It's another cat health question
August 8, 2010 10:23 AM Subscribe
It's another "What's going on with my cat?" question.. and it seems like a complicated one. Before I go into it, we have taken him to the vet a few times and are not against taking him more, but I'm looking for input from you guys.
Our kitty is 13 years old. This all started a few weeks ago, when he seemed to be having trouble with one of his front legs and started stumbling around. Then he jumped up onto the counter and fell off of it. My mom rushed him to the vet, but by the time he was there he was able to walk just fine. There were no signs of stroke, blood clot, or anything else that would've caused this, so they thought maybe he'd just hurt himself. The vet noted that he had a severe heart murmur, though, and wanted to do further tests. He ended up being diagnosed with pulmonic stenosis. From what I've read online, this is a rare condition in cats. It didn't seem like there's anything we can do about it, so we took the kitty home and move on. They did suggest we give him a tiny, tiny amount of baby aspirin every couple days to prevent blood clots, which they said are common in cats with pulmonic stenosis. So we started doing that.
A couple weeks later (now about three weeks ago), this all happened again, except this time he didn't get off the floor for two days. In the middle of this he was taken to the vet, etc. We thought he was going to die that day. There wasn't anything immediate we could do to really help his condition, but he ended up making a surprising recovery in the following week to the point where he is able to walk again, eats normally, uses the litter pan, purrs when we scratch his chin, and generally seems like himself aside from having poor leg coordination. He is able to jump up to places but can't jump down without landing on his front legs while his back legs fly over his head and he lands on his side, like he's doing a cartwheel. Then he gets up and walks around fine. A little bit drunken looking sometimes, but he gets around.
He is generally in good spirits aside from occasionally seeming frustrated with his limitations. He doesn't seem to be in pain. His pulmonic stenosis seems to be the main problem, and that's untreatable. He does still seem to be improving and definitely seems like he wants to live. I'm asking this here because I know a lot of you are cat owners and even some of you are vets, because some of his residual symptoms are weird and we're trying to avoid making him anymore uncomfortable than he already is by taking him to the vet and subjecting him to more tests.
1) His meows are silent. He opens his mouth at times when he would usually meow, like when we're feeding him, and nothing comes out. He did meow in the days following the second episode as he tried to get off the floor, but since he has managed to start walking again he's got no meow sound.
2) More disturbing is that, since his second episode, he is having violent spasms in his sleep. I know that when cats first fall asleep they'll start to have little paw twitches and things like that, but now he's having full on leg kicks, and they're really strong to the point where he's woken me up when sleeping next to me because he throttled me with his back legs and it hurt. It's so bad that now I'm afraid to have him sleep next to me. It usually starts with his front legs and then eventually his back legs kick out. I watched him doing this yesterday and the legs really kick out with full force and to full extension. While he sometimes sleeps through it, other times it wakes him up.
I'm trying to find out why this might be occurring. Is there somewhere in the kitty brain that might've gotten disabled that would normally keep his sleep movements at bay? I've read about cat seizures, and this doesn't sound like that because he doesn't pee/poop/drool during all this. I know this is kind of a long shot, but I'd appreciate any input from people who've had or known cats that have experienced this, what the causes might be and if there's anything we can do to alleviate it, or even if it might eventually subside if he continues to regain his abilities.
Our kitty is 13 years old. This all started a few weeks ago, when he seemed to be having trouble with one of his front legs and started stumbling around. Then he jumped up onto the counter and fell off of it. My mom rushed him to the vet, but by the time he was there he was able to walk just fine. There were no signs of stroke, blood clot, or anything else that would've caused this, so they thought maybe he'd just hurt himself. The vet noted that he had a severe heart murmur, though, and wanted to do further tests. He ended up being diagnosed with pulmonic stenosis. From what I've read online, this is a rare condition in cats. It didn't seem like there's anything we can do about it, so we took the kitty home and move on. They did suggest we give him a tiny, tiny amount of baby aspirin every couple days to prevent blood clots, which they said are common in cats with pulmonic stenosis. So we started doing that.
A couple weeks later (now about three weeks ago), this all happened again, except this time he didn't get off the floor for two days. In the middle of this he was taken to the vet, etc. We thought he was going to die that day. There wasn't anything immediate we could do to really help his condition, but he ended up making a surprising recovery in the following week to the point where he is able to walk again, eats normally, uses the litter pan, purrs when we scratch his chin, and generally seems like himself aside from having poor leg coordination. He is able to jump up to places but can't jump down without landing on his front legs while his back legs fly over his head and he lands on his side, like he's doing a cartwheel. Then he gets up and walks around fine. A little bit drunken looking sometimes, but he gets around.
He is generally in good spirits aside from occasionally seeming frustrated with his limitations. He doesn't seem to be in pain. His pulmonic stenosis seems to be the main problem, and that's untreatable. He does still seem to be improving and definitely seems like he wants to live. I'm asking this here because I know a lot of you are cat owners and even some of you are vets, because some of his residual symptoms are weird and we're trying to avoid making him anymore uncomfortable than he already is by taking him to the vet and subjecting him to more tests.
1) His meows are silent. He opens his mouth at times when he would usually meow, like when we're feeding him, and nothing comes out. He did meow in the days following the second episode as he tried to get off the floor, but since he has managed to start walking again he's got no meow sound.
2) More disturbing is that, since his second episode, he is having violent spasms in his sleep. I know that when cats first fall asleep they'll start to have little paw twitches and things like that, but now he's having full on leg kicks, and they're really strong to the point where he's woken me up when sleeping next to me because he throttled me with his back legs and it hurt. It's so bad that now I'm afraid to have him sleep next to me. It usually starts with his front legs and then eventually his back legs kick out. I watched him doing this yesterday and the legs really kick out with full force and to full extension. While he sometimes sleeps through it, other times it wakes him up.
I'm trying to find out why this might be occurring. Is there somewhere in the kitty brain that might've gotten disabled that would normally keep his sleep movements at bay? I've read about cat seizures, and this doesn't sound like that because he doesn't pee/poop/drool during all this. I know this is kind of a long shot, but I'd appreciate any input from people who've had or known cats that have experienced this, what the causes might be and if there's anything we can do to alleviate it, or even if it might eventually subside if he continues to regain his abilities.
IDK about the spasms, but my 16-y/o baby just got diagnosed with Idiopathic Vestibular Disorder, which makes for some crazy drunk-walking. It is apparently incredibly common in older cats in the late summer.
Have you had him evaluated for neurologic conditions? God knows there are many, some more serious than others.
Also, photo please?
posted by toodleydoodley at 10:33 AM on August 8, 2010
Have you had him evaluated for neurologic conditions? God knows there are many, some more serious than others.
Also, photo please?
posted by toodleydoodley at 10:33 AM on August 8, 2010
It sounds like your cat is acting neurologic, which would make him/her a good candidate for being looked at by an internal medicine specialist (a cardiologist is in the college of internal medicine, but I would see what an internist had to say first as they will look at the whole picture, not just the heart). I would ask your rdvm to give you a recommendation.
As for diagnosis, or even guesses, over the internet.. well, I'm not going to get into it because I've already been called out for being an ass- if you are worried about your cat and would like to get to the bottom of this, ask for a referral from your vet.
posted by TheBones at 10:45 AM on August 8, 2010
As for diagnosis, or even guesses, over the internet.. well, I'm not going to get into it because I've already been called out for being an ass- if you are worried about your cat and would like to get to the bottom of this, ask for a referral from your vet.
posted by TheBones at 10:45 AM on August 8, 2010
The only thing I can comment on is the silent meowing. I doubt this is the case for yours, but my little guy lost voice a couple months ago. He was also gagging every once in awhile, which was disconcerting. The vet decided the cause of the voice loss was an upper respiratory infection. Again, with his other symptoms it seems like maybe it could be from something else, but if it continues, maybe have him checked for that? They gave us antibiotics and my kitty had his voice back in a week.
posted by itsacover at 10:54 AM on August 8, 2010
posted by itsacover at 10:54 AM on August 8, 2010
There have been reports by the EPA about topical flea applications causing a multitude of problems including issues with coordination, seizures and other medical problems related directly to the toxins in the flea treatments. If you've used any flea treatments on him, you might want to investigate that avenue. Some background on the subject FYI.
posted by watercarrier at 11:32 AM on August 8, 2010
posted by watercarrier at 11:32 AM on August 8, 2010
I've already been called out for being an ass
not an ass, just excessively snarky. But your advice was overall quite sound.
I gave in and took my cat to the vet and you should too, because as TheBones pointed out to me, he could be dangerously ill and you can't tell the difference over the Internet.
posted by toodleydoodley at 11:53 AM on August 8, 2010
not an ass, just excessively snarky. But your advice was overall quite sound.
I gave in and took my cat to the vet and you should too, because as TheBones pointed out to me, he could be dangerously ill and you can't tell the difference over the Internet.
posted by toodleydoodley at 11:53 AM on August 8, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for the advice so far. Basically we already know he's very ill. He spent a few nights at the vet the week this all happened (we had to leave town and there was no other option), so they were able to do quite a lot of observing. I'm not so much looking for online diagnoses as I am for people who've had this sort of thing happen to their own cats- some sort of neurological event that resulted in this sleep-kicking. He did it again about an hour ago, and I was able to watch him the whole time - it pretty much looked like he was trying to catch something, and it involved reaching a front paw out, making some hitting motions, kicking out his back legs as if running or jumping. Then he woke up, ate some food, and came back up on the couch with me to go back to sleep, which is pretty much the pattern when this happens.
We will probably call the vet tomorrow just to see if this is a typical result of whatever exactly happened to him three weeks ago, and if they have any suggestions or advice.
As for the meowing, I was actually able to get a meow out of him after posting this question, as I made myself some tuna salad, and he wanted some of this tuna. :) Three out of four meows were silent, but one of them managed to catch, and it sounded like the same old meow I knew.
We aren't really interested in putting him through anything that may extend his life while making it less enjoyable for him. While he's a fighter, he's always seemed fragile and small, which I figure we now know is a result of the heart problem. But I still don't know if what happened was actually a stroke or if it was something "stroke-like." So hopefully we can find that out. In the meantime I'll still appreciate any input you may have.
posted by wondermouse at 12:55 PM on August 8, 2010
We will probably call the vet tomorrow just to see if this is a typical result of whatever exactly happened to him three weeks ago, and if they have any suggestions or advice.
As for the meowing, I was actually able to get a meow out of him after posting this question, as I made myself some tuna salad, and he wanted some of this tuna. :) Three out of four meows were silent, but one of them managed to catch, and it sounded like the same old meow I knew.
We aren't really interested in putting him through anything that may extend his life while making it less enjoyable for him. While he's a fighter, he's always seemed fragile and small, which I figure we now know is a result of the heart problem. But I still don't know if what happened was actually a stroke or if it was something "stroke-like." So hopefully we can find that out. In the meantime I'll still appreciate any input you may have.
posted by wondermouse at 12:55 PM on August 8, 2010
Try making a video of these problems and putting it on YouTube. This will allow you to show the symptoms to folks far away. Somebody, somewhere has the same problem and has it diagnosed. (I don't know that you'll get much useful help from YouTube chat.) YouTube was helpful to us in diagnosing a cat that had a breathing disorder.
posted by CCBC at 1:30 PM on August 8, 2010
posted by CCBC at 1:30 PM on August 8, 2010
Response by poster: Arg, I just took a video of him doing it and I can't get it to load on this computer. Hopefully I can load it up tonight or tomorrow and I'll post back in here. This most recent time, he had a couple twitches, and then he started frantically reaching with his front paws and galloping with his back paws and, in a split second, propelled himself right off the couch and onto the floor. Then he woke up, stretched his legs, and walked to his food dish and had a bite. So weird.
posted by wondermouse at 1:39 PM on August 8, 2010
posted by wondermouse at 1:39 PM on August 8, 2010
Was his blood sugar checked at all? The description of him being "drunken looking" reminds me of my own cat's diabetic neuropathy. It was my boy's stumbling around and falling over that led to the vet visit where he was diagnosed with diabetes.
posted by booksherpa at 2:40 PM on August 8, 2010
posted by booksherpa at 2:40 PM on August 8, 2010
I think your cat is almost certainly having a series of small stokes secondary to the pulmonic stenosis. The failure of sleep paralysis is hard to explain except as brain damage.
The problem is figuring out whether the stokes are hemorrhagic-- blowing out a blood vessel followed by bleeding into the brain-- or ischemic-- an absence of blood flow to a part of the brain caused by a clot or other factors-- or both.
When an essential blood vessel narrows, the heart will usually respond by pumping as hard as it needs to in order to force blood through the narrowed opening, yet paradoxically, most strokes due to hypertension are ischemic, implying that the circulatory system adapts and perhaps even over-adapts to the hypertension.
Aspirin is associated with hemorrhagic strokes, and from your narrative, it sounds like he's gotten quite a bit worse since you started giving it to him, so I would tend to think he's having hemorrhagic strokes.
But you can't just stop giving it to him without big risk of ischemia.
I would consult with the vet again, perhaps merely by phone, and consider tapering him off the aspirin.
posted by jamjam at 4:28 PM on August 8, 2010
The problem is figuring out whether the stokes are hemorrhagic-- blowing out a blood vessel followed by bleeding into the brain-- or ischemic-- an absence of blood flow to a part of the brain caused by a clot or other factors-- or both.
When an essential blood vessel narrows, the heart will usually respond by pumping as hard as it needs to in order to force blood through the narrowed opening, yet paradoxically, most strokes due to hypertension are ischemic, implying that the circulatory system adapts and perhaps even over-adapts to the hypertension.
Aspirin is associated with hemorrhagic strokes, and from your narrative, it sounds like he's gotten quite a bit worse since you started giving it to him, so I would tend to think he's having hemorrhagic strokes.
But you can't just stop giving it to him without big risk of ischemia.
I would consult with the vet again, perhaps merely by phone, and consider tapering him off the aspirin.
posted by jamjam at 4:28 PM on August 8, 2010
One of my old cats acted like that -- he started walking funny, acting drunk, random yowling, lack of interest in playing, didn't want to go outside, listless, bad judgment in jumping, etc. He was able to meow just fine, purred like crazy, but he also started losing bladder control and finally bit the dust one day on my kitchen floor. This was a one or two month process, and he had been getting visibly worse and worse as time went on. In the end I think what happened was he had a moderate stroke, a series of smaller ones, and then one whopper to finish the job and kick him off to Bast.
As jamjam said, it sounds like your furball may have had a stroke or three. I do not envy you, I never want to go through something like that again.
posted by Heretical at 7:05 PM on August 8, 2010
As jamjam said, it sounds like your furball may have had a stroke or three. I do not envy you, I never want to go through something like that again.
posted by Heretical at 7:05 PM on August 8, 2010
Response by poster: jamjam, I think you're probably right. Also, the vet had us stop giving him aspirin after his stool started to look dark- so yeah, it doesn't seem like it helped him any. We are going to call the vet in the morning and see what he says. Thanks.
posted by wondermouse at 7:10 PM on August 8, 2010
posted by wondermouse at 7:10 PM on August 8, 2010
Damn. I am sorry. It is tough to go through this kind of thing.
posted by CCBC at 10:44 PM on August 8, 2010
posted by CCBC at 10:44 PM on August 8, 2010
Response by poster: Well, we spoke with the vet, and they told us pretty much what jamjam said. They said to document his night-kicking and see if it seems to get any better or worse, and that the lack of meow sound would be a result of the stroke also. I have my doubts that there's anything we can do about this.
I wasn't able to do anything with the video, but here is a picture of the kitty in question. He is a sweetie. :( And that's him just on Saturday after he managed to jump up to a rather high table. He had a great time up there, but eventually I put him on the floor so he wouldn't fall upon jumping down.
posted by wondermouse at 6:12 PM on August 9, 2010
I wasn't able to do anything with the video, but here is a picture of the kitty in question. He is a sweetie. :( And that's him just on Saturday after he managed to jump up to a rather high table. He had a great time up there, but eventually I put him on the floor so he wouldn't fall upon jumping down.
posted by wondermouse at 6:12 PM on August 9, 2010
Beautiful kitty. I'm really sorry all this is happening.
posted by jamjam at 10:28 PM on August 9, 2010
posted by jamjam at 10:28 PM on August 9, 2010
Response by poster: In case anyone checks back here, he is amazingly still alive. He reached a plateau with his recovery, e.g. still has the sleep spasms and walks crooked, but considering what happened he is surprisingly functional. He can even meow again, and he has developed ways of jumping off of things that usually don't result in falling over (he keeps the motion going with his front legs so his hind legs don't have a chance to swing around him). We are very happy to still have him with us.
posted by wondermouse at 5:26 PM on April 26, 2011
posted by wondermouse at 5:26 PM on April 26, 2011
I am happy for you. It is tough to watch a pet suffer and be unable to come up with anything that will help.
posted by CCBC at 12:57 AM on April 29, 2011
posted by CCBC at 12:57 AM on April 29, 2011
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 10:28 AM on August 8, 2010