Will the goverment torture me?
February 25, 2010 9:15 PM Subscribe
If I go to a local engineering college and a friend of mine turns out to be a terrorist, will the government torture me? Or am I just being paranoid?
Hey, I'm probably going to UTD, a local college in the Dallas area to study computer science. I love the field and it's a very well-recognized school in computer science and engineering with lots of international students. However, being the incorrigible libertarian that I am, especially with views about Israeli-American relations that would get me targeted as "anti-semitic" to boot, I'm a little worried about this and this. I mean, it's not like I'm just being a total tinfoil-hat-black-helicopters guy, am I? Or am I? Kinda scary, right? What do y'all think?
Hey, I'm probably going to UTD, a local college in the Dallas area to study computer science. I love the field and it's a very well-recognized school in computer science and engineering with lots of international students. However, being the incorrigible libertarian that I am, especially with views about Israeli-American relations that would get me targeted as "anti-semitic" to boot, I'm a little worried about this and this. I mean, it's not like I'm just being a total tinfoil-hat-black-helicopters guy, am I? Or am I? Kinda scary, right? What do y'all think?
Response by poster: Thank you. I can be overexcitable sometimes.
posted by bookman117 at 9:24 PM on February 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by bookman117 at 9:24 PM on February 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
No, you're definitely being a total tinfoil-hat-black-helicopters guy if you think that you're going to be tortured if you go to engineering school.
something engineers something something tests something i'll be here all week folks! try the lamb
posted by The Bridge on the River Kai Ryssdal at 9:27 PM on February 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
something engineers something something tests something i'll be here all week folks! try the lamb
posted by The Bridge on the River Kai Ryssdal at 9:27 PM on February 25, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Wow, this is embarrassing. Another stupid question. I've already had several deleted already. Then again, where's a better place to ask dumbass questions than here?
posted by bookman117 at 9:29 PM on February 25, 2010
posted by bookman117 at 9:29 PM on February 25, 2010
Wow, this is embarrassing. Another stupid question. I've already had several deleted already. Then again, where's a better place to ask dumbass questions than here?
I think you're worrying too much again. Whether or not this is deleted, your question was still answered, right?
posted by The Potate at 9:34 PM on February 25, 2010
I think you're worrying too much again. Whether or not this is deleted, your question was still answered, right?
posted by The Potate at 9:34 PM on February 25, 2010
guy, relax, we're just glad we could help calm you down about this and you didn't spend any more time worrying over it. not a question wasted.
posted by Solon and Thanks at 9:35 PM on February 25, 2010
posted by Solon and Thanks at 9:35 PM on February 25, 2010
Response by poster: Thanks. Still, I'm kinda embarrassed, but how do I know this isn't going to happen? I mean, strictly speaking, nobody can know anything about the future at anytime, but I'm not sure where they draw the line on this thing and I would almost rather die than go through this. Oh well, I'm not crazy, I'm just worried about it like on a "what if an asteroid hits the earth and blocks out the sun and kills everybody" kinda level right now and so there's really nothing to worry about. Almost. At any rate, just don't worry about it; I'm kinda embarrassed about this since apparently it's a ridiculous fear but I'll be fine.
posted by bookman117 at 9:50 PM on February 25, 2010
posted by bookman117 at 9:50 PM on February 25, 2010
Nothing is going to happen. Suppose a friend of yours does turn out to be a terrorist. The eternal narrative these days is the surprise of many people that knew a given terrorist and the fact that only a few ever wondered. The lesson here is (a) nothing will happen except maybe you'll get a quote sounding dumbfounded in some paper and (b) there isn't shit you can do about it and thus there's no reason to worry.
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 9:57 PM on February 25, 2010
posted by Inspector.Gadget at 9:57 PM on February 25, 2010
You don't know it isn't going to happen. But I'd guess the probability is a couple of orders of magnitude less than winning the lottery, getting struck by lightning, or dying of a shark attack.
If you want to worry about something realistic, worry about getting killed by a drunk driver or getting cancer. Those things are much worse and much more likely.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:14 PM on February 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you want to worry about something realistic, worry about getting killed by a drunk driver or getting cancer. Those things are much worse and much more likely.
posted by qxntpqbbbqxl at 10:14 PM on February 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Still, I'm kinda embarrassed, but how do I know this isn't going to happen? I mean, strictly speaking, nobody can know anything about the future at anytime
Here are some links to thought-stopping resources.
posted by mlis at 10:20 PM on February 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Here are some links to thought-stopping resources.
posted by mlis at 10:20 PM on February 25, 2010 [1 favorite]
Y'all are freaking out.
I've worked as a software engineer for years alongside a very large number of Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and Christians from virtually every country you've ever heard of. Of all those people the only ones I've ever actually worried about were the well-armed Libertarians (invariably American and white) who were just storing up money to they could retire to their bunker in Idaho before the inevitable coming of martial law to the U.S.
Those are the people I expect the Feds to show up and start interrogating me about. Many of them also appear on my list of People Who May Shoot Up The Office One Day.
In short, the odds of you actually meeting someone who goes on to be a terrorist are vanishingly small, and the only likely outcome of hanging out with them will be the Feds asking you some questions. Try to avoid people who's sole goal in life appears to be accumulating blueprints of federal buildings and don't offer to store any ammonium nitrate for anyone and you should be okay.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:36 PM on February 25, 2010 [8 favorites]
I've worked as a software engineer for years alongside a very large number of Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and Christians from virtually every country you've ever heard of. Of all those people the only ones I've ever actually worried about were the well-armed Libertarians (invariably American and white) who were just storing up money to they could retire to their bunker in Idaho before the inevitable coming of martial law to the U.S.
Those are the people I expect the Feds to show up and start interrogating me about. Many of them also appear on my list of People Who May Shoot Up The Office One Day.
In short, the odds of you actually meeting someone who goes on to be a terrorist are vanishingly small, and the only likely outcome of hanging out with them will be the Feds asking you some questions. Try to avoid people who's sole goal in life appears to be accumulating blueprints of federal buildings and don't offer to store any ammonium nitrate for anyone and you should be okay.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:36 PM on February 25, 2010 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Of all those people the only ones I've ever actually worried about were the well-armed Libertarians (invariably American and white) who were just storing up money to they could retire to their bunker in Idaho before the inevitable coming of martial law to the U.S.
Lol, yeah, I didn't wanna look like those guys. You know, it's sort of funny that my primary concern about the possibility of encountering a soon-to-be terrorist at school was the idea that the Feds would come in and do shit to me. Somehow I doubt that would be the first thing that would cross most people's minds. I realized this when I posted this, but it's even funnier now that it seems like everybody universally agrees that I was indeed having paranoid fantasies about the police state.
posted by bookman117 at 10:55 PM on February 25, 2010
Lol, yeah, I didn't wanna look like those guys. You know, it's sort of funny that my primary concern about the possibility of encountering a soon-to-be terrorist at school was the idea that the Feds would come in and do shit to me. Somehow I doubt that would be the first thing that would cross most people's minds. I realized this when I posted this, but it's even funnier now that it seems like everybody universally agrees that I was indeed having paranoid fantasies about the police state.
posted by bookman117 at 10:55 PM on February 25, 2010
Best answer: My brother actually had to deal with something very similar, so I can answer your question almost directly!
As you may recall, Saudi hijackers flew two airplanes into two tall, symbolic buildings in New York on 11 September 2001. As chance would have it, my brother had gone to one of the top flight technology programs on the US West Coast, offered by Lane Community College (Eugene, Oregon), and graduated earlier that year (2001). As it is a highly respected school, it gets several international students, including Saudis. And being an open-minded, well-travelled guy, my brother quickly made friends with a few of them.
After 9/11, all of the Saudis who'd studied at LCC were questioned, as were the flight instructors, but it happened quickly and without much drama. No other students were questioned, my brother included. The Saudis my brother knew were all upstanding people, and didn't have any problems (apart from feeling very, very nervous, obviously).
I don't think you have anything to worry about.
posted by fraula at 12:20 AM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
As you may recall, Saudi hijackers flew two airplanes into two tall, symbolic buildings in New York on 11 September 2001. As chance would have it, my brother had gone to one of the top flight technology programs on the US West Coast, offered by Lane Community College (Eugene, Oregon), and graduated earlier that year (2001). As it is a highly respected school, it gets several international students, including Saudis. And being an open-minded, well-travelled guy, my brother quickly made friends with a few of them.
After 9/11, all of the Saudis who'd studied at LCC were questioned, as were the flight instructors, but it happened quickly and without much drama. No other students were questioned, my brother included. The Saudis my brother knew were all upstanding people, and didn't have any problems (apart from feeling very, very nervous, obviously).
I don't think you have anything to worry about.
posted by fraula at 12:20 AM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Please make a few friends from other countries and realize that while people from Places That Are Not Here may talk funny and eat weird food, that doesn't make them the hellbent psycho baby-eating killers American TV would rather you believe.
Props for asking the question, though. A lot of folks would just avoid doing anything outside their comfort zone, since if you don't verbalize fear of the unknown it doesn't seem so silly.
posted by miyabo at 5:31 AM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Props for asking the question, though. A lot of folks would just avoid doing anything outside their comfort zone, since if you don't verbalize fear of the unknown it doesn't seem so silly.
posted by miyabo at 5:31 AM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: As an aside, from the Andrew Sullivan link you referenced, the individual was in the military AND overseas. In one you have somewhat curtailed rights and for the latter, that's more of their jurisdiction if you can call it that.
If you were suspected of being a terrorist in the US, you would be approached by the FBI, who do not torture. (In fact, it was a former FBI agent who came out against the CIA's harsh interrogation techniques as being unnecessary to gain useful information).
posted by Atreides at 6:29 AM on February 26, 2010
If you were suspected of being a terrorist in the US, you would be approached by the FBI, who do not torture. (In fact, it was a former FBI agent who came out against the CIA's harsh interrogation techniques as being unnecessary to gain useful information).
posted by Atreides at 6:29 AM on February 26, 2010
I think the right-wing caricature in your head of the hateful federal government putting innocents from the suburbs in a truck and off to a torture/gulag serves libertarian demagogues and sells ads, but doesn't have much in common with reality. Unless you're an armed fighter in either Iraq or Afghanistan, I doubt this should be a real worry.
You have a better chance of being killed on the drive to school or being shot by a home invader.
being the incorrigible libertarian that I am
Err, you'll find that holding "libertarian" views isn't enough for anyone to care about you enough to even put you on a list, let alone kidnap and torture you. Unfortunately, assuming that you will be kidnapped and tortured by the government for being outspoken seems to be a mainstream libertarian view.
posted by damn dirty ape at 7:53 AM on February 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
You have a better chance of being killed on the drive to school or being shot by a home invader.
being the incorrigible libertarian that I am
Err, you'll find that holding "libertarian" views isn't enough for anyone to care about you enough to even put you on a list, let alone kidnap and torture you. Unfortunately, assuming that you will be kidnapped and tortured by the government for being outspoken seems to be a mainstream libertarian view.
posted by damn dirty ape at 7:53 AM on February 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
Response by poster: Please make a few friends from other countries and realize that while people from Places That Are Not Here may talk funny and eat weird food, that doesn't make them the hellbent psycho baby-eating killers American TV would rather you believe.
Dude, I realize the American media is ridiculous about this sort of stuff; in fact, part of the whole reason I was asking this question was that my views about American involvement in the Middle East and its relationship with Israel probably more closely matches that of the average Muslim than the average white guy Joe Shmoe American. Aside from the fact that where I'm going probably has a much higher likelihood of harboring potential terrorists than just about anywhere else in America, one of the things I was worried about what would happen if the Feds were to discover, say, anti-Israeli messages I had exchanged with the guy on Facebook.
right-wing caricature in your head
Gah, the idea that every political opinion must somehow fit into some trite constricting left-right dichotomy created to divide everybody and serve establishment media and political interests infuriates me to no end. Just don't pigeonhole me, and you won't have to hear that whole damned rant. Lol, this thread is really kinda going off-topic.
posted by bookman117 at 9:58 AM on February 26, 2010
Dude, I realize the American media is ridiculous about this sort of stuff; in fact, part of the whole reason I was asking this question was that my views about American involvement in the Middle East and its relationship with Israel probably more closely matches that of the average Muslim than the average white guy Joe Shmoe American. Aside from the fact that where I'm going probably has a much higher likelihood of harboring potential terrorists than just about anywhere else in America, one of the things I was worried about what would happen if the Feds were to discover, say, anti-Israeli messages I had exchanged with the guy on Facebook.
right-wing caricature in your head
Gah, the idea that every political opinion must somehow fit into some trite constricting left-right dichotomy created to divide everybody and serve establishment media and political interests infuriates me to no end. Just don't pigeonhole me, and you won't have to hear that whole damned rant. Lol, this thread is really kinda going off-topic.
posted by bookman117 at 9:58 AM on February 26, 2010
Just don't pigeonhole me
Then why start with announcing what your political views are?
Look, you've gotten a lot of good advice (and some snarking). If your primary worry is being black-helicoptered away because of your views and your path of study, then you might want to reconsider your path of study, since being that paranoid is going to interfere with your schoolwork. There are hundreds of thousands of engineering students in this country; undoubtedly, many of them hold unorthodox/non-mainstream/unpopular political views, and yet there seems to be an absence them being "disappeared".
You would do much better to worry more about your classwork and less about being kidnapped and tortured by the government. As someone else said, you have a much higher chance of being hit by a car or getting into a car accident on your way to school.
posted by rtha at 11:12 AM on February 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
Then why start with announcing what your political views are?
Look, you've gotten a lot of good advice (and some snarking). If your primary worry is being black-helicoptered away because of your views and your path of study, then you might want to reconsider your path of study, since being that paranoid is going to interfere with your schoolwork. There are hundreds of thousands of engineering students in this country; undoubtedly, many of them hold unorthodox/non-mainstream/unpopular political views, and yet there seems to be an absence them being "disappeared".
You would do much better to worry more about your classwork and less about being kidnapped and tortured by the government. As someone else said, you have a much higher chance of being hit by a car or getting into a car accident on your way to school.
posted by rtha at 11:12 AM on February 26, 2010 [2 favorites]
Aside from the fact that where I'm going probably has a much higher likelihood of harboring potential terrorists than just about anywhere else in America...
Source? Seriously, I'd like to read more about this.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 11:20 AM on February 26, 2010
Source? Seriously, I'd like to read more about this.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 11:20 AM on February 26, 2010
Have you actually looked at your "evidence"? Someone from the ADL called someone an an anti-semite for political opposition to Israel? Great heavens, what's next, an astronomer calling the Sun "very hot?" A letter to Andrew Sullivan from some anonymous reader who's brother hasn't actually been tortured or threatened with torture or apparently investigated or talked to or looked at funny by anyone, but he's "worried" about him getting tortured because he - get this- has been reading too much Andrew Sullivan! And a Slate piece about an academic paper that studied only Middle Eastern and African radical Islamic terrorists? The case you are making for apprehension is absurd and your contention that your entirely ordinary and not particularly controversial beliefs are going to get you labeled as a radical is unsupported by evidence.
posted by nanojath at 11:50 AM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by nanojath at 11:50 AM on February 26, 2010 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Thank you. I can be overexcitable sometimes.
You can get meds for that.
No, seriously. Get some meds.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:21 PM on February 26, 2010
You can get meds for that.
No, seriously. Get some meds.
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:21 PM on February 26, 2010
Response by poster: Lol, my last comment was merely trying to communicate to miyabo, which I thought iIhad communicated perfectly well with my initial question, that my concern wasn't that I would be meeting scary Muslim dudes who eat hummus and whose names aren't anything like Bob and Susie, but precisely that such people would identify me as being too close to them for their liking and that the government would descend on me if for whatever reason something were to happen. Lol, I'm not actually worried about it anymore, but some of these comments from people who think I'm having a nervous breakdown over here over the possibility that such a think might happen is pretty hilarious, if somewhat embarrassing. I really wasn't even that worried about it to begin with, knowing the possibility was quite low, I just didn't quite know how distinct it was and what de facto rights I would have and whatnot. I'm not at all worried about it to the point of adversely affecting my studies, and that somebody would think that kinda shows how ridiculously hilarious and yet somewhat embarrassing this whole thread has gotten. I guess when somebody says they're scared of being tortured, you tend to assume they're pulling their hair out and soiling their pants. Anyway, lol, thanks guys, I'm done.
posted by bookman117 at 5:10 PM on February 26, 2010
posted by bookman117 at 5:10 PM on February 26, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by zachlipton at 9:21 PM on February 25, 2010 [1 favorite]