Should I go to MIT?

March 10, 2005 9:37 AM

I'm currently finishing a MS degree at Georgia Tech. I've been accepted to the GT PhD program, and will probably be accepted at the MIT Media Lab. Should I stay or should I go?

Most people's impulse is "MIT!! DUH!!" but it's a little harder for me than that. I've been here for undergrad since 1995, so I'm pretty settled - I was a Navy brat, so this the longest by far I've ever lived anywhere. In fact I've lived in my current apartment longer than I've ever lived in any other city. I have two roomates who I get along with very well. I have a group of friends who I like, though not as many close friends as would be nice.

On the other hand, MIT! Plus I really like Boston. Also my girlfriend would love to live in Boston - she wants to go to grad school, but isn't interested in any schools in Atlanta, and I would have a hard time asking her to wait 3 or 4 years for me to finish. And long-distance relationships suck.

The work at MIT that I would be involved with is interesting, but so is the work I'm doing now. Going to MIT would mean "starting over" in terms of contacts among faculty, etc, since I'm well-known at GT, but one thing everyone has told me is how many great and interesting people I can meet there.

I love my current advisor. He's been very, very good to me since I started working with him in undergrad. But I'd be working with HIS advisor at MIT, who is probably a similarly nice guy.

Going to MIT would mean doing a second Master's degree (they don't admit you directly to PhD at the Media Lab) which would probably mean at least 1 extra year to finish, and I'm already 27.

How have other people dealt with this kind of decision? I don't feel like either decision is necessarily "wrong" - staying would have a lot of advantages, but so would going.

posted by anjiro to Education (24 answers total)

I don't know if you should stay or you should go, but if I were you, I wouldn't make "Wow, MIT!" a factor in my decision.

It sounds like your biggest reason for wanting to stay is a desire for stability/continuity. That's a good reason, but when your taking this into account remember that by the time you're done a PhD, you may well feel sick of being where you are and feel like you've been stuck there forever. There's a good chance you'll feel like this anywhere you go, but staying in a place you've already been for a number of years may make it all the worse.
posted by duck at 9:56 AM on March 10, 2005

for what it's worth, i regretted staying where i did my undergraduate degree. at least for me, life changed a lot between being an undergrad and a graduate. i was working much more on my own, living more by myself, and my friends had left to get jobs elsewhere. i didn't mind that change, but it felt odd to be living like that in a place where i had lived very much as part of a group, doing things together. also, it was a small town with a large student population, so students dominated the place, and it was annoying having to live amongst so many "children" (not quite the right word, but you get the idea). on preview, there was also a certain feeling of being stuck there forever, as duck says.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:58 AM on March 10, 2005

There are a lot of things to consider, and it seems like you've thought them through pretty thoroughly. Before reading them all, my quick reaction was to go to the other school (regardless of whether it's MIT or Podunk U.) simply expose to a technical culture that is different from what you are used to. When I read that you have two degrees at GT, I felt even moreso that you should move on. So, knee-jerk reaction from me would be to advise to go to MIT.

The emotional pull and adversion to moving you feel that makes you want to stay, from my outsider's perspective, sound like a hurdle you're going to have to cross at one point or another; after being in Georgia for 10 years it might be time to move on.

Project down the road to when you have you're doctorate: If you prefer Georgia, I think it would be possible to relocate back there after getting your degree at MIT. You have roots there. But having gone away for a while, you will probably be more likely to consider other alternatives that may be better in the long run.

If you stay in Georgia, it will be even harder to leave when you get the PhD which may place a limit on your prospects.

Having said all that, only you can really weight the options and decide how much you really want to stay in Georgia at least a few more years.

Whatever you decide, best of luck to you.
posted by Doohickie at 10:05 AM on March 10, 2005

Response by poster: duck: "Wow! MIT!" is more of a shorthand for all the complicated considerations of how MIT will be very, very good for my career (as the potential advisor said, "You do research, we make you famous"), the amazing contacts I will make with astonishingly intelligent people, the amounts of resources available to do my research... so on.

I do worry about feeling stuck, but staying here would probably mean a shorter tenure overall, which seems good. But probably being at MIT would seem shorter just by nature of it being a new environment.
posted by anjiro at 10:08 AM on March 10, 2005

Are there any financial considerations here? Boston is obviously more expensive; do you have any sense of the comparative tuition/fee/scholarship costs/offers for the two? Does either offere the ability to jump into a TA (or, better yet, RA) position in the first year of the program?

Re the second Master's degree - is there some way to minimize the impact (get credit for courses at GT? test out of some courses? take optional courses instead of core courses for which you already know the subject matter?)

Finally, do you have any sense of what you'd do with your PhD (academia? industry?), and how the two degrees would play out regarding that? (For example, an academic position is probably easier to get with a PhD from MIT, if only because of the connections that your professors would have.)
posted by WestCoaster at 10:08 AM on March 10, 2005

Response by poster: Doohickie: I'm not actually in love with Georgia much at all; in fact, I'm absolutely planning on moving after I get my PhD if I stay here. It's more the people and the overall feeling of having roots somewhere that make me want to stay, rather than the place itself. For example, I'd be terribly excited to live in a blue state. =)
posted by anjiro at 10:11 AM on March 10, 2005

Response by poster: WestCoaster: I'll be fully funded with an RA-ship wherever I go. Boston will probably be harder - it's much more expensive to live in, but I think my stipend will rise to reflect that. However, moving is really expensive and I don't have any savings.

The second MS degree is more research than classes; they want you to do a thesis. I was told that if you struggle a bit, they make you do the MS in a more structured way, but otherwise it's a smooth transition from MS to PhD.

I think that simply from a position perspective (I'm ultimately interested in academia), both schools are equivalent. GT's getting a pretty good reputation in the areas I'm interested in, and of course MIT is the gold standard.
posted by anjiro at 10:14 AM on March 10, 2005

Not to sound overly presumptuous, but it seems to me like you're just looking for a little kick in the butt to overcome your current inertia. You're lucky I don't own any steel-toed boots. :)

Even with all the professional, contacts, and girlfriend/Boston advantages aside, there's a very real value to moving on. Even my brother at Caltech was encouraged to go elsewhere instead if he wanted to pursue graduate studies (although um, I don't think they would endorse MIT as enthusiastically, heh), despite Caltech's own sterling reputation. You'll be second-guessing yourself for years to come if you passed on this huge opportunity. So here's a friendly kick in MIT's direction.
posted by DaShiv at 10:20 AM on March 10, 2005

It sounds like you've already made the decision and now you're just having some butterflies around the issue of having to meet new people, socially and professionally. I would say this is pretty common, but really you'll get there any it will work out. There'll be plenty of ways to meet people, some will be dicks and some will be great, just like anywhere else, but not knowing yet who those people will be is never a good excuse not to go. If you stick with that idea then you'd be stuck in one place for the rest of your life. You know this is a great opportunity, now go and make the most if it. (And if it's any help I moved to a new campus 2 months ago and am thoroughly enjoying it.)
posted by biffa at 10:21 AM on March 10, 2005

My professors have always advised me to change schools when possible (between programs, that is). Their justifications for this stem from the belief that it isn't truly possible to get a broad and well-rounded education at only one school. To a certain extend, I agree with this - departments at different schools have different strengths, different institutional cultures, and (importantly) different connections in the academic and business worlds. In other words, by staying at Georgia, you may be missing out on a large piece of the puzzle.

I do appreciate that it's a really truly fantastic feeling to have roots but, speaking from experience, I have to agree with andrew cooke: your friends will most likely move on during the course of your PhD and this can be a frustrating and alienating experience.

[on preview: I agree with DaShiv and biffa.]
posted by lumiere at 10:23 AM on March 10, 2005

Go. It'll expose you to a different set of contacts, personally and professionally. Plus, duh, it's MIT!

And, what's the worst case scenario? You do a master's at MIT and hate it.... and transfer back. I bet they would take you.
posted by dpx.mfx at 10:25 AM on March 10, 2005

anjiro-

I understand what you mean. But let's say you stay at GT and a decent job opens up nearby when you get your degree- you may in the same dilemma you're in now.

I've been out of school for twenty years and we all went our separate ways, yet some of the people I consider my closest friends are those whom I met in college, even though in some cases we don't communicate much more than the annual family Christmas letter. Every once in a while, we have an opportunity to get together and it really is like old times for a few days.

My point is that if you leave GT now, it does not mean you entirely lose the comfort of your current circle of friends.
posted by Doohickie at 10:27 AM on March 10, 2005

Do you plan on teaching after you get your fud or working in "industry?" Where do you want to live afterward if the former? If staying in/returning to GA (& especially at GT), you would almost undoubtedly be better off going to MIT as most academic institutions desire "outside Blood" in their PhD hires. Is it time to get serious about long term commitment/marriage with the GF? Sounds like Boston, to me.
posted by Pressed Rat at 10:34 AM on March 10, 2005

Response by poster: Pressed Rat: I may work in industry for a while, but ultimately I plan on teaching. I won't say I'd never work at GT since things do change, but right now I'm not really interested in living in Georgia (indeed, the south at all!) after I get my PhD. I've only been dating my girlfriend for 4 months, and while we have talked seriously about marriage, I'm trying to keep her as small a factor as possible so if we should break up there won't be resentment.
posted by anjiro at 10:52 AM on March 10, 2005

Just so you know, the general impression of the MIT media lab among academics is that they produce hype and vaporware. It's a lot of flashy stuff that has little scientific merit. (MIT CompSci department has a different rep.) If you go there, be sure to do something substantial.
posted by about_time at 10:56 AM on March 10, 2005

In general, it's usually a good idea to get your PhD at somewhere other than your undergraduate school.

But this isn't something that most of us on AskMe can answer. You need to talk to other people in your discipline. Find people who you respect, or whose work you respect, and ask them for advice even if you don't know them.

*Especially* find people with no or few ties to either GT or MIT to try and get a straighter answer. You want to know about the general reputations of GT's department and the Media Lab from people who aren't at either, didn't go to either, and don't have advisors at either.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:18 AM on March 10, 2005

Congratulations on having so many options! That's an accomplishment. I was a Media Lab grad student 1996-1999 and a few of my colleagues from then were hired by Georgia Tech to be professors after getting their PhD. I'm out of academia now. Here are my thoughts..

My main advice, which is generic: the most important thing for your grad school experience is the relationship with your advisor. This is more important than the department, the reputation of the school, the classes you take, or even the specific work you do. Good advisor = good experience. There are very few good advisors in the world. The second most important thing is the quality of the students, because that's going to be your peer group for the rest of your academic career. Better schools tend to attract better students.

As to the specifics.. I have some thoughts on the Media Lab on my blog. Long story short, I think the Media Lab is a great place to do a Masters, but I'd take a long look at whether you'll get the academic support you need to do a real PhD. Some of the profs there are great, others are not, and the department as a whole lacks intellectual cohesiveness (by design). On the flip side, Georgia Tech is an excellent school that's doing some very interesting things.

As to your concerns about going somewhere new - that's a definite plus to moving on to MIT. The more people you meet, the larger your professional network. And the more you learn about your research field and academia. It's way too easy to get stuck in one place (MIT is full of "lifers"). Avoiding that is a good thing.

Finally, don't underestimate the extra time you think the Media Lab will take you. Grad school is a holding pen. You'll do a lot of great work now, but you won't get the academic or financial benefit of it nearly as much as when you finish the degree. The Media Lab masters program is good and you'll do good work, but it is a solid two years. Getting a PhD out of the Media Lab in less than five years is very unlikely, or at least it was when I was there.
posted by Nelson at 11:23 AM on March 10, 2005

You already have the information you need to make your decision. You want to get a PhD. The institution is largely irrelevant. The main thing that matters is your advisor and your secondary contacts. It sounds as if you would be set for an advisor in either location (your certain you can get funding from your prospective MIT advisor, right?). What about secondary contacts? There is a lot to be said for working in a large lab with lots of people working on lots of different things. I'm only nominally familiar with your field, but I gather there's some good stuff going on in your current lab. Still, the Media Lab is vastly more diverse. Look at the environment you would be working in: which one offers more for what you're interested? Only you can answer this question, not a bunch of unfamiliar folks on the internet.

fwiw, based on what you've said, I'm not sure you can make the wrong decision here.
posted by casu marzu at 11:30 AM on March 10, 2005

Most of my undergrad advisors told me to go to a different school for grad school. In fact, it is standard practice in my field for schools not to accept undergrads into their phd program, though it does happen occasionally.

However, I know MIT media is a great place, but - you may want to talk to people in order to get a reality check on the "you do the research, we make you famous" thing. I worked in a AI research lab at a top 10 school for AI as an undergrad, and the consensus seemed to be that the MIT media lab, with respect to AI, produced much less research of real depth than you'd expect. In fact, this seemed to be the belief in general, beyond just AI work, amongst academics. I don't want to bash the media lab, but it sounds like you have a very glowing picture of it, and to go there and have your expectations shattered would likely be very bad (I've encountered this happening to new grad students to various degrees).

Don't forget that the period where you're deciding on schools, they treat you wonderfully - they are trying to entice you away from all the competition. This honeymoon ends shortly after you go wherever you go. At some schools you may be treated just the same, but in general, the behavior of a school/potential advisors during this period is not a significant predictor of what it would like to be a grad student there.

That said, you will probably do well at either place - as someone else said, getting a masters at MIT and then transferring to some other PhD program is a realistic option too. Good luck!
posted by advil at 12:09 PM on March 10, 2005

Dear Anjro, if you and this lovely specimen did in fact break up, why would it matter if there was resentment? Love, Your Girlfriend
posted by sally_jp at 1:43 PM on March 10, 2005

I'll echo Xenophobe, Nelson and advil above; for good or ill, there's a strong bias against doing your degrees in the same place. Doing so will affect your resume. The assumption is that if you do your degrees in the same place that at best you've had too little exposure to new ideas, at worst that you weren't good enough to get in anywhere else. Not fair, but I've seen it make a difference to hiring and tenure-review boards.

MIT (wow!) is a great option, but your supervisor makes far more difference than your school. They are who will give you your introductions and contacts, which are, like it or not, a major way work gets done in academe (and government labs and industry, etc...). Broadening your base is always good.

Also, doesn't MIT have a move-up option? Many places make you enroll as an MS but let you transfer to a doctorate program in later years without loss of time. This may or may not be formal policy.
posted by bonehead at 1:46 PM on March 10, 2005

"I wouldn't make "Wow, MIT!" a factor in my decision"

duck: People from Georgia Tech don't say "Wow, MIT!" ;-P

anjiro: Get the hell out of Georgia; Delta is ready when you are.

I first moved to the south in 1984, and I have been struggling to get out ever since. Both the geography and the former address work against you. The geography in that the distance from Atlanta to anywhere else is so great that selling your stuff and buying new is cheaper than moving it. The 'former address' in that the hurdle of anti-south bias among employers can be quite high.

Get out now before your presence here becomes a liability.
posted by mischief at 4:07 PM on March 10, 2005

I am finishing up my Ph.D. right now. I grew up in Atlanta, went to grad school in Indiana, currently live in Memphis for the year for my internship (my last doc requirement), and am plotting my own move to Boston this summer. PhDs take a very long time to complete, as you know.

Here's one thing I've learned after studying in one place for a long time (7 years). Graduate programs have biases. The way you are trained will reflect these biases. It isn't until you move to another location that you will start to see your field of study from a new perspective.

It's wonderful that you've had such a positive experience in Atlanta, but I think that to stay in the same lab working for the same professor for a long, long time can be problematic. It limits you, no matter how excellent they are as a researcher/advisor/supervisor/director/etc. Consider the enormous benefit of expanding your horizons into a new realm.

I love Atlanta. I love Boston. Both are wonderful cities. I am biased in the direction of love. If both are good options, and you are in love with your girlfriend, I would seriously consider making the choice that she is also excited about.

Yes, moving is hard. I can't tell you how much effort I'm having to put into finding a job in a place where I essentially had no contacts. It's a lot of work, but I think it will pay off. I lived in Boston for a year in the early 90s, and I've always hoped I could find my way back there, and now I'm taking the bull by the horns.

As for your age, I am 35. I started my PhD when I was 28. Yes, it's a long time, but I don't regret anything about my journey. And hell, 35 isn't nearly as old as I thought it was when I was younger.

Moving for love, especially when you have great prospects yourself, is usually a good idea. The last thing you want is to jeopardize a good relationship when you have perfectly good (perfectly great, actually) options there yourself.

I know it may sound like I am biased towards Boston. It is a wonderful town, but it doesn't have the Varsity. It doesn't have the great weather. I love Atlanta. I spent about 20 years of my life there. Both are great towns, but I say diversity of research experience + making the lady happy make Boston a better option in your situation.
posted by abbyladybug at 4:11 PM on March 10, 2005

Oh, and Atlanta is pretty different from the rest of the South. I grew up there and had total culture shock when I moved here to Memphis. Now I get what people were saying about the South.
posted by abbyladybug at 4:12 PM on March 10, 2005