New house has old damage
May 3, 2010 8:30 AM Subscribe
We just closed on our house 3 days ago but just found some old water damaged walls. What options do we have?
So we closed on our house this past Friday and it's now Monday. Over the weekend we found a wall in the living room that has an exterior facing wall is full of old water damage. After tearing off the sheetrock we saw where a bunch of the wood was rotted and covered with bad stuff.
My question is what can we do now and/or who should we call? We could just fix it ourselves but I didn't know if we can do anything else. We certainly don't want to sue or get in something crazy like that. It's just one wall and we've checked the others.
Would calling our insurance company and asking what we should do be a bad thing?
So we closed on our house this past Friday and it's now Monday. Over the weekend we found a wall in the living room that has an exterior facing wall is full of old water damage. After tearing off the sheetrock we saw where a bunch of the wood was rotted and covered with bad stuff.
My question is what can we do now and/or who should we call? We could just fix it ourselves but I didn't know if we can do anything else. We certainly don't want to sue or get in something crazy like that. It's just one wall and we've checked the others.
Would calling our insurance company and asking what we should do be a bad thing?
Response by poster: There was a home inspection but it did not indicate anything like this.
posted by covert7 at 8:41 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by covert7 at 8:41 AM on May 3, 2010
We had water damage in our house, discovered more than a year after we moved in. We had our insurance company cover it. I wish we had not. We ended up making two different claims - we had damage in two rooms, discovered a while apart - and it SKYROCKETED our insurance costs. If we had to do it over, I would have fixed it ourselves, unless the cost of doing so would have been a lot more than it turned out to be. Part of the problem is you don't know how much it will turn out to be until you get some estimates. So, do that first, then decide whether you want to claim it.
Also, my understanding is that insurance claims somehow go into a big database, because our insurance people could look back and determine that there had been previous water damage to our house -- water damage that had not been disclosed to us. I don't know if we could have asked our insurance company to tell us that before we actually closed, and I dot' know if that means we're going to have trouble if we ever sell our house. YMMV, of course. Good luck!
posted by dpx.mfx at 8:46 AM on May 3, 2010
Also, my understanding is that insurance claims somehow go into a big database, because our insurance people could look back and determine that there had been previous water damage to our house -- water damage that had not been disclosed to us. I don't know if we could have asked our insurance company to tell us that before we actually closed, and I dot' know if that means we're going to have trouble if we ever sell our house. YMMV, of course. Good luck!
posted by dpx.mfx at 8:46 AM on May 3, 2010
Assuming your jurisdiction isn't somehow special, you have zero options against the sellers. You closed, you had an inspection period, you're done. You might have a cause of action against any inspectors you hired though. I don't think you're going to be able to get anyone to pay for it short of legal action. Your house, your problem.
posted by thesmophoron at 8:48 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by thesmophoron at 8:48 AM on May 3, 2010
Home Inspectors in many states are a joke. Often there are no education or experience requirements at all. I could print business cards and be a home inspector tomorrow if I wanted...
In some states the seller does have a legal responsibility to disclose all known damage. If you have reason to believe the seller knew about the water damage and hid it (ie - brand new sheet rock over rotted out framing) you might have a case. However, it might be way more trouble than it is worth.
posted by COD at 8:53 AM on May 3, 2010
In some states the seller does have a legal responsibility to disclose all known damage. If you have reason to believe the seller knew about the water damage and hid it (ie - brand new sheet rock over rotted out framing) you might have a case. However, it might be way more trouble than it is worth.
posted by COD at 8:53 AM on May 3, 2010
Response by poster: Yeah after reading the home inspection legalese document it basically boils down to a visual inspection only. So since they can't see through walls, tough luck on that front.
And I figured it would likely be best for us to handle this on our own since for now it's not going to be an extensive project thankfully. But I figured I'd ask considering this happened so soon after closing. Ah well, the joys of home ownership!!
posted by covert7 at 8:58 AM on May 3, 2010
And I figured it would likely be best for us to handle this on our own since for now it's not going to be an extensive project thankfully. But I figured I'd ask considering this happened so soon after closing. Ah well, the joys of home ownership!!
posted by covert7 at 8:58 AM on May 3, 2010
For fear of inciting the lawyer!lawyer!lawyer! crowds I almost didn't post, but I thought that in certain states there was a window of 3 days where you could rescind any contract?
posted by cashman at 9:12 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by cashman at 9:12 AM on May 3, 2010
You are going to end up fixing this yourself. What I would do is call an emergency flood specialist, the guys who come out and vacuum up the water when your place gets flooded. Ask them to recommend one or two contractors who come in after them to do restorative work. They may or may not know someone who does water damage restoration work on walls. These guys generally know how to make everything look good as new. While you have the wall(s) open, see if you can find the source of the damage and get that fixed at the same time. No need to do the whole thing over in six months to a year.
posted by Old Geezer at 9:15 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by Old Geezer at 9:15 AM on May 3, 2010
Response by poster: We spent the weekend in the flower bed outside this wall lowering the ground line and putting in a new drain system to move the water away from the house. Also it appears that the "weep holes" drilled into the brick are too low. So we're planning on filling them with silicone caulk and putting new holes up a good bit higher. We certainly want to fix this once and not sweat it again...
posted by covert7 at 9:23 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by covert7 at 9:23 AM on May 3, 2010
Some home inspectors do offer warranties and carry insurance to pay for things they missed. (I have a friend who used to be a HouseMaster home inspector and I know they do.) It might be worth a call to your inspector to find out what, if anything, he can do. Probably nothing, but you'll never know if you don't call.
posted by kindall at 9:43 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by kindall at 9:43 AM on May 3, 2010
covert7 writes "Also it appears that the 'weep holes' drilled into the brick are too low. So we're planning on filling them with silicone caulk and putting new holes up a good bit higher."
Generally speaking brick weep holes are at the foundation flashing level to let water that condenses behind the brick a means of escape. Water won't travel up hill so if you relocate your weep holes higher you will trap water between the wall and the brick to the height of the new weep holes resulting in mold and rot where the water pools. If your weep holes are below grade then you need to regrade the area near the wall.
posted by Mitheral at 9:43 AM on May 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Generally speaking brick weep holes are at the foundation flashing level to let water that condenses behind the brick a means of escape. Water won't travel up hill so if you relocate your weep holes higher you will trap water between the wall and the brick to the height of the new weep holes resulting in mold and rot where the water pools. If your weep holes are below grade then you need to regrade the area near the wall.
posted by Mitheral at 9:43 AM on May 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
After tearing off the sheetrock we saw where a bunch of the wood was rotted and covered with bad stuff.
By "bad stuff," do you mean mold?
I think calling your insurance company is the last thing you should do. They're not going to help you and might use it against you. If you need help finding a good contractor, I might ask your real estate agent, your mortgage broker or bank, or your friends. If you call those 24-hour water damage emergency places, they'll try to get you to do business with them, and I'm guessing they'll be more expensive.
posted by slidell at 10:12 AM on May 3, 2010
By "bad stuff," do you mean mold?
I think calling your insurance company is the last thing you should do. They're not going to help you and might use it against you. If you need help finding a good contractor, I might ask your real estate agent, your mortgage broker or bank, or your friends. If you call those 24-hour water damage emergency places, they'll try to get you to do business with them, and I'm guessing they'll be more expensive.
posted by slidell at 10:12 AM on May 3, 2010
If the seller knowingly hid the damage, and if you can prove it, you may have a case against them and the realtor. You said that the damage was covered, did it look as if the drywall was replaced? If so then the previous owners must have known. My first stop would be the realtor. Explain your 'proof', and tell him/her that this damage should have been disclosed. Come armed with an estimate of repair, and a letter from your contractor stating his opinion on the age of the damage, and repairs.
posted by Gungho at 10:30 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by Gungho at 10:30 AM on May 3, 2010
I thought that in certain states there was a window of 3 days where you could rescind any contract?
That may be the case, but it's not likely to matter. The piece of paper you have isn't a contract, it's a deed. Property law and contract law interplay in complicated and sometimes mysterious ways. I'm willing to bet that the statute in question, if it exists in your jurisdiction, specifically applies it to service contracts or contracts for the sale of goods.
If the seller knowingly hid the damage, and if you can prove it, you may have a case against them and the realtor.
The background rule is, as always, caveat emptor. There are exceptions where there's a material misrepresentation or fraud, but rarely does mere failure to disclose trigger that. The test in this case is whether the defect was unlikely to be discovered by a prudent purchaser exercising due care. You closed on Friday and discovered the damage on Saturday, maybe Sunday at the latest. Without more detail, I'm going to have to assume that a reasonably competent inspection would have discovered it. Unless your jurisdiction has unusually buyer-friendly rules, I am pretty confident you're out of luck w/r/t the seller legally.
You can always appeal to the seller's sense of fairness before bringing up possible legal action. The seller may be willing to help, especially if you live in a small community. But if it were me I'd probably be talking to the inspector or just biting the bullet and paying for it.
posted by thesmophoron at 11:35 AM on May 3, 2010
That may be the case, but it's not likely to matter. The piece of paper you have isn't a contract, it's a deed. Property law and contract law interplay in complicated and sometimes mysterious ways. I'm willing to bet that the statute in question, if it exists in your jurisdiction, specifically applies it to service contracts or contracts for the sale of goods.
If the seller knowingly hid the damage, and if you can prove it, you may have a case against them and the realtor.
The background rule is, as always, caveat emptor. There are exceptions where there's a material misrepresentation or fraud, but rarely does mere failure to disclose trigger that. The test in this case is whether the defect was unlikely to be discovered by a prudent purchaser exercising due care. You closed on Friday and discovered the damage on Saturday, maybe Sunday at the latest. Without more detail, I'm going to have to assume that a reasonably competent inspection would have discovered it. Unless your jurisdiction has unusually buyer-friendly rules, I am pretty confident you're out of luck w/r/t the seller legally.
You can always appeal to the seller's sense of fairness before bringing up possible legal action. The seller may be willing to help, especially if you live in a small community. But if it were me I'd probably be talking to the inspector or just biting the bullet and paying for it.
posted by thesmophoron at 11:35 AM on May 3, 2010
(I will say that our insurance company was great to work with in terms of fixing the damage, and helping us figure out what to do and who to call to get the walls/mold/everything fixed. They just jacked the rates on us after that. So I'm not sure if it's the LAST thing I would do, I just would only do it if the expense warrants.)
posted by dpx.mfx at 11:53 AM on May 3, 2010
posted by dpx.mfx at 11:53 AM on May 3, 2010
...Also, my understanding is that insurance claims somehow go into a big database...
Yes, you're referring to the Choicepoint CLUE database
posted by de void at 12:00 PM on May 3, 2010
Yes, you're referring to the Choicepoint CLUE database
posted by de void at 12:00 PM on May 3, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks for the feedback folks, it's kind of what I expected but just wanted to get a feel for others thoughts.
Since the damage is likely to be less expensive/time consuming than calling in lawyers or getting the insurance company involved I think we're just going to fix it up ourselves and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Thanks again for all the opinions!
posted by covert7 at 1:58 PM on May 3, 2010
Since the damage is likely to be less expensive/time consuming than calling in lawyers or getting the insurance company involved I think we're just going to fix it up ourselves and make sure it doesn't happen again.
Thanks again for all the opinions!
posted by covert7 at 1:58 PM on May 3, 2010
cashman: In general, the Federal three-day cooling off rules do not apply to real estate. State laws may vary.
posted by dhartung at 12:24 AM on May 4, 2010
posted by dhartung at 12:24 AM on May 4, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by SirStan at 8:30 AM on May 3, 2010