What if I don't pay these traffic tickets?
August 12, 2010 2:16 PM Subscribe
We got three traffic tickets while visiting DC recently. All three were for things that are NOT illegal in our home state. What would happen if I just didn't pay them?
(1) We got a ticket for my wife's expired driver's license (it was expired by 4 days -- we have 90 days to renew in my home state). (2) We got another one for expired registration (it had been expired for about a week - we have 45 days to renew in my home state). (3) Finally we got one for improperly displayed tags because apparently in DC you need to have a Month sticker and a Year sticker (in my home state we only have one sticker with both month and year on it).
So - we were not breaking any laws of our home state, where our car is registered and where my wife's license was given. We believe we were preyed upon because we had out of state plates - or for whatever other reason. The tickets totaled to almost $300.
Assuming we never go back to DC, what would happen if we just didn't pay?
(1) We got a ticket for my wife's expired driver's license (it was expired by 4 days -- we have 90 days to renew in my home state). (2) We got another one for expired registration (it had been expired for about a week - we have 45 days to renew in my home state). (3) Finally we got one for improperly displayed tags because apparently in DC you need to have a Month sticker and a Year sticker (in my home state we only have one sticker with both month and year on it).
So - we were not breaking any laws of our home state, where our car is registered and where my wife's license was given. We believe we were preyed upon because we had out of state plates - or for whatever other reason. The tickets totaled to almost $300.
Assuming we never go back to DC, what would happen if we just didn't pay?
Try writing a letter with copious documentation and sending it in. You have nothing to lose.
Don't not pay.
posted by micawber at 2:23 PM on August 12, 2010
Don't not pay.
posted by micawber at 2:23 PM on August 12, 2010
In New York State you have a full TWO YEARS to renew your expired license with no extra fees/hassle but yes, you'd get a ticket if you were caught driving with the expired license.
The only ticket that I truly think is bogus is the improperly displayed tags one, because you can't manufacture a separate sticker with the month on it if your jurisdiction issues one single sticker with just year/month on it -- that's just absurd. I would contest all of the tickets with the hopes of getting that one dismissed and the others knocked down in price a bit.
posted by kate blank at 2:26 PM on August 12, 2010
The only ticket that I truly think is bogus is the improperly displayed tags one, because you can't manufacture a separate sticker with the month on it if your jurisdiction issues one single sticker with just year/month on it -- that's just absurd. I would contest all of the tickets with the hopes of getting that one dismissed and the others knocked down in price a bit.
posted by kate blank at 2:26 PM on August 12, 2010
I would definitely contest the month and year sticker thing, assuming that what you say here is correct. You were ticketed for not having a sticker that doesn't exist? That doesn't make much sense.
Other than that, I think you may be out of luck. The fact that you're allowed to drive with expired plates and license in your home state doesn't mean you can do it in D.C.
(Why am I getting the feeling that there's more to this story than you're telling us?)
posted by craichead at 2:27 PM on August 12, 2010 [3 favorites]
Other than that, I think you may be out of luck. The fact that you're allowed to drive with expired plates and license in your home state doesn't mean you can do it in D.C.
(Why am I getting the feeling that there's more to this story than you're telling us?)
posted by craichead at 2:27 PM on August 12, 2010 [3 favorites]
As a D.C. resident, I can tell you that our government is lazy about a lot of things, but collecting ticket-related fines is emphatically not one of them.
Be very careful - the late / nonpayment fees are often worse than the original fine, and accumulate quickly. I strongly suspect they'd turn these over for collection, too.
posted by ryanshepard at 2:28 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Be very careful - the late / nonpayment fees are often worse than the original fine, and accumulate quickly. I strongly suspect they'd turn these over for collection, too.
posted by ryanshepard at 2:28 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
What would happen if I just didn't pay them?
Did you read the tickets? Normally they have stern warnings about what terrible fate may befall you if you fail to pay the fine or contest it in court.
I'm not your lawyer, and I know nothing about DC traffic law, but I would urge you to respond appropriately: either pay the fine or contest the charges in court. Don't simply refuse to pay or ignore it. Every jurisdiction I'm familiar with will issue a warrant if you don't pay or manage to get the charge dropped. That's the kind of thing that can turn up on records searches, so it could come back to haunt you even if you never returned to DC.
All three were for things that are NOT illegal in our home state.
This part, by the way, will probably get you basically nowhere, with the possible exception of the license plate tag issue. When you drive in another jurisdiction, you submit to its laws, and ignorance is not an excuse.
posted by jedicus at 2:33 PM on August 12, 2010
Did you read the tickets? Normally they have stern warnings about what terrible fate may befall you if you fail to pay the fine or contest it in court.
I'm not your lawyer, and I know nothing about DC traffic law, but I would urge you to respond appropriately: either pay the fine or contest the charges in court. Don't simply refuse to pay or ignore it. Every jurisdiction I'm familiar with will issue a warrant if you don't pay or manage to get the charge dropped. That's the kind of thing that can turn up on records searches, so it could come back to haunt you even if you never returned to DC.
All three were for things that are NOT illegal in our home state.
This part, by the way, will probably get you basically nowhere, with the possible exception of the license plate tag issue. When you drive in another jurisdiction, you submit to its laws, and ignorance is not an excuse.
posted by jedicus at 2:33 PM on August 12, 2010
Expired is expired. The month/year sticker seems like a non-starter, though. It's like getting a ticket for having your inspection sticker on the lower left of the drivers window (like in PA) because the state your are driving in requires it be displayed at the top of the windshield.
posted by fixedgear at 2:34 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by fixedgear at 2:34 PM on August 12, 2010
The month/year sticker thing just sounds weird to me, because there are a whole lot of people who live in D.C. but have cars that are registered elsewhere. I had a close friend whose dad was in the military, for instance, and they officially lived in Pennsylvania and had Pennsylvania plates. I just don't think D.C. cops are in the habit of pulling people over for the offense of having cars that are registered in a different state. Unless the OP did something to *badly* piss the cop off, I am not sure that I believe that a D.C. cop would ticket someone because they came from a state with a different sticker format.
posted by craichead at 2:38 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by craichead at 2:38 PM on August 12, 2010
If i were you, I'd just pay them, though I do agree that the two sticker thing sounds weird and, if you're right, you could beat it with an appearance but, these aren't moving violations (they won't effect your insurance rates, and the cop knew that). So it might be better (cheaper) to bite the bullet, than to hire a lawyer or go back to DC.
DC cops take themselves very, very seriously. I don't have a problem with that because I think they have a tougher job even than most police do, but aren't paid any better. Because I have such high expectations of them (even though they screw up often), I take them as seriously as they take themselves. I've been pulled over with expired registration and inspection (of less than a month) and not gotten a ticket, and I had DC plates. Maybe, the police person figured you wouldn't contest it, because you were from out of town, but that isn't something they're reputed to do.
posted by Some1 at 3:02 PM on August 12, 2010
DC cops take themselves very, very seriously. I don't have a problem with that because I think they have a tougher job even than most police do, but aren't paid any better. Because I have such high expectations of them (even though they screw up often), I take them as seriously as they take themselves. I've been pulled over with expired registration and inspection (of less than a month) and not gotten a ticket, and I had DC plates. Maybe, the police person figured you wouldn't contest it, because you were from out of town, but that isn't something they're reputed to do.
posted by Some1 at 3:02 PM on August 12, 2010
Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
The third one might have some weight to it, but DC is very inclined to get its tickets paid, and will err on the side of sending you notice after notice until you either pay or formally contest the charges.
posted by quadrilaterals at 3:24 PM on August 12, 2010
The third one might have some weight to it, but DC is very inclined to get its tickets paid, and will err on the side of sending you notice after notice until you either pay or formally contest the charges.
posted by quadrilaterals at 3:24 PM on August 12, 2010
apparently in DC you need to have a Month sticker and a Year sticker (in my home state we only have one sticker with both month and year on it).
Not true. My DC tags have the date on a single sticker.
posted by exogenous at 3:30 PM on August 12, 2010
Not true. My DC tags have the date on a single sticker.
posted by exogenous at 3:30 PM on August 12, 2010
What's the saying, ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it?
The first two you're guilty of. I've never heard that it's legal to drive with an expired license or an expired registration. You may have longer than the date that they expire to renew as opposed to apply for a new one entirely, but I've never heard of any state where it's legal. It may not even be in your state (you neglect to mention what state that may be) and you're just misunderstanding the law.
The last one makes no sense to me, your ticket should say exactly the section and subsection number of whatever code of laws/regulations you violated. You should post that.
If you ignore the tickets you could end up with a bench warrant out for your arrest and worse, I've seen it happen to people with tickets from out of state.
$300 is cheap, don't get any tickets in NY.
posted by Brian Puccio at 3:52 PM on August 12, 2010
The first two you're guilty of. I've never heard that it's legal to drive with an expired license or an expired registration. You may have longer than the date that they expire to renew as opposed to apply for a new one entirely, but I've never heard of any state where it's legal. It may not even be in your state (you neglect to mention what state that may be) and you're just misunderstanding the law.
The last one makes no sense to me, your ticket should say exactly the section and subsection number of whatever code of laws/regulations you violated. You should post that.
If you ignore the tickets you could end up with a bench warrant out for your arrest and worse, I've seen it happen to people with tickets from out of state.
$300 is cheap, don't get any tickets in NY.
posted by Brian Puccio at 3:52 PM on August 12, 2010
The two seperate sticker thing sounds like a Virginia rule (was when I lived there). Were you in a tiny VA town or actually within the DC limits? I think you can argue that one. If you play nicely enough you might get the other fines reduced. Still seems like there's something missing. You could always consult with a lawyer in that area too.
posted by MultiFaceted at 4:24 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by MultiFaceted at 4:24 PM on August 12, 2010
craichead wrote: "The fact that you're allowed to drive with expired plates and license in your home state doesn't mean you can do it in D.C."
If your vehicle is legally registered in your home state, another jurisdiction can't up and decide it's not a valid registration. In my home state, the registration is still valid during the 30 day grace period. Full faith and credit, my friend.
In states I'm familiar with, the law merely requires that your out of state license & registration be valid in your home state.
Of course, we're talking about DC, so who the hell really knows.
posted by wierdo at 5:27 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
If your vehicle is legally registered in your home state, another jurisdiction can't up and decide it's not a valid registration. In my home state, the registration is still valid during the 30 day grace period. Full faith and credit, my friend.
In states I'm familiar with, the law merely requires that your out of state license & registration be valid in your home state.
Of course, we're talking about DC, so who the hell really knows.
posted by wierdo at 5:27 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Section 1401.02 of the DC code reads, in pertinent part:
posted by wierdo at 5:35 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
(a) The owner or operator of any motor vehicle who is not a legal resident of the District of Columbia, and who has complied with the laws of any state, territory, or possession of the United States, or of a foreign country or political subdivision thereof, shall, subject to the provisions of this section, be exempt for a continuous 30 day period immediately following the entrance of such owner or operator into the District of Columbia from compliance with § 50-1401.01 and § 50-1501.02. The 30-day exemption period shall not apply to commercial motor vehicles required to obtain a permit, as provided by § 50-1507.03 or charter busses identified in § 50- 1501.02(j).1401.01 is the requirement that you get a DC driver's license if you live there and 1501.02 is the requirement that you register your vehicle there if you live there. The cop was 100% in the wrong. Now to make the traffic court see it your way..
posted by wierdo at 5:35 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]
Oh, and I should point out that failing to respond to the summons is a crime in and of itself. That the summons should never have been written in the first place does not excuse you from the obligation to answer it.
posted by wierdo at 5:41 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by wierdo at 5:41 PM on August 12, 2010
That the summons should never have been written in the first place does not excuse you from the obligation to answer it.D.C. cops are neither required to know the duration of the grace period for all 50 states nor to take a driver's word for whether his or her state has a grace period. The license said it was expired. The cop did nothing wrong in treating it as expired. If the OP wants to contest the ticket on the grounds of his or her state having a grace period, that's completely legitimate.
For what it's worth, my state has a grace period, but our Department of Transportation website explicitly says that you should renew your license before leaving the state, because outside entities won't necessarily know about the grace period.
posted by craichead at 5:54 PM on August 12, 2010
craichead wrote: "D.C. cops are neither required to know the duration of the grace period for all 50 states nor to take a driver's word for whether his or her state has a grace period. The license said it was expired."
I didn't say they should know every state's law, I just said that the asker was not in violation of the law, thus the ticket should never have been written. Sometimes invalid tickets get written.
posted by wierdo at 6:13 PM on August 12, 2010
I didn't say they should know every state's law, I just said that the asker was not in violation of the law, thus the ticket should never have been written. Sometimes invalid tickets get written.
posted by wierdo at 6:13 PM on August 12, 2010
Also, the asker should visit this link and either mail a response or possibly schedule an online hearing if that's an option.
posted by wierdo at 6:25 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by wierdo at 6:25 PM on August 12, 2010
You don't mention your home state, so you'll want to check to see if DC has reciprocity with your home state. You can find out here.
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 7:45 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 7:45 PM on August 12, 2010
I would also rectify the expired license/registration ASAP. If you send in documentation that you have "fixed" the problem, it may result in the tickets being dismissed. This probably works best if you are standing in the courtroom, but it can't hurt to try.
posted by Stellaboots at 10:19 PM on August 12, 2010
posted by Stellaboots at 10:19 PM on August 12, 2010
To directly answer your question, if you do nothing, worst case scenario is that they set a court date because you didn't respond to the summons. When you fail to appear for the court date, they issue a bench warrant for you. Then that warrant could prevent you from getting a job, or get you arrested the next time you're pulled over for a minor infraction, or prevent you from renewing your license.
posted by craven_morhead at 7:00 AM on August 13, 2010
posted by craven_morhead at 7:00 AM on August 13, 2010
Do DC plates even have a month/year sticker? I think mine just say "see windshield" or something like that.
posted by The Lamplighter at 12:01 PM on August 13, 2010
posted by The Lamplighter at 12:01 PM on August 13, 2010
An expired driver's license is an invalid driver's license. An expired vehicle registration is an invalid registration. DC just happens to penalize these differently from your state.
Would you contest a valid DC speeding ticket on the grounds that ten miles over the limit is fifty dollars cheaper back home?
That said, you can probably get away with ignoring the tickets. Just don't ever get pulled over in DC for the rest of your life, or you'll be going to jail.
posted by gum at 2:44 PM on August 13, 2010
Would you contest a valid DC speeding ticket on the grounds that ten miles over the limit is fifty dollars cheaper back home?
That said, you can probably get away with ignoring the tickets. Just don't ever get pulled over in DC for the rest of your life, or you'll be going to jail.
posted by gum at 2:44 PM on August 13, 2010
gum wrote: "An expired driver's license is an invalid driver's license. An expired vehicle registration is an invalid registration."
You can't make a blanket statement like that without knowing the Asker's state of residence. It is true in some states but not others. My registration is valid until the end of the month after the month of expiration. Kansas registration certificates specifically state on them that no enforcement action may be taken for 30 days after the expiration, just to clue in those officers who don't get it (or don't know).
posted by wierdo at 3:40 PM on August 13, 2010
You can't make a blanket statement like that without knowing the Asker's state of residence. It is true in some states but not others. My registration is valid until the end of the month after the month of expiration. Kansas registration certificates specifically state on them that no enforcement action may be taken for 30 days after the expiration, just to clue in those officers who don't get it (or don't know).
posted by wierdo at 3:40 PM on August 13, 2010
I live in DC, but used to live in Virginia. I have gotten a handful tickets, but the most relevant to your issue (I think) is a ticket I got for having an expired Virginia inspection sticker. The ticket was left on my car while parked, so I didn't have the opportunity to make my case to the cop. I was livid that DC was giving me a ticket for this, and wrote an extremely sarcastic, bitchy letter to the adjudication people talking about state sovereignty and making sure to mention that I was in law school and wouldn't stand for this, etc. Basically just blowing off steam and making myself feel better about inevitably having to pay this ticket.
They granted my appeal.
Since then, I've appealed two parking tickets I've received (one with pictures showing that a sign I missed was totally obscured by a tree, another with pictures of the parking enforcement officer's car illegally parked around the corner from me and saying some shit about judge not, lest ye be judged). Both appeals were granted. I've started taking pictures of illegally parked cop cars all over my neighborhood for future reference.
So I guess my (IANYL; TINLA) advice is: contest the hell out of it. Raise up a big stink, attach copies of your state's statutes, find relevant DC vehicle registration statutes that obviously don't work for out of state residents (e.g., the DC DMV is supposed to send you a notice 30 days before expiration saying your license is expiring, which they didn't do, so how can they ticket you for an expired license?), send pictures of whatever. It will make you feel better, even if you end up having to pay.
posted by jalexc at 11:55 PM on August 13, 2010
They granted my appeal.
Since then, I've appealed two parking tickets I've received (one with pictures showing that a sign I missed was totally obscured by a tree, another with pictures of the parking enforcement officer's car illegally parked around the corner from me and saying some shit about judge not, lest ye be judged). Both appeals were granted. I've started taking pictures of illegally parked cop cars all over my neighborhood for future reference.
So I guess my (IANYL; TINLA) advice is: contest the hell out of it. Raise up a big stink, attach copies of your state's statutes, find relevant DC vehicle registration statutes that obviously don't work for out of state residents (e.g., the DC DMV is supposed to send you a notice 30 days before expiration saying your license is expiring, which they didn't do, so how can they ticket you for an expired license?), send pictures of whatever. It will make you feel better, even if you end up having to pay.
posted by jalexc at 11:55 PM on August 13, 2010
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As far as the renewal grace period, I'm pretty sure (please correct me if I'm wrong) that doesn't make it legal to drive a car with an expired registration with an expired license. It just means you don't have to apply for an ALL NEW registration and/or license.
posted by two lights above the sea at 2:22 PM on August 12, 2010 [1 favorite]