Security deposit, cleaning fees, and ignorant renters, oh my.
July 21, 2010 12:14 PM Subscribe
Security deposit, cleaning fees, and ignorant renters, oh my. My husband and I are getting ready to move out of our first apartment, and since we don't have prior experience with the move-out cleaning and security deposit experience, we're a little lost.
We talked to our manager today about the move-out procedure and he told us that we'll be charged a $100 cleaning fee to get it professionally cleaned. We asked if we could clean it ourselves and avoid this charge, and he said no, the job wouldn't be good enough.
We also asked about our carpets, and he said he would have to see on the final walk-through their condition before he could tell us if we'd be charged or not. The unit has cheap-o beige carpets that, admittedly, have a few stains, nothing major. We have been here 6 years, so I think a few spots fall under "normal wear and tear" and we were planning on renting a rug shampooer and doing a deep clean before we go. However, I'm worried that they're going to stick us with a professional cleaning fee, or worse--replacing the carpets. In all of the recently vacant apartments, the landlord has torn out the old carpet and linoleum and replaced it with nicer carpet and tile, so I suspect they'll do the same to ours regardless of the condition it's left in. I just don't want to get stuck with that bill!
We are in Los Angeles, CA. I've looked up LA tenant law websites and consulted our lease. Our lease is pretty standard: we need to return the premises in "as good order, condition, and repair as when received, ordinary wear and tear excepted." The unit was in nice, clean shape when we got it.
Like I said, we don't have much experience in these things. Is a post-move cleaning fee totally standard? $100 seems pretty high to me, it's just a 1-bedroom apartment, but maybe it's also standard? Are we better off hiring our own cleaning lady and then showing receipts? (I'm just worried that we'll do this and STILL be stuck with the cleaning fee, because they decide it's "not good enough.") What about carpet cleaning fees? I'm most interested in hearing experiences of other people in LA or similarly priced rental markets. Thanks!
We talked to our manager today about the move-out procedure and he told us that we'll be charged a $100 cleaning fee to get it professionally cleaned. We asked if we could clean it ourselves and avoid this charge, and he said no, the job wouldn't be good enough.
We also asked about our carpets, and he said he would have to see on the final walk-through their condition before he could tell us if we'd be charged or not. The unit has cheap-o beige carpets that, admittedly, have a few stains, nothing major. We have been here 6 years, so I think a few spots fall under "normal wear and tear" and we were planning on renting a rug shampooer and doing a deep clean before we go. However, I'm worried that they're going to stick us with a professional cleaning fee, or worse--replacing the carpets. In all of the recently vacant apartments, the landlord has torn out the old carpet and linoleum and replaced it with nicer carpet and tile, so I suspect they'll do the same to ours regardless of the condition it's left in. I just don't want to get stuck with that bill!
We are in Los Angeles, CA. I've looked up LA tenant law websites and consulted our lease. Our lease is pretty standard: we need to return the premises in "as good order, condition, and repair as when received, ordinary wear and tear excepted." The unit was in nice, clean shape when we got it.
Like I said, we don't have much experience in these things. Is a post-move cleaning fee totally standard? $100 seems pretty high to me, it's just a 1-bedroom apartment, but maybe it's also standard? Are we better off hiring our own cleaning lady and then showing receipts? (I'm just worried that we'll do this and STILL be stuck with the cleaning fee, because they decide it's "not good enough.") What about carpet cleaning fees? I'm most interested in hearing experiences of other people in LA or similarly priced rental markets. Thanks!
We cleaned our corporate apartment-park apartment (in CT) until the carpet sparkled. We still got hit with cleaning fees. I thought the minor rug stain (inside a closet! you needed a flashlight to see it!) wouldn't be a problem, but that was our biggest charge at the end.
I would say to just pay the fee; hiring a cleaning service and then arguing with them isn't worth the effort vs difference in money.
posted by cobaltnine at 12:21 PM on July 21, 2010
I would say to just pay the fee; hiring a cleaning service and then arguing with them isn't worth the effort vs difference in money.
posted by cobaltnine at 12:21 PM on July 21, 2010
FWIW, I paid a professional rug steamer to do the rugs in our last apartment (and it costs hundreds) and we still got charged...
posted by k8t at 12:22 PM on July 21, 2010
posted by k8t at 12:22 PM on July 21, 2010
$100 for a move-out cleaning is cheap.
posted by samthemander at 12:23 PM on July 21, 2010
posted by samthemander at 12:23 PM on July 21, 2010
In my experience -- I've moved in and out of several six month rentals during my snowbirding experience -- it's better to pay the cleaning fee for the reason you mentioned. It's easier for them to tell the cleaners specifically what needs to be done and if it's not done well enough then the cleaner is on the hook, not you.
posted by thorny at 12:24 PM on July 21, 2010
posted by thorny at 12:24 PM on July 21, 2010
Response by poster: Just to clarify: the $100 is separate from whatever carpet cleaning charges we might get hit with. Thanks for the responses so far, keep 'em coming!
posted by Bella Sebastian at 12:31 PM on July 21, 2010
posted by Bella Sebastian at 12:31 PM on July 21, 2010
Any time a landlord requires that they do the cleaning I jump on it. It absolves you of the risk inherent in spending money on cleaning stuff, spending all day cleaning and then maybe still being charged a cleaning fee. $100 is totally worth it.
On the walk-through get a signed copy of the damage assessment so if they try to saddle you with additional costs you can just threaten to take them to small claims court - that usually makes them back off. If you do get that far, your release is solid gold.
posted by jimmythefish at 12:32 PM on July 21, 2010
On the walk-through get a signed copy of the damage assessment so if they try to saddle you with additional costs you can just threaten to take them to small claims court - that usually makes them back off. If you do get that far, your release is solid gold.
posted by jimmythefish at 12:32 PM on July 21, 2010
Some of this should be laid out in the lease you signed, review that document.
posted by HuronBob at 12:42 PM on July 21, 2010
posted by HuronBob at 12:42 PM on July 21, 2010
If you didn't contract on the $100 fee (in the lease), there's no reason you'd have to pay it, but then again it'd be pretty easy for the landlord to ring up more than $100 in miscellaneous cleaning charges (I was once charged for dusty baseboards) he judges necessary to restore the apartment to its original condition. It sounds like a reasonable deal so long as dubious charges are not piled on top of that.
posted by deadweightloss at 12:43 PM on July 21, 2010
posted by deadweightloss at 12:43 PM on July 21, 2010
Read the California Civil Code on landlord tenant relationships. Specifically, pay attention to section 1950.5. Once you notify the landlord in writing of your intent to move out, they must notify you in writing of your right to request an initial inspection of the unit (1950.5(f)). You should request this, and document the state of the apartment with photos, etc, and the list of things they want you to fix. If you fix those things, document before and after, as well as any receipts for professional services or parts.
In the end it doesn't matter what you do, they can keep whatever they want. At that point, if you disagree with what they do, you have to take them to small claims court (which the CCC covers), but I've found a strongly worded letter outlining the issues and citing the appropriate codes will often lead to an acceptable compromise. YMMV and IANAL.
posted by jeffamaphone at 12:45 PM on July 21, 2010
In the end it doesn't matter what you do, they can keep whatever they want. At that point, if you disagree with what they do, you have to take them to small claims court (which the CCC covers), but I've found a strongly worded letter outlining the issues and citing the appropriate codes will often lead to an acceptable compromise. YMMV and IANAL.
posted by jeffamaphone at 12:45 PM on July 21, 2010
I'm in Philadelphia, and I've been in a total of 5 apartments over the years and I've NEVER paid an ounce for cleaning (other than to clean the carpet in one room because our dog made a mess on it). We've always cleaned the apartment we were moving out of to the best of our ability, and then we cleaned the apartment we were moving into. I'm sure tons of people do it the same way, so getting the place cleaned for $100 (that sounds like a lot to me to clean an empty 1-br apartment) seems like major overkill.
Also, I don't understand why they'd charge you for something they need to do for the next tenant. Just like painting the walls after a tenant moves out, that's something (in my experience) that the landlord should accept as part of his/her responsibility. That's not to say that you shouldn't do your best to clean it, but they can't expect you to get it back to new again, or close to it, after even a year. Ridiculous. You are liable for any damages beyond wear and tear, but nothing more. At least, that's the law in Philadelphia.
posted by two lights above the sea at 12:49 PM on July 21, 2010
Also, I don't understand why they'd charge you for something they need to do for the next tenant. Just like painting the walls after a tenant moves out, that's something (in my experience) that the landlord should accept as part of his/her responsibility. That's not to say that you shouldn't do your best to clean it, but they can't expect you to get it back to new again, or close to it, after even a year. Ridiculous. You are liable for any damages beyond wear and tear, but nothing more. At least, that's the law in Philadelphia.
posted by two lights above the sea at 12:49 PM on July 21, 2010
Not your lawyer and all that-
For $100 I probably wouldn't fight it, if that $100 means you don't have to do any cleaning and then you won't have to fight it with him. If you can't spare the $100, show him the lease language and ask him to justify the $100 cleaning fee - the lease doesn't say it has to be professionally cleaned. I'd get a written document from him that the $100 is the only cleaning fee he's charging.
Take a ton of photos. Have the landlord walk the property with you before you leave, and ask him what he plans to charge you for - get it in writing before you leave. Preferably with language limiting the charges to just what's on the piece of paper. If he tries to charge you for some stuff you think he shouldn't, tell him so.
If he wants to charge you for carpet cleaning, then tell him you want to see the receipt from the carpet cleaners and you either want to inspect the premises (if you're close enough) or photos to document it.
Being polite but firm I managed to get out of an apartment with zero fees and zero held out of my security deposit. It was a high priced East Coast slightly upscale complex.
posted by mrs. taters at 12:51 PM on July 21, 2010
For $100 I probably wouldn't fight it, if that $100 means you don't have to do any cleaning and then you won't have to fight it with him. If you can't spare the $100, show him the lease language and ask him to justify the $100 cleaning fee - the lease doesn't say it has to be professionally cleaned. I'd get a written document from him that the $100 is the only cleaning fee he's charging.
Take a ton of photos. Have the landlord walk the property with you before you leave, and ask him what he plans to charge you for - get it in writing before you leave. Preferably with language limiting the charges to just what's on the piece of paper. If he tries to charge you for some stuff you think he shouldn't, tell him so.
If he wants to charge you for carpet cleaning, then tell him you want to see the receipt from the carpet cleaners and you either want to inspect the premises (if you're close enough) or photos to document it.
Being polite but firm I managed to get out of an apartment with zero fees and zero held out of my security deposit. It was a high priced East Coast slightly upscale complex.
posted by mrs. taters at 12:51 PM on July 21, 2010
My experiences with landlords leaves me to assume the worst. As such, I highly recommending reading actual legal recommendations from appropriately learned individuals. Go get California Tenants' Rights by Nolo Press. It will answer all of your questions. I think every renter in California should read that book. If you lived in the Bay Area, I would be happy to loan you my copy.
To those not living in California, I would recommend one of these two.
posted by fief at 2:06 PM on July 21, 2010
To those not living in California, I would recommend one of these two.
posted by fief at 2:06 PM on July 21, 2010
I've rented on 10 occasions in 8 cities (all on the east coast) from private parties and complexes and never been charged a clean out fee. I've never even had my security deposit kept (and I'm not an amazing cleaner -- one apartment still had stains all over the carpet, another holes in walls patched with toothpaste, still another had broken blinds, etc). I would think that a final clean out, like repainting between renters, is the cost of doing business. They need to tack a dollar on the rent up front to cover the cost or state it in the lease at the beginning, not spring this scam at the end. I think I'd have to stage a scene or something, reiterating that it was "simply bad business" until they got tired and gave in. May or may not work, but I'd feel like I stood up for myself afterwards.
posted by MeiraV at 2:08 PM on July 21, 2010
posted by MeiraV at 2:08 PM on July 21, 2010
As I recall, Ca law at least used to say that landlords should repaint every 4 years, and/or between tenants. A fast scan of the Civil code (linked above) didn't verify that, but you might want to check further.
posted by path at 3:30 PM on July 21, 2010
posted by path at 3:30 PM on July 21, 2010
Your landlord sound like a complete slimeball. I was stuck with cleaning fees at the first few places I rented (LA and Boston) until I wised up and hired professional cleaners--including for the rug--when I moved.
posted by brujita at 11:11 PM on July 21, 2010
posted by brujita at 11:11 PM on July 21, 2010
Response by poster: Just wanted to follow-up in case anyone references this thread in the future. Before we moved out we requested a walk-through with the manager so he could tell us potential trouble areas. We told him we had some questions and came prepared with some notebooks to write down his comments and answers. I think he was a little taken aback and he seemed to think we were Serious Business about the whole thing (which, yes, we sort of were). After the walk-through he assured us that everything looked great and the charges would be minimal--at most a cleaning fee, maybe not even that. Honestly, I think our clipboards and papers we referred to intimidated him a little bit.
After we moved out we did clean the apartment, but we didn't bother with a rug shampooer and it was a 2-hour job, not a 6-hour deep clean job. I'd say it was passable but not professional. We had another meeting with the manager where we handed over the keys and he again said it looked good. Being suspicious, I was still pretty anxious.
We just got our security deposit, and they refunded the whole thing. I'm actually shocked, I was sure they were going to take out for cleaning. My only thought is that the manager might have suspected we would have raised a big fuss over whatever deductions so he went gentle on us.
Here's a tip for LA residents specifically: buildings subject to rent control (under the Rent Stabilization Ordinance, or RSO) are required to pay INTEREST on deposits. The interest percentage is laid out in the RSO documentation online. This wasn't in our lease but when I was doing some googling I came across this info. Of course when they refunded the deposit it was the original amount, and when we called and inquired about the interest, the woman at the management company said they "forgot" to add it and will send a supplemental check. I'm sure they "forget" for everyone who doesn't know enough to pester them. But the moral of the story is, be really familiar with your rights, and don't be afraid to ask for what's right. Happy ending!
posted by Bella Sebastian at 9:57 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
After we moved out we did clean the apartment, but we didn't bother with a rug shampooer and it was a 2-hour job, not a 6-hour deep clean job. I'd say it was passable but not professional. We had another meeting with the manager where we handed over the keys and he again said it looked good. Being suspicious, I was still pretty anxious.
We just got our security deposit, and they refunded the whole thing. I'm actually shocked, I was sure they were going to take out for cleaning. My only thought is that the manager might have suspected we would have raised a big fuss over whatever deductions so he went gentle on us.
Here's a tip for LA residents specifically: buildings subject to rent control (under the Rent Stabilization Ordinance, or RSO) are required to pay INTEREST on deposits. The interest percentage is laid out in the RSO documentation online. This wasn't in our lease but when I was doing some googling I came across this info. Of course when they refunded the deposit it was the original amount, and when we called and inquired about the interest, the woman at the management company said they "forgot" to add it and will send a supplemental check. I'm sure they "forget" for everyone who doesn't know enough to pester them. But the moral of the story is, be really familiar with your rights, and don't be afraid to ask for what's right. Happy ending!
posted by Bella Sebastian at 9:57 PM on August 11, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
$100 for a post-move cleaning actually sounds pretty cheap. You could call a few cleaning companies to get some price quotes and then ask your landlord if you can use those, but I doubt you'd do better than $100.
Do a walk-through regarding the rugs and hope for the best. You might get screwed.
posted by k8t at 12:20 PM on July 21, 2010