Permission to paint a room?
September 13, 2010 1:13 PM Subscribe
I got a new roommate who painted her room dark gray. I wasn't home when she painted and I found out when I got home. Should she have asked permission?
Just a little background: I'm the only leaseholder in the apartment. The new roommate signed a sublease but it was strictly about money (not the whole detailed 20 page lease that I have) We are allowed to paint the apartment as long as we repaint it white.
My room is painted and so is the living room. It's 100% okay for her to paint her room as long as she repaints it. I find it odd that she didn't ask me first though. Am I over-reacting/being way too anal?
She moved in last week and we did not know each other prior (craigslist find).
Just a little background: I'm the only leaseholder in the apartment. The new roommate signed a sublease but it was strictly about money (not the whole detailed 20 page lease that I have) We are allowed to paint the apartment as long as we repaint it white.
My room is painted and so is the living room. It's 100% okay for her to paint her room as long as she repaints it. I find it odd that she didn't ask me first though. Am I over-reacting/being way too anal?
She moved in last week and we did not know each other prior (craigslist find).
If she didn't need the landlord's permissions, why would she need yours? She lives there now and pays rent, just like you do. It's her room.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:17 PM on September 13, 2010 [10 favorites]
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:17 PM on September 13, 2010 [10 favorites]
well, if she knew that tenants are allowed to paint as long as they paint it back to white, i would think that she wouldn't really need your permission. altho, if it was me, as a courtesy, i would have at least mentioned to you prior that i was going to paint my walls. on the other hand, if she didn't know she was allowed to paint, yeah, it would be somewhat irksome that she didn't ask you, but ultimately, Not A Big Deal. as long as she knows she has to repaint it when she leaves.
posted by violetk at 1:17 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by violetk at 1:17 PM on September 13, 2010
Well, you have a point for being a bit worried - as the only leaseholder for your apartment, you're the one on the hook for making sure everything is repainted when she moves out. If I were you, I'd remind her in a friendly, non-confrontational way that you noticed that she painted her room, that the lease says that's OK so long as it's repainted white when the apartment is vacated. Point out that while you have no problem with her painting the room dark gray, she'll need to repaint it white before she moves out.
posted by LN at 1:17 PM on September 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
posted by LN at 1:17 PM on September 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
Sounds reasonable to me, as long as she re-paints it later. If it was the living room or something I might think differently, it's just her room, so... (shrug).
posted by Menthol at 1:17 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by Menthol at 1:17 PM on September 13, 2010
Did she know that your are allowed to paint the place?
posted by travis08 at 1:18 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by travis08 at 1:18 PM on September 13, 2010
Just make sure it gets repainted. You're being way too anal about her painting as long as she knew y'all were allowed to paint.
posted by theichibun at 1:19 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by theichibun at 1:19 PM on September 13, 2010
Did she read your full lease, to familiarize herself with what's allowed and what's not in the apartment? If so, then no I don't think she needed to ask your permission to paint her room since she was aware that it was allowed.
That room is her space now, and none of your business except for how it affects the overall and/or shared living space. Let it go.
posted by carsonb at 1:20 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
That room is her space now, and none of your business except for how it affects the overall and/or shared living space. Let it go.
posted by carsonb at 1:20 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
She should have asked permission, but she did not, which means she is either a immature, a bit of a flake, self-absorbed, or all three.
You're not being too anal, although you may have expectations about behaviour that are far too high for someone who is basically an anonymous stranger found on Craigslist.
Usually it's a good idea to go over all of the ground rules first thing, rather than pull out the lease or whatever after the fact. You probably need to mention to your roommate that the room has to be repainted white when she moves out. That said, it's probably unwise to expect she will actually repaint her room, and it may not be a battle worth fighting anyway.
This is probably a good time to sit down and go over the lease with her. Mention the thing about painting, but then admit a mea culpa for not mentioning it sooner. Spend what currency you have on getting her to conform to other rules, and try to get a verbal commitment from her to repaint the room. But I wouldn't make an issue out of it. Focus on the important stuff, like no smoking, no cats, and no drug dealers (or whatever else is most important to you).
posted by KokuRyu at 1:21 PM on September 13, 2010 [8 favorites]
You're not being too anal, although you may have expectations about behaviour that are far too high for someone who is basically an anonymous stranger found on Craigslist.
Usually it's a good idea to go over all of the ground rules first thing, rather than pull out the lease or whatever after the fact. You probably need to mention to your roommate that the room has to be repainted white when she moves out. That said, it's probably unwise to expect she will actually repaint her room, and it may not be a battle worth fighting anyway.
This is probably a good time to sit down and go over the lease with her. Mention the thing about painting, but then admit a mea culpa for not mentioning it sooner. Spend what currency you have on getting her to conform to other rules, and try to get a verbal commitment from her to repaint the room. But I wouldn't make an issue out of it. Focus on the important stuff, like no smoking, no cats, and no drug dealers (or whatever else is most important to you).
posted by KokuRyu at 1:21 PM on September 13, 2010 [8 favorites]
Was she aware that the room could be painted as long as she repainted it white if she moved out, or did she just paint it "willy-nilly"? You don't make that point clear.
If she knew about the painting requirement then I think that you're over-reacting. If not, then she should have asked you first.
posted by Hanuman1960 at 1:22 PM on September 13, 2010
If she knew about the painting requirement then I think that you're over-reacting. If not, then she should have asked you first.
posted by Hanuman1960 at 1:22 PM on September 13, 2010
Response by poster: I guess I was thinking that because we don't have anything in writing for her to repaint-I may be the one stuck repainting. I could just stop being passive aggressive and remind her that she needs to repaint when she moves.
posted by duddes02 at 1:23 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by duddes02 at 1:23 PM on September 13, 2010 [2 favorites]
How about asking for a post-dated check to cover the cost of repainting, that you can return if she repaints? Sort of a security deposit.
I dunno, maybe that's a bit crazy, but I was always a terrible roommate.
posted by muddgirl at 1:24 PM on September 13, 2010
I dunno, maybe that's a bit crazy, but I was always a terrible roommate.
posted by muddgirl at 1:24 PM on September 13, 2010
She probably should have told you more in an FYI kind of way, "Hey roomie, if you're bothered by odors, I'm painting my room tomorrow." (I would have anyway)
What's done is done.
Also, seeing as you weren't friends before this, this might be a good time to have a talk with each other about what kind of communication is expected of the other regarding the apartment, "Hey, I'm having friends over tonight" kind of stuff.
posted by NoraCharles at 1:24 PM on September 13, 2010
What's done is done.
Also, seeing as you weren't friends before this, this might be a good time to have a talk with each other about what kind of communication is expected of the other regarding the apartment, "Hey, I'm having friends over tonight" kind of stuff.
posted by NoraCharles at 1:24 PM on September 13, 2010
Response by poster: @Hanuman- I don't know if she knows it has to be repainted as she didn't discuss it with me. I am assuming she thinks it's okay (which it is!) because the other rooms are painted. I'm just not so sure she knows it has to be white again when she moves. I'll confirm it all with her though.
posted by duddes02 at 1:27 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by duddes02 at 1:27 PM on September 13, 2010
I think that you're being a little too anal about it, but I can understand being concerned since you're the only leaseholder. But, after all, look at it from her perspective: you don't sleep in the room, and she probably purposefully waited until you were gone so that you wouldn't be inconvenienced by the smells and sounds of an ongoing painting project, not out of sneakiness. That said, it is a bit odd that she didn't mention to you beforehand that she was planning on painting her room.
If you're worried about the room getting repainted, I would second LN.
posted by kataclysm at 1:28 PM on September 13, 2010
If you're worried about the room getting repainted, I would second LN.
posted by kataclysm at 1:28 PM on September 13, 2010
Response by poster: @noracharles- I told her it was an adult apartment (she's in college and 21, while we are all working and in our mid twenties) and that she just needed to act accordingly. We don't need permission from each other to have friends over..etc. She may have just taken what I said and went running with it-in order not to bother me with "minor"stuff.
posted by duddes02 at 1:29 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by duddes02 at 1:29 PM on September 13, 2010
I wouldn't have said she was being too anal with those words, but the OP brought them up first. And I get that the OP is the one ultimately responsible on the lease. But unless the OP thought they would get to deny the color choice (which I will agree with is some combination of weird and ugly) there's really nothing else to it.
Really, asking permission to do something that the lease says is allowed shouldn't have to happen. I also don't think it's weird that the roommate painted while the OP was away, unless you throw in a condition like "the roommate specifically waited until the OP was away." The timing is coincidental. Hell, I put up a ceiling fan while my roommate was away. It doesn't make me a bad roommate.
The post dated check isn't a bad idea depending on the vibe you get from the roommate though. I wouldn't have an issue with that except for the part where I can never find my checkbook.
But yeah, again, just make sure she knows it has to be white. It's entirely possible that she went to the apartment office and asked about painting.
posted by theichibun at 1:29 PM on September 13, 2010
Really, asking permission to do something that the lease says is allowed shouldn't have to happen. I also don't think it's weird that the roommate painted while the OP was away, unless you throw in a condition like "the roommate specifically waited until the OP was away." The timing is coincidental. Hell, I put up a ceiling fan while my roommate was away. It doesn't make me a bad roommate.
The post dated check isn't a bad idea depending on the vibe you get from the roommate though. I wouldn't have an issue with that except for the part where I can never find my checkbook.
But yeah, again, just make sure she knows it has to be white. It's entirely possible that she went to the apartment office and asked about painting.
posted by theichibun at 1:29 PM on September 13, 2010
If she's not on the lease, what she does IS in fact the concern of the person who is on the lease. If she showed up tomorrow with a dishwasher, and the lease says "no dishwashers," it would absolutely be the concern of the person who is on the lease. Likewise for hanging things on walls, putting a ceiling fan in to replace an overhead light, or tearing up carpeting, or bringing home a dog, even if it "lives in your room".
I don't know where you all have lived where you could move into a unit or a room and just start doing whatever you want, but I've never lived in that place, and I've lived in my fair share of cities/countries/living situations. C'mon.
It is generally good to have some kind of roommate agreement in place when someone moves in, even if it's just in letter format. It's not too late to do this now. It should cover everything you're on the hook for in the lease you signed, and should also specify under what terms, and when, you'll return her deposit. e.g., she can't use her security deposit for last month's rent and she'll get it back provided that she repaints the room, patches nail holes, removes all personal property and leaves the room in broom clean condition. IANYL or your broker.
posted by micawber at 1:30 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't know where you all have lived where you could move into a unit or a room and just start doing whatever you want, but I've never lived in that place, and I've lived in my fair share of cities/countries/living situations. C'mon.
It is generally good to have some kind of roommate agreement in place when someone moves in, even if it's just in letter format. It's not too late to do this now. It should cover everything you're on the hook for in the lease you signed, and should also specify under what terms, and when, you'll return her deposit. e.g., she can't use her security deposit for last month's rent and she'll get it back provided that she repaints the room, patches nail holes, removes all personal property and leaves the room in broom clean condition. IANYL or your broker.
posted by micawber at 1:30 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I think it's perfectly understandable and acceptable for you to have been surprised, coming home to a drastic change like that out of the blue (even if it is her room). I guess from your description she wasn't required to ask permission per se, but I guess it would feel odd that she never mentioned it. Of course, it probably never occurred to her to do so. (But then again, she's sub-leasing, which kind of affects the context.) In any case, just do what you said and make sure to go over with her her responsibility for repainting the room.
posted by Busoni at 1:31 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by Busoni at 1:31 PM on September 13, 2010
Considering that you are both renters, and the rules state that she can paint, no, she does not need your permission.
As a very experienced long-time roommate, I'd probably notify my roommate(s) as a courtesy if I thought they might be put out in some way. But if you were at work and the whole thing got done without a big annoying mess, no courtesy needed.
The only other reason I would notify my roommate(s) that I was going to paint a private area of the apartment would be if I shared space with the owner or someone else who might be in a position to have an emotional attachment to my room and the way it looks. Then again, if that were the case, unless it was a very close friend or a specific situation, maybe they shouldn't have rented the room if they had such strong opinions of the aesthetics.
posted by Sara C. at 1:33 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
As a very experienced long-time roommate, I'd probably notify my roommate(s) as a courtesy if I thought they might be put out in some way. But if you were at work and the whole thing got done without a big annoying mess, no courtesy needed.
The only other reason I would notify my roommate(s) that I was going to paint a private area of the apartment would be if I shared space with the owner or someone else who might be in a position to have an emotional attachment to my room and the way it looks. Then again, if that were the case, unless it was a very close friend or a specific situation, maybe they shouldn't have rented the room if they had such strong opinions of the aesthetics.
posted by Sara C. at 1:33 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: @micawber- Thanks for the input.
I think I may be asking this because of my last roommates behavior. .
She used her security for last months rent, broke the closet doors and handles and never told me, left the room dirty..etc. It was all okay to deal with-but it was an extra headache and I'd like to avoid it with the new roommate.
posted by duddes02 at 1:35 PM on September 13, 2010
I think I may be asking this because of my last roommates behavior. .
She used her security for last months rent, broke the closet doors and handles and never told me, left the room dirty..etc. It was all okay to deal with-but it was an extra headache and I'd like to avoid it with the new roommate.
posted by duddes02 at 1:35 PM on September 13, 2010
I don't know where you all have lived where you could move into a unit or a room and just start doing whatever you want
If someone invites you to live in their home permanently (whether or not money or red tape is involved, but ESPECIALLY if that's the case), you live there permanently and can do what you like with your part of the space as long as it is otherwise within the rules of your collective lease.
Being the person with the name on the lease means nothing wrt stuff like painting or changing fixtures. That's what deposits are for.
posted by Sara C. at 1:36 PM on September 13, 2010
If someone invites you to live in their home permanently (whether or not money or red tape is involved, but ESPECIALLY if that's the case), you live there permanently and can do what you like with your part of the space as long as it is otherwise within the rules of your collective lease.
Being the person with the name on the lease means nothing wrt stuff like painting or changing fixtures. That's what deposits are for.
posted by Sara C. at 1:36 PM on September 13, 2010
I don't know where you all have lived where you could move into a unit or a room and just start doing whatever you want
The city.
I've lived in plenty of apartments (like houses in the city- not real suburb apartment complexes) and I've never really been on a lease - it's always pretty laid back considering the houses I've been in are old and it's not clean before someone moves in. Usually each individual is responsible for asking the landlord if they can make changes like painting or changing cabinet doors and such. And usually they don't care because stuff usually needs painting and replacement. I've never had a roommate tell me he/she was painting - unless it was the living room.
I have been in two situations where there are one or two people on the lease and they need a 3rd/4th roommate, so I sign some sort of tax document for the landlord and sign a homemade deposit note and make copies. I figured this was in case I screwed something up in the apartment - I wouldn't get my deposit back and they would be able to contact me.
Like one roommate I had who was subleasing - he left hair dye (?) all over the floor of his room and there was a hole in the wall. We just called the landlord and let her deal with it. He just didn't get his deposit back, if I remember.
That could just be my experience, though.
posted by KogeLiz at 1:51 PM on September 13, 2010
The city.
I've lived in plenty of apartments (like houses in the city- not real suburb apartment complexes) and I've never really been on a lease - it's always pretty laid back considering the houses I've been in are old and it's not clean before someone moves in. Usually each individual is responsible for asking the landlord if they can make changes like painting or changing cabinet doors and such. And usually they don't care because stuff usually needs painting and replacement. I've never had a roommate tell me he/she was painting - unless it was the living room.
I have been in two situations where there are one or two people on the lease and they need a 3rd/4th roommate, so I sign some sort of tax document for the landlord and sign a homemade deposit note and make copies. I figured this was in case I screwed something up in the apartment - I wouldn't get my deposit back and they would be able to contact me.
Like one roommate I had who was subleasing - he left hair dye (?) all over the floor of his room and there was a hole in the wall. We just called the landlord and let her deal with it. He just didn't get his deposit back, if I remember.
That could just be my experience, though.
posted by KogeLiz at 1:51 PM on September 13, 2010
I'm going to disagree with many and say that as the subletter you have the right to impose more restrictive rules than the landlord. This is not a collective lease with both of you as direct tenants of the landlord. If you're concerned that she won't repaint before moving out, then you can tell her not to paint. If the landlord says the place has 2 parking spaces, you can have both of them. If the landlord says you can have overnight guests for weeks on end, but you don't want her to, you can do that. But, you need to spell this all out with your roomate, preferably in writing, because you are in effect her landlord. If you don't do that and you give her a copy of the existing lease, it's reasonable for her to think that document applies equally to both of you. You are the only one legally responsible to the landlord, so you're going to be left paying for anything she doesn't take care of.
posted by Sukey Says at 1:56 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by Sukey Says at 1:56 PM on September 13, 2010
Mod note: comment remove - if you're starting comments with "not to be a jerk but...." maybe you should reconsider if you are truly being helpful. thank you.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:59 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:59 PM on September 13, 2010
I know I've already answered/contributed/etc. but I just thought of something.
I'm not sure if this applies to you, OP, but one of my current roommates - the leaseholder, in fact - works crazy hours. And when she's not working, she's often out with friends, enjoying her scant time off. I work a lot, too, and our schedules are somewhat oppositional. Because of all this, we might go a week or more without seeing each other.
Because our third roommate also has a very different schedule than the two of ours, the three of us are almost never home at the same time. Seriously, it's happened like twice in the 2 months I've lived there. This makes consensus-building meetings difficult, and means that unless I know it would be morally wrong to make a decision without their consent, I usually just go ahead and do what I want to do in the apartment.
Is it possible that this is the situation, or contributing to it?
posted by Sara C. at 2:05 PM on September 13, 2010
I'm not sure if this applies to you, OP, but one of my current roommates - the leaseholder, in fact - works crazy hours. And when she's not working, she's often out with friends, enjoying her scant time off. I work a lot, too, and our schedules are somewhat oppositional. Because of all this, we might go a week or more without seeing each other.
Because our third roommate also has a very different schedule than the two of ours, the three of us are almost never home at the same time. Seriously, it's happened like twice in the 2 months I've lived there. This makes consensus-building meetings difficult, and means that unless I know it would be morally wrong to make a decision without their consent, I usually just go ahead and do what I want to do in the apartment.
Is it possible that this is the situation, or contributing to it?
posted by Sara C. at 2:05 PM on September 13, 2010
She took it upon herself to repaint the room without informing you. What makes you think she's going to inform you when she moves out. I'd get an estimate on the cost of repainting the room then tell her you want the money for that now. If she refuses, kick her to the curb, you'll be saving yourself grief in the long run.
posted by JohnE at 2:06 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by JohnE at 2:06 PM on September 13, 2010
Just tell her she can paint as she wishes but that when she leaves it needs to be repainted white.
Telling her isn't enough. You need something in writing.
I think you should casually and politely check in with the landlord "just to clarify" how the various leases and subleases handle things like this (e.g., maybe her sublease includes a clause subjecting her to all the conditions of the main lease). Better to clear it up now than deal with confusion at the end, especially since you don't know this person at all. However the leases are handled, I'd definitely make sure there's something she's signed specifically stating she's responsible for painting the room to white before she leaves, or specifically acknowledging she's subject to the terms of the primary lease on things like that.
Oh, and for the record, yes, she should have mentioned it first and given you a chance to check the lease situation ahead of the painting.
posted by mediareport at 2:13 PM on September 13, 2010
Telling her isn't enough. You need something in writing.
I think you should casually and politely check in with the landlord "just to clarify" how the various leases and subleases handle things like this (e.g., maybe her sublease includes a clause subjecting her to all the conditions of the main lease). Better to clear it up now than deal with confusion at the end, especially since you don't know this person at all. However the leases are handled, I'd definitely make sure there's something she's signed specifically stating she's responsible for painting the room to white before she leaves, or specifically acknowledging she's subject to the terms of the primary lease on things like that.
Oh, and for the record, yes, she should have mentioned it first and given you a chance to check the lease situation ahead of the painting.
posted by mediareport at 2:13 PM on September 13, 2010
If you take Sukey Says' advice, you should be prepared to find it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to find acceptable roommates in the future. Nobody wants to move into an apartment where they can't enjoy the amenities that would otherwise come with the space, or where their potential roommate treats them like a child. And most mature adults who would make good roommates are going to notice that there are two parking spaces but they can't have one, that you have guests and they can't, etc.
posted by Sara C. at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by Sara C. at 2:20 PM on September 13, 2010
Response by poster: @saraC-yes, VERY possible. I"m really not home alot and if I am, I like to keep my door closed and watch reality shows :)
posted by duddes02 at 2:21 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by duddes02 at 2:21 PM on September 13, 2010
Response by poster: @Sara C (again). I"m in Manhattan-I doubt I will EVER have a problem renting out that room. I'ts a great apartment and in a prime area PLUS it's reasonable rent (a true find for NYC!)
posted by duddes02 at 2:22 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by duddes02 at 2:22 PM on September 13, 2010
Most landlords don't want you to paint any wall, ever. Tenants will skirt rules and painting is an easy one to skirt. I recommend that you call the landlord and ask what kind of white is used on the walls, for a friend who wants to know. You can keep a can around in the closet for touch-ups and ease the way when the your sub leaves.
posted by parmanparman at 2:28 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by parmanparman at 2:28 PM on September 13, 2010
My room is painted and so is the living room. So she walked into a space that was already painted and also painted her space. I don't see the big deal.
posted by haplesschild at 2:39 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by haplesschild at 2:39 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Mod note: few more comments removed. Folks absolutely need to take this to email or MetaTalk, please, you are taking this way too personally.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:54 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 2:54 PM on September 13, 2010
Considering that you are both renters, and the rules state that she can paint, no, she does not need your permission.
Man, does anyone read the responses? The roommate apparently had no idea that she could paint if that was painted over. She's not on the original lease, either, so that doesn't even necessarily apply to her, since as a subletter she may have a more restrictive lease entirely. Anything that's not explicit in it should be clarified before she paints her room, allows her SO to move in, gets a pet, &c. She doesn't know who or when the other painted rooms got to be that way, so why would she just assume she can paint her room? As far as the idea that adults don't have to ask about these things, most adults have no problem saying, "hey, I'm going to paint my room if that's okay... just want to make sure there are no landlord issues and that none of the roommates have paint sensitivities."
My room is painted and so is the living room. So she walked into a space that was already painted and also painted her space. I don't see the big deal.
The big deal is that the roommate has no idea how those rooms got to be that way (is it something the landlord did? Landlord approved colors? Extra deposit type stuff? Bad decision by hated former roommate?), and that as the leaseholder, the OP is responsible for all the rooms being white when he/she moves out. It's one thing to know you have this responsibility and make the decision to paint, with the consequences in mind. It's another thing to move into a space that someone else is legally on the hook for and just paint when they're away without even bothering to find out if it was cool, and what might need to be done before moving out. I mean, how hard is that? It's a two minute conversation.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:11 PM on September 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
Man, does anyone read the responses? The roommate apparently had no idea that she could paint if that was painted over. She's not on the original lease, either, so that doesn't even necessarily apply to her, since as a subletter she may have a more restrictive lease entirely. Anything that's not explicit in it should be clarified before she paints her room, allows her SO to move in, gets a pet, &c. She doesn't know who or when the other painted rooms got to be that way, so why would she just assume she can paint her room? As far as the idea that adults don't have to ask about these things, most adults have no problem saying, "hey, I'm going to paint my room if that's okay... just want to make sure there are no landlord issues and that none of the roommates have paint sensitivities."
My room is painted and so is the living room. So she walked into a space that was already painted and also painted her space. I don't see the big deal.
The big deal is that the roommate has no idea how those rooms got to be that way (is it something the landlord did? Landlord approved colors? Extra deposit type stuff? Bad decision by hated former roommate?), and that as the leaseholder, the OP is responsible for all the rooms being white when he/she moves out. It's one thing to know you have this responsibility and make the decision to paint, with the consequences in mind. It's another thing to move into a space that someone else is legally on the hook for and just paint when they're away without even bothering to find out if it was cool, and what might need to be done before moving out. I mean, how hard is that? It's a two minute conversation.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:11 PM on September 13, 2010 [4 favorites]
She's 21? She may have no idea that being able to paint a rented space isn't SOP. I've known a lot of people that went ahead and painted rentals without checking their lease or checking with the landlord first; it wasn't even on their radar that many landlords don't allow it. University age, they haven't lived on their own before, they don't know to ask. I think a subletter doing that is rather more clueless than most, but hey, she's 21. I'd err on giving her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't think it through, kindly let her know your expectations, and just be aware this is a sign other issues like this may come up later on, so you might want to take the opportunity for some more in-depth discussion if you haven't already (like no pets, household standards, etc.).
Yeah, I think she should've asked first. But it's done already, and you have to live with her. I think you're within your rights to ask for a painting deposit, but it'll likely create bad feelings no matter how nicely put; no one likes a scolding, however gentle, and no one likes to be embarrassed, so it will probably make her defensive (after all, the landlord doesn't care, it's okay in the end, etc.). And again, you have to live with her, so I'd probably just let it go and resign myself to knowing I'll probably have to paint it back myself. Bonus if I don't. Really, you're probably going to be lucky if she cleans the room before she leaves.
posted by flex at 3:55 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Yeah, I think she should've asked first. But it's done already, and you have to live with her. I think you're within your rights to ask for a painting deposit, but it'll likely create bad feelings no matter how nicely put; no one likes a scolding, however gentle, and no one likes to be embarrassed, so it will probably make her defensive (after all, the landlord doesn't care, it's okay in the end, etc.). And again, you have to live with her, so I'd probably just let it go and resign myself to knowing I'll probably have to paint it back myself. Bonus if I don't. Really, you're probably going to be lucky if she cleans the room before she leaves.
posted by flex at 3:55 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I personally think that she should have asked you what the landlord's policy on painting is before she did it. I can't imagine NOT doing that.
I don't know if there's much you can do now, but for future roomies I would recommend creating some sort of subleasing document signed by you, the roomie, and possibly also the landlord that just states that the roomie is aware of and will abide by all relevant terms of the lease. I currently have a subletter and that is what we did.
posted by naoko at 4:06 PM on September 13, 2010
I don't know if there's much you can do now, but for future roomies I would recommend creating some sort of subleasing document signed by you, the roomie, and possibly also the landlord that just states that the roomie is aware of and will abide by all relevant terms of the lease. I currently have a subletter and that is what we did.
posted by naoko at 4:06 PM on September 13, 2010
When I was that young, not only did I not know a) I couldn't paint whenever and wherever I wanted in my "own" space, I didn't realize that b) it would take multiple coats of white paint to cover a dark color.
A friendly conversation where you explain both a and b would probably be a great idea. There may be other things she doesn't realize that she has to think about, now that she's an adult.
Maybe even three coats of white paint to cover the gray. And a primer (so to speak) on the difference between cheap paint and quality paint, and good and bad brush technique, might be a good idea too.
posted by amtho at 4:16 PM on September 13, 2010
A friendly conversation where you explain both a and b would probably be a great idea. There may be other things she doesn't realize that she has to think about, now that she's an adult.
Maybe even three coats of white paint to cover the gray. And a primer (so to speak) on the difference between cheap paint and quality paint, and good and bad brush technique, might be a good idea too.
posted by amtho at 4:16 PM on September 13, 2010
Coming in to this late, but...
I think this could be rather easily handled with a couple fairly simple comments. Just sort of a double-take chatty thing when you walk past the room -- "huh. That's quite a look" or "wow, how long did that take" or "I've always wondered how you keep paint from getting on the ceiling" or whatever, something that says that you're not all flaily about the color as it is at this precise second.
Then when that's established, then just a simple, "so, just FYI, I think the lease says that everything has to be white again before everyone moves out, but...that's not until whenever, so cool," and you're done.
Then if she says she's moving out way before you do -- like, a year before you -- then when she says she's moving out, just a reminder about the painting and there you go. If you're all moving out the same time, then you all get to have a "hey, let's all chip in on the white paint so we can re-paint everything, and hey, maybe let's get pizza and beer and invite a bunch of people" party. But it needn't be a huge deal.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:41 PM on September 13, 2010
I think this could be rather easily handled with a couple fairly simple comments. Just sort of a double-take chatty thing when you walk past the room -- "huh. That's quite a look" or "wow, how long did that take" or "I've always wondered how you keep paint from getting on the ceiling" or whatever, something that says that you're not all flaily about the color as it is at this precise second.
Then when that's established, then just a simple, "so, just FYI, I think the lease says that everything has to be white again before everyone moves out, but...that's not until whenever, so cool," and you're done.
Then if she says she's moving out way before you do -- like, a year before you -- then when she says she's moving out, just a reminder about the painting and there you go. If you're all moving out the same time, then you all get to have a "hey, let's all chip in on the white paint so we can re-paint everything, and hey, maybe let's get pizza and beer and invite a bunch of people" party. But it needn't be a huge deal.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 4:41 PM on September 13, 2010
She needn't have asked permission, but it feels a little dicky to me that she didn't even so much as mention it offhandedly.
posted by turgid dahlia at 6:00 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by turgid dahlia at 6:00 PM on September 13, 2010
I believe that she should have checked with you first.
I'm shocked--shocked!--that some consider it normal just to go ahead and paint without (1) giving all roommates a heads-up (2) checking it's ok by looking at the lease or talking to the landlord or landlord's agent. In this case both (1) and (2) can be accomplished with a 30 second conversation with you.
To me, painting without talking to you first shows a troubling lack of awareness regarding how her actions affect other people and an off-putting sense of entitlement. It's a red flag. If I were in your shoes, this action would make me wary of future transgressions, and I'd suddenly become much less easy-going about things like late rent.
Sara C.: Being the person with the name on the lease means nothing wrt stuff like painting or changing fixtures.
It means the OP signed a legal contract in which he agreed to do and not do certain things, which may or may not include painting or changing fixtures. It also means that the OP is 100% liable for all damages caused by both himself and by his subtenant. That's hardly nothing.
posted by kprincehouse at 6:44 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm shocked--shocked!--that some consider it normal just to go ahead and paint without (1) giving all roommates a heads-up (2) checking it's ok by looking at the lease or talking to the landlord or landlord's agent. In this case both (1) and (2) can be accomplished with a 30 second conversation with you.
To me, painting without talking to you first shows a troubling lack of awareness regarding how her actions affect other people and an off-putting sense of entitlement. It's a red flag. If I were in your shoes, this action would make me wary of future transgressions, and I'd suddenly become much less easy-going about things like late rent.
Sara C.: Being the person with the name on the lease means nothing wrt stuff like painting or changing fixtures.
It means the OP signed a legal contract in which he agreed to do and not do certain things, which may or may not include painting or changing fixtures. It also means that the OP is 100% liable for all damages caused by both himself and by his subtenant. That's hardly nothing.
posted by kprincehouse at 6:44 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
If she's 21, I'd give her the benefit of the doubt and go with clueless about security deposit rules. Just explain about the room needing to be repainted and ask her to buy some white primer now. She can store in her closet and be good to go when she plans to move out. Otherwise I'd be a bit worried about hearing "I don't have the money" when she needing every penny for a new place later.
posted by stray thoughts at 7:12 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by stray thoughts at 7:12 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
If i'm correct, you are her landlord, if she signed a subletting agreement with you. If her name is not on the lease, she has no legal obligation to repaint - you do. So yes, she should have asked. But also, you should have gotten her name on the lease. As it stands, she could do whatever the hell she wanted to that apartment, leave, and you will be 100% liable.
posted by Kololo at 7:17 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by Kololo at 7:17 PM on September 13, 2010
Did she pay you a security deposit? Did your sublease with her stipulate that she can not use the security deposit as her last month's rent? If not, remedy those two things right quick. Also, tell her that it's fine that she painted her room (because it is, according to the lease) but she'll need to paint it back X shade of white when she leaves or her security deposit will be forfeit. And put it in writing.
Moving into an apartment that already had painted areas would definitely make me assume that I could paint my space as well, and a conversation about it being an "adult" apartment would reinforce that. In fact, this is exactly what happened in an apartment that I lived in some years ago, and the people in question were older than 21.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 7:51 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
Moving into an apartment that already had painted areas would definitely make me assume that I could paint my space as well, and a conversation about it being an "adult" apartment would reinforce that. In fact, this is exactly what happened in an apartment that I lived in some years ago, and the people in question were older than 21.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 7:51 PM on September 13, 2010 [1 favorite]
then when she says she's moving out, just a reminder about the painting and there you go.
I also like to think the above would be enough, but seriously: check with the landlord now about what the lease/sub-lease situation says about her security deposit and any damages, and make sure there's something in writing now, *before* she says she's moving out, about how the repainting will be handled.
You don't have to be mean about it - "Hey, you know, we should probably formalize some of this stuff so it's easy all around when we all go our separate ways" works just fine - but I'll just reiterate that it's Basic Smart Roommateness to get all the paperwork squared away early on, especially if the new roommate is a stranger to you. There are plenty of horror stories in the archives here from folks who didn't sort this stuff out at the beginning and had to deal with the consequences later. Don't be that person. Make sure you and she and the landlord all have the same understanding of how the money angle of this new relationship is going to work.
Then be friends. :)
posted by mediareport at 8:44 PM on September 13, 2010
I also like to think the above would be enough, but seriously: check with the landlord now about what the lease/sub-lease situation says about her security deposit and any damages, and make sure there's something in writing now, *before* she says she's moving out, about how the repainting will be handled.
You don't have to be mean about it - "Hey, you know, we should probably formalize some of this stuff so it's easy all around when we all go our separate ways" works just fine - but I'll just reiterate that it's Basic Smart Roommateness to get all the paperwork squared away early on, especially if the new roommate is a stranger to you. There are plenty of horror stories in the archives here from folks who didn't sort this stuff out at the beginning and had to deal with the consequences later. Don't be that person. Make sure you and she and the landlord all have the same understanding of how the money angle of this new relationship is going to work.
Then be friends. :)
posted by mediareport at 8:44 PM on September 13, 2010
Here's the good news: you go out and buy a gallon or two of Killz, and you'll be able to cover that dark color in one coat*, and then paint it properly white. So you're not in too much trouble.
If I were you, I wouldn't stress about it right now. However, at some point (if you haven't already), you'll have to determine how much notice the roommate will give you before leaving, and when discussing that, you can mention "oh, and painting over that dark color will take a couple of coats of Killz before painting it white, so we'd better kick that off as soon as you give notice." Then forget about it until they give notice, then remind them to get the Killz and get started (offer to help, too, because you're a nice person, right?)
If you've already had that negotiation on notice before leaving, just bring up the Killz/repaint thing when they give notice. Offer to help, and let 'em know that Killz covers well but is harder to paint and smells bad, so they should plan to sleep in the living room for a few days.
posted by davejay at 9:49 PM on September 13, 2010
If I were you, I wouldn't stress about it right now. However, at some point (if you haven't already), you'll have to determine how much notice the roommate will give you before leaving, and when discussing that, you can mention "oh, and painting over that dark color will take a couple of coats of Killz before painting it white, so we'd better kick that off as soon as you give notice." Then forget about it until they give notice, then remind them to get the Killz and get started (offer to help, too, because you're a nice person, right?)
If you've already had that negotiation on notice before leaving, just bring up the Killz/repaint thing when they give notice. Offer to help, and let 'em know that Killz covers well but is harder to paint and smells bad, so they should plan to sleep in the living room for a few days.
posted by davejay at 9:49 PM on September 13, 2010
She should have asked permission, but she did not, which means she is either a immature, a bit of a flake, self-absorbed, or all three.
Also, I would disagree with this assessment, not because she isn't any or all of those things (who knows?) but because a roommate -- even one not on the larger lease -- is reasonable if they expect their room to be theirs, and not subject to oversight or approval. You wouldn't expect your roommate to get your approval for their furniture arrangement or window coverings, would you? Assume the best, that she'll be responsible when the time comes, and don't sweat it. She's just making it her own.
posted by davejay at 9:51 PM on September 13, 2010
Also, I would disagree with this assessment, not because she isn't any or all of those things (who knows?) but because a roommate -- even one not on the larger lease -- is reasonable if they expect their room to be theirs, and not subject to oversight or approval. You wouldn't expect your roommate to get your approval for their furniture arrangement or window coverings, would you? Assume the best, that she'll be responsible when the time comes, and don't sweat it. She's just making it her own.
posted by davejay at 9:51 PM on September 13, 2010
oh, and the best time to paint a room is when you're roommate isn't around. you can blast music, strip naked or near-naked, run a fan to pump out the fumes, and the other person doesn't feel obligated to help, and won't accidentally step in puddled paint. arguably, then, you might reconsider her painting with you not home as her being actively considerate.
posted by davejay at 9:52 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by davejay at 9:52 PM on September 13, 2010
forgot the *: one coat if you're a good, consistent, experienced painter, and/or you don't sweat the small flaws. if you're a perfectionist, you'll need two
posted by davejay at 10:00 PM on September 13, 2010
posted by davejay at 10:00 PM on September 13, 2010
When I was that young, not only did I not know a) I couldn't paint whenever and wherever I wanted in my "own" space, I didn't realize that b) it would take multiple coats of white paint to cover a dark color.
Seconded. No biggie that she painted, just make sure she knows (feel free to phrase it in a "omg the landlord is strict and my ass is on the line" way) that she should figure on needing to apply multiple coats of paint before she moves out or it's a $500 fee (or whatever it is.)
posted by desuetude at 10:02 PM on September 13, 2010
Seconded. No biggie that she painted, just make sure she knows (feel free to phrase it in a "omg the landlord is strict and my ass is on the line" way) that she should figure on needing to apply multiple coats of paint before she moves out or it's a $500 fee (or whatever it is.)
posted by desuetude at 10:02 PM on September 13, 2010
I don't know where you all have lived where you could move into a unit or a room and just start doing whatever you want
The city.
Not only have I only ever lived in a city, I worked for two years in a job where I handled landlords, tenants, leases and apartments. You don't get to move into a space and just start doing whatever you want - I guess I should qualify that with "if you want to see your deposit again" but why would you forfeit an entire month's rent or more? I had a landlord make me come back once because I had switched out the light switch and outlet plates (because hers were nasty) and she wouldn't give me the deposit back until I had switched my nicer, newer plates out for her old nasty ones. I didn't leave them deliberately, I just forgot.
I would still urge the OP to write up a letter saying, "Dear roommate, you are living here until [term]. The lease for this unit prohibits dogs, washing machines and dishwashers, and so please don't bring any of those into the apartment. If you want to paint your room, you will need to repaint it white before you move out, or you won't get your deposit back. You will pay me $X rent by X date every month."
Or you could just assume that she knows this because you said "adult apartment" but if I had a dollar for every person who didn't repaint their place when they moved out I would be rich.
posted by micawber at 8:05 AM on September 14, 2010
The city.
Not only have I only ever lived in a city, I worked for two years in a job where I handled landlords, tenants, leases and apartments. You don't get to move into a space and just start doing whatever you want - I guess I should qualify that with "if you want to see your deposit again" but why would you forfeit an entire month's rent or more? I had a landlord make me come back once because I had switched out the light switch and outlet plates (because hers were nasty) and she wouldn't give me the deposit back until I had switched my nicer, newer plates out for her old nasty ones. I didn't leave them deliberately, I just forgot.
I would still urge the OP to write up a letter saying, "Dear roommate, you are living here until [term]. The lease for this unit prohibits dogs, washing machines and dishwashers, and so please don't bring any of those into the apartment. If you want to paint your room, you will need to repaint it white before you move out, or you won't get your deposit back. You will pay me $X rent by X date every month."
Or you could just assume that she knows this because you said "adult apartment" but if I had a dollar for every person who didn't repaint their place when they moved out I would be rich.
posted by micawber at 8:05 AM on September 14, 2010
Response by poster: Thank you for all the GREAT responses.
After reading everything-I am indeeded adding some additional items to our sublease (security deposit, painting,...etc)
posted by duddes02 at 1:13 PM on September 14, 2010
After reading everything-I am indeeded adding some additional items to our sublease (security deposit, painting,...etc)
posted by duddes02 at 1:13 PM on September 14, 2010
When I was that young, not only did I not know a) I couldn't paint whenever and wherever I wanted in my "own" space, I didn't realize that b) it would take multiple coats of white paint to cover a dark color.
Also, where is she from? Rentals in the northwest, for instance, seem pretty mellow about the painting thing. Rentals elsewhere, not so much.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:18 PM on December 10, 2010
Also, where is she from? Rentals in the northwest, for instance, seem pretty mellow about the painting thing. Rentals elsewhere, not so much.
posted by small_ruminant at 1:18 PM on December 10, 2010
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posted by muddgirl at 1:16 PM on September 13, 2010