I'm bitter and very sad about the fact that I've never had a reliable and protective man (father, brother, uncle, grandfather) in my life.
July 6, 2010 12:03 PM Subscribe
I'm bitter and very sad about the fact that I've never had a reliable and protective man (father, brother, uncle, grandfather) in my life.
I grew up in a single parent household, continents away from my father, my half-brother, my grandfather, etc. For a long time I have felt so sad and bitter that I have no man in my life to look out for me in the way that my boyfriend looks out for his younger sister. No man to say, "If he ever hurts you...," no man to want the best for me outside of his own interests. It's not that I'm jealous, but I do feel forgotten and alone and vulnerable. I know I'll get responses telling me I need to be strong for myself, but it just feels overwhelmingly unfair. My ex also had a younger sister and the attention was always on her, on protecting her, beating up any guy who'd hurt her...and I'd always just think, what about me?
I'm sorry if this seems whiny, I'm really not trying to wallow in self-pity. It would be very helpful if I could hear from others who have felt this way before.
I grew up in a single parent household, continents away from my father, my half-brother, my grandfather, etc. For a long time I have felt so sad and bitter that I have no man in my life to look out for me in the way that my boyfriend looks out for his younger sister. No man to say, "If he ever hurts you...," no man to want the best for me outside of his own interests. It's not that I'm jealous, but I do feel forgotten and alone and vulnerable. I know I'll get responses telling me I need to be strong for myself, but it just feels overwhelmingly unfair. My ex also had a younger sister and the attention was always on her, on protecting her, beating up any guy who'd hurt her...and I'd always just think, what about me?
I'm sorry if this seems whiny, I'm really not trying to wallow in self-pity. It would be very helpful if I could hear from others who have felt this way before.
Eh. I think you're idealizing a relationship that many people don't get, and do just fine (or reasonably fine) without. I had an in-home father and older brother, and didn't have "a man to look out for me" in the retro, soft-focus way you seem to think is standard. In fact, I could have used someone (still could) to beat up the older brother on my behalf, who was that damaging bully you seem to think brothers keep away (only he lived with me full time!). What you seem to want is in fact unhealthy dependency, for a grown woman.
posted by availablelight at 12:11 PM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by availablelight at 12:11 PM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: To clarify, I do have these male relatives, they just don't protect me. That is what I am sad about.
posted by DeltaForce at 12:12 PM on July 6, 2010
posted by DeltaForce at 12:12 PM on July 6, 2010
I had a father who promised to protect me in such a way (hurt anyone if they ever hurt his little girl, etc) until about my 18th birthday, when we more or less stopped talking to me entirely. I often think about issues of abandonment/neglect when it comes to interactions with men in my life, but when it really comes down to it we, unfortunately, can't control how others feel about us, no matter how badly we want to. Somehow that makes it a bit easier for me to accept the support network I have now as complete as it could be.
On a semi-tangent: maybe ask yourself why is it important that this person is a man? Can you get the same sense of protection from a woman? Your mother or a sister/aunt/anyone? Causing physical harm to others isn't the only way to protect someone.
posted by citywolf at 12:13 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
On a semi-tangent: maybe ask yourself why is it important that this person is a man? Can you get the same sense of protection from a woman? Your mother or a sister/aunt/anyone? Causing physical harm to others isn't the only way to protect someone.
posted by citywolf at 12:13 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Also, this is a huge red flag for maybe needing some supportive therapy for yourself:
My ex also had a younger sister and the attention was always on her, on protecting her, beating up any guy who'd hurt her...and I'd always just think, what about me?
Why would any attention paid to her, diminish your own relationship with him, unless he was literally being forced to choose in a conflict between you two? Therein lies madness (and child abuse down the line, in severe cases...do you think you'd be just as jealous if you have a daughter some day and your husband is a good father to her?).
posted by availablelight at 12:15 PM on July 6, 2010
My ex also had a younger sister and the attention was always on her, on protecting her, beating up any guy who'd hurt her...and I'd always just think, what about me?
Why would any attention paid to her, diminish your own relationship with him, unless he was literally being forced to choose in a conflict between you two? Therein lies madness (and child abuse down the line, in severe cases...do you think you'd be just as jealous if you have a daughter some day and your husband is a good father to her?).
posted by availablelight at 12:15 PM on July 6, 2010
I can understand how this would seem like a huge void in your life-it was. But if it helps at all, I grew up with my father in the house, two grandfathers, a variety of uncles and two older male cousins-all within about twenty miles of each other and me. And no one ever made any effort to protect me from anything. They are just not like that. So the fact that your boyfriend is protective with his sister is not necessarily the norm. If your male relatives had been geographically close, they'd have found some other way to disappoint you, I can practically guarantee it.
Also-if your boyfriend is like that with his sister, I bet he treats you like a million bucks. So in a way, you now have that protective guy in your life-you just had to go out and find him rather than being related to him by an accident of birth. Good for you, nice guys are hard to find.
posted by supercapitalist at 12:15 PM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Also-if your boyfriend is like that with his sister, I bet he treats you like a million bucks. So in a way, you now have that protective guy in your life-you just had to go out and find him rather than being related to him by an accident of birth. Good for you, nice guys are hard to find.
posted by supercapitalist at 12:15 PM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I know exactly what you mean. I had two brothers and a father, but none of them provided a protective atmosphere whatsoever (and sometimes enhanced feelings of vulnerability). I see the protective brother/sister and father/daughter relationships that other people have, and as much as I know that kind of male/female protectiveness is based in sexist ideals where women are the "property" of their family and I need to be strong for myself and blah blah blah, I still feel lost about it sometimes, especially when I feel vulnerable.
What I remember is that rather regretting the support I didn't have, I should feel proud of the strength I developed in its absence. I'm more assertive, forthright, confident, and independent than many women I know, and that's because I had to be. I missed out on the feeling of protection but I've become somebody who is better at protecting myself and others as a result.
Few people get the benefit of a whole and perfect childhood--but we can't live our lives bitter as a result. You have to ask yourself what are the good things you have because of the way you were raised, not despite it, and be proud of yourself for developing those things.
posted by Anonymous at 12:15 PM on July 6, 2010
What I remember is that rather regretting the support I didn't have, I should feel proud of the strength I developed in its absence. I'm more assertive, forthright, confident, and independent than many women I know, and that's because I had to be. I missed out on the feeling of protection but I've become somebody who is better at protecting myself and others as a result.
Few people get the benefit of a whole and perfect childhood--but we can't live our lives bitter as a result. You have to ask yourself what are the good things you have because of the way you were raised, not despite it, and be proud of yourself for developing those things.
posted by Anonymous at 12:15 PM on July 6, 2010
Study shows children of lesbian couples do well, even better than children of heterosexual couples. Not that children of lesbian couples lack mature men in their lives (uncles, grandfathers, family friends) but lacking a "strong protective father" doesn't harm the kids or mean they are worse off.
As I said, your boyfriend is a good egg. But think of the idea of a strong, yet kindly, Papa Bear who will protect his little girl forever and ever as sort of the equivalent of Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best: idealized, and not in tune with many (most?) people's realities.
You can still succeed without a Big Daddy to "protect" you. In fact, in the 21st century more than ever!
If you are really bothered by this issue, you might want to consider therapy.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:19 PM on July 6, 2010
As I said, your boyfriend is a good egg. But think of the idea of a strong, yet kindly, Papa Bear who will protect his little girl forever and ever as sort of the equivalent of Leave it to Beaver or Father Knows Best: idealized, and not in tune with many (most?) people's realities.
You can still succeed without a Big Daddy to "protect" you. In fact, in the 21st century more than ever!
If you are really bothered by this issue, you might want to consider therapy.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:19 PM on July 6, 2010
To clarify, I do have these male relatives, they just don't protect me. That is what I am sad about.
In what sense do you need protecting? I have a younger sister. She's an extremely capable, independent young woman who certainly doesn't need a gun-toting guardian angel. She has me, as well as our father - and either one of us would do anything to protect her, but I'm not sure either of has ever actually said that out loud, in as many words, because we're both extremely nonviolent people who know that "protecting" someone isn't the same thing as "being willing to punch someone on their behalf." For adults, protection is more along the lines of "I'm going to help you move out of that asshole's place, and then we're getting you a new phone number, and my buddy's a cop so he's going to give us a hand getting you a restraining order." If you're using protection as a synonym for "willing to be violent on behalf of me," then I think you'll find that's a highly variable thing that isn't at all universal.
posted by Tomorrowful at 12:20 PM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
In what sense do you need protecting? I have a younger sister. She's an extremely capable, independent young woman who certainly doesn't need a gun-toting guardian angel. She has me, as well as our father - and either one of us would do anything to protect her, but I'm not sure either of has ever actually said that out loud, in as many words, because we're both extremely nonviolent people who know that "protecting" someone isn't the same thing as "being willing to punch someone on their behalf." For adults, protection is more along the lines of "I'm going to help you move out of that asshole's place, and then we're getting you a new phone number, and my buddy's a cop so he's going to give us a hand getting you a restraining order." If you're using protection as a synonym for "willing to be violent on behalf of me," then I think you'll find that's a highly variable thing that isn't at all universal.
posted by Tomorrowful at 12:20 PM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
I grew up with a father and older brother and they spent more time harming me than protecting me. What I learned was that I could only rely on myself. This kind of stoic self-reliance comes with some bitterness, for sure. However, my relationship with my husband has helped me to let go of some of that. And my strength and independence means I can protect him too.
posted by amanda at 12:21 PM on July 6, 2010
posted by amanda at 12:21 PM on July 6, 2010
I have no man in my life to look out for me in the way that my boyfriend looks out for his younger sister.
Yeah, and I never had a big brother, and it (maybe) it would have been great if I had. But we don't really have any say over who is in our lives and what role they play in our formative years. Even in an age when we are finally coming to terms as a society with the fact that "family" can mean whatever we want/need it to mean, no one gets to have it all.
it just feels overwhelmingly unfair.
I don't want to play the "life isn't fair" card, but really I think you ought to be counting your blessings and the reflecting on the fortunate, positive relationships in your life.
Also, whenever I think of an older brother who would "beat up anyone who would hurt" some girl, I think about men who use the pretense of love and protection as an excuse to justify their violent impulses, and the other problems concealed therein. I am an older brother of two sisters, and I guarantee you I have been a source of support and tough love, but I have never offered or threatened beatings as a form of protection. It would literally never occur to me. Do you think they feel that is "unfair"?
posted by hermitosis at 12:21 PM on July 6, 2010 [8 favorites]
Yeah, and I never had a big brother, and it (maybe) it would have been great if I had. But we don't really have any say over who is in our lives and what role they play in our formative years. Even in an age when we are finally coming to terms as a society with the fact that "family" can mean whatever we want/need it to mean, no one gets to have it all.
it just feels overwhelmingly unfair.
I don't want to play the "life isn't fair" card, but really I think you ought to be counting your blessings and the reflecting on the fortunate, positive relationships in your life.
Also, whenever I think of an older brother who would "beat up anyone who would hurt" some girl, I think about men who use the pretense of love and protection as an excuse to justify their violent impulses, and the other problems concealed therein. I am an older brother of two sisters, and I guarantee you I have been a source of support and tough love, but I have never offered or threatened beatings as a form of protection. It would literally never occur to me. Do you think they feel that is "unfair"?
posted by hermitosis at 12:21 PM on July 6, 2010 [8 favorites]
Eh. I think you're idealizing a relationship that many people don't get, and do just fine (or reasonably fine) without.
It might help somewhat to remember that having a father or other male relative DOES NOT guarantee that this male relative will be a protector for his daughter or sister.
This and this. I had a father who cared about me, drove me around, was generally a good parent and all that. (Still have him, in fact.) But there was never any of that protecting stuff going on. It was all me against bullies in school and guys who treated me like crap. It was all me (and sometimes my mom) against teachers and school administrators who were assholes to me. I can't tell if your dad left you and your mom and ran off to that other continent; if so that must have been a very hard thing to deal with, which I'm not qualified to comment on. (And which I think is a whole 'nother issue.) If it's just that your male relatives weren't there to protect you, then that's not so much "unfair" as just really common, whether they're around or not.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 12:28 PM on July 6, 2010
It might help somewhat to remember that having a father or other male relative DOES NOT guarantee that this male relative will be a protector for his daughter or sister.
This and this. I had a father who cared about me, drove me around, was generally a good parent and all that. (Still have him, in fact.) But there was never any of that protecting stuff going on. It was all me against bullies in school and guys who treated me like crap. It was all me (and sometimes my mom) against teachers and school administrators who were assholes to me. I can't tell if your dad left you and your mom and ran off to that other continent; if so that must have been a very hard thing to deal with, which I'm not qualified to comment on. (And which I think is a whole 'nother issue.) If it's just that your male relatives weren't there to protect you, then that's not so much "unfair" as just really common, whether they're around or not.
posted by DestinationUnknown at 12:28 PM on July 6, 2010
Response by poster: @ Tomorrowful, I meant that more as an example, but yes, how you describe how you feel towards your sister and what you would do for her is more what I am talking about (am am lacking), not necessarily verbal threats of violence.
posted by DeltaForce at 12:30 PM on July 6, 2010
posted by DeltaForce at 12:30 PM on July 6, 2010
Is it the protection you are missing, or the relationship? If you grew up thousands of miles away from your male relatives, it's hard to have a really close relationship. I see that you are focusing on the "reliable and protective" aspect of it, but there are lots of dimensions to relationships with male relatives, and I wonder whether you've identified something readily obvious (the way your boyfriend interacts with his younger sister) when perhaps you regret not having a closer connection in general.
I have no brothers, only sisters. My father is extremely reliable, but like hermitosis, never offered or threatened beatings on my behalf. I am close to my father and I hope that he sticks around long enough so that my sons can have a close relationship with him too- he is kind and gentle and very wise and supportive. And I can certainly imagine missing having a relationship like that had I grown up thousands of miles away from him.
That being said, you get choose how you frame this for yourself, and if you decide to be sad and bitter about it, that's your decision. Or you can turn your energy to developing close relationships with men who are reliable and protective (as you describe your boyfriend, for example) and engage constructively going forward.
posted by ambrosia at 12:42 PM on July 6, 2010
I have no brothers, only sisters. My father is extremely reliable, but like hermitosis, never offered or threatened beatings on my behalf. I am close to my father and I hope that he sticks around long enough so that my sons can have a close relationship with him too- he is kind and gentle and very wise and supportive. And I can certainly imagine missing having a relationship like that had I grown up thousands of miles away from him.
That being said, you get choose how you frame this for yourself, and if you decide to be sad and bitter about it, that's your decision. Or you can turn your energy to developing close relationships with men who are reliable and protective (as you describe your boyfriend, for example) and engage constructively going forward.
posted by ambrosia at 12:42 PM on July 6, 2010
I have felt some bitterness about not having a mother or father in my life. I've had other men and women in my life in those roles but it's not the same. Ultimately, I have been able to tell myself that my life would have probably been worse had they been in my life. They were both junkies and in and out of prison.
Truly, this is a dark path to go down. You have to believe that you have made the best out of what you had. Idealizing and romanticizing what you didn't have can be really damaging. You don't want to carry this around.
posted by mokeydraws at 12:45 PM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Truly, this is a dark path to go down. You have to believe that you have made the best out of what you had. Idealizing and romanticizing what you didn't have can be really damaging. You don't want to carry this around.
posted by mokeydraws at 12:45 PM on July 6, 2010 [2 favorites]
Best answer: Until I met and married my husband, I never had that either. No brothers, and a dad who either ignored or growled at me as he was consumed in his own hobbies. His lack of protection had real physical ramifications for me as a teen (which is nothing I feel like sharing on the internets, thanks.) He did and does love me, but never did figure out how to be a real dad. (His role model was awful, so he came by it honestly.)
The only advice I can give you, is that yes, it sucks. It does help to know that none of us had a perfect childhood and all of us have lacks of one thing or another in life. This is just ours. As for me, I have a husband that adores me, and I also (really) find solace in the fact that God really is the Dad and Big Brother I never had, in a very real way to me. That does help, a lot.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:46 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
The only advice I can give you, is that yes, it sucks. It does help to know that none of us had a perfect childhood and all of us have lacks of one thing or another in life. This is just ours. As for me, I have a husband that adores me, and I also (really) find solace in the fact that God really is the Dad and Big Brother I never had, in a very real way to me. That does help, a lot.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:46 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I think the relationship you are talking about definitely happens more between older brothers/younger sisters than fathers/daughters. Most daughters I know had more of a "nice girls don't do that" and "the way you're dressed, you're asking for trouble" vibe from their dads than a "I'll beat up any guy who hurts you" vibe. Note how very different those vibes are. I don't KNOW any girls with the latter kind of dad, in fact. Is this some kind of fictional dad that TV and books and movies have thrust upon us?
As for brothers...I used to want a cool older brother too, some guy who could help me navigate my way confidently among boys and be a positive male influence in my life. However, there's really no way we can all have an older brother, right?
After a while, I kind of forgot about wanting an older brother, and was quite happy with the younger siblings I do have. I absolutely love them and have worked on myself to try and build a good adult relationship with them. I would not trade them for the world. There's something wonderful about being an older sibling and watching your younger sibs mature.
posted by The ____ of Justice at 12:47 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
As for brothers...I used to want a cool older brother too, some guy who could help me navigate my way confidently among boys and be a positive male influence in my life. However, there's really no way we can all have an older brother, right?
After a while, I kind of forgot about wanting an older brother, and was quite happy with the younger siblings I do have. I absolutely love them and have worked on myself to try and build a good adult relationship with them. I would not trade them for the world. There's something wonderful about being an older sibling and watching your younger sibs mature.
posted by The ____ of Justice at 12:47 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Truly, this is a dark path to go down. You have to believe that you have made the best out of what you had. Idealizing and romanticizing what you didn't have can be really damaging. You don't want to carry this around.
Absolutely. This path leads to resentment and bitterness over something that is completely imaginary. Comparing your life and your experiences to those of anyone else or a perceived ideal is not only useless but damaging. I've done it, and it did nothing but keep me from appreciating what I had. I find that I'm a much happier person when I concentrate on appreciating what I do have, rather than on what I imagine I might have had.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 12:51 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Absolutely. This path leads to resentment and bitterness over something that is completely imaginary. Comparing your life and your experiences to those of anyone else or a perceived ideal is not only useless but damaging. I've done it, and it did nothing but keep me from appreciating what I had. I find that I'm a much happier person when I concentrate on appreciating what I do have, rather than on what I imagine I might have had.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 12:51 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have a "hands off" kind of family where the expecation is that you become and remain self-sufficient as soon as possible. On-going guidance was generally given in the form of advice for how I could handle a given situation myself.
At times, that felt a bit cold to me and I underestimated the level of support I had. On the rare occasions when I was truly in trouble and needed them, they dropped everything and spared no effort to help me.
Perhaps the people in your life think that you seem strong and self-reliant and there is no need to step up to the plate for you, because you're already doing everything perfectly well.
In my personal opinion, I think parents or siblings who frequently "intervene" on another's behalf actually end up compromising the person's strength and independence.
posted by cranberrymonger at 12:53 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
At times, that felt a bit cold to me and I underestimated the level of support I had. On the rare occasions when I was truly in trouble and needed them, they dropped everything and spared no effort to help me.
Perhaps the people in your life think that you seem strong and self-reliant and there is no need to step up to the plate for you, because you're already doing everything perfectly well.
In my personal opinion, I think parents or siblings who frequently "intervene" on another's behalf actually end up compromising the person's strength and independence.
posted by cranberrymonger at 12:53 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have a five-years older brother, and when I told him to protect me from someone as a kid, he scoffed and told me to protect my own damn self... in a totally loving way. He made me realize that that was in no way part of our relationship, and it was healthier without a Helpless Princess aspect to it.
And now that we're grown and there's no way he could protect me most of my waking hours, I'm glad of that self-reliance he shoved on me. And the fact that he's grown out of teasing me mercilessly about being fat, and catching spiders and putting them in my bedroom... In other words, no brother or father is a white knight - they're All family, and thus drive us crazy, even when we love them.
posted by ldthomps at 12:59 PM on July 6, 2010
And now that we're grown and there's no way he could protect me most of my waking hours, I'm glad of that self-reliance he shoved on me. And the fact that he's grown out of teasing me mercilessly about being fat, and catching spiders and putting them in my bedroom... In other words, no brother or father is a white knight - they're All family, and thus drive us crazy, even when we love them.
posted by ldthomps at 12:59 PM on July 6, 2010
Some people have a nurturing parent and a protecting parent. For some, the protector is the mother and the nurturer the father, and for others vice versa. Some have one parent who is great at both, while others have two parents where neither fulfills either role.
There are a lot of hats to wear with parenting, being a sibling, and being in an extended family. The question is whether to regret what you didn't have, but how to be thankful for what you did have and how you account for what you didn't in your own life. If you're able to see that you were missing something, then you already have the ability to confront the issue, and you're better off than most.
posted by mikeh at 1:08 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
There are a lot of hats to wear with parenting, being a sibling, and being in an extended family. The question is whether to regret what you didn't have, but how to be thankful for what you did have and how you account for what you didn't in your own life. If you're able to see that you were missing something, then you already have the ability to confront the issue, and you're better off than most.
posted by mikeh at 1:08 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: I'm in therapy and it took me two years to get to the point that you're at now. I just recently started "mourning" my father. (Yes, he's alive, but is also a total, raging asshole.)
I've spent my adult life relying on myself— standing up for myself, learning how to let people treat me, etc. I am capable, independent, smart, savvy, and, well, pretty dang confident most of the time.
But last week in my session, I finally just burst into tears and told the therapist how I never felt protected, never had a dad to show me how men should treat me, never told me how capable I am, never helped me shop for car insurance or colleges, never took me to a Father Daughter Dance.
It's not about your dad threatening physical violence or providing codependent emotional support, it's about having a safe "home/fortress" to run to when you're just feeling down and out, or vulnerable.
I know what you mean about wanting to be comforted by a man who has no ulterior motive. Sometimes you just want a big 'ol shoulder to cry on, not to talk it out like with Mom. You can hypothetically do that with a guy friend or a boyfriend, but you always kind of have a feeling that they can still leave you. They're not really your "home/fortress," because that stability could be gone in a hot second. (And guy friends don't work, because there could be an underlying crush.)
But congrats— you're acknowledging a place in your heart that feels empty. Have a tantrum, but don't stay there. Living in a tantrum will kill you from the outside in. But the ground floor is a good place to be. Now you can go about building a "home/fortress" inside yourself. And that's perhaps a cold comfort, but you can't live your life fuming over what you don't have.
Hope you feel better.
posted by hubble at 1:10 PM on July 6, 2010 [8 favorites]
I've spent my adult life relying on myself— standing up for myself, learning how to let people treat me, etc. I am capable, independent, smart, savvy, and, well, pretty dang confident most of the time.
But last week in my session, I finally just burst into tears and told the therapist how I never felt protected, never had a dad to show me how men should treat me, never told me how capable I am, never helped me shop for car insurance or colleges, never took me to a Father Daughter Dance.
It's not about your dad threatening physical violence or providing codependent emotional support, it's about having a safe "home/fortress" to run to when you're just feeling down and out, or vulnerable.
I know what you mean about wanting to be comforted by a man who has no ulterior motive. Sometimes you just want a big 'ol shoulder to cry on, not to talk it out like with Mom. You can hypothetically do that with a guy friend or a boyfriend, but you always kind of have a feeling that they can still leave you. They're not really your "home/fortress," because that stability could be gone in a hot second. (And guy friends don't work, because there could be an underlying crush.)
But congrats— you're acknowledging a place in your heart that feels empty. Have a tantrum, but don't stay there. Living in a tantrum will kill you from the outside in. But the ground floor is a good place to be. Now you can go about building a "home/fortress" inside yourself. And that's perhaps a cold comfort, but you can't live your life fuming over what you don't have.
Hope you feel better.
posted by hubble at 1:10 PM on July 6, 2010 [8 favorites]
You know, I grew up without a dad at all, and without male relatives who were in my life in an important/long-lasting way. I do not lament the fact that I didn't have a guy in my life saying "I'll protect you", and in fact, when a guy I dated long ago started saying things like that, it felt like a HUGE red flag to me (WTF, I'm not a souffle or chihuahua or small child, I'm an intelligent and capable adult woman).
Have you considered that your feelings of vulnerability, forgottenness, aloneness might not actually be so directly related to this single detail about your past?
posted by so_gracefully at 1:11 PM on July 6, 2010
Have you considered that your feelings of vulnerability, forgottenness, aloneness might not actually be so directly related to this single detail about your past?
posted by so_gracefully at 1:11 PM on July 6, 2010
My dad was never that way either. He's a psychologist, and when I came to him with a problem he was likely to say, "Okay, let's figure out what steps you need to resolve this issue, and what help you might need." He always put it back into my hands. Even though he always put the responsibility back on me, the fact that he was willing to spend so much time verbally problem-solving with me was a sign that he cared.
So I guess if I were you I'd try to figure out if my feelings were stemming from not feeling cared about, or if they were actually about needing to be protected. Because it seems like you'd have to approach this problem differently depending on which it is.
Also, were there women who maybe looked out for you or cared about you? Could you take comfort in that?
posted by christinetheslp at 2:07 PM on July 6, 2010
So I guess if I were you I'd try to figure out if my feelings were stemming from not feeling cared about, or if they were actually about needing to be protected. Because it seems like you'd have to approach this problem differently depending on which it is.
Also, were there women who maybe looked out for you or cared about you? Could you take comfort in that?
posted by christinetheslp at 2:07 PM on July 6, 2010
Well, I have kind of the opposite situation. My dad is a stand up guy, but my mom, while she loved me very much, has a lot of mental health issues and couldn't be around that much as a kid. So things were hard for me because I didn't have a female role model. My mom wasn't there to brush my hair or send me a care package or help pick out my prom dress or pick out my wedding dress. And I was kind of bitter and angry about it for a long time, but now I've let it go.
How did I let it go? Well, I think I started to realize that a lot of people get a raw deal. My raw deal was that my mom was ill. My friend's raw deal is that her mom died. My other friend's raw deal is that her father was in a motorcycle accident and became a vegetable. My other friend's raw deal is that her husband has terminal cancer at 35. Your raw deal is that your father wasn't there. You get the idea. And I guess that helped me feel less sorry for myself.
posted by bananafish at 2:24 PM on July 6, 2010
How did I let it go? Well, I think I started to realize that a lot of people get a raw deal. My raw deal was that my mom was ill. My friend's raw deal is that her mom died. My other friend's raw deal is that her father was in a motorcycle accident and became a vegetable. My other friend's raw deal is that her husband has terminal cancer at 35. Your raw deal is that your father wasn't there. You get the idea. And I guess that helped me feel less sorry for myself.
posted by bananafish at 2:24 PM on July 6, 2010
Best answer: Yep. I've been where you are. My father and brother died when I was 13 and my other older bully brother abandoned the family for awhile. This meant I had no one to protect me from my own mother and my own despair. It affected my life in a huge way - in the choices I made of men, careers, location, emotional awareness... I always felt as if it was all up to me, that the only one who was going to look out for me was me. And I often didn't have a very high regard of this 'me' person.
I have journal pages written in the last decade stained with tears where I poured out my despair about my lack of older male non-sexual love, care and protection. Some pages are also indented with angry words about the men who remained alive but did nothing to help in my biggest time of need (for I was but a child).
It's been a long long time since I was a child but those feelings of abandonment, rejection, lack of care and protection have haunted me through adulthood. Many of my female friends had or still have loving protective supportive fathers, brothers and older sisters and, oh man!, I envied them. As Hubble so eloquently put it, they had a home/fortress and I had a shanty with two walls missing. Up until my mid 30s I had private self-pitying crying jags that made me feel small, weak and incapable.
I've made huge strides in the last ten years. What I did was learn to soothe the 13yr old inside and help her grow, to integrate with me the adult.
I re-read the book I'm OK, You're OK. Sure it's an oldie and the type of analysis it engaged with (Transactional Analysis) is now out of fashion, but the archetypes of Child, Parent, Adult helped me to identify the personality of my sadness, the archetype through which it spoke and the (negative) means it used to find comfort when hurt. This helped me work out how I could become my own adult protector.
Talk therapy also has helped as I was able to speak of my deep child hurts in a safe environment and have those immature feelings validated and brought to light. That in itself helped calm the self-pity enormously.
The third thing that has really helped is Saint David Burns' books - Feeling Good and Intimate Connections - the former for helping me develop a stronger, clearer awareness of the relationship between my emotions and conscious brain; and the latter for bringing that awareness to intimate relationships with others.
You're in a good place, DeltaForce. You know what hurts you, you know what's lacking, and you know that dwelling on it without doing anything about it is harmful for you. You have some great feedback up-thread and we are rooting for you to get through this.
posted by Kerasia at 4:19 PM on July 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
I have journal pages written in the last decade stained with tears where I poured out my despair about my lack of older male non-sexual love, care and protection. Some pages are also indented with angry words about the men who remained alive but did nothing to help in my biggest time of need (for I was but a child).
It's been a long long time since I was a child but those feelings of abandonment, rejection, lack of care and protection have haunted me through adulthood. Many of my female friends had or still have loving protective supportive fathers, brothers and older sisters and, oh man!, I envied them. As Hubble so eloquently put it, they had a home/fortress and I had a shanty with two walls missing. Up until my mid 30s I had private self-pitying crying jags that made me feel small, weak and incapable.
I've made huge strides in the last ten years. What I did was learn to soothe the 13yr old inside and help her grow, to integrate with me the adult.
I re-read the book I'm OK, You're OK. Sure it's an oldie and the type of analysis it engaged with (Transactional Analysis) is now out of fashion, but the archetypes of Child, Parent, Adult helped me to identify the personality of my sadness, the archetype through which it spoke and the (negative) means it used to find comfort when hurt. This helped me work out how I could become my own adult protector.
Talk therapy also has helped as I was able to speak of my deep child hurts in a safe environment and have those immature feelings validated and brought to light. That in itself helped calm the self-pity enormously.
The third thing that has really helped is Saint David Burns' books - Feeling Good and Intimate Connections - the former for helping me develop a stronger, clearer awareness of the relationship between my emotions and conscious brain; and the latter for bringing that awareness to intimate relationships with others.
You're in a good place, DeltaForce. You know what hurts you, you know what's lacking, and you know that dwelling on it without doing anything about it is harmful for you. You have some great feedback up-thread and we are rooting for you to get through this.
posted by Kerasia at 4:19 PM on July 6, 2010 [3 favorites]
Hmm. This might just tick you off, but I've had that, and it's not that great. I mean, really. My dad was randomly kinda rude to potential boyfriends, and so to determine my own life, I had to push against him as well as do whatever actual self-protecting needed done (uh, because he always guessed wrong). I'm making my dad sound worse than he is, but yeah, it's honestly not that great. So I wonder whether there's more to this than meets the eye, this sense of needing more protection by the men in your life. If I sound insensitive to your grief and sense of loss, I'm sorry, but... humor me and think about why you care about this so much? Because a lot of things about my dad were great, but that part, meh-- a total pain, no real upside.
P.S. You should watch the movie Winter's Bone. Older woman to 17-year-old girl: "Ain't you got no men that could do this?"
posted by salvia at 5:50 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
P.S. You should watch the movie Winter's Bone. Older woman to 17-year-old girl: "Ain't you got no men that could do this?"
posted by salvia at 5:50 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]
Perhaps it would help to recognize that protectiveness isn't all it's cracked up to be. From my perspective, patriarchal protectiveness is too often romanticized and overrated. The adult figures (female and male) in my life were very protective, to the degree that they insisted on sheltering and smothering me, and making all my choices for me. The result was that I missed out on many, many opportunities for growth, experience, and self-actualization. I'm in my late 20's now and still feel like I'm playing catch up to my peers.
It's only been within the last few years that I could finally say that I'm living MY life - finding out who I really am and what I'm capable of, being able to judge and take risks for myself, and to make choices based on what I know is best for me.
I know that I'm speaking from the other side of the spectrum and there must be a happy medium somewhere, but I find it very interesting and ironic that our feelings about our very different upbringings are really quite similar. In my case, rather than feeling invulnerable, and adored and cherished by the protective figures, I actually felt powerless (vulnerable?), ignored (forgotten?) and very, very alone.
posted by keep it under cover at 6:48 PM on July 6, 2010
It's only been within the last few years that I could finally say that I'm living MY life - finding out who I really am and what I'm capable of, being able to judge and take risks for myself, and to make choices based on what I know is best for me.
I know that I'm speaking from the other side of the spectrum and there must be a happy medium somewhere, but I find it very interesting and ironic that our feelings about our very different upbringings are really quite similar. In my case, rather than feeling invulnerable, and adored and cherished by the protective figures, I actually felt powerless (vulnerable?), ignored (forgotten?) and very, very alone.
posted by keep it under cover at 6:48 PM on July 6, 2010
Best answer: My mom was more of the protector than my dad. My dad is too chill. Why does it have to be a man protecting you? Do you have any female relatives that protect you? Nowadays, most of the things people need protecting from aren't going to be fixed with some kind of larger physical size or strength, but with no-how, wit, savvy, and stubbornness.
posted by ishotjr at 9:24 PM on July 6, 2010
posted by ishotjr at 9:24 PM on July 6, 2010
Response by poster: Thank you everyone for your insightful replies. I really appreciate everyone's input, including those that seem to go against this need of mine. Thank you.
posted by DeltaForce at 10:56 PM on July 6, 2010
posted by DeltaForce at 10:56 PM on July 6, 2010
I can understand the way you feel completely - my dad was great until I was about nine, then made me feel like a complete inconvenience. My brother is older, we didn't grow up together really, but when he did live at home he would advise things such as 'if you don't beat the bullies up, I'll beat you up' - he's a nice guy, but very very irresponsible in many ways. However, my mother was the one who would vet boyfriends, and the person who came down on the train when I was ill to make sure I was being looked after properly. The other side of it is that you learn that you don't need men in your life to fit that role - you can do it for yourself, and when you can't your sisters, mum and friends can do it for you, but only until you're able to do it for yourself again.
Your mom brought you up on her own - can you see her as a role-model? It is not easy being a single-parent.
posted by mippy at 4:31 AM on July 7, 2010
Your mom brought you up on her own - can you see her as a role-model? It is not easy being a single-parent.
posted by mippy at 4:31 AM on July 7, 2010
I know exactly how you feel. When I was young I sometimes cried myself to sleep because I didn't have the kindly old grandfather or the doting father that I read about in books. I dreamed of a grandfather who would sit me on his lap and tell me stories; one of my grandfathers was dead before I was born and the other was a twisted, hateful old man who never had a kind word for anybody. I dreamed of a daddy that would call me his greatest treasure and dance with me around the living room. My father was a seething volcano of resentment who gave me a childhood fraught with anxiety and tension. He did dance with me once, but then he backed me into a dark corner to give me my first French kiss and feel me up. I dreamed of having a funny, charming brother who would be my best friend, but my brother was a drug addict before he was a grown man who stole from everyone he came into contact with including me. So I totally understand where you are coming from.
However, if I know one true thing, it is this: negative emotions do not improve your life. Envy, regret, bitterness never make you feel better, but being grateful for what you have does. I am grateful every single day for the beauty and the positive things I see around me; for my husband's loving eyes, for my daughter's sweet smile, for my lovely garden, for my miraculous computer, for my good health. You have to let go of the bad stuff because it only hurts you.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:17 AM on July 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
However, if I know one true thing, it is this: negative emotions do not improve your life. Envy, regret, bitterness never make you feel better, but being grateful for what you have does. I am grateful every single day for the beauty and the positive things I see around me; for my husband's loving eyes, for my daughter's sweet smile, for my lovely garden, for my miraculous computer, for my good health. You have to let go of the bad stuff because it only hurts you.
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 5:17 AM on July 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
Are you missing protection or love?
I have loving male relatives and friends, but really I grew up allowed to protect myself. They would help if I asked. Now when some man wants to "protect" me, I see him as an alpha male who sees me as weak and dependant. I don't want that. I can fight my own battle, thank you, I just want the love and affection.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:19 PM on July 7, 2010
I have loving male relatives and friends, but really I grew up allowed to protect myself. They would help if I asked. Now when some man wants to "protect" me, I see him as an alpha male who sees me as weak and dependant. I don't want that. I can fight my own battle, thank you, I just want the love and affection.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:19 PM on July 7, 2010
Oh and the way to make peace with the fact that some people in your life that you expected to love you don't is of course therapy.
posted by WeekendJen at 12:20 PM on July 7, 2010
posted by WeekendJen at 12:20 PM on July 7, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Your boyfriend is a good egg. If you had a steady older male figure(s), they may not have been such good eggs.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 12:10 PM on July 6, 2010 [1 favorite]