Who are the normal people?
June 7, 2010 12:20 PM Subscribe
What is "normal," in a psychological/cultural/personality sense? How common is it? And what does it feel like? Any studies, stats, anecdotes?
In part, this question is inspired by the "What's it like to have ADD?" question. I haven't been diagnosed with ADD, but the answers in that thread felt more familiar than foreign, and it left me wondering how people would describe the other side.
To give you a frame of reference on why I don't identify as "normal" (though I don't want this question to be about me): I'm very introverted; I've fought depression/dysthymia for a lot of my life; my psychiatrist believes I have social anxiety; I have a psychiatrist to begin with. In addition to that, all my life I've had trouble fitting in, and life and school and work have been full of little rules that everyone but me seems to follow with no problem. My life is fine; I just feel different. Most of the people I'm close to have their own variety of different-drummer special-snowflakiness to some degree.
Who are the normal people? When people like me say they feel "different" or that they "don't fit in," who exactly are the people they feel different from?
Is there a set of personality traits that they have in common? Is there some sort of default or average personality that is fairly common, or that allows people to function better in mainstream society? If so, how many people fit that? How many people are out there who go about their day thinking, "I sure am a regular ol' guy"? Does this overlap with a lack of diagnosable mental illness? (I'm conflating mental health with averageness; maybe it's two different questions, but they seem related to me.)
And what does it feel like? What goes through the regular person's mind? What's it like to be free of psychological "differences," to have no traits or quirks that are pathologized or marginalized?
Or is this all a problem of perspective? Is the truth that everyone feels different and out of place, and some people are just way better at hiding it?
I feel like I've read so much about people's experiences with feeling and thinking differently, but there's not much at all about people who feel like they aren't so different, and I'm curious about that.
In part, this question is inspired by the "What's it like to have ADD?" question. I haven't been diagnosed with ADD, but the answers in that thread felt more familiar than foreign, and it left me wondering how people would describe the other side.
To give you a frame of reference on why I don't identify as "normal" (though I don't want this question to be about me): I'm very introverted; I've fought depression/dysthymia for a lot of my life; my psychiatrist believes I have social anxiety; I have a psychiatrist to begin with. In addition to that, all my life I've had trouble fitting in, and life and school and work have been full of little rules that everyone but me seems to follow with no problem. My life is fine; I just feel different. Most of the people I'm close to have their own variety of different-drummer special-snowflakiness to some degree.
Who are the normal people? When people like me say they feel "different" or that they "don't fit in," who exactly are the people they feel different from?
Is there a set of personality traits that they have in common? Is there some sort of default or average personality that is fairly common, or that allows people to function better in mainstream society? If so, how many people fit that? How many people are out there who go about their day thinking, "I sure am a regular ol' guy"? Does this overlap with a lack of diagnosable mental illness? (I'm conflating mental health with averageness; maybe it's two different questions, but they seem related to me.)
And what does it feel like? What goes through the regular person's mind? What's it like to be free of psychological "differences," to have no traits or quirks that are pathologized or marginalized?
Or is this all a problem of perspective? Is the truth that everyone feels different and out of place, and some people are just way better at hiding it?
I feel like I've read so much about people's experiences with feeling and thinking differently, but there's not much at all about people who feel like they aren't so different, and I'm curious about that.
I'm certainly abnormal in many, many respects. But I'm also very average and status quo in others and probably, so are you.
I think feeling "normal" is actually not quite a feeling at all. It's the feeling of not having the flu, the feeling of not being a 3-foot-tall (or 8-foot-tall) adult, the feeling of being a white male in North Dakota, the feeling of not having a conjoined twin, the feeling of not having an uncontrollable urge to pull your own hair out.
All the ways you fit in are nearly invisible to you and the number of ways you could, but don't, fit in are infinite and beyond constant consideration. The ways you stick out, though... those are the ones you feel.
posted by the jam at 12:40 PM on June 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
I think feeling "normal" is actually not quite a feeling at all. It's the feeling of not having the flu, the feeling of not being a 3-foot-tall (or 8-foot-tall) adult, the feeling of being a white male in North Dakota, the feeling of not having a conjoined twin, the feeling of not having an uncontrollable urge to pull your own hair out.
All the ways you fit in are nearly invisible to you and the number of ways you could, but don't, fit in are infinite and beyond constant consideration. The ways you stick out, though... those are the ones you feel.
posted by the jam at 12:40 PM on June 7, 2010 [6 favorites]
There is no there.
Maaaaaaan....
I think feeling "normal" is actually not quite a feeling at all. It's the feeling of not having the flu, the feeling of not being a 3-foot-tall (or 8-foot-tall) adult, the feeling of being a white male in North Dakota, the feeling of not having a conjoined twin, the feeling of not having an uncontrollable urge to pull your own hair out.
Beaten to the punch.
I think almost every adult living in a multiculturual society must feel this way. The only people to whom thoughts of otherness wouldn't occur would be, perhaps, members of isolated non-agricultural societies or (ironically) certain psychologically other people - some autistic individuals for instance.
posted by phrontist at 12:42 PM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Maaaaaaan....
I think feeling "normal" is actually not quite a feeling at all. It's the feeling of not having the flu, the feeling of not being a 3-foot-tall (or 8-foot-tall) adult, the feeling of being a white male in North Dakota, the feeling of not having a conjoined twin, the feeling of not having an uncontrollable urge to pull your own hair out.
Beaten to the punch.
I think almost every adult living in a multiculturual society must feel this way. The only people to whom thoughts of otherness wouldn't occur would be, perhaps, members of isolated non-agricultural societies or (ironically) certain psychologically other people - some autistic individuals for instance.
posted by phrontist at 12:42 PM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
I believe that growth, maturation, and emotional development start with our nature (genes), and then become a constant feedback loop between our reality, our reactions to it, and how we make sense of the two (beliefs).
On reddit, I saw a post that said, "What's your best advice in 5 words?" Here's mine: "Whatever you believe, you perceive."
Let's take a maladaptive set of beliefs: "I'm abnormal. People don't like me. I need meds in order to function." Take a "normal" person, give them those beliefs, and watch someone start to behave in very abnormal ways. Having crappy experiences at a young age is often how people get saddled with those beliefs. But once you've got them, they're murder to unstick because of the self-fulfilling prophecy.
So, to finally actually answer your question, "normal" is when people have experiences that form beliefs that make them behave in predictable ways.
posted by dualityofmind at 12:42 PM on June 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
On reddit, I saw a post that said, "What's your best advice in 5 words?" Here's mine: "Whatever you believe, you perceive."
Let's take a maladaptive set of beliefs: "I'm abnormal. People don't like me. I need meds in order to function." Take a "normal" person, give them those beliefs, and watch someone start to behave in very abnormal ways. Having crappy experiences at a young age is often how people get saddled with those beliefs. But once you've got them, they're murder to unstick because of the self-fulfilling prophecy.
So, to finally actually answer your question, "normal" is when people have experiences that form beliefs that make them behave in predictable ways.
posted by dualityofmind at 12:42 PM on June 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
a correction for that last part: "...the number of ways you could theoretically not, but do fit in are infinite..."
posted by the jam at 12:42 PM on June 7, 2010
posted by the jam at 12:42 PM on June 7, 2010
Oh, I hope all the answers don't deny the premise of the question... I definitely don't consider myself "normal," but many people do. (Just spend some time reading online dating profiles -- some of the most common words people use to describe themselves are "normal," "typical," etc.) I'd be really interested in hearing their honest answers to this question.
(And what makes you think that being a man in North Dakota doesn't feel like anything??)
posted by Jaltcoh at 12:44 PM on June 7, 2010
(And what makes you think that being a man in North Dakota doesn't feel like anything??)
posted by Jaltcoh at 12:44 PM on June 7, 2010
(By non-agricultural I mean societies that didn't go through all of the social changes that have historically accompanied agriculture - modern day neolithic folks)
posted by phrontist at 12:44 PM on June 7, 2010
posted by phrontist at 12:44 PM on June 7, 2010
And what makes you think that being a man in North Dakota doesn't feel like anything??
That was more about being a "white male" in a state where 94% of the population is white... and then some male privilege thrown in for good measure. Maybe I was trying to hit too many points with one stone, there.
posted by the jam at 12:49 PM on June 7, 2010
That was more about being a "white male" in a state where 94% of the population is white... and then some male privilege thrown in for good measure. Maybe I was trying to hit too many points with one stone, there.
posted by the jam at 12:49 PM on June 7, 2010
I feel normal. I've had depression for years, seen a shrink, I'm 14" shorter than my husband, all my cats have only one eye, I'm afraid of water, I hate smooth foods, I dislike chocolate and coffee, I sometimes feel outside and lonely, I find it hard to find people who share my interests sometimes. (This week, the "little rule" I can't figure out is how to schedule a party so it's convenient for people. I feel like everyone knows this but me!) I feel absolutely normal.
I think if you realize that you ARE normal, that feeling different and separate and alone (at least from time to time) are part of the human condition, you'll come to view yourself and your fellow human beings with a lot more compassion. Knowing that EVERYONE walks around, at least some of the time, feeling like they don't fit in, like they don't understand the rules, like others don't get them, this makes me feel so much compassion for the little insecurities and fears and pains that everyone feels. And, perversely, makes me feel my own far less.
Boy, you sure sound like a normal guy to me! :)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:51 PM on June 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
I think if you realize that you ARE normal, that feeling different and separate and alone (at least from time to time) are part of the human condition, you'll come to view yourself and your fellow human beings with a lot more compassion. Knowing that EVERYONE walks around, at least some of the time, feeling like they don't fit in, like they don't understand the rules, like others don't get them, this makes me feel so much compassion for the little insecurities and fears and pains that everyone feels. And, perversely, makes me feel my own far less.
Boy, you sure sound like a normal guy to me! :)
posted by Eyebrows McGee at 12:51 PM on June 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Someone who doesn't have an extreme version of anything listed in the DSV?
posted by Melismata at 12:54 PM on June 7, 2010
posted by Melismata at 12:54 PM on June 7, 2010
I can't help with studies or statistics, but here's an anecdote. I am more or less like you—I am fairly quiet and introverted; I was abused/neglected as a kid and have lived with severe depression and anxiety, and possibly PTSD, since I was about 10. I never fit in and, like you, I found myself wondering about all the "normal" people out there—were they really that normal on the inside? Did they just not feel any of the same things, or were they only good at hiding it?
I think the answer is a bit of both. I had a girlfriend once who was my complete opposite—I think I once described her as "aggressively functional." She is probably the most upbeat, genuinely "happy"-seeming person I've ever met, and she never dwells in the sort of foggy, anxious, depressive head-space that I sometimes fall into. Actually, when we first started going out, even as I was very attracted to her, I also found her baffling and very annoying. I couldn't believe there wasn't more to her than that.
Well, of course there was more to her, but it took some time (a few years) for me to work out what it was. She experienced self-doubt and insecurity and shame just like anybody else—and sometimes she was paralyzed by it. She had trouble with school and it was a struggle for her to come to grips with her sexuality. She wanted desperately for people to like her. However, while her problems flared up from time to time, they never consumed her the way mine sometimes did. I attribute this to her having a much more solid and healthy foundation of family relationships, but who knows? It could be luck of the draw. Why am I me, and you you?
tl;dr: People—all people, even the ones who look like they've never suffered anything worse than a dented fender or a spilled drink—are far more complicated than we know. Sometimes the people who appear most functional and "normal" are the ones who are most scared of what is dysfunctional and abnormal inside them. I imagine lots of people don't even allow themselves to think about all their secret weirdness, but that doesn't mean it's not there. At the same time, that weirdness may not be pathological the way it is for the rest of us.
Human beings are bottomless.
posted by cirripede at 12:56 PM on June 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
I think the answer is a bit of both. I had a girlfriend once who was my complete opposite—I think I once described her as "aggressively functional." She is probably the most upbeat, genuinely "happy"-seeming person I've ever met, and she never dwells in the sort of foggy, anxious, depressive head-space that I sometimes fall into. Actually, when we first started going out, even as I was very attracted to her, I also found her baffling and very annoying. I couldn't believe there wasn't more to her than that.
Well, of course there was more to her, but it took some time (a few years) for me to work out what it was. She experienced self-doubt and insecurity and shame just like anybody else—and sometimes she was paralyzed by it. She had trouble with school and it was a struggle for her to come to grips with her sexuality. She wanted desperately for people to like her. However, while her problems flared up from time to time, they never consumed her the way mine sometimes did. I attribute this to her having a much more solid and healthy foundation of family relationships, but who knows? It could be luck of the draw. Why am I me, and you you?
tl;dr: People—all people, even the ones who look like they've never suffered anything worse than a dented fender or a spilled drink—are far more complicated than we know. Sometimes the people who appear most functional and "normal" are the ones who are most scared of what is dysfunctional and abnormal inside them. I imagine lots of people don't even allow themselves to think about all their secret weirdness, but that doesn't mean it's not there. At the same time, that weirdness may not be pathological the way it is for the rest of us.
Human beings are bottomless.
posted by cirripede at 12:56 PM on June 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
Normal is a spectrum. My husband has ADD and could identify with almost every post in the thread you linked. However, I exhibit many of the same behaviors, and I don't have ADD. The difference is that the behaviors don't have a significant impact on the rest of my life. I do have an anxiety disorder. Everyone gets anxious and fearful sometimes, but for most people it doesn't impede them to the degree that they seek treatment. It's a continuum; there is no defined tipping point at which someone becomes normal or abnormal.
It's hard to notice the absence of something. Right now my foot doesn't hurt. It hasn't hurt for weeks or months or who knows how long, but I haven't thought about it at all until I started typing this. Someone with nerve damage or a broken foot would constantly notice it, though.
posted by desjardins at 1:01 PM on June 7, 2010
It's hard to notice the absence of something. Right now my foot doesn't hurt. It hasn't hurt for weeks or months or who knows how long, but I haven't thought about it at all until I started typing this. Someone with nerve damage or a broken foot would constantly notice it, though.
posted by desjardins at 1:01 PM on June 7, 2010
Georges Canguilhem may well be your theoretical friend here.
A very rough summary of his argument: Enlightenment medicine shifted away from polar models of sickness/health to a more Goldilocksian diagnostic spectrum, based upon classifications of hypo- and hyper-, and what isn't too much or too little becomes "just right", or at least "normal". These semiotic walls separating the normal from the pathological have unstable foundations, because the old dualities of symptom and sickness remain in place.
It's also not accidental that this shift towards sliding-scale pathology accompanies the emergence of the modern subjective, private self, newly juxtaposed against society.
posted by holgate at 1:01 PM on June 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
A very rough summary of his argument: Enlightenment medicine shifted away from polar models of sickness/health to a more Goldilocksian diagnostic spectrum, based upon classifications of hypo- and hyper-, and what isn't too much or too little becomes "just right", or at least "normal". These semiotic walls separating the normal from the pathological have unstable foundations, because the old dualities of symptom and sickness remain in place.
It's also not accidental that this shift towards sliding-scale pathology accompanies the emergence of the modern subjective, private self, newly juxtaposed against society.
posted by holgate at 1:01 PM on June 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
Who are the normal people? When people like me say they feel "different" or that they "don't fit in," who exactly are the people they feel different from?
And what does it feel like? What goes through the regular person's mind? What's it like to be free of psychological "differences," to have no traits or quirks that are pathologized or marginalized?
To me these are two separate questions. Dualityofmind, phrontist, jquinby upthread are answering you're first one. desjardins is answering your second one.
I feel pretty neurotypical. This doesn’t necessarily make me feel “normal” in an accepted-socially-by-divergent-groups-of-people-no-matter-what-social-context-I’m-in kind of way. I tend to do well with nerds and artsy types. Not so much with fashionistas. But what's different for me than what I read in the social anxiety threads seems to be that I don’t feel like I’m weird when rejected by a group with different values and interests. I just feel like the group isn’t a good match. I read the social anxiety and straight up anxiety threads with a mix of horror and fascination, because to me that fear seems batshit.* That amount of fear or stress over things that to me seem so little is literally incomprehensible. I cannot imagine letting the lizard brain run me like that, probably because my lizard brain isn’t as loud as the socially anxious person’s lizard brain. So neurotypical wise I would describe "normal" as emotional swings that stay in tightly confined range you get sad, happy, angry, and scared, but you don't get enraged, depressed, ecstatic, or petrified or if you do those feelings fade and level off quickly. You have your ups and downs but mostly you feel like your problems are manageable and seem similar to the problems and petty grievances of people around you. My reaction to reading about non-neurotypical stuff is generally "I guess I do a little bit of that, maybe I'm x." and then I keep reading and I say "Oh no. I don't do x, y, z. Nor do I do x to that degree. That sounds like it sucks." When people describe non-neurotypical things their brains do, to me it reads like a small thing my brain does gets the volume way turned up in theirs. Socially I often feel "other"-ed, but it's not a huge crisis, it's more "I am like this. Those people are like that." different strokes for different folks.
This from cirripide seems especially relevant.
However, while her problems flared up from time to time, they never consumed her the way mine sometimes did.
*Really trying to give an honest perspective not trying to make people feel bad.
posted by edbles at 1:31 PM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
And what does it feel like? What goes through the regular person's mind? What's it like to be free of psychological "differences," to have no traits or quirks that are pathologized or marginalized?
To me these are two separate questions. Dualityofmind, phrontist, jquinby upthread are answering you're first one. desjardins is answering your second one.
I feel pretty neurotypical. This doesn’t necessarily make me feel “normal” in an accepted-socially-by-divergent-groups-of-people-no-matter-what-social-context-I’m-in kind of way. I tend to do well with nerds and artsy types. Not so much with fashionistas. But what's different for me than what I read in the social anxiety threads seems to be that I don’t feel like I’m weird when rejected by a group with different values and interests. I just feel like the group isn’t a good match. I read the social anxiety and straight up anxiety threads with a mix of horror and fascination, because to me that fear seems batshit.* That amount of fear or stress over things that to me seem so little is literally incomprehensible. I cannot imagine letting the lizard brain run me like that, probably because my lizard brain isn’t as loud as the socially anxious person’s lizard brain. So neurotypical wise I would describe "normal" as emotional swings that stay in tightly confined range you get sad, happy, angry, and scared, but you don't get enraged, depressed, ecstatic, or petrified or if you do those feelings fade and level off quickly. You have your ups and downs but mostly you feel like your problems are manageable and seem similar to the problems and petty grievances of people around you. My reaction to reading about non-neurotypical stuff is generally "I guess I do a little bit of that, maybe I'm x." and then I keep reading and I say "Oh no. I don't do x, y, z. Nor do I do x to that degree. That sounds like it sucks." When people describe non-neurotypical things their brains do, to me it reads like a small thing my brain does gets the volume way turned up in theirs. Socially I often feel "other"-ed, but it's not a huge crisis, it's more "I am like this. Those people are like that." different strokes for different folks.
This from cirripide seems especially relevant.
However, while her problems flared up from time to time, they never consumed her the way mine sometimes did.
*Really trying to give an honest perspective not trying to make people feel bad.
posted by edbles at 1:31 PM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
People who are normal are undaunted* by normal life stresses. Their moods don't spin out of control.
It's not introverted versus extroverted, because those are just personality styles. You can be extroverted and anxious, and introverted and totally cool with the world.
posted by gjc at 5:59 AM on June 8, 2010
It's not introverted versus extroverted, because those are just personality styles. You can be extroverted and anxious, and introverted and totally cool with the world.
posted by gjc at 5:59 AM on June 8, 2010
I think the two most important ideas in "normal" are that it depends on context and it definitely occurs as a spectrum. I grew up a middle-class white girl in the Midwest. I was a little abnormal there. I went to a camp for "gifted" kids in the summers, where I was so shockingly normal (we were all weirdos in similar ways) I barely knew how to handle it. I moved to the Middle East, where I am so far from normal I am a cartoon. There's an international crowd in the town, though, and if we're together, we're each more normal in context.
Normal is when you can more or less comfortably fit in with the people and culture around you. Normal, headwise, is when you feel comfortable being honest with yourself and others, and when you can just be yourself without having to worry too much about it. Normal still involves happiness and sadness. Normal is also extremely culturally influenced.
posted by lauranesson at 9:20 AM on June 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
Normal is when you can more or less comfortably fit in with the people and culture around you. Normal, headwise, is when you feel comfortable being honest with yourself and others, and when you can just be yourself without having to worry too much about it. Normal still involves happiness and sadness. Normal is also extremely culturally influenced.
posted by lauranesson at 9:20 AM on June 8, 2010 [3 favorites]
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Or is this all a problem of perspective? Is the truth that everyone feels different and out of place, and some people are just way better at hiding it?
...is closest to the truth.
posted by jquinby at 12:37 PM on June 7, 2010 [1 favorite]