It's not me, it's them
June 15, 2010 4:03 PM Subscribe
What to say about terrible, nightmare employer if it comes up?
Last year I worked for a development shop for about six months. After two months, they decided to build some kind of CRM system for power plants, or some such nonsense, and stop doing any web development. To that end, they began to fire everyone in sight; not lay off, fire. They made up whatever they had to to get them out the door, attempted to deny us all unemployment by saying we were fired "for cause", and started killing us off en masse. It was awful.
I'm interviewing again, and I'm not sure what to say if an employer presses about why this was such a short engagement. I've never been fired, and I think it shows (my typical stint is around four years), but I just want to be prepared. I do not want to lie, but I'm looking for pointers about how to spin this positively without seeming like a douche bag. In my favor, I have listed the last decent boss I had at this company as a reference; he's a top notch person, and knows all the details. He was also unceremoniously dumped from the company.
I'm sure someone out there has been in this spot before and still managed to get employed again afterward. I'm (mostly) over the dirtbag employer, now just need to swing to the next vine.
Last year I worked for a development shop for about six months. After two months, they decided to build some kind of CRM system for power plants, or some such nonsense, and stop doing any web development. To that end, they began to fire everyone in sight; not lay off, fire. They made up whatever they had to to get them out the door, attempted to deny us all unemployment by saying we were fired "for cause", and started killing us off en masse. It was awful.
I'm interviewing again, and I'm not sure what to say if an employer presses about why this was such a short engagement. I've never been fired, and I think it shows (my typical stint is around four years), but I just want to be prepared. I do not want to lie, but I'm looking for pointers about how to spin this positively without seeming like a douche bag. In my favor, I have listed the last decent boss I had at this company as a reference; he's a top notch person, and knows all the details. He was also unceremoniously dumped from the company.
I'm sure someone out there has been in this spot before and still managed to get employed again afterward. I'm (mostly) over the dirtbag employer, now just need to swing to the next vine.
Should mention that I got laid off a LOT for that reason as a technical writer, and it was always understood.
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 4:07 PM on June 15, 2010
posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 4:07 PM on June 15, 2010
In this situation I don't see any reason why you can't just tell the truth. It sounds perfectly plausible to me, and will probably sound perfectly plausible to any prospective employer to whom you are applying. We all know that there are crazy employers out there, and that perfectly good employees are sometimes fired for ridiculous reasons.
posted by grizzled at 4:09 PM on June 15, 2010
posted by grizzled at 4:09 PM on June 15, 2010
"they decided to build a CRM system for power plants and stop doing any web development."
Don't say anything disparaging or negative, be honest, but be strategically honest.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:11 PM on June 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
Don't say anything disparaging or negative, be honest, but be strategically honest.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 4:11 PM on June 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
As a person who has interviewed hundreds of people (at Dell, bleah), I urge you to completely refrain from being negative about your former employers.
Very few things are more off-putting. No one wants to work side-by-side with a negative person, even if fully justified.
In fact, only swearing and bringing in confidential documents as part of your portfolio were more likely to get a "sorry, no thanks" from me.
Also, I wouldn't have thought a six-month programming gig was terribly short.
posted by Invoke at 4:15 PM on June 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
Very few things are more off-putting. No one wants to work side-by-side with a negative person, even if fully justified.
In fact, only swearing and bringing in confidential documents as part of your portfolio were more likely to get a "sorry, no thanks" from me.
Also, I wouldn't have thought a six-month programming gig was terribly short.
posted by Invoke at 4:15 PM on June 15, 2010 [5 favorites]
I've interviewed a lot of people and the only time I've worried about a short stint at a company is when there are several of them. You stayed at one company for six months? No problem. The haven't stayed longer than six months at the last six companies for which you've worked? Let's have a talk about that.
The company changed directions, many people in your department were leaving, and you decided that you should seek other opportunities. The fact that the reason people were leaving was that they were fired and the fact that you decided to look elsewhere because you were fired is not something you need to bring up.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 4:40 PM on June 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
The company changed directions, many people in your department were leaving, and you decided that you should seek other opportunities. The fact that the reason people were leaving was that they were fired and the fact that you decided to look elsewhere because you were fired is not something you need to bring up.
posted by It's Never Lurgi at 4:40 PM on June 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree with Invoke.
I have interviewed thousands of people over the years. I don't blink when candidates tell me, when pressed, Company X just wasn't a fit -- and leave it at that. Candidates who decide to vent or explain why their last boss was The Worst Person on the Planet? We never call those people back.
Don't be that person.
posted by ohyouknow at 4:42 PM on June 15, 2010
I have interviewed thousands of people over the years. I don't blink when candidates tell me, when pressed, Company X just wasn't a fit -- and leave it at that. Candidates who decide to vent or explain why their last boss was The Worst Person on the Planet? We never call those people back.
Don't be that person.
posted by ohyouknow at 4:42 PM on June 15, 2010
How about this: "They decided to build a CRM system for power plants and stop doing any web development. Quite a large number of people were let go in the transition, including my supervisor, but he was happy to let me use him as a reference anyway."
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 5:05 PM on June 15, 2010 [13 favorites]
posted by ThatCanadianGirl at 5:05 PM on June 15, 2010 [13 favorites]
What A Terrible Llama and ThatCanadianGirl said.
You have about half an hour to convince an interviewer that you're clever, skilled, can work independently or as part of a team and that you are unlikely to kill and eat a coworker. The story of how you worked for a bunch lunatics a while back will only distract the interviewer from the topic of what you can bring to the party.
It's your half hour to tell them what you can bring to the party.
If you land this job you can tell the story at lunch or a post work happy hour when the topic of terrible jobs you once had comes up. Your new boss and coworkers will say things like, "Oh man!" and then someone will tell a story that makes your stint in hell sound like a day in the park.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 6:22 PM on June 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
You have about half an hour to convince an interviewer that you're clever, skilled, can work independently or as part of a team and that you are unlikely to kill and eat a coworker. The story of how you worked for a bunch lunatics a while back will only distract the interviewer from the topic of what you can bring to the party.
It's your half hour to tell them what you can bring to the party.
If you land this job you can tell the story at lunch or a post work happy hour when the topic of terrible jobs you once had comes up. Your new boss and coworkers will say things like, "Oh man!" and then someone will tell a story that makes your stint in hell sound like a day in the park.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 6:22 PM on June 15, 2010 [4 favorites]
If your typical stint is around four years, one six-month stint isn't necessarily a huge red flag, especially if you keep to neutral facts. Also keep in mind that *a lot* of companies let lots of people go over the last 18 months, what with the global economic meltdown and everything, so a neutral "the company decided to change directions and discontinued all its web development work" that will explain both your departure and why your references from that employer are now employed elsewhere in one succinct, factually correct and non-whiny sentence. Then follow up with something positive, either about the new position you are interested in, or some good thing about the last gig, a project you worked on, a skill you honed, something. Bitterness about former employers is an interview-killer.
I say this as the survivor of a not-quite four month stint working for the meanest asshole bully I've ever encountered. One short stint is not the end of the world. The only time I really got grilled about the length of gigs on my resume I found out later that the guy had never interviewed anyone before and was just staring at my resume trying to think of questions to ask because he was new at it. (And yeah, I got that job anyway.)
posted by ambrosia at 9:48 PM on June 15, 2010
I say this as the survivor of a not-quite four month stint working for the meanest asshole bully I've ever encountered. One short stint is not the end of the world. The only time I really got grilled about the length of gigs on my resume I found out later that the guy had never interviewed anyone before and was just staring at my resume trying to think of questions to ask because he was new at it. (And yeah, I got that job anyway.)
posted by ambrosia at 9:48 PM on June 15, 2010
Response by poster: I hate picking a best answer, so I'll just say thanks to everybody who took the time. Wish me luck!
posted by littlerobothead at 10:03 PM on June 15, 2010
posted by littlerobothead at 10:03 PM on June 15, 2010
It sounds like you've gotten the answer you need, but I've been in this exact position, so I just had to share:
The "my department/firm/project changed direction and my skillset was no longer required" explanation works really well. In my case, my nightmare boss had a really bad reputation in our field: for burning through staff, questionable ethics, and generally being sort of crazy. People who didn't know her took my explanation at face value.* People who knew her? Were impressed with my tact and diplomacy (I heard this second-hand after interviews twice!). Win-win.
*Actually, one potential employer really grilled me on this point, to the point where I felt uncomfortable. I missed getting the job by a hair and I have honestly not regretted it once, mostly based on how much said potential boss was grilling me, trying to get me to say something negative. I've since found out that she's actually not so different from Crazy Boss, and so now I have this theory that anyone who would grill you after getting this explanation is a sort of kindred spirit Crazy Boss.
posted by lunasol at 11:45 PM on June 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
The "my department/firm/project changed direction and my skillset was no longer required" explanation works really well. In my case, my nightmare boss had a really bad reputation in our field: for burning through staff, questionable ethics, and generally being sort of crazy. People who didn't know her took my explanation at face value.* People who knew her? Were impressed with my tact and diplomacy (I heard this second-hand after interviews twice!). Win-win.
*Actually, one potential employer really grilled me on this point, to the point where I felt uncomfortable. I missed getting the job by a hair and I have honestly not regretted it once, mostly based on how much said potential boss was grilling me, trying to get me to say something negative. I've since found out that she's actually not so different from Crazy Boss, and so now I have this theory that anyone who would grill you after getting this explanation is a sort of kindred spirit Crazy Boss.
posted by lunasol at 11:45 PM on June 15, 2010 [1 favorite]
In my corner of tech in Silicon Valley, it's pretty well understood that there are a few insane shops out there. "They made an abrupt change in direction and an abrupt rebalancing of their staff" conveys enough without going negative. If it gets into whether you were laid off or let go for cause, saying that they fired a bunch of people "for cause" all at once explains a bit. Stories get around.
Some interviewers might dig because they like juicy gossip.
posted by dws at 7:45 AM on June 16, 2010
Some interviewers might dig because they like juicy gossip.
posted by dws at 7:45 AM on June 16, 2010
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posted by L'Estrange Fruit at 4:07 PM on June 15, 2010 [16 favorites]