Ok to ask?
August 31, 2010 8:32 PM Subscribe
If I'm invited to a cocktails only and dancing wedding reception, may I ask to bring a date?
I was recently invited to a wedding for a friend from college, and the rsvp does not indicate a choice for a plus one.
Background on the relationship with the bride-to-be: we were good friends for about 4 years, then I moved to a different city. A few years later the couple (I know the groom-to-be too, but not as well) moved to the same city, and she and I hung out a couple times in the last year. We are both so busy we haven't been able to make it a more frequent occurrence, though we always express to each other that we'd like to hang out more. We both have different circles whom we hang with more frequently.
So on to my question. I really want to go but I won't know anyone at the reception besides the couple (it doesn't appear that other college friends were invited, based on her facebook page..probably because they aren't in the same city as us). Plus, I know that one of grooms best friends saw a picture of me on facebook and is "interested". I am not interested, because I am dating someone else, but its only been a month and so it hasn't come up yet to my friend. I would really like to bring him to the reception, a) so I'm not awkwardly solo and vulnerable to the groomsmen's advances and b) I like my new guy so much and I think we'd have a blast dancing.
I'm not saying I'll just show up with him, but I'm wondering if its appropriate to ask if I may bring my guy. If it were a dinner wedding I wouldn't even think of asking, because I know how expensive they are,..BUT since its just cocktails, is it more casual and acceptable to bring a date? Since they didn't know I have been seeing so one, I have know idea if they would have made it "plus 1" or not had they known. She is such a sweet girl and a romantic, so I feel like she would love for me to bring a date..but maybe the groom or their parents want to keep it tight. gah!
I was recently invited to a wedding for a friend from college, and the rsvp does not indicate a choice for a plus one.
Background on the relationship with the bride-to-be: we were good friends for about 4 years, then I moved to a different city. A few years later the couple (I know the groom-to-be too, but not as well) moved to the same city, and she and I hung out a couple times in the last year. We are both so busy we haven't been able to make it a more frequent occurrence, though we always express to each other that we'd like to hang out more. We both have different circles whom we hang with more frequently.
So on to my question. I really want to go but I won't know anyone at the reception besides the couple (it doesn't appear that other college friends were invited, based on her facebook page..probably because they aren't in the same city as us). Plus, I know that one of grooms best friends saw a picture of me on facebook and is "interested". I am not interested, because I am dating someone else, but its only been a month and so it hasn't come up yet to my friend. I would really like to bring him to the reception, a) so I'm not awkwardly solo and vulnerable to the groomsmen's advances and b) I like my new guy so much and I think we'd have a blast dancing.
I'm not saying I'll just show up with him, but I'm wondering if its appropriate to ask if I may bring my guy. If it were a dinner wedding I wouldn't even think of asking, because I know how expensive they are,..BUT since its just cocktails, is it more casual and acceptable to bring a date? Since they didn't know I have been seeing so one, I have know idea if they would have made it "plus 1" or not had they known. She is such a sweet girl and a romantic, so I feel like she would love for me to bring a date..but maybe the groom or their parents want to keep it tight. gah!
Here's the word from Emily Post:
Invitations are addressed only to those who are invited. If the invitation says “Ms. Mary Smith,” only Mary is invited. If the invitation says “Ms. Mary Smith and Guest,” then Mary may bring a guest of her choosing. When Mary replies to the invitation, she should say, “I am delighted to join you for dinner on the thirteenth. I will be bringing my good friend Jim Alcott.”
Almost as rude as the people who show up with uninvited guests are those who try to bully the hosts into making exceptions.
posted by cecic at 8:43 PM on August 31, 2010 [5 favorites]
Invitations are addressed only to those who are invited. If the invitation says “Ms. Mary Smith,” only Mary is invited. If the invitation says “Ms. Mary Smith and Guest,” then Mary may bring a guest of her choosing. When Mary replies to the invitation, she should say, “I am delighted to join you for dinner on the thirteenth. I will be bringing my good friend Jim Alcott.”
Almost as rude as the people who show up with uninvited guests are those who try to bully the hosts into making exceptions.
posted by cecic at 8:43 PM on August 31, 2010 [5 favorites]
You don't know the financials. Perhaps they have to pay by the head and that's why they invited you without a plus one even though it's cocktails only. If you asked and they couldn't accomodate your date, they might feel bad and that would suck. Go solo or don't go is my advice.
posted by inturnaround at 8:47 PM on August 31, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by inturnaround at 8:47 PM on August 31, 2010 [3 favorites]
Agreeing with both the above: when my now-wife and I were sending out invites, we listed who we wanted to come, and added "plus one" or somesuch if we knew someone might have a plus one to bring with.
Ask, don't assume.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:47 PM on August 31, 2010
Ask, don't assume.
posted by filthy light thief at 8:47 PM on August 31, 2010
Their venue might have a limit on the number of people who can fit. They might want to keep it small. They might be trying to set you up. There is still a cost for a cocktail and dancing reception, and they might prefer to pay only for people they know.
For whatever reason, your invitation did not include a guest. That was probably not a mistake. Don't be That Person. Either go alone or send your regrets.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 8:48 PM on August 31, 2010 [8 favorites]
For whatever reason, your invitation did not include a guest. That was probably not a mistake. Don't be That Person. Either go alone or send your regrets.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 8:48 PM on August 31, 2010 [8 favorites]
No. You are a guest, you cannot ask to bring a further guest that they do not know. Had this been acceptable, it would have stated as such on the invitation.
posted by meerkatty at 8:51 PM on August 31, 2010
posted by meerkatty at 8:51 PM on August 31, 2010
Unfortunately, you cannot ask for another person. However, let your friend know that you have a boyfriend and to pass the word. Avoids any advances by anyone.
posted by Ironmouth at 8:53 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by Ironmouth at 8:53 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
I concur with Ms. Post on this one.
If you're not going to know anyone there and are going to be trolled on by a groomsman, uh... well, if that bugs you enough to not want to put up with that, then don't go. It doesn't sound like you're besties with this chick anyway at this point that she'll sorely miss you if you don't come.
But bugging a B&G if you can bring a date to a wedding is... generally really super awkward for the B&G financially and socially. They probably have pretty limited funds if it's just a cocktail wedding, or they may run into the fun of "Well, if SHE brings a date, everyone else wants to bring a date," or they may just not want total strangers who don't know them at a wedding, and the fact that you asked makes them sound like jerks if they don't want to say yes.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:54 PM on August 31, 2010
If you're not going to know anyone there and are going to be trolled on by a groomsman, uh... well, if that bugs you enough to not want to put up with that, then don't go. It doesn't sound like you're besties with this chick anyway at this point that she'll sorely miss you if you don't come.
But bugging a B&G if you can bring a date to a wedding is... generally really super awkward for the B&G financially and socially. They probably have pretty limited funds if it's just a cocktail wedding, or they may run into the fun of "Well, if SHE brings a date, everyone else wants to bring a date," or they may just not want total strangers who don't know them at a wedding, and the fact that you asked makes them sound like jerks if they don't want to say yes.
posted by jenfullmoon at 8:54 PM on August 31, 2010
I think it would be okay to call them up and say "Hey, just making sure if I could RSVP for a guest or not." and if they say "Sorry, no, the invitation was only for you." apologize profusely/respond without any unhappy undertones something "Oh, no problem, I just wanted to make sure!" and state how happy you will be to see them and how happy you are for them to be getting married. Then go and fend off the groomsmen and text your new beau about all of the ridiculous things going on at the reception.
Or just go alone. Definitely don't bring someone along uninvited.
posted by that girl at 8:55 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
Or just go alone. Definitely don't bring someone along uninvited.
posted by that girl at 8:55 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
My option definitely hinges on your ability to make it sound like you are asking for confirmation/out of curiosity, and not even hinting at "really I wanted to take X but since I can't I'm really put out and won't come". If you won't go if you have to go alone, don't ask.
posted by that girl at 8:57 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by that girl at 8:57 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
I would ask, but be sure to phrase it like you think it's an imposition on them. Ask like you're asking for a favor, because you are.
When mrs. gauche handed out some of our invitations, one of her friends asked if she could bring a boy she had been seeing for about a month. At the time, we were worried about fitting my very large family into our modest budget and the fire code for our venue. Mrs. gauche explained this to her friend and her friend did not take it particularly well.
It ended up fine, but based on that experience I would sound out your friend first and be delicate about it. Know that, as others have pointed out, you are deviating from the rules of etiquette even to ask, and be willing to smile and say, "no problem! I totally understand and I'm still looking forward to sharing your special day!" if you don't get a yes.
posted by gauche at 8:59 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
When mrs. gauche handed out some of our invitations, one of her friends asked if she could bring a boy she had been seeing for about a month. At the time, we were worried about fitting my very large family into our modest budget and the fire code for our venue. Mrs. gauche explained this to her friend and her friend did not take it particularly well.
It ended up fine, but based on that experience I would sound out your friend first and be delicate about it. Know that, as others have pointed out, you are deviating from the rules of etiquette even to ask, and be willing to smile and say, "no problem! I totally understand and I'm still looking forward to sharing your special day!" if you don't get a yes.
posted by gauche at 8:59 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
Normally, I agree with the others that say you can't just invite strangers. However, since this is apparently a rather casual and inexpensive affair and since you won't know anyone, it wouldn't hurt to ask. Be gracious and give them an out but I think it's probably not going to be a big deal in this case.
As a side note, I'm kind of sensitive to my single friends and adding a +1 might feel presumptuous on my part. If I don't think they're dating anyone, I don't want to make it seem like they have to come up with a date. Or to make them feel bad if they don't have a plus-one to bring. So, that's another take on it.
posted by amanda at 9:00 PM on August 31, 2010
As a side note, I'm kind of sensitive to my single friends and adding a +1 might feel presumptuous on my part. If I don't think they're dating anyone, I don't want to make it seem like they have to come up with a date. Or to make them feel bad if they don't have a plus-one to bring. So, that's another take on it.
posted by amanda at 9:00 PM on August 31, 2010
This is incredibly rude. You don't know the details of who they invited, or the payment scheme for the wedding. It is their wedding, not your date. You have no idea how the'll take it. Sure, maybe they'll be cool about it, but are you prepared for the possibility that they'll be incredibly pissed, even internally? Is the bride a guesser and you asking will make her feel like she has to say yes even if she really, really wants to say no? What about the groom? It's really just not ok.
posted by brainmouse at 9:04 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by brainmouse at 9:04 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
Somewhere around half of people think it's just fine to ask at a casual-seeming affair as long as you do so politely and are willing to take no for an answer. The other half, following formal etiquette, think it's terribly rude to ask and will think poorly of you if you do. Do you know which group your friend falls into? If not, I'd err on the side of caution and assume she's part of the latter group.
posted by decathecting at 9:06 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by decathecting at 9:06 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
I'm with those that say ask, but be very considerate in asking. Ms. Post is generally correct in these circumstances but it easily could be a case where it was assumed you didn't have anyone else to bring and they didn't want you to have to scramble to bring a (sympathy) date.
If I was in your shoes of not knowing anyone else I'd likely attend the wedding in solidarity with the couple but would skip the reception.
posted by edgeways at 9:10 PM on August 31, 2010
If I was in your shoes of not knowing anyone else I'd likely attend the wedding in solidarity with the couple but would skip the reception.
posted by edgeways at 9:10 PM on August 31, 2010
It'd be a bit cold to invite you specifically to a dancing reception and forbid you from bringing a date. Surely some couples are invited, and you'd be left out of this. They probably assumed you didn't have an extra person, per filthy light thief's experience. Just ask and be aware of the above comments.
posted by John Cohen at 9:16 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by John Cohen at 9:16 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
You can't ask explicitly.
But you can make a point of getting together with her and let it come up naturally in conversation that you're seeing someone really great. Then the ball is in her court.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:17 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
But you can make a point of getting together with her and let it come up naturally in conversation that you're seeing someone really great. Then the ball is in her court.
posted by LobsterMitten at 9:17 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
Just ask if you can bring a guest. There's really no harm in it. She could always say no. Be prepared for that, and maybe even let her know that no is a perfectly okay option with you.
Or since she's on there, you might update your Facebook status to "in a relationship" if it isn't already.
The last wedding I attended, I was paired with one of the groomsmen and my boyfriend couldn't attend. That groomsman kept trying to dance with me and make conversation but I don't think he realized how awkward it was (I don't dance with strange men, only boyfriend or close friends). I understand how you feel. I was invited with a +1 but there really isn't harm in asking.
These etiquette rules and such can be remainders of a time when things were incredibly stiff. if your friend is traditional, then maybe she subscribes to that stiffness, but maybe she's calm and flexible.
posted by cmgonzalez at 9:23 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
Or since she's on there, you might update your Facebook status to "in a relationship" if it isn't already.
The last wedding I attended, I was paired with one of the groomsmen and my boyfriend couldn't attend. That groomsman kept trying to dance with me and make conversation but I don't think he realized how awkward it was (I don't dance with strange men, only boyfriend or close friends). I understand how you feel. I was invited with a +1 but there really isn't harm in asking.
These etiquette rules and such can be remainders of a time when things were incredibly stiff. if your friend is traditional, then maybe she subscribes to that stiffness, but maybe she's calm and flexible.
posted by cmgonzalez at 9:23 PM on August 31, 2010 [1 favorite]
our wedding had a full dinner -- and I would have been more upset if one of my friends had NOT asked to bring a date if they would otherwise be alone and uncomfortable. Ask.
posted by jb at 9:37 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by jb at 9:37 PM on August 31, 2010 [2 favorites]
I think it's fine to ask, but with the caveat that you should explicitly say it's absolutely fine if the answer is no and you don't want them going to any trouble to fit him in. And then be gracious if the answer is no.
Honestly, I find the trend of not allowing +1s to be really demeaning to single people. I'll give some people a pass if they have a large group of mutual friends that are also attending, but I find it very rude that a couple wouldn't want their guests to enjoy themselves. We aren't all social butterflies that can make friends with 200 strangers at the drop of a hat. I realize that weddings are expensive, but you know what else is expensive? Attending weddings. Between the dress, the sometimes multiple presents, usually a hotel room, a plane ticket and thats not even getting into bachelorette parties, engagement parties, and showers. And then you all have kids we buy a million presents for and babysit for. It's basic consideration for your guests to give a +1.
posted by whoaali at 10:09 PM on August 31, 2010 [9 favorites]
Honestly, I find the trend of not allowing +1s to be really demeaning to single people. I'll give some people a pass if they have a large group of mutual friends that are also attending, but I find it very rude that a couple wouldn't want their guests to enjoy themselves. We aren't all social butterflies that can make friends with 200 strangers at the drop of a hat. I realize that weddings are expensive, but you know what else is expensive? Attending weddings. Between the dress, the sometimes multiple presents, usually a hotel room, a plane ticket and thats not even getting into bachelorette parties, engagement parties, and showers. And then you all have kids we buy a million presents for and babysit for. It's basic consideration for your guests to give a +1.
posted by whoaali at 10:09 PM on August 31, 2010 [9 favorites]
Ok by whose standards?
We're back to the Ask vs. Guess culture thing. If the bride is an Ask culture person, sure, she won't mind a humble request that she can easily blow off. Do you know for sure that she is?
If she isn't, you'll have put her in a very uncomfortable spot of having to deny your heartfelt request or having to fit your S.O. in, and then to explain to other people why you were allowed to bring one.
Brides have a lot of stuff dumped at their door prior to weddings; bridesmaids quarrels, irrational family demands, dumb questions that anybody else could have answered with half a moment's thought etc. I guarantee you won't be the only person asking the bride to change the number of guests, the seating schedule etc. etc. For you, it's a small thing. For her it might be the 100.000th small thing messing with her dream day, that can drive her absolutely nuts.
You don't know, so I'd advise you to err on the side of etiquette.
You are going to the wedding to honour the bride and groom and show them you love them. If going solo is too much of a chore to pull this off, don't go.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:35 AM on September 1, 2010 [5 favorites]
We're back to the Ask vs. Guess culture thing. If the bride is an Ask culture person, sure, she won't mind a humble request that she can easily blow off. Do you know for sure that she is?
If she isn't, you'll have put her in a very uncomfortable spot of having to deny your heartfelt request or having to fit your S.O. in, and then to explain to other people why you were allowed to bring one.
Brides have a lot of stuff dumped at their door prior to weddings; bridesmaids quarrels, irrational family demands, dumb questions that anybody else could have answered with half a moment's thought etc. I guarantee you won't be the only person asking the bride to change the number of guests, the seating schedule etc. etc. For you, it's a small thing. For her it might be the 100.000th small thing messing with her dream day, that can drive her absolutely nuts.
You don't know, so I'd advise you to err on the side of etiquette.
You are going to the wedding to honour the bride and groom and show them you love them. If going solo is too much of a chore to pull this off, don't go.
posted by Omnomnom at 2:35 AM on September 1, 2010 [5 favorites]
Properly, no, you absolutely can't ask for an additional invitation to a wedding.
The only way I'd even think of making an exception is if you're aware that she's invited other not-so-close friends and guys/gals they've been dating for a short time, and thus, would likely have invited your guy if she knew about him. And even then, I'd suggest finding a way to make her absolutely aware of the fact that you have a guy and hope she extends an invitation to him (probably not a formal, written one, more of a 'ooh, I didn't know you had a boyfriend, bring him to the wedding, I want to meet this man') rather than actually asking.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:52 AM on September 1, 2010
The only way I'd even think of making an exception is if you're aware that she's invited other not-so-close friends and guys/gals they've been dating for a short time, and thus, would likely have invited your guy if she knew about him. And even then, I'd suggest finding a way to make her absolutely aware of the fact that you have a guy and hope she extends an invitation to him (probably not a formal, written one, more of a 'ooh, I didn't know you had a boyfriend, bring him to the wedding, I want to meet this man') rather than actually asking.
posted by jacquilynne at 4:52 AM on September 1, 2010
You can have fun dancing with your new boyfriend on your own dime. A wedding is really supposed to be a celebration of the couple, not just an opportunity to have a date on someone else's tab.
I also don't think that the presence of someone who might be interested in you is a good reason to bring a date. Seriously? Presumably you are an adult and have handled this before. Do you take a protective man along with you everywhere there might be someone who thinks you're cute?
posted by LittleMissCranky at 5:02 AM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
I also don't think that the presence of someone who might be interested in you is a good reason to bring a date. Seriously? Presumably you are an adult and have handled this before. Do you take a protective man along with you everywhere there might be someone who thinks you're cute?
posted by LittleMissCranky at 5:02 AM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you aren't good enough friends with the bride for her to know and remember that you would want to bring a guest and thereby add "guest" to the invite, you don't know her well enough to ask.
You have to assume that they've already given your presence as much consideration as they can (because assuming anything less is unkind of you), and they just can't afford the possibility of you bringing a guest either through limited money or limited space. If they could afford it, it would say very unambiguously "guest" on the invite.
If you think they are intentionally setting you up as date-less despite knowledge that you might want to bring someone of your own so someone else can hit on you.... that is information you can use for more analysis than just whether or not to attend the wedding.
But, no, you can't ask; it's not about you, it's about them. Accept the offer as made or don't go.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:34 AM on September 1, 2010
You have to assume that they've already given your presence as much consideration as they can (because assuming anything less is unkind of you), and they just can't afford the possibility of you bringing a guest either through limited money or limited space. If they could afford it, it would say very unambiguously "guest" on the invite.
If you think they are intentionally setting you up as date-less despite knowledge that you might want to bring someone of your own so someone else can hit on you.... that is information you can use for more analysis than just whether or not to attend the wedding.
But, no, you can't ask; it's not about you, it's about them. Accept the offer as made or don't go.
posted by seanmpuckett at 5:34 AM on September 1, 2010
I think it depends on your relationship with the Bride. Given that you know practically no one and there is dancing involved, it's not brain surgery to think you might want to bring a date. I'm not saying she *didn't* consider this when making out invitations -- I've planned a wedding and I'm saying *it might not have crossed her mind.*
Also, this is classic ask versus guess in a way. I am an "ask" so I would not be offended by your asking (and people did ask for my wedding, and I gently told a few people no, and it wasn't an international incident). It seems to me from your question that you can ask with the full knowledge that she may say no and you are okay with that. The question that none of us can answer is about her personal temperament when it comes to this sort of thing.
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:49 AM on September 1, 2010
Also, this is classic ask versus guess in a way. I am an "ask" so I would not be offended by your asking (and people did ask for my wedding, and I gently told a few people no, and it wasn't an international incident). It seems to me from your question that you can ask with the full knowledge that she may say no and you are okay with that. The question that none of us can answer is about her personal temperament when it comes to this sort of thing.
posted by Medieval Maven at 5:49 AM on September 1, 2010
I also don't think that the presence of someone who might be interested in you is a good reason to bring a date. Seriously? Presumably you are an adult and have handled this before. Do you take a protective man along with you everywhere there might be someone who thinks you're cute?
I agree. Ask the bride about bringing a date or don't, but don't just do it to have someone around to "protect" you from this other guy.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:39 AM on September 1, 2010
I agree. Ask the bride about bringing a date or don't, but don't just do it to have someone around to "protect" you from this other guy.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:39 AM on September 1, 2010
Response by poster: Wow, some of you have managed to make me feel incredibly bad about this :P
Yes, I know its not *my* day, and if I did ask and she replied "no" (presumably because of finances), I would understand and still go pay my respects. On the chance that they arent so cash strapped and simply didn't want to make us singles feel pressure to bring a date (I know thats something I would worry about if I sent invites), is the only reason I'm thinking of asking.
I just think with my guy there it would be a fun time, and without him would be awkward and lonely, and I *believe* that the couple would rather their guests have fun. As far as the groom's friend, a couple of months ago (when I wasn't dating my current guy) the groom facebooked me and said "hey my friend 'blank' thinks you're cute..we should all hang out sometime!" and I was like, "I know, its been so long since we've hung out"..and naturally it didn't end up happening.
For the snarky comments about me needing "protection" from my guy, its not like that. Of course I can fend off advances myself. I've been to plenty of family weddings solo, but that's different because there is family to hang with. But its like this: the wedding is too far to take a cab, but not far enough that its worth staying in a hotel alone. So that means I'll drive, so I can't drink, and since I'm not drinking and not comfortable dancing with strangers, I'm just going to be standing around like a wallflower. But I WILL suck it up and do it, because I am honored to be invited.
Thanks to those of you that answered without snark. I'll wait a few weeks and then feel it out with the bride, you know, see how stressed she is, try and get together before the wedding, casually mention I'm seeing someone etc..who knows, maybe a lots of invited guests can't make it and she'd be happy to add one more to the party? Would mean another gift at least!
posted by hellameangirl at 9:13 AM on September 1, 2010
Yes, I know its not *my* day, and if I did ask and she replied "no" (presumably because of finances), I would understand and still go pay my respects. On the chance that they arent so cash strapped and simply didn't want to make us singles feel pressure to bring a date (I know thats something I would worry about if I sent invites), is the only reason I'm thinking of asking.
I just think with my guy there it would be a fun time, and without him would be awkward and lonely, and I *believe* that the couple would rather their guests have fun. As far as the groom's friend, a couple of months ago (when I wasn't dating my current guy) the groom facebooked me and said "hey my friend 'blank' thinks you're cute..we should all hang out sometime!" and I was like, "I know, its been so long since we've hung out"..and naturally it didn't end up happening.
For the snarky comments about me needing "protection" from my guy, its not like that. Of course I can fend off advances myself. I've been to plenty of family weddings solo, but that's different because there is family to hang with. But its like this: the wedding is too far to take a cab, but not far enough that its worth staying in a hotel alone. So that means I'll drive, so I can't drink, and since I'm not drinking and not comfortable dancing with strangers, I'm just going to be standing around like a wallflower. But I WILL suck it up and do it, because I am honored to be invited.
Thanks to those of you that answered without snark. I'll wait a few weeks and then feel it out with the bride, you know, see how stressed she is, try and get together before the wedding, casually mention I'm seeing someone etc..who knows, maybe a lots of invited guests can't make it and she'd be happy to add one more to the party? Would mean another gift at least!
posted by hellameangirl at 9:13 AM on September 1, 2010
I'll wait a few weeks and then feel it out with the bride, you know, see how stressed she is, try and get together before the wedding, casually mention I'm seeing someone etc..
Sounds good. (The earlier you do it, the more flexible the bride will persumably still be, so don't wait too long!)
posted by Omnomnom at 10:27 AM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Sounds good. (The earlier you do it, the more flexible the bride will persumably still be, so don't wait too long!)
posted by Omnomnom at 10:27 AM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Good heavens, etiquette is a guide to behavior, not a license to wound. A cocktails and dancing reception may very well have room for you to bring a date, and you may ask politely. They may say 'no' or 'yes' politely. If I were to add a date to a wedding reception, I'd add a bit of sparkle to my gift, just because.
posted by theora55 at 2:14 PM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by theora55 at 2:14 PM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
Just to address whoaali's comment, if you invite 15 single friends to a wedding and they assume +1 without telling you, and the hotel ballroom or whatever is booked at $150/head and the couple have chosen a premium liquor service over serving dinner because of that...
That's $2,250 the B&G have to come up with so you can *believe* the couple would rather their guests have fun, you guys. Nice places DO perform a head count during the reception. I just booked one myself, since I'm getting married in November.
And as a onetime bride who was barred from entering her own reception by the catering company until I found my checkbook and wrote a $500 check JUST TO COVER TWO WEDDING CRASHERS, that fucking sucked. (I've been married before and am trying to have a small, fun, PRIVATE wedding this time. Some moments, I feel like I've become the negotiating diplomat in some politically unstable territory.)
Apologies if you're already budgeting 4 grand for your wedding outfit, gifts to the couple, plane tickets, etc. but I've been a bridesmaid 15 times and I know how much that stuff adds up. Even serving in 4 different weddings a year, I never spent that much!
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:15 PM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
That's $2,250 the B&G have to come up with so you can *believe* the couple would rather their guests have fun, you guys. Nice places DO perform a head count during the reception. I just booked one myself, since I'm getting married in November.
And as a onetime bride who was barred from entering her own reception by the catering company until I found my checkbook and wrote a $500 check JUST TO COVER TWO WEDDING CRASHERS, that fucking sucked. (I've been married before and am trying to have a small, fun, PRIVATE wedding this time. Some moments, I feel like I've become the negotiating diplomat in some politically unstable territory.)
Apologies if you're already budgeting 4 grand for your wedding outfit, gifts to the couple, plane tickets, etc. but I've been a bridesmaid 15 times and I know how much that stuff adds up. Even serving in 4 different weddings a year, I never spent that much!
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:15 PM on September 1, 2010 [1 favorite]
OP, I am assuming your budget for attending this wedding is minimal based on the fact that you're in the same city and haven't mentioned getting an extravagant gift, serving in the wedding party, helping throw or even attend the bachelorette party and aren't required to buy a new outfit.
If these factors are true, and you bring a date, all I'm saying is you could cost the bride and groom more than you're spending and it's OK for you to ask, casually, but not get OMG OUTRAGED if you do have to choose between going solo or skipping it.
You're not besties with these folks, they will deal. Just seriously don't get hurt or act put out if they say no, they are stressing already, I promise you.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:20 PM on September 1, 2010
If these factors are true, and you bring a date, all I'm saying is you could cost the bride and groom more than you're spending and it's OK for you to ask, casually, but not get OMG OUTRAGED if you do have to choose between going solo or skipping it.
You're not besties with these folks, they will deal. Just seriously don't get hurt or act put out if they say no, they are stressing already, I promise you.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:20 PM on September 1, 2010
all I'm saying is you could cost the bride and groom more than you're spending and it's OK for you to ask, casually, but not get OMG OUTRAGED if you do have to choose between going solo or skipping it.
If that's all you're saying, I don't know why it was necessary for you to leave a late-to-the-party comment when she made it very clear in her follow-up:
If that's all you're saying, I don't know why it was necessary for you to leave a late-to-the-party comment when she made it very clear in her follow-up:
Yes, I know its not *my* day, and if I did ask and she replied "no" (presumably because of finances), I would understand and still go pay my respects.posted by John Cohen at 9:46 PM on September 1, 2010
John Cohen: Because so many of these wedding question threads never mention the actual costs involved, just emotional outrage going wildly one direction or another based on only one person's perspective of the situation (i.e, the guest invited).
I thought it would be helpful to add information that, based on the bride's reply after the discussion happens, would explain possible unknown costs and other factors to the OP that are not typically laid out to wedding guests... mostly because society says that it's rude to mention those things, like how much you're spending on each guest/drink/hour/whatever.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:53 PM on September 1, 2010
I thought it would be helpful to add information that, based on the bride's reply after the discussion happens, would explain possible unknown costs and other factors to the OP that are not typically laid out to wedding guests... mostly because society says that it's rude to mention those things, like how much you're spending on each guest/drink/hour/whatever.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 9:53 PM on September 1, 2010
Unicorn on the cob: who said anything about "crashing." My point is that if you invite a guest they deserve a +1 whether that's their spouse or someone of their choosing to accompany them. They should include in the RSVP, by the date specified, whether they are bringing a guest. If they fail to RSVP that they are bringing someone they should come alone, but they should always be given the option on the original invitation. This has nothing to do with wedding crashers and I don't know what in my comment would make you believe it did.
posted by whoaali at 10:11 PM on September 1, 2010
posted by whoaali at 10:11 PM on September 1, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks John and whoaali.
Unicorn, where have I shown an inch of OMG OUTRAGE? I'm trying to do the right thing here, to AVOID a rude situation. Thats why I asked the question. I'm dumb about this stuff I guess, because I haven't had much experience. Sorry to offend you. This is only my second pair of friends to get married, and in the first friends wedding I had a lot of friends there so I didn't mind going solo.
Being the second commenter who said I won't be missed if I don't go, why was I invited then? I'm now wondering if it was just a pity invite and maybe I shouldn't even go :(
posted by hellameangirl at 11:40 AM on September 2, 2010
Unicorn, where have I shown an inch of OMG OUTRAGE? I'm trying to do the right thing here, to AVOID a rude situation. Thats why I asked the question. I'm dumb about this stuff I guess, because I haven't had much experience. Sorry to offend you. This is only my second pair of friends to get married, and in the first friends wedding I had a lot of friends there so I didn't mind going solo.
Being the second commenter who said I won't be missed if I don't go, why was I invited then? I'm now wondering if it was just a pity invite and maybe I shouldn't even go :(
posted by hellameangirl at 11:40 AM on September 2, 2010
Ugh, sorry, I didn't mean to derail this. I wanted to put in some cost-analysis information, not offend everybody. Whoaali, the part I was specifically addressing was your insistence that it was demeaning to single people to not be automatically allowed a +1 and that attending the wedding was just as expensive for someone invited as paying for that guest to attend on the part of the bride and groom, which I see as a logical fallacy, unless all the costs are transparent.
And I'm not trying to make ANYONE feel bad - I just wanted to lay out some logistics, since people take things on such an emotional level in regards to weddings. And that people in past AskMes have been super-offended by being invited to a wedding and not allowed a guest. (in fact, last year I was an attendant at a wedding and my fiance was not allowed to attend because the room only held 50 people - so he waited in the bar nearby until some of the couple's family members left; then he was allowed into the reception. This is a fact, and while it was awkward it was not intended to be offensive to my fiance, but a matter of practicality, which we both dealt with as best we could.)
so, in short, I'm shutting up now.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 1:47 PM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
And I'm not trying to make ANYONE feel bad - I just wanted to lay out some logistics, since people take things on such an emotional level in regards to weddings. And that people in past AskMes have been super-offended by being invited to a wedding and not allowed a guest. (in fact, last year I was an attendant at a wedding and my fiance was not allowed to attend because the room only held 50 people - so he waited in the bar nearby until some of the couple's family members left; then he was allowed into the reception. This is a fact, and while it was awkward it was not intended to be offensive to my fiance, but a matter of practicality, which we both dealt with as best we could.)
so, in short, I'm shutting up now.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 1:47 PM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
Have you considered just declining the invitation since you don't think you would have much fun anyway?
posted by NHlove at 3:04 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by NHlove at 3:04 PM on September 2, 2010
Apologies to whooali again, but I wanted to add one more thing: the "crashers" I mentioned were un-rsvp'd "guests" of single people I invited. They weren't random people who showed up, but actual guests brought by single people who didn't mention they were bringing anybody and decided to do so after they'd sent in the reply card.
And neither of the crashers was an actual DATE; one was a female friend of a gay guest and the other was someone's roommate who I couldn't stand.
These people brought their unmentioned +1 people specifically because they felt they wouldn't know enough people at the wedding. If that isn't germane to this topic, forgive me, but based on comments like "not everybody can make friends with 200 people at the drop of a hat", I felt I was justified in my comment but should have been clearer.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:11 PM on September 2, 2010
And neither of the crashers was an actual DATE; one was a female friend of a gay guest and the other was someone's roommate who I couldn't stand.
These people brought their unmentioned +1 people specifically because they felt they wouldn't know enough people at the wedding. If that isn't germane to this topic, forgive me, but based on comments like "not everybody can make friends with 200 people at the drop of a hat", I felt I was justified in my comment but should have been clearer.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 3:11 PM on September 2, 2010
Unicorn on the cob: I think you entirely missed my point. It isn't demeaning to single people because the cost of attending a wedding is on par with the amount of money to host them (sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't), it's demeaning to single people because the cost of a single person with a +1 is exactly the same as a non single person + their spouse, fiance, live in partner. Sure sometimes you might be friends with both parties, but I bet you are generally much better friends with one of them and if is wasn't for that person their spouse/fiance/partner would probably not make the cut. However, it is FAR rarer for someone to not allow a non single person to bring their significant other and basically now standard to not give a single person a +1.
The idea that single people are just these odds and ends that should "just not come because you won't be missed anyway" if they want to bring a guest is just awful. No one would ever say that about someone wanting to bring their spouse.
I also really don't see what your situation with the crashers has anything to do with single people deserving a +1. Of course the ultimate call of whether someone comes to a wedding should be up to the couple, I just think the gracious thing is to always give a single person the option of inviting someone. Of course it was horribly rude for your guests to bring to "crashers" to your wedding without first asking you, but it also would have been horribly rude if a married person had RSVP'd that their spouse couldn't make it and then showed up with them.
Thinking that everyone deserves a +1 is NOT the same thing as thinking it is ok to just defiantly showing up with at a wedding with an uninvited and unannounced guest. I'm sorry that happened at your wedding, but it might have been avoided if you had given all your guests a +1 in the first place.
posted by whoaali at 3:39 PM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
The idea that single people are just these odds and ends that should "just not come because you won't be missed anyway" if they want to bring a guest is just awful. No one would ever say that about someone wanting to bring their spouse.
I also really don't see what your situation with the crashers has anything to do with single people deserving a +1. Of course the ultimate call of whether someone comes to a wedding should be up to the couple, I just think the gracious thing is to always give a single person the option of inviting someone. Of course it was horribly rude for your guests to bring to "crashers" to your wedding without first asking you, but it also would have been horribly rude if a married person had RSVP'd that their spouse couldn't make it and then showed up with them.
Thinking that everyone deserves a +1 is NOT the same thing as thinking it is ok to just defiantly showing up with at a wedding with an uninvited and unannounced guest. I'm sorry that happened at your wedding, but it might have been avoided if you had given all your guests a +1 in the first place.
posted by whoaali at 3:39 PM on September 2, 2010 [4 favorites]
I would like to underscore everything that whoaali just said. People should offer a +1 to any single guest, as a matter of courtesy. If that's too expensive, it's your fault for planning an expensive wedding. You are a host; it is your responsibility to make sure that your guests are comfortable. If you don't wish to be offer hospitality, get married alone with just your witnesses, parents and/or children there and don't have a party. Why should weddings an exception to being a good host? The guest/host responsibilities seem to get reversed, where the guests are there to serve the hosts.
(Restrictions on venue size is the only exception to this rule, in my mind, and even then only if the single people will have a group that they know).
posted by jb at 9:33 PM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
(Restrictions on venue size is the only exception to this rule, in my mind, and even then only if the single people will have a group that they know).
posted by jb at 9:33 PM on September 2, 2010 [1 favorite]
To the OP: please do ask if you can bring your boyfriend. When I got married, I was pressured by my family not to put a +1 on the invitations because they claimed that then people would feel oblidged to find a date. I did insist on a +1 for the people I knew did not know many other people; one friend brought his mother (which was lovely, as we got on well). But I told everyone else (who were in a gang) that if anyone had a date they would like to bring, to please tell me so, and I was glad when one did.
posted by jb at 9:36 PM on September 2, 2010
posted by jb at 9:36 PM on September 2, 2010
I want to repeat that the conventional etiquette answer to this question is: you cannot ask directly.
Conventional etiquette is based on treating others as if they are from "Guess" culture -- which means you don't put others in the position of having to say "no" to you, especially on matters that might be related to money, if you can possibly avoid it. Instead, the way that Guess culture handles this is for you (or a mutual friend) to float the relevant information past the bride (you're seeing someone seriously, he loves dancing) and let her connect the dots.
It's possible there is some constraint you're unaware of, maybe a financial constraint, maybe a family constraint, that makes a +1 a bigger burden than you realize, and if you knew about it (being the considerate friend you are) you would never ask in the first place. But if the bride is from Guess culture, and you ask her directly (even if you say "of course it's fine to say no"), you'll be putting her in a very awkward spot where she may feel that she has to explain some of the behind-the-scenes stuff that she may be ashamed of etc to you. Of course, if she's an Ask culture person, she will be fine saying no if she has to. But conventional etiquette errs on the side of "don't put Guess culture people into awkward situations".
It would be great if single people standardly got +1 on invitations, but they don't (again, according to conventional etiquette) and that's not the core issue here. The core issue is, given the situation as it stands can you ask directly or merely hint. Unless you KNOW your friend is an Ask culture person, I think you cannot ask directly (even with a disclaimer about how "it's really fine to say no" because such disclaimers cannot override the training of a Guess culture person). You can only hint or get a third party to hint.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:12 PM on September 2, 2010
Conventional etiquette is based on treating others as if they are from "Guess" culture -- which means you don't put others in the position of having to say "no" to you, especially on matters that might be related to money, if you can possibly avoid it. Instead, the way that Guess culture handles this is for you (or a mutual friend) to float the relevant information past the bride (you're seeing someone seriously, he loves dancing) and let her connect the dots.
It's possible there is some constraint you're unaware of, maybe a financial constraint, maybe a family constraint, that makes a +1 a bigger burden than you realize, and if you knew about it (being the considerate friend you are) you would never ask in the first place. But if the bride is from Guess culture, and you ask her directly (even if you say "of course it's fine to say no"), you'll be putting her in a very awkward spot where she may feel that she has to explain some of the behind-the-scenes stuff that she may be ashamed of etc to you. Of course, if she's an Ask culture person, she will be fine saying no if she has to. But conventional etiquette errs on the side of "don't put Guess culture people into awkward situations".
It would be great if single people standardly got +1 on invitations, but they don't (again, according to conventional etiquette) and that's not the core issue here. The core issue is, given the situation as it stands can you ask directly or merely hint. Unless you KNOW your friend is an Ask culture person, I think you cannot ask directly (even with a disclaimer about how "it's really fine to say no" because such disclaimers cannot override the training of a Guess culture person). You can only hint or get a third party to hint.
posted by LobsterMitten at 10:12 PM on September 2, 2010
Response by poster: I'm not sure if shes a guess person or ask person,..come to think of it I'm not sure what I am either :P How does one figure that out?
I did email the bride-to-be yesterday and asked if she needed any help with wedding stuff or just wanted to hang out, and she said she would love to hang out. Soooo, I'm sure when we will hang it will come up that I'm seeing someone (it would anyway, despite this "date" conundrum) so I guess if she doesn't say "omigosh, you should bring him to the wedding!" or "are you bringing him?" then I'll just accept that I'm going solo.
In response to nhlove, I will go anyway, because I want to see the wedding ceremony (most of my friends are cynical about marriage, so its a bit of a novelty to actually see some friends tie the knot!) and also I want to bring them a gift. If the reception proves to be too uncomfortable, I will leave early..I figure since its not a dinner thing, this will be easy to do without being noticed.
I'll be sure to update, since these wedding threads generate so much interest..I had no idea! :)
posted by hellameangirl at 10:15 AM on September 3, 2010
I did email the bride-to-be yesterday and asked if she needed any help with wedding stuff or just wanted to hang out, and she said she would love to hang out. Soooo, I'm sure when we will hang it will come up that I'm seeing someone (it would anyway, despite this "date" conundrum) so I guess if she doesn't say "omigosh, you should bring him to the wedding!" or "are you bringing him?" then I'll just accept that I'm going solo.
In response to nhlove, I will go anyway, because I want to see the wedding ceremony (most of my friends are cynical about marriage, so its a bit of a novelty to actually see some friends tie the knot!) and also I want to bring them a gift. If the reception proves to be too uncomfortable, I will leave early..I figure since its not a dinner thing, this will be easy to do without being noticed.
I'll be sure to update, since these wedding threads generate so much interest..I had no idea! :)
posted by hellameangirl at 10:15 AM on September 3, 2010
Response by poster: Oh, and I also asked this same question to some co-workers who are married, and got the same spectrum of answers. Guess there is no general consensus on this issue. I gotta admit though, it was interesting to see who of my co-workers were "just ask!" vs the ones who said "don't ask, it'll just stress her out!". The former are more fun and laidback, and the latter are the types who stress over everything.
My friend is a more fun and laidback type, but I don't know about the groom and their parents, who may be covering the finances.
posted by hellameangirl at 10:33 AM on September 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
My friend is a more fun and laidback type, but I don't know about the groom and their parents, who may be covering the finances.
posted by hellameangirl at 10:33 AM on September 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
I gotta admit though, it was interesting to see who of my co-workers were "just ask!" vs the ones who said "don't ask, it'll just stress her out!". The former are more fun and laidback, and the latter are the types who stress over everything.
Interesting. cmgonzalez may have foreshadowed this with her comment:
posted by John Cohen at 2:39 PM on September 5, 2010
Interesting. cmgonzalez may have foreshadowed this with her comment:
These etiquette rules and such can be remainders of a time when things were incredibly stiff. if your friend is traditional, then maybe she subscribes to that stiffness, but maybe she's calm and flexible.Contrary to many of the comments in this thread, there isn't a single universal right answer. It depends on which kind of personality (you assume) you're dealing with.
posted by John Cohen at 2:39 PM on September 5, 2010
I discussed this today with a couple that just got married. They said that seven of their friends who were invited as singles said they would be taking an uninvited plus one. People assumed they were the the laid-back type, and they didn't want to disappoint, or to cause drama with people who feel they are entitled to a plus one. But they were pretty upset that people put them in a difficult situation this way. The increase in cost from an additional seven people was not something they had planned on or could easily afford.
posted by grouse at 4:59 PM on September 5, 2010
posted by grouse at 4:59 PM on September 5, 2010
there isn't a single universal right answer
There is a crystal clear answer given by conventional etiquette, namely that you can't ask directly, for all the reasons outlined above (it could force the bride to explain her private financial/family constraints to you, or to rudely give you a flat 'no' without explanation, or to include your +1 when it puts a bigger burden on her than you realize).
Whether the bride herself subscribes to conventional etiquette is a different question.
The OP knows her friend better than we do, to judge whether the friend will be ok with her asking, as considered in isolation from the question about what conventional etiquette says. For this reason (namely that we can' help her guess whether her specific friend will be ok with it), I took it that the OP was asking what's the conventional etiquette line on this situation. If that's what she was wondering, there's a clearcut answer.
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:22 PM on September 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
There is a crystal clear answer given by conventional etiquette, namely that you can't ask directly, for all the reasons outlined above (it could force the bride to explain her private financial/family constraints to you, or to rudely give you a flat 'no' without explanation, or to include your +1 when it puts a bigger burden on her than you realize).
Whether the bride herself subscribes to conventional etiquette is a different question.
The OP knows her friend better than we do, to judge whether the friend will be ok with her asking, as considered in isolation from the question about what conventional etiquette says. For this reason (namely that we can' help her guess whether her specific friend will be ok with it), I took it that the OP was asking what's the conventional etiquette line on this situation. If that's what she was wondering, there's a clearcut answer.
posted by LobsterMitten at 7:22 PM on September 5, 2010 [2 favorites]
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by phunniemee at 8:39 PM on August 31, 2010