like $15 max, and throw them into the kitchen. Problem solved. Believe me, it's worth more than the $15 not to have to deal with the stress.
posted by VikingSword at 8:04 PM on October 21, 2010
posted by VikingSword at 8:04 PM on October 21, 2010
Your roommate is being a drama queen. My former roommate was like that about dishes and cookware. These are your things - if he's using them, he should clean them in a timely manner and clean them well. Getting sulky that you're cleaning up after his mess, using your things, is childish and absurd. Tell him to get his own set of kitchen things if it continues to upset him. I would be gentle and straightforward, but firm. I was quite and too nice when it came to my former roommate, and it wasn't good for either of us. Better to establish boundaries like this early on in roommate relationships. FWIW, I don't think it's petty. When one uses someone else's things, it's reasonable that you expect said things to be taken care of.
posted by raztaj at 8:10 PM on October 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by raztaj at 8:10 PM on October 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
"Hey, don't you think I clean your pots good enough? What am I, chopped liver?"
"Dude?!! I did not ask you to rewash these, though your original job was crap and I like these pots. Shut the fuck up and take a teaspoon of concrete. You do not need to take offense at the way I take care of my possessions. Seriously!"
Open, honest, forthright. If he sulks, call him on it.
"I love your cooking, man, but do you need throw a tantie every time I wash my pots? It really is not about you and more about how I want to preserve my cookware. "
Um, dare I say it? Rinse and repeat.
posted by b33j at 8:11 PM on October 21, 2010
"Dude?!! I did not ask you to rewash these, though your original job was crap and I like these pots. Shut the fuck up and take a teaspoon of concrete. You do not need to take offense at the way I take care of my possessions. Seriously!"
Open, honest, forthright. If he sulks, call him on it.
"I love your cooking, man, but do you need throw a tantie every time I wash my pots? It really is not about you and more about how I want to preserve my cookware. "
Um, dare I say it? Rinse and repeat.
posted by b33j at 8:11 PM on October 21, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks to everyone! I have something to think about now.
posted by Nomyte at 8:18 PM on October 21, 2010
posted by Nomyte at 8:18 PM on October 21, 2010
I don't care if I lived with Emril himself, NO ONE touches my Calphalon skillet unless I say so and god help you it better be spotless and I will CUT YOU if you even think about using a metal spoon in it.
This is why there are separate sets of pans in my house.
posted by slow graffiti at 8:37 PM on October 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
This is why there are separate sets of pans in my house.
posted by slow graffiti at 8:37 PM on October 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
"This is why there are separate sets of pans in my house."
I once knew a very sweet elderly women who had her husband build a second kitchen in their house...
Sometimes we need our own space and things!
posted by HuronBob at 8:56 PM on October 21, 2010
I once knew a very sweet elderly women who had her husband build a second kitchen in their house...
Sometimes we need our own space and things!
posted by HuronBob at 8:56 PM on October 21, 2010
Say something, but say it nicely! I would absolutely think you were being passive aggressive if you just started rewashing stuff right in front of me without a word. However, if you picked up the dish and made fun of me for my less than rigid definition of "clean", I'd probably feel a bit embarrassed and pay a little more attention to what I was doing next time.
Silent battles are absolutely no good in co-living situations. You are too free to imagine what the other person is thinking. You may just want clean pans and he may think you are trying to be all territorial of what he considers to be shared supplies. You may think he is being disrespectful of your possessions and he may just be of the school of thought that overly scrubbing pans scratches them up. In many cases you may think that you are avoiding conflict when, in fact, the lack of talking about the issue is feeding into the tension and awkwardness.
posted by troublewithwolves at 9:13 PM on October 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
Silent battles are absolutely no good in co-living situations. You are too free to imagine what the other person is thinking. You may just want clean pans and he may think you are trying to be all territorial of what he considers to be shared supplies. You may think he is being disrespectful of your possessions and he may just be of the school of thought that overly scrubbing pans scratches them up. In many cases you may think that you are avoiding conflict when, in fact, the lack of talking about the issue is feeding into the tension and awkwardness.
posted by troublewithwolves at 9:13 PM on October 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
Put your pots in a glory box and go and get some cheaper ones
posted by the noob at 9:44 PM on October 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by the noob at 9:44 PM on October 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Jeez, just be honest and friendly. Next time when you're both in the kitchen and you notice a dirty pot he supposedly "cleaned," pick it up, point to the food crap on it, smile and say, "hey, can you see this? Not a major crisis or anything, but if you could try to do a better job cleaning when you use my stuff, that'd be great. And hey, don't get offended if I clean off dried food on the pots when I see it, ok?" Then ask if he's hungry and wants some of what you're making or change the subject to something else.
I know it can be tough to bring this stuff up, but really you should *always* start with calm, simple, clear, basic verbal communication. Keep other solutions in your pocket as back-up, sure, but escalating to a move like buying new pots without first attempting to express your concern to your roommate in polite language isn't the most mature route by a long shot.
posted by mediareport at 10:05 PM on October 21, 2010
I know it can be tough to bring this stuff up, but really you should *always* start with calm, simple, clear, basic verbal communication. Keep other solutions in your pocket as back-up, sure, but escalating to a move like buying new pots without first attempting to express your concern to your roommate in polite language isn't the most mature route by a long shot.
posted by mediareport at 10:05 PM on October 21, 2010
Whatever solution you come to, I don't think it should involve you depriving yourself of your nice pots to satisfy your roommate's sensitivities. Yes, living with others sometimes requires compromise, but I don't think this is one of those times. Live life in the present and enjoy your stuff.
posted by funkiwan at 12:37 AM on October 22, 2010
posted by funkiwan at 12:37 AM on October 22, 2010
If the way you described the situation is emotionally honest (are you sure you aren't giving him an evil eye whenever his back is turned?) I think you're handling it fine. The neuroses line might help. There is less than no point starting a fight on this, he is not nine years old and you are not his father.
posted by SMPA at 4:08 AM on October 22, 2010
posted by SMPA at 4:08 AM on October 22, 2010
Yeah, there's going to be a difference between what's "right" or "fair", and what's going to make your living situation not suck. Some people are sensitive. Some people suck at cleaning. You're living with one. Maybe his threshold for dirty is different for yours. Mine is a lot higher than other people.
Anyhow, it's really never a good idea to fight a battle like this with a roommate, you'll always lose. In my extensive roommate experience, it's best to defer and deflect. Clean the 'dirty' pots when they piss you off, and get on with your life. You'll both be happier people. Then move out at the end of your lease and ever live with anyone ever again.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 4:48 AM on October 22, 2010
Anyhow, it's really never a good idea to fight a battle like this with a roommate, you'll always lose. In my extensive roommate experience, it's best to defer and deflect. Clean the 'dirty' pots when they piss you off, and get on with your life. You'll both be happier people. Then move out at the end of your lease and ever live with anyone ever again.
posted by Geckwoistmeinauto at 4:48 AM on October 22, 2010
Been there. You have to decide whether you're willing to put up with feeling your generosity in letting him use your stuff is being abused. If you do (and I certainly would), you need to have a talk, and the talk goes like this.
"Dude, I know I'm really anal about cleaning up my pots. I admit it. When I clean them some more after you've used them, that's me being anal. But, see, they're my pots, I paid a lot of money for them and so I care about them. They matter to me. And I like to be anal about getting them really clean. I'm happy to let you use them, but if you do all I'm asking is that you indulge me by really cleaning them up thoroughly. If you don't want to do this you're going to have to get your own pots."
The only alternative to having this conversation is to keep putting up with the situation as is, I'm afraid.
posted by Decani at 5:12 AM on October 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
"Dude, I know I'm really anal about cleaning up my pots. I admit it. When I clean them some more after you've used them, that's me being anal. But, see, they're my pots, I paid a lot of money for them and so I care about them. They matter to me. And I like to be anal about getting them really clean. I'm happy to let you use them, but if you do all I'm asking is that you indulge me by really cleaning them up thoroughly. If you don't want to do this you're going to have to get your own pots."
The only alternative to having this conversation is to keep putting up with the situation as is, I'm afraid.
posted by Decani at 5:12 AM on October 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
A word in your roommate's defense: having someone go after me and silently re-clean something I've already cleaned definitely makes me feel insulted and judged. My mom does this when she visits and I hate, hate, hate it. Get it out in the open, talking about it and agreeing that you just have different standards - not that one of you is right and one is wrong - is the right way to start. Since they're your pots, you have a right to insist that your standards apply to them. I like the way Decani said it.
posted by evilmomlady at 5:36 AM on October 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by evilmomlady at 5:36 AM on October 22, 2010 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure why so many people are encouraging Nomyte to use the white lie that it's "really anal" behavior to not want to see dried bits of crusty food on dishes that have supposedly been cleaned. Nomyte: it's not anal to want dishes to not have dried bits of old food on them. Honest. I think it's great you've been going out of your way to discreetly clean up after your roommate, but you're not responsible for his absurd over-reaction, and you shouldn't have to claim some weird cleaning anality that isn't there in order to get him to respect the most basic roommate dishwashing responsibility: get the fucking food bits off the fucking dishes.
Try the simple, honest approach. It really works.
posted by mediareport at 5:37 AM on October 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
Try the simple, honest approach. It really works.
posted by mediareport at 5:37 AM on October 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
A basic standard of borrowing something is to return it like you found it. A basic standard of "washing dishes" is to make sure they're clean, hygienic, and ready to use again.
Your behavior is a tad passive-aggressive, but unless you do this with all the dishes in the house, I'd think the point would be clear. (And if you do have to rewash all the dishes in the house, you really need to say something about his apparent inability to do dishes.)
Getting a separate set of pots for him (or him getting them) would be ideal, but you'd definitively need to explain to him the situation, or it would end up being very passive aggressive.
posted by wending my way at 7:33 AM on October 22, 2010
Your behavior is a tad passive-aggressive, but unless you do this with all the dishes in the house, I'd think the point would be clear. (And if you do have to rewash all the dishes in the house, you really need to say something about his apparent inability to do dishes.)
Getting a separate set of pots for him (or him getting them) would be ideal, but you'd definitively need to explain to him the situation, or it would end up being very passive aggressive.
posted by wending my way at 7:33 AM on October 22, 2010
Jeez, they're just pots. Not worth the stress. Take the advice upthread and get some 'general use' pots if they bother you that much, and keep the good stuff to yourself.
Speak to the guy. I'm dyspraxic, and so my washing-up sucks. I do get embarrassed if this is pointed out - I live in a flat now where there are nice pots, and I've learnt to keep them clean and use the special circulon brush, but occasionally I miss things and don't realise until I get the pan out again. Having a clean kitchen leaves me more motivated to keep everything clean - it helps me remember to clean as I go and leave it as I found it.
posted by mippy at 8:07 AM on October 22, 2010
Speak to the guy. I'm dyspraxic, and so my washing-up sucks. I do get embarrassed if this is pointed out - I live in a flat now where there are nice pots, and I've learnt to keep them clean and use the special circulon brush, but occasionally I miss things and don't realise until I get the pan out again. Having a clean kitchen leaves me more motivated to keep everything clean - it helps me remember to clean as I go and leave it as I found it.
posted by mippy at 8:07 AM on October 22, 2010
I'm pretty uptight about kitchen cleanliness, and I think your concerns are reasonable.
However,
There is also a limit to how long you can bear the silent pot re-washing, even if you think it's totally fine right now. If you keep this up you will eventually unload a crazy pent-up rage at this guy. Then he'll get defensive and hostile, and you'll be in the position of being defensive over some pots which you don't really care enough about to start WW3 over. But by then its too late, and you're in a combat zone. Your next skirmish will be over something even stupider, like who bought toilet paper last.
Passive aggressiveness spells roommate doom.
Just tell him you don't like the way he washed your pots. Frame it like you're the unreasonable obsessive pot person, you're the one with the problem, you don't think you can change it, and you'll hope he understands and can accommodate you.
"Hey X, I just wanted to talk to you about the kitchen stuff. See, I don't know why, but I'm pretty uptight about my pots and pans. I donno, maybe something my parents instilled in me. Anyways I'm a bit anal about keeping them clean, like unreasonably clean. Its just a quirk of mine I guess, so I hope you can help keep me from freaking out about it. What do you think?"
Hopefully he'll offer a few suggestions, like getting pots of his own.
posted by fontophilic at 8:55 AM on October 22, 2010
However,
There is also a limit to how long you can bear the silent pot re-washing, even if you think it's totally fine right now. If you keep this up you will eventually unload a crazy pent-up rage at this guy. Then he'll get defensive and hostile, and you'll be in the position of being defensive over some pots which you don't really care enough about to start WW3 over. But by then its too late, and you're in a combat zone. Your next skirmish will be over something even stupider, like who bought toilet paper last.
Passive aggressiveness spells roommate doom.
Just tell him you don't like the way he washed your pots. Frame it like you're the unreasonable obsessive pot person, you're the one with the problem, you don't think you can change it, and you'll hope he understands and can accommodate you.
"Hey X, I just wanted to talk to you about the kitchen stuff. See, I don't know why, but I'm pretty uptight about my pots and pans. I donno, maybe something my parents instilled in me. Anyways I'm a bit anal about keeping them clean, like unreasonably clean. Its just a quirk of mine I guess, so I hope you can help keep me from freaking out about it. What do you think?"
Hopefully he'll offer a few suggestions, like getting pots of his own.
posted by fontophilic at 8:55 AM on October 22, 2010
I don't think you need to tell your roommate that you only want your pots and pans cleaned thoroughly because you're some sort of cleanliness nut, or to be all apologetic for wanting your own dishes to be clean. Who the hell wants crusty old food, especially someone else's food, leftover on their pots and pans? It would be one thing if you were cleaning his pans because he left them all dirty, but they're your pans!
Here's what I would do: next time he gets all sulky about your silently cleaning your own damn pots and pans, say, "What? There was food on them." I'm guessing he just doesn't notice when things he's supposedly cleaned are left dirty or greasy, so I'm not sure if you'd have any luck if you actually try to get him to clean them better himself. Which leaves you with the option of consistently cleaning up after him or buying him some cheapo pans as a holiday gift. I'm guessing that if you just started keeping the nice pots and pans in your room and left him to buy his own dishes, he'd sulk about that too.
posted by wondermouse at 10:17 AM on October 22, 2010
Here's what I would do: next time he gets all sulky about your silently cleaning your own damn pots and pans, say, "What? There was food on them." I'm guessing he just doesn't notice when things he's supposedly cleaned are left dirty or greasy, so I'm not sure if you'd have any luck if you actually try to get him to clean them better himself. Which leaves you with the option of consistently cleaning up after him or buying him some cheapo pans as a holiday gift. I'm guessing that if you just started keeping the nice pots and pans in your room and left him to buy his own dishes, he'd sulk about that too.
posted by wondermouse at 10:17 AM on October 22, 2010
I, for one, think that your roommate is in the wrong. It's one thing if you're OCD about clean pots. But from the way you describe it, it sounds like the roommate doesn't actually know what clean looks like.
I think you're going to have to lay down the law. If you're living with a roommate, Hostel Rules need to apply all the time - "Leave it better than you found it."
posted by Citrus at 10:57 AM on October 22, 2010
I think you're going to have to lay down the law. If you're living with a roommate, Hostel Rules need to apply all the time - "Leave it better than you found it."
posted by Citrus at 10:57 AM on October 22, 2010
I like the pots clean, because I know that if I let grime and grease accumulate, I'll probably just despair of ever getting them clean and shiny again. I've explained this to my roommate, and he found it humorous.
Oh yeah, and with this in mind, I don't think you've failed in communicating your feelings to him at all, and I don't think you've been passive aggressive about it. It seems that you attempted directness, and he just didn't take it seriously. So you've been doing what you need to do to take care of your stuff, and he gets upset about it.
If you try talking to him about it once more - stating, upon seeing that he is sulking while you wash the dishes, that you cleaned it because you saw some grease/food on it - and he still 1) Can't manage to clean the dishes thoroughly himself, and 2) Continues to get upset when you clean up after him (or you just get sick of rewashing everything), then it's fair to let him know that you'd rather not share those particular pots and pans anymore. Whether that means you buy cheap ones yourself or if he's actually willing to buy his own totally depends on what his attitude about it is going to be.
posted by wondermouse at 11:36 AM on October 22, 2010
Oh yeah, and with this in mind, I don't think you've failed in communicating your feelings to him at all, and I don't think you've been passive aggressive about it. It seems that you attempted directness, and he just didn't take it seriously. So you've been doing what you need to do to take care of your stuff, and he gets upset about it.
If you try talking to him about it once more - stating, upon seeing that he is sulking while you wash the dishes, that you cleaned it because you saw some grease/food on it - and he still 1) Can't manage to clean the dishes thoroughly himself, and 2) Continues to get upset when you clean up after him (or you just get sick of rewashing everything), then it's fair to let him know that you'd rather not share those particular pots and pans anymore. Whether that means you buy cheap ones yourself or if he's actually willing to buy his own totally depends on what his attitude about it is going to be.
posted by wondermouse at 11:36 AM on October 22, 2010
your pots, your rules.
i think in this situation separate cookware is warranted, and would pretty much solve the problem.
posted by custard heart at 12:25 PM on October 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
i think in this situation separate cookware is warranted, and would pretty much solve the problem.
posted by custard heart at 12:25 PM on October 22, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think the OP is a nut for not wanting crusty food on his pots. I think it could be a good idea to float this white lie for the sake of roommate politics. I could see some "Oh you think I can't wash a pot? What about the laundry thats been in the dryer for 3 days?" tit for tat shit developing.
No one is perfect or a perfect roommate. The best roommates are accommodating of other people's idiosyncrasies. Either OP needs to hold dish washing lessons, or learn to talk about the roommate's half assed washing job in a way that won't escalate or sulking/passive aggressive fester in the future. It sounds like the roomie is already a bit of a whiny sulking type, so "letting" the roomie help you with your "problem" will probably be easier than trying to criticize them or "punish" him by making him buy new pots.
posted by fontophilic at 12:27 PM on October 22, 2010
No one is perfect or a perfect roommate. The best roommates are accommodating of other people's idiosyncrasies. Either OP needs to hold dish washing lessons, or learn to talk about the roommate's half assed washing job in a way that won't escalate or sulking/passive aggressive fester in the future. It sounds like the roomie is already a bit of a whiny sulking type, so "letting" the roomie help you with your "problem" will probably be easier than trying to criticize them or "punish" him by making him buy new pots.
posted by fontophilic at 12:27 PM on October 22, 2010
It's not being "anal" or unreasonable to want supposedly-clean dishes to not have dried and crusted food residue on them. That's the definition of "clean dishes".
You're not being a control freak and policing how he washes the dishes — if you were standing over him saying "don't use that sponge, use this one, and you need the water 5 degrees hotter" you'd be out of line. But setting standards for what is and is not considered acceptably clean is completely reasonable: "'Clean' means that a dish has no residue of food, liquid, or soap on it; it has been rinsed cleanly and dried" or whatever standard you can agree on.
posted by Lexica at 1:57 PM on October 22, 2010
You're not being a control freak and policing how he washes the dishes — if you were standing over him saying "don't use that sponge, use this one, and you need the water 5 degrees hotter" you'd be out of line. But setting standards for what is and is not considered acceptably clean is completely reasonable: "'Clean' means that a dish has no residue of food, liquid, or soap on it; it has been rinsed cleanly and dried" or whatever standard you can agree on.
posted by Lexica at 1:57 PM on October 22, 2010
Here in the UK you can buy a set of three pots from one of the major supermarket chains for about £9 (which is about $14). They won't win any awards, but they are cheap and they do the job just fine. In fact, I had a set for about a year.
I'd just buy him one of those sets and then say "sorry mate, but I'm really anal about the cleanliness of these pots so I've got you some that you can use yourself. I thought you'd prefer it that way".
Having said that, you're perfectly entitled to flip out and have a go at him about the shoddy way he cleans the pots. In fact, you'll be doing him a favour because if you don't, whatever girlfriend he moves in with, will invariably do it at some point.
posted by mr_silver at 2:36 PM on October 22, 2010
I'd just buy him one of those sets and then say "sorry mate, but I'm really anal about the cleanliness of these pots so I've got you some that you can use yourself. I thought you'd prefer it that way".
Having said that, you're perfectly entitled to flip out and have a go at him about the shoddy way he cleans the pots. In fact, you'll be doing him a favour because if you don't, whatever girlfriend he moves in with, will invariably do it at some point.
posted by mr_silver at 2:36 PM on October 22, 2010
Let him know that you're sorry your anal nature makes him sad, so you'll compromise: he can do whatever he wants to his pots, and you'll clean the fuck out of yours. If you have a person -- any person, not just roommates -- who doesn't respect your things, the easiest solution by far is to not share your things with that person.
And yeah, gift him with a set of cheap ones if he can't afford his own, and get a new roommate when you can, someone who respects you and is an adult (laughs at your rules about your own stuff? disrespectful. sulks when you clean up after him because he won't? childish.)
posted by davejay at 12:53 AM on October 23, 2010
And yeah, gift him with a set of cheap ones if he can't afford his own, and get a new roommate when you can, someone who respects you and is an adult (laughs at your rules about your own stuff? disrespectful. sulks when you clean up after him because he won't? childish.)
posted by davejay at 12:53 AM on October 23, 2010
A full set of pans costs about 10 bucks at IKEA. I know because I had to buy a set for this same reason. End of story.
posted by melissam at 4:28 PM on October 23, 2010
posted by melissam at 4:28 PM on October 23, 2010
I'm amazed that so many people think it's anal to want clean dishes, with no food left on them.
CLEAN IS GOOD!!!!!! It's not OCD or anal, and you're not a clean freak!
Claiming that I'm the problem (Well, I'm just anal, or a freak, or obnoxious) is just being codependent.
I've had similar issues with my roommate.
Oddly, once when I cleaned the bathroom sink and didn't get the faucet stains cleaned, she took a toothbrush and got it spotless. Clearly, she's capable of REAL clean.
She has admitted to me she hates taking the time to do the dishes thoroughly and is just too lazy to get them all clean.
I love her, but she needs to grow up in this area. I told her I don't like remnants from yesterday's meal mixed in with my dinner tonight, keeping it light....and asked her to please soak the dishes and make a more concerted effort. After that, when I would find lipstick stains on the glasses and totally unwashed, oily containers ("but I rinsed them!") in the "clean" rack, I decided I would place those still dirty dishes back on her counter space so she could rewash them. I let her know I was going to do that because otherwise, I would have to wash her dishes again.
I'm not going to do that because I'm not her mommy. She needs to raise her standard if she wants to be a roommate with other people and be considerate and respectful.
She hasn't gotten much better with the dishwashing skills, but I've just resigned myself to leaving the second cleanup to her. It's not my job to get her dirty dishes clean. And if she feels embarrassed, she can change her cleaning standards. I know, rationally, it's not my job to make her feel better about doing a half-assed job.
I still feel frustrated on my bad days, and on rare occasions I just clean it myself and use it, but I feel like I'm being as straight forward, constructive, non-passive aggressive, and non-codependent as I can at this point. I have put some of my "precious" things away.
If she doesn't want to rewash dishes or have me put them back on her counter to rewash, she can take the time to get them cleaner the first time. It's that simple. That frees me from making it my problem. My responsibility from there is to accept the differences between people and let it be.
posted by sleeping beauty at 7:47 PM on February 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
CLEAN IS GOOD!!!!!! It's not OCD or anal, and you're not a clean freak!
Claiming that I'm the problem (Well, I'm just anal, or a freak, or obnoxious) is just being codependent.
I've had similar issues with my roommate.
Oddly, once when I cleaned the bathroom sink and didn't get the faucet stains cleaned, she took a toothbrush and got it spotless. Clearly, she's capable of REAL clean.
She has admitted to me she hates taking the time to do the dishes thoroughly and is just too lazy to get them all clean.
I love her, but she needs to grow up in this area. I told her I don't like remnants from yesterday's meal mixed in with my dinner tonight, keeping it light....and asked her to please soak the dishes and make a more concerted effort. After that, when I would find lipstick stains on the glasses and totally unwashed, oily containers ("but I rinsed them!") in the "clean" rack, I decided I would place those still dirty dishes back on her counter space so she could rewash them. I let her know I was going to do that because otherwise, I would have to wash her dishes again.
I'm not going to do that because I'm not her mommy. She needs to raise her standard if she wants to be a roommate with other people and be considerate and respectful.
She hasn't gotten much better with the dishwashing skills, but I've just resigned myself to leaving the second cleanup to her. It's not my job to get her dirty dishes clean. And if she feels embarrassed, she can change her cleaning standards. I know, rationally, it's not my job to make her feel better about doing a half-assed job.
I still feel frustrated on my bad days, and on rare occasions I just clean it myself and use it, but I feel like I'm being as straight forward, constructive, non-passive aggressive, and non-codependent as I can at this point. I have put some of my "precious" things away.
If she doesn't want to rewash dishes or have me put them back on her counter to rewash, she can take the time to get them cleaner the first time. It's that simple. That frees me from making it my problem. My responsibility from there is to accept the differences between people and let it be.
posted by sleeping beauty at 7:47 PM on February 10, 2011 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mai at 7:26 PM on October 21, 2010 [3 favorites]