Another "kids/no kids is a deal-breaker" question.
September 17, 2010 10:02 AM Subscribe
How do you broach the subject of having kids in the future when first dating?
Ok, forgive me because I know this sort of question has been done to death, and my question is practically identical to this one: but I'd like some more specifics. I'm 31 and want kids in the next few years, preferably with a partner who wants them to.
My deal, I've been dating a wonderful 28 yr old guy for 2 months that I met on okcupid. I did put that I "liked kids" on my profile, but his was N/A. He also put n/a for pets, even though he has a cat, and n/a for religion, and he's atheist (2 things I'm thrilled about!) So, I don't know if he was just lazy when filling out his profile or thought that stuff was too personal or what. Bottom line though, I want to know if he wants kids before I fall in love with him (I've been hurt in this regard twice before) but I'm terrified to straight up ask him. My fear is that he'll say "no" simply because its too soon for him to think about, when it may be a "yes" later. I've heard some people say the guy must fall in love first before thinking about having kids with a woman. If that's true, should I wait? Its a bigger risk of being hurt, but then again would it be more likely he won't be spooked by the question? Or if you think I should ask early on, whats the best way to ask without seeming too needy or pressuring?
Answers from men would be particularly helpful.
Oh and please don't try and convince me that I shouldn't want kids. I respect the childfree peeps out there but I don't think my mind can be changed on this.
Ok, forgive me because I know this sort of question has been done to death, and my question is practically identical to this one: but I'd like some more specifics. I'm 31 and want kids in the next few years, preferably with a partner who wants them to.
My deal, I've been dating a wonderful 28 yr old guy for 2 months that I met on okcupid. I did put that I "liked kids" on my profile, but his was N/A. He also put n/a for pets, even though he has a cat, and n/a for religion, and he's atheist (2 things I'm thrilled about!) So, I don't know if he was just lazy when filling out his profile or thought that stuff was too personal or what. Bottom line though, I want to know if he wants kids before I fall in love with him (I've been hurt in this regard twice before) but I'm terrified to straight up ask him. My fear is that he'll say "no" simply because its too soon for him to think about, when it may be a "yes" later. I've heard some people say the guy must fall in love first before thinking about having kids with a woman. If that's true, should I wait? Its a bigger risk of being hurt, but then again would it be more likely he won't be spooked by the question? Or if you think I should ask early on, whats the best way to ask without seeming too needy or pressuring?
Answers from men would be particularly helpful.
Oh and please don't try and convince me that I shouldn't want kids. I respect the childfree peeps out there but I don't think my mind can be changed on this.
If I was your guy, now would be about the right time. Yes, people change. Yes, the answer to "kids?" can be very different when it's a concrete possibility with a specfiic person you love, rather than a purely hypothetical question. But if you wait much longer, you're both going to have a lot more invested in this relationship. If I was asked this on the first date, yes, it would spook me a bit, but two months is a reasonable amount of time to start checking up on longer-term compatibility.
posted by Tomorrowful at 10:09 AM on September 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Tomorrowful at 10:09 AM on September 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Different people have different priorities in dating. Yours is to find someone to make babies with. That's fine. Any given guy you might date may have different priorities right now, even if he does look forward to becoming a parent at some point in the future. Conversely, there may be guys out there for whom becoming a parent is priority #1 in dating.
You obviously want to find someone who you want to be with and who wants to be with you, as well as someone who wants to become a parent with you. So you need to strike a balance where you're clear pretty early on with guys you meet what your priorities are, but avoid guys who at some level may see you simply as the means to the end of becoming a parent (or the means to the end of getting their rocks off, for that matter).
If you've been seeing somebody regularly for a couple of months, and you get the feeling things could go somewhere, just have The Talk. "Look, I don't want to pressure you, but I'm interested in having kids in a few years. I'm not asking you to commit to that right now, but I want to know if you see that as a possible future for yourself."
This is pretty open-ended, and leaves the door open to a lot of things changing—as it should. Relationships can follow unpredictable paths. And the way the guy responds will tell you a lot.
posted by adamrice at 10:12 AM on September 17, 2010 [3 favorites]
You obviously want to find someone who you want to be with and who wants to be with you, as well as someone who wants to become a parent with you. So you need to strike a balance where you're clear pretty early on with guys you meet what your priorities are, but avoid guys who at some level may see you simply as the means to the end of becoming a parent (or the means to the end of getting their rocks off, for that matter).
If you've been seeing somebody regularly for a couple of months, and you get the feeling things could go somewhere, just have The Talk. "Look, I don't want to pressure you, but I'm interested in having kids in a few years. I'm not asking you to commit to that right now, but I want to know if you see that as a possible future for yourself."
This is pretty open-ended, and leaves the door open to a lot of things changing—as it should. Relationships can follow unpredictable paths. And the way the guy responds will tell you a lot.
posted by adamrice at 10:12 AM on September 17, 2010 [3 favorites]
I put a few things out there from the start, including my politics, my religion, and my desire for children. Even at 22, guys who were iffy-on-kids appreciated knowing that I was not iffy. It defined the terms of the relationship.
This is not the same thing as demanding an answer from him on where he stands. But if you're firm on this, he deserves to know more than just that "you like kids."
posted by SMPA at 10:14 AM on September 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
This is not the same thing as demanding an answer from him on where he stands. But if you're firm on this, he deserves to know more than just that "you like kids."
posted by SMPA at 10:14 AM on September 17, 2010 [2 favorites]
I have two things to mention to you.
First of all, I'm a guy (nearly 38) and I've known I want to have kids since my mid 20s. For me, it was an early question while dating, since, at this point in life (30s), if you want a family, you kind of need to have all those cards on the table early on.
Secondly, I have a good friend (female, mid 30s) that was dating a guy, they fell in love, moved in together, got a cat... it was all great! Until, one year along, they had the kids discussion, only to find out that she was an enthusiastic yes and he an emphatic no. It broke her heart and it took 3 or so months to make the final decision to move on.
So, if you like the guy and can see a future, and you're sure you want kids, ask him... with emphasis that it's not an immediate goal. Either he'll say yes and you're good to go, or he'll say no, and you know, or he'll freak out at the question... which is a good thing to find out early on (if he can't even handle the question like an adult, do you want to have kids with him?).
Good luck!
posted by Sustainable Chiles at 10:17 AM on September 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
First of all, I'm a guy (nearly 38) and I've known I want to have kids since my mid 20s. For me, it was an early question while dating, since, at this point in life (30s), if you want a family, you kind of need to have all those cards on the table early on.
Secondly, I have a good friend (female, mid 30s) that was dating a guy, they fell in love, moved in together, got a cat... it was all great! Until, one year along, they had the kids discussion, only to find out that she was an enthusiastic yes and he an emphatic no. It broke her heart and it took 3 or so months to make the final decision to move on.
So, if you like the guy and can see a future, and you're sure you want kids, ask him... with emphasis that it's not an immediate goal. Either he'll say yes and you're good to go, or he'll say no, and you know, or he'll freak out at the question... which is a good thing to find out early on (if he can't even handle the question like an adult, do you want to have kids with him?).
Good luck!
posted by Sustainable Chiles at 10:17 AM on September 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Just ask him casually. If he's a nice, normal guy, he'll answer honestly.
You're asking in order to determine how much you want to invest in the relationship, so just make sure it doesn't sound like you're doing what you're doing...
If he wants kids, he will say he does. If he says he doesn't, he either doesn't want kids or doesn't want kids with you. If he sees marriage and kids with you as a possibility, there's no good reason to lie.
So, in my opinion it's pretty clear-cut. 'Yes' is good, 'no' is bad, but you can't be 100% sure that either answer is definitive.
Oh, and I wouldn't really put much stock in OkCupid profiles, though it's great that you met someone.
posted by jykmf at 10:17 AM on September 17, 2010
You're asking in order to determine how much you want to invest in the relationship, so just make sure it doesn't sound like you're doing what you're doing...
If he wants kids, he will say he does. If he says he doesn't, he either doesn't want kids or doesn't want kids with you. If he sees marriage and kids with you as a possibility, there's no good reason to lie.
So, in my opinion it's pretty clear-cut. 'Yes' is good, 'no' is bad, but you can't be 100% sure that either answer is definitive.
Oh, and I wouldn't really put much stock in OkCupid profiles, though it's great that you met someone.
posted by jykmf at 10:17 AM on September 17, 2010
I've heard some people say the guy must fall in love first before thinking about having kids with a woman.
Rule of thumb: Any factoid you hear about the relationships between men and women which involves the phrase 'some people say' is really the last thing you want to use in defining your personal relationship with a man.
If you want kids in the "next few years," and you're in your 30s, it's fair to put the cards on the table early. Not first-date early but before-you-can-call-it-a-"relationship" early. You shouldn't be calling him your boyfriend if his plans for kids don't jive with yours on some level. Think about it: if he said he wanted kids ASAP, would you date him? I can't answer that, obviously, but I can conjecture you would say "no" as you want them in a few years, right? Well, he could say "no, period" and, there you go, no need to pursue things further. He could say "later" and that means you'll need to do some ethical calculus and figure out whether his definition of "later" is good with yours, e.g.: five years? Okay. ten years? Some guys will be able to say five or ten years (especially by the time they're 30ish,) some will not. Don't press for answers you want or numbers or dates; if they can't give you the answer you want that is your answer. You asked, you were replied to and the ball is in your court.
posted by griphus at 10:19 AM on September 17, 2010
Rule of thumb: Any factoid you hear about the relationships between men and women which involves the phrase 'some people say' is really the last thing you want to use in defining your personal relationship with a man.
If you want kids in the "next few years," and you're in your 30s, it's fair to put the cards on the table early. Not first-date early but before-you-can-call-it-a-"relationship" early. You shouldn't be calling him your boyfriend if his plans for kids don't jive with yours on some level. Think about it: if he said he wanted kids ASAP, would you date him? I can't answer that, obviously, but I can conjecture you would say "no" as you want them in a few years, right? Well, he could say "no, period" and, there you go, no need to pursue things further. He could say "later" and that means you'll need to do some ethical calculus and figure out whether his definition of "later" is good with yours, e.g.: five years? Okay. ten years? Some guys will be able to say five or ten years (especially by the time they're 30ish,) some will not. Don't press for answers you want or numbers or dates; if they can't give you the answer you want that is your answer. You asked, you were replied to and the ball is in your court.
posted by griphus at 10:19 AM on September 17, 2010
I (male) recently got married and a big part of our discussion before we got married was around this topic. In the 6 months prior to the wedding, we had many visioning type questions, thinking about things like where we might want to live in 5 or ten years, what kind of place that would look like (house, apartment, suburb, urban, close to family, etc), what we'd like to be doing job-wise in the future, and kids. The point of many of these conversations was just to get to know more about each other's visions for the future. We used getting married as an excuse to have these conversations (some things we'd already talked about as we dated, but it was good to check in again).
For me, I haven't thought much about kids other than feeling generally favorable to the idea of someday having them, and now that really understand our relationship I'm sure that I want to have kids with my wife. My wife has a much clearer timeline in her head, and our conversations have been about me thinking through things enough to have my own timeline and eventually to have our timelines match up. It has helped me that the idea was introduced as part of a larger conversation about visions for the future, and that when the subject was brought up it wasn't about pressure so much as about getting to know one another.
I think that, since you aren't yet in a long-term commitment situation, you could focus on getting to know his visions and sharing your own. Does he want to live in a city long term? Where would he absolutely love to live? Does he ever think about being a dad? Has he thought about ever having kids or when he might want to do that?
As you get more comfortable sharing what your personal visions are, you will get to know each other better and maybe get to the point where it makes sense for you to start negotiating those visions and aligning them with one another. It's a big step to take, involving lots of vulnerability from both of you. Take it slow in terms of asking for him to change if he's not in the same place as you about kids, but also be as open and honest as you can about what you need from the relationship so he can make some decisions on his own about what matters to him.
I'm happy for you that you know what you want! That's the biggest step towards finding someone else who wants that same thing with you.
posted by cubby at 10:24 AM on September 17, 2010
For me, I haven't thought much about kids other than feeling generally favorable to the idea of someday having them, and now that really understand our relationship I'm sure that I want to have kids with my wife. My wife has a much clearer timeline in her head, and our conversations have been about me thinking through things enough to have my own timeline and eventually to have our timelines match up. It has helped me that the idea was introduced as part of a larger conversation about visions for the future, and that when the subject was brought up it wasn't about pressure so much as about getting to know one another.
I think that, since you aren't yet in a long-term commitment situation, you could focus on getting to know his visions and sharing your own. Does he want to live in a city long term? Where would he absolutely love to live? Does he ever think about being a dad? Has he thought about ever having kids or when he might want to do that?
As you get more comfortable sharing what your personal visions are, you will get to know each other better and maybe get to the point where it makes sense for you to start negotiating those visions and aligning them with one another. It's a big step to take, involving lots of vulnerability from both of you. Take it slow in terms of asking for him to change if he's not in the same place as you about kids, but also be as open and honest as you can about what you need from the relationship so he can make some decisions on his own about what matters to him.
I'm happy for you that you know what you want! That's the biggest step towards finding someone else who wants that same thing with you.
posted by cubby at 10:24 AM on September 17, 2010
1. Two or three beers.
2. Goofy, charming smile while touching his face.
3. "Think you might want kids someday? Not with ME, necessarily, just, y'know, in general?"
(I know this is a SUPER-hard thing to bring up. You just hafta bite the bullet. I agonized for a looooong time over the issue, and one night, when we were lying in bed, I turned to my boyfriend and said, "Do you think you would you have a baby with me someday?" He said, "Yes, absolutely," and that was that. YMMV.)
posted by julthumbscrew at 10:30 AM on September 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
2. Goofy, charming smile while touching his face.
3. "Think you might want kids someday? Not with ME, necessarily, just, y'know, in general?"
(I know this is a SUPER-hard thing to bring up. You just hafta bite the bullet. I agonized for a looooong time over the issue, and one night, when we were lying in bed, I turned to my boyfriend and said, "Do you think you would you have a baby with me someday?" He said, "Yes, absolutely," and that was that. YMMV.)
posted by julthumbscrew at 10:30 AM on September 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Guy here who thinks if you ask it as a general question no worries. If you ask it specific with you, he might panic.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:00 AM on September 17, 2010
posted by JohnnyGunn at 11:00 AM on September 17, 2010
Response by poster: You shouldn't be calling him your boyfriend if his plans for kids don't jive with yours on some level.
Yeah, I already feel like I screwed up here, as he just asked me a few days ago to be his girlfriend. I think I was so surprised and flattered (it usually takes guys several months before using the g-word) that I said yes, but now I wish I used it as an opportunity to ask him about the future. I guess I can say "wow, kinda jumped into that without getting to know you better..can I ask you some questions?" or do the more casual/jokey thing. I'm kinda waffling between the two. I would ideally like to keep it light but I think I've worked myself up into a panic about it, and it will come out too dire, (gulp!). Yes, maybe 3 beers is necessary :)
posted by hellameangirl at 11:00 AM on September 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I already feel like I screwed up here, as he just asked me a few days ago to be his girlfriend. I think I was so surprised and flattered (it usually takes guys several months before using the g-word) that I said yes, but now I wish I used it as an opportunity to ask him about the future. I guess I can say "wow, kinda jumped into that without getting to know you better..can I ask you some questions?" or do the more casual/jokey thing. I'm kinda waffling between the two. I would ideally like to keep it light but I think I've worked myself up into a panic about it, and it will come out too dire, (gulp!). Yes, maybe 3 beers is necessary :)
posted by hellameangirl at 11:00 AM on September 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
It's never too early to find out if you have compatible goals and plans for life, unless you're looking for a one night stand. If my wife hadn't wanted kids, it would have been a deal breaker.
An easy way to work it into conversation is to do some babysitting or spend time together around family or friends kids. It will come up.
posted by blue_beetle at 11:14 AM on September 17, 2010
An easy way to work it into conversation is to do some babysitting or spend time together around family or friends kids. It will come up.
posted by blue_beetle at 11:14 AM on September 17, 2010
If I were in your situation (and I were being me), I'd mention it casually while on a stroll near a neighborhood park or somewhere else you see other people's children. "Oh, how cute, I love kids, I hope to have them some day ... of course mine will never eat sand like that little angel ..." (mine eats leaves.) I'd feel weird having a Serious Conversation about it, but I'd definitely want to KNOW, so I'd try to bring it up semi-naturally. But that's just me.
(Of course, personally, with my husband, we went into depth on the topic on the first date, but that's probably a bad model.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:22 AM on September 17, 2010
(Of course, personally, with my husband, we went into depth on the topic on the first date, but that's probably a bad model.)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 11:22 AM on September 17, 2010
Casual, casual, casual. Even if he wants kids, you don't want to go into Interrogation Mode.
posted by griphus at 11:31 AM on September 17, 2010
posted by griphus at 11:31 AM on September 17, 2010
I don't see why this can't be a casual topic of conversation. I see it as fitting nicely in with a conversation about things you don't know about each other. Maybe ask about his childhood hobbies, more about his brothers, where it grew up. Then, in a very casual way - because this is a casual conversation ask, "Do you see yourself having a family someday?"
There are two ways to make this awkward.
1) If you make this non casual. Don't make it a formal conversation (e.g., "Honey, I've wanted to talk to you about something for a few weeks. Can we sit down for a few minutes and talk?").
2) If you personalize it. Do you know him well enough to say that yes, you'd like to have kids with him? Don't make him decide the same thing about you. Remember, what you want to know is if he eventually is open or would like to have kids with someone, you're not asking for a commitment. If you personalized it, I'd see it as you asking for a commitment, or hinting that you might be pregnant.
(I'm a lady, btw)
posted by arnicae at 12:42 PM on September 17, 2010
There are two ways to make this awkward.
1) If you make this non casual. Don't make it a formal conversation (e.g., "Honey, I've wanted to talk to you about something for a few weeks. Can we sit down for a few minutes and talk?").
2) If you personalize it. Do you know him well enough to say that yes, you'd like to have kids with him? Don't make him decide the same thing about you. Remember, what you want to know is if he eventually is open or would like to have kids with someone, you're not asking for a commitment. If you personalized it, I'd see it as you asking for a commitment, or hinting that you might be pregnant.
(I'm a lady, btw)
posted by arnicae at 12:42 PM on September 17, 2010
Here's a thought, instead of asking him if he wants kids, why not put it in terms of what you want and ask him if he's on board with that (this is exactly what Mrs. Lurgi did. On our first date, if you can believe that)?
Hey (bf's name), I need to tell you something. I've known for a long time that I want kids. I'm not saying I want them right now, but my future definitely includes children. I love being with you and love you lots, but this is very important to me and I want to make sure that your plans are in sync with mine.
The idea is that phrasing it in terms of what you need might make him feel a little less pressured. I can't promise that it will work, however.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:35 PM on September 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
Hey (bf's name), I need to tell you something. I've known for a long time that I want kids. I'm not saying I want them right now, but my future definitely includes children. I love being with you and love you lots, but this is very important to me and I want to make sure that your plans are in sync with mine.
The idea is that phrasing it in terms of what you need might make him feel a little less pressured. I can't promise that it will work, however.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 1:35 PM on September 17, 2010 [1 favorite]
My deal, I've been dating a wonderful 28 yr old guy for 2 months that I met on okcupid. [...] I've heard some people say the guy must fall in love first before thinking about having kids with a woman. If that's true, should I wait?
My anecdotal experience is that my emotional response to the idea of children has varied between partners - but it's taken a lot less than two months.
I don't think you need to wait.
posted by Mike1024 at 1:56 PM on September 17, 2010
My anecdotal experience is that my emotional response to the idea of children has varied between partners - but it's taken a lot less than two months.
I don't think you need to wait.
posted by Mike1024 at 1:56 PM on September 17, 2010
I think you can get the information you need without making it a big to do. It seems like I've always found out how I guy feels pretty early on, through casual conversation (which is good). It usually comes up because we're talking about a niece or nephew, or someone we know who's gotten pregnant. The guy or I say something like, "Yeah, I don't know about having kids," or "I think I'm at a point where I could see having a baby in the future." The generally opens the conversation from there.
posted by lunalaguna at 2:16 PM on September 17, 2010
posted by lunalaguna at 2:16 PM on September 17, 2010
Response by poster: It seems like I've always found out how I guy feels pretty early on, through casual conversation (which is good). It usually comes up because we're talking about a niece or nephew, or someone we know who's gotten pregnant. The guy or I say something like, "Yeah, I don't know about having kids," or "I think I'm at a point where I could see having a baby in the future."
Yeah, this has happened to me in dating other guys before, usually where when I mention kids they are like, "ugg, too much work". So it was easy to get my answer.
But I've been dropping hints with my new bf and he doesn't really react either way. Neither of us have nieces or nephews, but I have friends and cousins with kids and I talk about them a lot, and he just kinda nods along. I also point out cute kids when we're around them, and he's always like "yeah, cute"--not cringing but not making googly eyes either. So I guess he's either not picking up the cues or is but avoiding the convo :/
posted by hellameangirl at 2:28 PM on September 17, 2010
Yeah, this has happened to me in dating other guys before, usually where when I mention kids they are like, "ugg, too much work". So it was easy to get my answer.
But I've been dropping hints with my new bf and he doesn't really react either way. Neither of us have nieces or nephews, but I have friends and cousins with kids and I talk about them a lot, and he just kinda nods along. I also point out cute kids when we're around them, and he's always like "yeah, cute"--not cringing but not making googly eyes either. So I guess he's either not picking up the cues or is but avoiding the convo :/
posted by hellameangirl at 2:28 PM on September 17, 2010
I wish you the very best with this relationship and your desire to have children. One note that hasn't been struck yet in this thread is this: suppose you ask him about kids casually, and he says "yes" in a very believable sort of way, but it turns out that actually he just likes dating you now (after all, he marked you as "girlfriend" early) and he knows that saying "no" to your question about kids means that you'll probably break up with him, soonish.
And maybe he figures, well, I'll say yes now and I'll keep seeing her for a year or so and then tell her the truth about how I feel about kids or break up for some other reason and there'll still be time for her to find someone else.
He might even feel this way without being entirely aware of all this, explicitly, in his mind. I'm a man, and though I'm a father myself, I know men in their 30s who have done this with girlfriends of a similar age. These weren't necessarily mean guys, I don't think, but I think they understood the question as ultimately a deal-breaker, and, when asked, they didn't want the deal broken just then.
I guess what I'm saying is that you want to protect yourself against this. You could consider asking him generally now, and then mentioning from time to time very lightly your feelings about having kids, seeing how he reacts each time. If nothing he says or conveys gives you suspicious vibes, you should be comfortable in six months or ten months to tell him point blank that if you guys are still together three years from now and you aren't trying to have a baby, you'll be feel disappointed/angry/betrayed (or whatever level of emotion you'd want to reveal or describe).
posted by Philemon at 8:14 PM on September 17, 2010
And maybe he figures, well, I'll say yes now and I'll keep seeing her for a year or so and then tell her the truth about how I feel about kids or break up for some other reason and there'll still be time for her to find someone else.
He might even feel this way without being entirely aware of all this, explicitly, in his mind. I'm a man, and though I'm a father myself, I know men in their 30s who have done this with girlfriends of a similar age. These weren't necessarily mean guys, I don't think, but I think they understood the question as ultimately a deal-breaker, and, when asked, they didn't want the deal broken just then.
I guess what I'm saying is that you want to protect yourself against this. You could consider asking him generally now, and then mentioning from time to time very lightly your feelings about having kids, seeing how he reacts each time. If nothing he says or conveys gives you suspicious vibes, you should be comfortable in six months or ten months to tell him point blank that if you guys are still together three years from now and you aren't trying to have a baby, you'll be feel disappointed/angry/betrayed (or whatever level of emotion you'd want to reveal or describe).
posted by Philemon at 8:14 PM on September 17, 2010
But I've been dropping hints with my new bf and he doesn't really react either way. Neither of us have nieces or nephews, but I have friends and cousins with kids and I talk about them a lot, and he just kinda nods along. I also point out cute kids when we're around them, and he's always like "yeah, cute"--not cringing but not making googly eyes either. So I guess he's either not picking up the cues or is but avoiding the convo :/
He's not the one avoiding the convo here! He can't answer questions you haven't asked.
Don't drop hints. I know it's scary, but dropping hints isn't the same as opening a direct but casual discussion like arnicae scripted beautifully.
posted by canine epigram at 8:58 PM on September 18, 2010
He's not the one avoiding the convo here! He can't answer questions you haven't asked.
Don't drop hints. I know it's scary, but dropping hints isn't the same as opening a direct but casual discussion like arnicae scripted beautifully.
posted by canine epigram at 8:58 PM on September 18, 2010
Response by poster: Well, I managed to work it in to conversation this weekend. HE actually brought up future plans. We both love Europe and we were talking about it, and he said how he would love to live there. I asked "like fantasy or are you really planning on it?", and he said he intends to move to New York first, advance his career there and make connections in Europe. Then he said with semi-silliness "wanna come with?"..."I dunno, are kids in your plans?" I asked, and he said point blank, "I have no idea..sometimes I think I'd like a kid, but you can't just have one kid can you? because only-children are spoiled brats." Then he said "what do YOU want?" ...and I was kinda stunned and mumbled something along the lines of "lately I've been wanting kids more and more but heh, I dunno about babies, kinda wanna skip that part heh." and the conversation kinda fizzled out, or got back on the Europe theme or something.
So I don't know what to think. I guess I chickened out on my response, but at least he knows I'm thinking about it, and at least it didn't scare him. But he definitely doesn't seem as gung-ho about family as he does on career and travel. I've always known that if I didn't have kids, then travel would be the alternative, and his plan does sound exciting... so maybe its better to stick with this guy and see? If I break up with him I may just be in the same boat over and over again (not meeting the right guy).
If I can get any follow-ups: Has anyone out there wanted kids but stayed with a fence-sitter? Regrets? Or has anyone put the kid dream to bed and found happiness being childfree, eventhough thats not what you originally wanted? Or gone it alone (single mom by choice)?
If anything, hearing his detailed plans made me feel like I need my own concrete plan.
posted by hellameangirl at 10:56 AM on September 20, 2010
So I don't know what to think. I guess I chickened out on my response, but at least he knows I'm thinking about it, and at least it didn't scare him. But he definitely doesn't seem as gung-ho about family as he does on career and travel. I've always known that if I didn't have kids, then travel would be the alternative, and his plan does sound exciting... so maybe its better to stick with this guy and see? If I break up with him I may just be in the same boat over and over again (not meeting the right guy).
If I can get any follow-ups: Has anyone out there wanted kids but stayed with a fence-sitter? Regrets? Or has anyone put the kid dream to bed and found happiness being childfree, eventhough thats not what you originally wanted? Or gone it alone (single mom by choice)?
If anything, hearing his detailed plans made me feel like I need my own concrete plan.
posted by hellameangirl at 10:56 AM on September 20, 2010
Then he said "what do YOU want?" ...and I was kinda stunned and mumbled something along the lines of "lately I've been wanting kids more and more but heh, I dunno about babies, kinda wanna skip that part heh." and the conversation kinda fizzled out [...] Has anyone out there wanted kids but stayed with a fence-sitter?
Well, you could probably un-fence-sitter him, one way or the other, by clarifying to him that you definitely do see children in your future and asking if he thinks there's room for that in his plans. Invite him to talk to his friends who already have children of their own, give him some time to think about it, and see what he says.
I mean, most of my long-term plans have flexibility because I know my future partners might have plans of their own.
posted by Mike1024 at 11:21 AM on September 20, 2010
Well, you could probably un-fence-sitter him, one way or the other, by clarifying to him that you definitely do see children in your future and asking if he thinks there's room for that in his plans. Invite him to talk to his friends who already have children of their own, give him some time to think about it, and see what he says.
I mean, most of my long-term plans have flexibility because I know my future partners might have plans of their own.
posted by Mike1024 at 11:21 AM on September 20, 2010
I'm on the exact other side of your situation, and have thought about posting several times. Here's what I got:
Everyone is saying stuff about "kids in your future". That doesn't mean to guys what it means to you. If you are 31, then you are on a timeline that says, "kids in the next few years". The scary thing for him can be how suddenly *his* timeline has now shifted. If one of his relationships could have had 5y to get acquainted and comfortable, now he must make the decision to marry and have kids without those extra years. It's worse if he hasn't squeezed the life out of singledom, or otherwise feels like he has something to resolve before he can have kids [this is in fact the only reason why relationships with older women make me anxious].
Maybe I have an unusual tolerance for straight-talk, but I would prefer to be told directly and exactly what you see happening and what you need from me. If it is relevant to the relationship, it's worth bringing up. You're doing the right thing to be thinking hard about what you want!
posted by gensubuser at 8:35 AM on September 21, 2010
Everyone is saying stuff about "kids in your future". That doesn't mean to guys what it means to you. If you are 31, then you are on a timeline that says, "kids in the next few years". The scary thing for him can be how suddenly *his* timeline has now shifted. If one of his relationships could have had 5y to get acquainted and comfortable, now he must make the decision to marry and have kids without those extra years. It's worse if he hasn't squeezed the life out of singledom, or otherwise feels like he has something to resolve before he can have kids [this is in fact the only reason why relationships with older women make me anxious].
Maybe I have an unusual tolerance for straight-talk, but I would prefer to be told directly and exactly what you see happening and what you need from me. If it is relevant to the relationship, it's worth bringing up. You're doing the right thing to be thinking hard about what you want!
posted by gensubuser at 8:35 AM on September 21, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for the follow-ups. Mike, as far as I know my boyfriend doesn't have any friends with kids.
gensubuser, are you saying you are in a relationship where she wants kids soon? otherwise I understand what you are saying, and thats why this whole topic makes me so nervous.
I do have a thing for younger guys, I must admit, and on my first date with my new boyfriend I asked if he was comfortable with me being slightly older. He said he prefers older women. Some people seem to think if only I dated older I would have a better chance of having children, but I think they are wrong. In my twenties I had a boyfriend for 5 years that was 10 years my senior. He had time to "get comfortable", yet never proposed and when I brought up kids he panicked and eventually dumped me. So I don't believe age and timeline gives different results. It just seems like all the guys out there that I'm attracted to don't care for children. I'm resigning to the fact that I won't be able to get both "the guy" and "the kid". I guess its an either/or.
posted by hellameangirl at 10:41 AM on September 21, 2010
gensubuser, are you saying you are in a relationship where she wants kids soon? otherwise I understand what you are saying, and thats why this whole topic makes me so nervous.
I do have a thing for younger guys, I must admit, and on my first date with my new boyfriend I asked if he was comfortable with me being slightly older. He said he prefers older women. Some people seem to think if only I dated older I would have a better chance of having children, but I think they are wrong. In my twenties I had a boyfriend for 5 years that was 10 years my senior. He had time to "get comfortable", yet never proposed and when I brought up kids he panicked and eventually dumped me. So I don't believe age and timeline gives different results. It just seems like all the guys out there that I'm attracted to don't care for children. I'm resigning to the fact that I won't be able to get both "the guy" and "the kid". I guess its an either/or.
posted by hellameangirl at 10:41 AM on September 21, 2010
So I don't know what to think. I guess I chickened out on my response, but at least he knows I'm thinking about it, and at least it didn't scare him. But he definitely doesn't seem as gung-ho about family as he does on career and travel.
You probably don't seem that gung-ho from his perspective either. Here's my thought: someone who answers a question about kids with a comment about how only children are a pain is probably okay with the idea of kids. If you think that "one" is a bad number of kids to have then it's a pretty safe bet that the number you are thinking of is not "zero".
You, OTOH, after getting a gold-plated opportunity, proceeded to muff it by saying "ick, babies". Seriously, get it together. You could have said something like "Yes, I do want children. Realistically I think it has to be in the next four or five years. What do you say to Europe and kids?". He might freak or he might say "Kids first probably makes more sense, timing wise". You appear to be tap-dancing around this issue, afraid to confront it, and then assuming the worst when he fails, yet again, to read your mind.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 5:30 PM on September 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
You probably don't seem that gung-ho from his perspective either. Here's my thought: someone who answers a question about kids with a comment about how only children are a pain is probably okay with the idea of kids. If you think that "one" is a bad number of kids to have then it's a pretty safe bet that the number you are thinking of is not "zero".
You, OTOH, after getting a gold-plated opportunity, proceeded to muff it by saying "ick, babies". Seriously, get it together. You could have said something like "Yes, I do want children. Realistically I think it has to be in the next four or five years. What do you say to Europe and kids?". He might freak or he might say "Kids first probably makes more sense, timing wise". You appear to be tap-dancing around this issue, afraid to confront it, and then assuming the worst when he fails, yet again, to read your mind.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 5:30 PM on September 24, 2010 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by hellameangirl at 10:04 AM on September 17, 2010