My car!!! What's wrong with my car!?
September 14, 2010 10:49 AM Subscribe
My car!!! What's wrong with my car!?
I have two problems that started in the last week...
VIDEO OF THE PROBLEM HERE
1) When first starting, the engine is just loud. Like loud white noise. This is a new feature that begins to fad just a few seconds into driving.
2) At low speeds a puttering (even "mechanical burbling") noise occurs and then stops repeatedly. It's especially noticeable when idling or braking, but can be at other times. This noise seems to be coming from the vicinity of the serpentine belt.
The oil has recently been changed and looks good. The transmission fluid looks good. Coolant looks good, and temperature gauge show temperatures are normal.
The car has 220k miles on it.
What's the problem? Is the vehicle safe to drive short or long distances? How can it be fixed (and for how much)?
I have two problems that started in the last week...
VIDEO OF THE PROBLEM HERE
1) When first starting, the engine is just loud. Like loud white noise. This is a new feature that begins to fad just a few seconds into driving.
2) At low speeds a puttering (even "mechanical burbling") noise occurs and then stops repeatedly. It's especially noticeable when idling or braking, but can be at other times. This noise seems to be coming from the vicinity of the serpentine belt.
The oil has recently been changed and looks good. The transmission fluid looks good. Coolant looks good, and temperature gauge show temperatures are normal.
The car has 220k miles on it.
What's the problem? Is the vehicle safe to drive short or long distances? How can it be fixed (and for how much)?
Your video isn't working, but if I had to guess, I'd start by looking at your radiator fan.
If the radiator fan's bad, you'll start to overheat in stop-and-go traffic, especially if you're running the AC (which also won't work very well under those conditions). Otherwise, if you're doing a lot of highway driving, the air being forced through the front grille is usually sufficient to cool the engine.
If the sound is coming from the vicinity of the serpentine belt, you could have problems with the belt itself (duh) or the water pump.
posted by schmod at 11:04 AM on September 14, 2010
If the radiator fan's bad, you'll start to overheat in stop-and-go traffic, especially if you're running the AC (which also won't work very well under those conditions). Otherwise, if you're doing a lot of highway driving, the air being forced through the front grille is usually sufficient to cool the engine.
If the sound is coming from the vicinity of the serpentine belt, you could have problems with the belt itself (duh) or the water pump.
posted by schmod at 11:04 AM on September 14, 2010
Just walked in the door from picking my car up after getting a maybe-similar problem fixed. Car sometimes shook a little and was loud starting up, and would shudder/shake/buck on stopping. Ended up a bad vacuum hose/valve that was collapsing sometimes, but not all the time, and causing other things to starve/misfire.
All in all it was about a 24-hour turnaround time and a $250 fix for me. Good luck!
posted by Rallon at 11:29 AM on September 14, 2010
All in all it was about a 24-hour turnaround time and a $250 fix for me. Good luck!
posted by Rallon at 11:29 AM on September 14, 2010
Best answer: I hear what you're talking about on the video, but it's hard to diagnose much without comparing that sound to the noise under the hood.
Pressing on without that info.... Noises coming from the serpentine belt area often indicate a bad idler pulley or a failing component driven by the pump (on my car, there's an alternator, A/C compressor, power steering pump, water pump, and a pair of tensioner/idler pulleys on that belt).
Driving the car puts you at risk of losing the belt and all that it provides power to. This scenario is a race between the battery and the engine cooling system - can the car overheat and blow a head gasket before the battery dies? Do you really want to find out the answer to that question?
I'd get it in shortly. As for what the repair is likely to cost, it sure would help to know what it is you're driving (year/make/model). My SAAB 9-5 recently went in for a new serpentine belt and two idler pulleys, and the bill was around $370 - but a simpler vehicle would be somewhat cheaper.
Depending on how restricted access to the belt is, you may be able to install the new belt yourself. A decent mechanic will allow you to pay for diagnosis and parts, but do the labor yourself at home, if you're so inclined.
posted by richyoung at 11:34 AM on September 14, 2010
Pressing on without that info.... Noises coming from the serpentine belt area often indicate a bad idler pulley or a failing component driven by the pump (on my car, there's an alternator, A/C compressor, power steering pump, water pump, and a pair of tensioner/idler pulleys on that belt).
Driving the car puts you at risk of losing the belt and all that it provides power to. This scenario is a race between the battery and the engine cooling system - can the car overheat and blow a head gasket before the battery dies? Do you really want to find out the answer to that question?
I'd get it in shortly. As for what the repair is likely to cost, it sure would help to know what it is you're driving (year/make/model). My SAAB 9-5 recently went in for a new serpentine belt and two idler pulleys, and the bill was around $370 - but a simpler vehicle would be somewhat cheaper.
Depending on how restricted access to the belt is, you may be able to install the new belt yourself. A decent mechanic will allow you to pay for diagnosis and parts, but do the labor yourself at home, if you're so inclined.
posted by richyoung at 11:34 AM on September 14, 2010
Best answer: It's really hard from that video to accurately diagnose, but the way it sounds and when it does and doesn't sound, makes me think that it may be something linked to the air con pump.
The fact that it seems to clutch in and out so abruptly makes me think it's the pump as well as does the amount of load implied by the change and kick of the engine The noises could be related to either the pump itself, the contained system (the hissing being escaping pressure?) or the extra load on the belt meaning that some other bearing on the same belt is grumbling and hissing away when under max load. I think the hissing is more likely to be a pulley bearing starting to run dry, though.
It's especially noticeable when idling or braking, but can be at other times.
I suggest that this is a red herring - engine noise probably drowns it at other times.
The oil has recently been changed and looks good. The transmission fluid looks good. Coolant looks good, and temperature gauge show temperatures are normal.
In case you weren't sure, none of that would seem at all relevant to diagnosing this issue to me. Does your air con work as well as it used to? There's not a whole lot more anyone can do from what you have given us in terms of any accurate diagnosis (especially in terms of safety of driving the car) so do take the advice with a pinch of salt and suitable caution.
As you no doubt know, the only way to get an accurate answer is to take it into a dealership and get it diagnosed. You don't seem to have the mechanical knowledge to diagnose it further and hands-on would be the best way to get an accurate answer in this instance.
posted by Brockles at 11:50 AM on September 14, 2010
The fact that it seems to clutch in and out so abruptly makes me think it's the pump as well as does the amount of load implied by the change and kick of the engine The noises could be related to either the pump itself, the contained system (the hissing being escaping pressure?) or the extra load on the belt meaning that some other bearing on the same belt is grumbling and hissing away when under max load. I think the hissing is more likely to be a pulley bearing starting to run dry, though.
It's especially noticeable when idling or braking, but can be at other times.
I suggest that this is a red herring - engine noise probably drowns it at other times.
The oil has recently been changed and looks good. The transmission fluid looks good. Coolant looks good, and temperature gauge show temperatures are normal.
In case you weren't sure, none of that would seem at all relevant to diagnosing this issue to me. Does your air con work as well as it used to? There's not a whole lot more anyone can do from what you have given us in terms of any accurate diagnosis (especially in terms of safety of driving the car) so do take the advice with a pinch of salt and suitable caution.
As you no doubt know, the only way to get an accurate answer is to take it into a dealership and get it diagnosed. You don't seem to have the mechanical knowledge to diagnose it further and hands-on would be the best way to get an accurate answer in this instance.
posted by Brockles at 11:50 AM on September 14, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for the feedback so far. A few points of clarification:
The car is a 2001 Ford Taurus SE.
No, the AC does not work anymore, and it stopped working about 6 weeks ago.
Yes, I agree that this behavior is probably happening at higher speeds, but is drowned out by engine noise.
I've taken it in for the water pump recently, and had to take it in again after finding that the mechanics did not replace the serpentine belt properly. Sounds like this problem is unrelated.
I'm going to try to take it in tonight, but any more insights would be helpful, as I've been considering replacing the whole car.
posted by jander03 at 12:05 PM on September 14, 2010
The car is a 2001 Ford Taurus SE.
No, the AC does not work anymore, and it stopped working about 6 weeks ago.
Yes, I agree that this behavior is probably happening at higher speeds, but is drowned out by engine noise.
I've taken it in for the water pump recently, and had to take it in again after finding that the mechanics did not replace the serpentine belt properly. Sounds like this problem is unrelated.
I'm going to try to take it in tonight, but any more insights would be helpful, as I've been considering replacing the whole car.
posted by jander03 at 12:05 PM on September 14, 2010
I think Brockles is on to something. My only addendum to that is that dealerships charge far more than independent auto mechanics, generally. If money matters to you, find an indie shop with a good reputation and have them look at it.
posted by richyoung at 1:50 PM on September 14, 2010
posted by richyoung at 1:50 PM on September 14, 2010
Best answer: No, the AC does not work anymore, and it stopped working about 6 weeks ago.
This implies the A/C refrigerant has probably leaked out (which is not uncommon on Taurii, due to the horrible setup of spring seals that seem to be designed to leak)
The loud declutching and reengaging is your air conditioning compressor, which is now running without the lubricants that are put in with the refrigerant, and has been for 6 weeks. It is undoubtedly trashed at this point, and you might find (as I once did) that the clutch is wobbling on it's shaft, which adds tons of noise and vibration.
I seem to remember repairs on my Taurus being about $1300 for this.
posted by pjern at 2:11 PM on September 14, 2010
This implies the A/C refrigerant has probably leaked out (which is not uncommon on Taurii, due to the horrible setup of spring seals that seem to be designed to leak)
The loud declutching and reengaging is your air conditioning compressor, which is now running without the lubricants that are put in with the refrigerant, and has been for 6 weeks. It is undoubtedly trashed at this point, and you might find (as I once did) that the clutch is wobbling on it's shaft, which adds tons of noise and vibration.
I seem to remember repairs on my Taurus being about $1300 for this.
posted by pjern at 2:11 PM on September 14, 2010
The video is blocked at my work, but I want to amplify the previous response about vacuum leak, which can be trivial to fix. Look for a metal nipple that a rubber cap might have popped off of, and check the small hoses for a loose connection or crack.
posted by neuron at 4:41 PM on September 14, 2010
posted by neuron at 4:41 PM on September 14, 2010
Best answer: It sounds like the air conditioner is trying to run the compressor. Make sure AC and defrost are off and see if the sound goes away.
what pjern said
posted by gjc at 5:05 PM on September 14, 2010
what pjern said
posted by gjc at 5:05 PM on September 14, 2010
Response by poster: pjern and gjc win this game of "Guess what's wrong based on limited clues," with richyoung and brockles in a close second.
The AC compressor and its clutch are destroyed. It will cost $500 to simply put in a sealed off A/C compressor so the car will be safe to drive (the pulley is stopping and starting) and another $300 to make it work.
And the sound was made worse in the video because I had the defrost on. Without the defrost, the problem is barely noticeable.
The system has had refrigerant flushed through twice this summer with no signs of leaks, and no mechanic caught the compressor issue before now.
Next steps
What do I do with this car? I'm going to get rid of it, but who would buy it?
posted by jander03 at 6:24 AM on September 15, 2010
The AC compressor and its clutch are destroyed. It will cost $500 to simply put in a sealed off A/C compressor so the car will be safe to drive (the pulley is stopping and starting) and another $300 to make it work.
And the sound was made worse in the video because I had the defrost on. Without the defrost, the problem is barely noticeable.
The system has had refrigerant flushed through twice this summer with no signs of leaks, and no mechanic caught the compressor issue before now.
Next steps
What do I do with this car? I'm going to get rid of it, but who would buy it?
posted by jander03 at 6:24 AM on September 15, 2010
Best answer: Junkyard compressor. If the system is depleted, there is little to no risk to you in disconnecting the old system (but do it outside) and sticking another compressor in there.
You now have two options if you are selling the car - re-pressurise the system and sell it, or try and sell it before the replacement pump (compressor) dies again. From experience, you'd have about 3-4 weeks to do this, but it's kind of a mean trick.
With a second hand compressor, it won't last as long as a $500 one, but it's a secondhand car, so theres not much point investing $500 if you're selling it. Even if it were my car I was keep;ing I'd probably wing it on a good looking one from a junkyard and play the odds if I was tight for money.
So, my advice is to change the compressor, get a refill at the nearest cheap place you can and advertise the car with everything working.
posted by Brockles at 7:48 AM on September 15, 2010
You now have two options if you are selling the car - re-pressurise the system and sell it, or try and sell it before the replacement pump (compressor) dies again. From experience, you'd have about 3-4 weeks to do this, but it's kind of a mean trick.
With a second hand compressor, it won't last as long as a $500 one, but it's a secondhand car, so theres not much point investing $500 if you're selling it. Even if it were my car I was keep;ing I'd probably wing it on a good looking one from a junkyard and play the odds if I was tight for money.
So, my advice is to change the compressor, get a refill at the nearest cheap place you can and advertise the car with everything working.
posted by Brockles at 7:48 AM on September 15, 2010
Best answer: Junkyard compressor. If the system is depleted, there is little to no risk to you in disconnecting the old system (but do it outside) and sticking another compressor in there.
You now have two options if you are selling the car - re-pressurise the system and sell it, or try and sell it before the replacement pump (compressor) dies again. From experience, you'd have about 3-4 weeks to do this, but it's kind of a mean trick.
It is illegal (at the federal level in the US) to recharge an AC system known to be leaking. Don't do it, especially if you're planning to eventually sell the car.
Also: The AC system still may be under high pressure. Working on it by yourself is not advisable if you don't know what you're doing. The suggestion to scavenge one off of a junker is not a bad one, though -- see if you can find a mechanic willing to do that sort of a swap. A 9 year old car with 220,000 miles is essentially a time-bomb -- sinking a lot of money may not be wise, as the car's not worth much on the resale market, and you're going to begin running into an escalating series of repair bills.
posted by schmod at 12:06 PM on September 15, 2010
You now have two options if you are selling the car - re-pressurise the system and sell it, or try and sell it before the replacement pump (compressor) dies again. From experience, you'd have about 3-4 weeks to do this, but it's kind of a mean trick.
It is illegal (at the federal level in the US) to recharge an AC system known to be leaking. Don't do it, especially if you're planning to eventually sell the car.
Also: The AC system still may be under high pressure. Working on it by yourself is not advisable if you don't know what you're doing. The suggestion to scavenge one off of a junker is not a bad one, though -- see if you can find a mechanic willing to do that sort of a swap. A 9 year old car with 220,000 miles is essentially a time-bomb -- sinking a lot of money may not be wise, as the car's not worth much on the resale market, and you're going to begin running into an escalating series of repair bills.
posted by schmod at 12:06 PM on September 15, 2010
Response by poster: Since the car seems to run well enough as long as the A/C isn't running, I think I'm going to try to sell it as is, with the caveat of "NEVER use the A/C or defrost". I could see replacing with a smoother compressor, but I still wouldn't feel good about hooking up the A/C unless I knew it was going to work -- so it may not be worth the money.
You guys have a wealth of knowledge that I never could have gotten from a conversation with a mechanic (not knowing what questions to ask, etc). Thank you for that.
posted by jander03 at 8:35 AM on September 16, 2010
You guys have a wealth of knowledge that I never could have gotten from a conversation with a mechanic (not knowing what questions to ask, etc). Thank you for that.
posted by jander03 at 8:35 AM on September 16, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Rhomboid at 11:03 AM on September 14, 2010