Bill Clinton or John Edwards?
February 21, 2010 9:27 AM Subscribe
Could it be better to stay with a known liar than take my chances on a new boyfriend?
In the first few months when I began seeing my boyfriend, he lied to me about a bunch of things, mostly other women. He never quite technically cheated on me, but he did a bunch of shady things and told direct lies.
I had already let myself fall pretty hard for him by the time I found out about all this, so I tried to work through it with him.
In the beginning, I did a lot of spying up on him and double checking the things he said, when things seemed off. I felt terrible for doing this, but it was the only way I could stay in the relationship without constant worry about what the truth was. He never caught on that I was spying on him or the extent of what I was able to find out. I did catch him in some more lies, less serious ones. I confronted him about some of them, others I remained silent about.
Over time two things happened.
-He started lying less and less.
-When he does lie, I recognize it so much better.
As I started getting better at noticing when he is lying, first, I would be able to tell it was happening before I even spied on him to verify it.
Second, as even more time went on, I stopped feeling the urge to verify anything because I could tell so often when he was lying without even needing that.
Obviously since I am writing this, I'm still unsettled in this relationship. But when I think of taking my chances on a new boyfriend, that almost seems like a worse idea.
It's because when my boyfriend lies, it's expected and familiar, and I know how to deal with it.
But if I had a sweet, loving, seemingly honest husband for 30 years, who just packed up and left me one day for his secretary or something? That would be an infinitely worse blow. It would be so much more of a trauma and a shock to my system. It is so much more frightening. For example, if I went through what John Edwards' wife went through -husband of 30 years has a love child with another woman while you are in treatment for terminal cancer- I don't think I'd be able to recover from that. And I don't think that kind of infidelity is that unlikely of a scenario. How many marriages end in divorce at this point?
So is it better to stay with the known quantity, or take a chance on an unknown quantity with the potential to be so much worse?
In the first few months when I began seeing my boyfriend, he lied to me about a bunch of things, mostly other women. He never quite technically cheated on me, but he did a bunch of shady things and told direct lies.
I had already let myself fall pretty hard for him by the time I found out about all this, so I tried to work through it with him.
In the beginning, I did a lot of spying up on him and double checking the things he said, when things seemed off. I felt terrible for doing this, but it was the only way I could stay in the relationship without constant worry about what the truth was. He never caught on that I was spying on him or the extent of what I was able to find out. I did catch him in some more lies, less serious ones. I confronted him about some of them, others I remained silent about.
Over time two things happened.
-He started lying less and less.
-When he does lie, I recognize it so much better.
As I started getting better at noticing when he is lying, first, I would be able to tell it was happening before I even spied on him to verify it.
Second, as even more time went on, I stopped feeling the urge to verify anything because I could tell so often when he was lying without even needing that.
Obviously since I am writing this, I'm still unsettled in this relationship. But when I think of taking my chances on a new boyfriend, that almost seems like a worse idea.
It's because when my boyfriend lies, it's expected and familiar, and I know how to deal with it.
But if I had a sweet, loving, seemingly honest husband for 30 years, who just packed up and left me one day for his secretary or something? That would be an infinitely worse blow. It would be so much more of a trauma and a shock to my system. It is so much more frightening. For example, if I went through what John Edwards' wife went through -husband of 30 years has a love child with another woman while you are in treatment for terminal cancer- I don't think I'd be able to recover from that. And I don't think that kind of infidelity is that unlikely of a scenario. How many marriages end in divorce at this point?
So is it better to stay with the known quantity, or take a chance on an unknown quantity with the potential to be so much worse?
...or so much better! Seriously, the odds are in your favor for better than worse. Your boyfriend doesn't sound that great.
posted by iamkimiam at 9:30 AM on February 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by iamkimiam at 9:30 AM on February 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
What happens when/if you don't the next lie? Are you going to go through life spying on him? I think you know the answer.
posted by gadha at 9:31 AM on February 21, 2010
posted by gadha at 9:31 AM on February 21, 2010
Also, I'd rather be single and free to do whatever I want than with a crappy boyfriend or cheating husband.
posted by iamkimiam at 9:32 AM on February 21, 2010 [26 favorites]
posted by iamkimiam at 9:32 AM on February 21, 2010 [26 favorites]
What are the chances your next boyfriend will lie to you and reveal his 30 year long fling while you're in cancer treatment, or perpetuate some other deception, devastating you utterly? Less than 1%. It could be reasonably argued it's closer to zero percent.
What are the chances your current boyfriend will lie to you again? 100%.
Now what do you think you should do?
posted by majick at 9:33 AM on February 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
What are the chances your current boyfriend will lie to you again? 100%.
Now what do you think you should do?
posted by majick at 9:33 AM on February 21, 2010 [4 favorites]
You don't actually have to have any boyfriend. It's better to have no partner than one who's bad for you.
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:34 AM on February 21, 2010 [20 favorites]
posted by Metroid Baby at 9:34 AM on February 21, 2010 [20 favorites]
It is not inevitable that your boyfriend will lie to or cheat on you. You can and should find a new one who is much better than your current boyfriend. Don't settle for the crap this guy is giving you.
posted by lilac girl at 9:37 AM on February 21, 2010
posted by lilac girl at 9:37 AM on February 21, 2010
There is no situation in which staying with a known liar is preferable to the unknown, in my opinion. You are creating completely unrealistic scenarios to convince yourself that there is any reason at all to stay with this guy. Sometimes bad things happen, regardless of whether the person seems [or is] nice. Part of being an adult is that you work on yourself and your own ways of managing conflict and unforseen downturns, not try to set everything up perfectly so you can have true righteous "but I thought of everything!" indignation when things don't go your way. People, including you, can recover from some nasty shit.
The real question is how much you want to live in this worst-case scenario land while other people are spending their time having loving trust-building relationships with their normal ups and downs. Saying "well at least I know the downsides" is cold comfort for being in a long term relationship with a liar and my guess is that you know this.
posted by jessamyn at 9:39 AM on February 21, 2010 [10 favorites]
The real question is how much you want to live in this worst-case scenario land while other people are spending their time having loving trust-building relationships with their normal ups and downs. Saying "well at least I know the downsides" is cold comfort for being in a long term relationship with a liar and my guess is that you know this.
posted by jessamyn at 9:39 AM on February 21, 2010 [10 favorites]
No, but you really know that. Quite apart from anything, lying to someone about important stuff is frequently a sign of disrespect. Having to lie about something isn't great either.
As said above, life isn't neatly divided into shits you know and shits you don't yet know. Plenty of people have normal, trusting relationships. You might as well give yourself a chance at being one of them.
posted by MuffinMan at 9:39 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
As said above, life isn't neatly divided into shits you know and shits you don't yet know. Plenty of people have normal, trusting relationships. You might as well give yourself a chance at being one of them.
posted by MuffinMan at 9:39 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Why are you choosing between the Bill Clintons and John Edwardses when there are Barack Obamas out there?
posted by sallybrown at 9:41 AM on February 21, 2010 [33 favorites]
posted by sallybrown at 9:41 AM on February 21, 2010 [33 favorites]
Seconding Meteroid Baby. As my grandmother says: "Better to be alone than in poor company."
You are not choosing between having your current boyfriend and having some imaginary other bad boyfriend. You are choosing between having this boyfriend or not having this boyfriend. You will likely later have to make complete separate decisions about whether to date man X or not date man X. And then whether to date man Y or not date man Y, etc. Don't confuse these decisions. You're not choosing from a menu of men some of whom aren't actually described on the menu. You're "inspectinging" individual men one at a time and deciding in each case if you're better off with or without them.
You're better of without this man. Leave the decision about the next one until you know who the next man is.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:42 AM on February 21, 2010
You are not choosing between having your current boyfriend and having some imaginary other bad boyfriend. You are choosing between having this boyfriend or not having this boyfriend. You will likely later have to make complete separate decisions about whether to date man X or not date man X. And then whether to date man Y or not date man Y, etc. Don't confuse these decisions. You're not choosing from a menu of men some of whom aren't actually described on the menu. You're "inspectinging" individual men one at a time and deciding in each case if you're better off with or without them.
You're better of without this man. Leave the decision about the next one until you know who the next man is.
posted by If only I had a penguin... at 9:42 AM on February 21, 2010
Why are you with someone who disrespects you?
What if he's gotten better at lying? You may not have gotten as good at "catching" him as you think.
What if you stay with him for 30 years, putting up with the lying and the uncertainty, and he leaves you anyway?
Why do you think your choices are A) stay with lying boyfriend; B) dump lying boyfriend, and get another boyfriend who's just as bad, if not worse?
Imagining what your non-existent husband might do in 30 years is getting a little ahead of yourself. Don't borrow trouble.
posted by rtha at 9:46 AM on February 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
What if he's gotten better at lying? You may not have gotten as good at "catching" him as you think.
What if you stay with him for 30 years, putting up with the lying and the uncertainty, and he leaves you anyway?
Why do you think your choices are A) stay with lying boyfriend; B) dump lying boyfriend, and get another boyfriend who's just as bad, if not worse?
Imagining what your non-existent husband might do in 30 years is getting a little ahead of yourself. Don't borrow trouble.
posted by rtha at 9:46 AM on February 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
I would not tolerate a pattern of lies for longer than it takes to say, "See ya." Under any circumstances that I can contemplate. I would rather be alone than lied to.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:46 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:46 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
One more thing...are you lying to your boyfriend? Are you cheating on him? Do you think you're the only human in the world capable of such honesty?
Go out there and find somebody more like you. There are lots of them out there. Hell, you might get lucky and find somebody even more open & honest than you. That'll blow your mind. (In a good way.)
posted by iamkimiam at 9:56 AM on February 21, 2010
Go out there and find somebody more like you. There are lots of them out there. Hell, you might get lucky and find somebody even more open & honest than you. That'll blow your mind. (In a good way.)
posted by iamkimiam at 9:56 AM on February 21, 2010
nobody here thinks "Seek therapy?"
cause I do. the fact that you think the only choices that exist are bad boyfriend and worse boyfriend tells me you have pathologically low expectations of the world and for yourself. other choices you're not considering - maybe because you can't see them or can't apply them to yourself - include no boyfriend and great boyfriend.
seek help to find out why you don't think you deserve better, or that nothing better exists.
posted by toodleydoodley at 9:58 AM on February 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
cause I do. the fact that you think the only choices that exist are bad boyfriend and worse boyfriend tells me you have pathologically low expectations of the world and for yourself. other choices you're not considering - maybe because you can't see them or can't apply them to yourself - include no boyfriend and great boyfriend.
seek help to find out why you don't think you deserve better, or that nothing better exists.
posted by toodleydoodley at 9:58 AM on February 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
No, it's not better to stay with a known liar. This totally prevents you from creating a new "known" future for yourself based on honesty, trust, and self respect.
posted by Elsie at 10:01 AM on February 21, 2010
posted by Elsie at 10:01 AM on February 21, 2010
I'm with Jessamyn on this. There is no relationship that is sustainable in the sight of identified lies. The best you can do for yourself is to find someone you can trust -- an equal -- and build on that sturdy foundation a relationship worth having. It is possible, and it is preferable.
posted by fake at 10:04 AM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by fake at 10:04 AM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
What's interesting about your question is that it assumes there is a boyfriend in your life and if you luck out, you get a good one, and if you don't, then you get someone who will cheat on you. I'm not sure how old you are, but I think the need for a boyfriend or male companion goes down as you get older. Additionally, are you afraid you're going to be humiliated by a husband who cheats on you and lies to you? It will not be your fault if that does happen, you know. No one will feel pity for you or think you're of substandard quality. They'll just think he's a jerk, which he will be. Then you get rid of him. You're not a bad person for trusting someone or loving and trusting them or even giving them a second chance.
The alternate is going with the fear. You could think of spending your life by yourself and if a good guy comes along, you'll know it. But if a bad guy comes along, you'll be okay ditching him when he lies.
posted by anniecat at 10:14 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
The alternate is going with the fear. You could think of spending your life by yourself and if a good guy comes along, you'll know it. But if a bad guy comes along, you'll be okay ditching him when he lies.
posted by anniecat at 10:14 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
Do you already have this "new" boyfriend lined up? I mean, if your boyfriend's a liar, unless you have another guy waiting in the wings (which could be a little disingenuous on your part, actually), then you aren't choosing between your lying boyfriend and a new, worse boyfriend. You're choosing between staying with your lying boyfriend and being single until you find a satisfactory, non-lying boyfriend.
I gather from the way your question is written that you are pretty young, so I would suggest seeing what the world has to offer before deciding your only choices are bad or bad.
posted by ishotjr at 10:14 AM on February 21, 2010
I gather from the way your question is written that you are pretty young, so I would suggest seeing what the world has to offer before deciding your only choices are bad or bad.
posted by ishotjr at 10:14 AM on February 21, 2010
So is it better to stay with the known quantity, or take a chance on an unknown quantity with the potential to be so much worse?
I'm sure there's more to you than just this post, but I have to agree that the way you're thinking about life and relationships (as conveyed here) is deeply troubling. For most folks, no trust means no relationship, unless you are perfectly happy "being with" someone who you know lies to you. You think you can tell when he's doing it, but you will never be able to do so all the time. Even if you do, it's just as disrespectful of you whether you catch the lie or not. If you can find happiness in such a scenario, best wishes, but most would say that this is not a good place to be and no kind of relationship at all.
Let me make an analogy, accepting that yes, it's not a perfect one: what if I said my husband beats me, sure, but it used to be pretty erratic and I couldn't see it coming. At least now I've figured it out and most of the time I can tell when he's about to fly off the handle, and I can brace myself. Also, he always feels regretful afterwords and gets me flowers or something. Should I stick with him, or risk finding a new boyfriend who's right hook might sting even harder.
These are dealbreakers for people. I suggest ditching this guy, and not finding a new boyfriend AT ALL for a while. You need some high-quality me time. I hate when people are always making the recommendation for therapy on AskMe, but in this case I suspect you'd have a lot to gain from it.
posted by drpynchon at 10:34 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
I'm sure there's more to you than just this post, but I have to agree that the way you're thinking about life and relationships (as conveyed here) is deeply troubling. For most folks, no trust means no relationship, unless you are perfectly happy "being with" someone who you know lies to you. You think you can tell when he's doing it, but you will never be able to do so all the time. Even if you do, it's just as disrespectful of you whether you catch the lie or not. If you can find happiness in such a scenario, best wishes, but most would say that this is not a good place to be and no kind of relationship at all.
Let me make an analogy, accepting that yes, it's not a perfect one: what if I said my husband beats me, sure, but it used to be pretty erratic and I couldn't see it coming. At least now I've figured it out and most of the time I can tell when he's about to fly off the handle, and I can brace myself. Also, he always feels regretful afterwords and gets me flowers or something. Should I stick with him, or risk finding a new boyfriend who's right hook might sting even harder.
These are dealbreakers for people. I suggest ditching this guy, and not finding a new boyfriend AT ALL for a while. You need some high-quality me time. I hate when people are always making the recommendation for therapy on AskMe, but in this case I suspect you'd have a lot to gain from it.
posted by drpynchon at 10:34 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
My first husband lied and cheated repeatedly. For a while I tried to make a go of it, having taking my marriage vows very seriously, a fact I came to understand that he was relying on.
I endured that relationship until I came to the realization that anchoring myself to someone I did not trust and who did not respect me would, over time, turn me into a bitter, unhappy person. I left that marriage and spent a while alone, examining my past choices so that I would be equipped to make better choices in the future. And now I am very happily married to a man who is kind and loyal and wonderful in too many ways to list here. Leaving that bad relationship was the best decision I had made in my life up to that point.
This is a boyfriend. It's not the same level of commitment as a marriage. In my view, dishonesty from a boyfriend/girlfriend is a deal-breaker, and the best thing you can do for both of you is end it sooner rather than later.
posted by ambrosia at 10:43 AM on February 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
I endured that relationship until I came to the realization that anchoring myself to someone I did not trust and who did not respect me would, over time, turn me into a bitter, unhappy person. I left that marriage and spent a while alone, examining my past choices so that I would be equipped to make better choices in the future. And now I am very happily married to a man who is kind and loyal and wonderful in too many ways to list here. Leaving that bad relationship was the best decision I had made in my life up to that point.
This is a boyfriend. It's not the same level of commitment as a marriage. In my view, dishonesty from a boyfriend/girlfriend is a deal-breaker, and the best thing you can do for both of you is end it sooner rather than later.
posted by ambrosia at 10:43 AM on February 21, 2010 [5 favorites]
From someone who has been in your situation, this man will not change. He might fool you into thinking he has/will, but he won't.
My biggest regret is not leaving the relationship when I had my first doubts, and wasting several years of my life. One of the things that made me stay with him was the fear of being alone. I shouldn't have worried, I'm much, much, happier now without the stress of that relationship.
You are so right in thinking that you'll be devastated if you spend many years with this man to find out afterwards that what you thought you had you never actually did.
You'll also regret not leaving years earlier, giving yourself the chance to find someone more worthy, someone who actually loves you and treats you with respect.
Good long term relationships don't have games like this happening in them, period. This relationship won't last, and it won't end well. It can either end on his terms, or on yours.
Get out now. You won't regret it.
posted by newpotato at 10:51 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
My biggest regret is not leaving the relationship when I had my first doubts, and wasting several years of my life. One of the things that made me stay with him was the fear of being alone. I shouldn't have worried, I'm much, much, happier now without the stress of that relationship.
You are so right in thinking that you'll be devastated if you spend many years with this man to find out afterwards that what you thought you had you never actually did.
You'll also regret not leaving years earlier, giving yourself the chance to find someone more worthy, someone who actually loves you and treats you with respect.
Good long term relationships don't have games like this happening in them, period. This relationship won't last, and it won't end well. It can either end on his terms, or on yours.
Get out now. You won't regret it.
posted by newpotato at 10:51 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
When a person repeatedly lies to you it shows there is not the right kind of connection. A true connection is based on truth. You watch what a person does, not what they say.
To clarify: the person may SAY I really want a committed relationship, but if they do not turn from all their other romantic relationships, or even if they do a little bit, they are willing to only give you so much of their heart and the whole thing is, in a way, a mockery of true love.
Have been down that road where you keep trying because YOU love THEM, and please believe me, the heartache is horrific. The sooner you cut the tie the less hurt you will be. The longer you keep trying the deeper the ensuing pain and you end up a fragment of who you were.
My advice, learned the hard way, get out NOW. Cut off all contact and determinedly move on.
posted by srbrunson at 10:57 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
To clarify: the person may SAY I really want a committed relationship, but if they do not turn from all their other romantic relationships, or even if they do a little bit, they are willing to only give you so much of their heart and the whole thing is, in a way, a mockery of true love.
Have been down that road where you keep trying because YOU love THEM, and please believe me, the heartache is horrific. The sooner you cut the tie the less hurt you will be. The longer you keep trying the deeper the ensuing pain and you end up a fragment of who you were.
My advice, learned the hard way, get out NOW. Cut off all contact and determinedly move on.
posted by srbrunson at 10:57 AM on February 21, 2010 [2 favorites]
You should be discussing this with him, not with metafilter -- it already sounds like your relationship is finished and this will surely kill it; who wants to be with someone who spies on them?
posted by 3mendo at 11:03 AM on February 21, 2010
posted by 3mendo at 11:03 AM on February 21, 2010
But if I had a sweet, loving, seemingly honest husband for 30 years, who just packed up and left me one day for his secretary or something? That would be an infinitely worse blow. It would be so much more of a trauma and a shock to my system.
Or: What if you went 30 years without ever being able to trust anyone? Is there anything worse than that?
I'm not you, but I would end the relationship you're in now not just because this guy is a liar, but because his lying might be having a very negative impact on how you think about yourself and other people. Not everyone is a liar, and no one should put up with this kind of behavior. Nthing the suggestion to get out before this guy hurts you even more.
posted by _cave at 11:11 AM on February 21, 2010
Or: What if you went 30 years without ever being able to trust anyone? Is there anything worse than that?
I'm not you, but I would end the relationship you're in now not just because this guy is a liar, but because his lying might be having a very negative impact on how you think about yourself and other people. Not everyone is a liar, and no one should put up with this kind of behavior. Nthing the suggestion to get out before this guy hurts you even more.
posted by _cave at 11:11 AM on February 21, 2010
Once you break up with him, spend time with friends that you love that do not lie to you! They will restore your faith in humanity.
posted by NoraReed at 11:19 AM on February 21, 2010
posted by NoraReed at 11:19 AM on February 21, 2010
"So is it better to stay with the known quantity, or take a chance on an unknown quantity with the potential to be so much worse?"
No, it is definitely not better to stay with the known quantity which is disrespectful to you as a person.
With regard to the unknown quantity, maybe being single and learning about yourself and what your expectations from a relationship are is a better idea than being with someone/anyone.
As a side-note, let me add here, being alone is not a bad thing regardless of your age.
As, If only I had a penguin... 's grandmother said, Better to be alone than in poor company.
Bottom-line, take a time out from the boyfriend business and work on learning more about yourself.
posted by VickyR at 11:26 AM on February 21, 2010
No, it is definitely not better to stay with the known quantity which is disrespectful to you as a person.
With regard to the unknown quantity, maybe being single and learning about yourself and what your expectations from a relationship are is a better idea than being with someone/anyone.
As a side-note, let me add here, being alone is not a bad thing regardless of your age.
As, If only I had a penguin... 's grandmother said, Better to be alone than in poor company.
Bottom-line, take a time out from the boyfriend business and work on learning more about yourself.
posted by VickyR at 11:26 AM on February 21, 2010
I think it's interesting that you didn't mention your feelings for him beyond the "fell hard" part at the beginning. It also might mean nothing -- maybe you assume that your love for each other is a given so you don't mention it.
But if the omission does mean something: In my mind, the breaking up question would be more along the lines of "is love enough?" As in, man do you love this guy, he loves you, you have a great time together, you're totally drawn to each other, but, oh crap, he's kind of a liar. In this case moving on would be tough to decide upon, and to do.
Aside from the lying, is the current guy merely ok? As in, when you envision breaking up and moving on, what is the origin of the "well, that sounds unpleasant" kinds of thoughts that you have? Are thoughts like "I love him so much, and don't want to be without him" in there anywhere? If the main unpleasant-sounding thoughts about breaking up have to do with the worry that the next guy might lie unexpectedly or have other bad qualities, then DTMFA. It won't even be that terrible since you won't have to go through the pain and anguish of breaking up with someone with whom you're madly in love, and since you really can meet someone else who's not a liar. The main bad part will be the (hopefully short) time before you transition to believing the truth: that you can find someone with whom you mesh, and who isn't a liar.
If I'm totally off about the notion that your feelings for him aren't that strong, then I'll just nth that there really are people out there with whom you'll mesh, and who aren't liars or jerks. If you begin to believe this, which you should, hopefully your decision about moving on will become easier.
posted by sentient at 11:30 AM on February 21, 2010
But if the omission does mean something: In my mind, the breaking up question would be more along the lines of "is love enough?" As in, man do you love this guy, he loves you, you have a great time together, you're totally drawn to each other, but, oh crap, he's kind of a liar. In this case moving on would be tough to decide upon, and to do.
Aside from the lying, is the current guy merely ok? As in, when you envision breaking up and moving on, what is the origin of the "well, that sounds unpleasant" kinds of thoughts that you have? Are thoughts like "I love him so much, and don't want to be without him" in there anywhere? If the main unpleasant-sounding thoughts about breaking up have to do with the worry that the next guy might lie unexpectedly or have other bad qualities, then DTMFA. It won't even be that terrible since you won't have to go through the pain and anguish of breaking up with someone with whom you're madly in love, and since you really can meet someone else who's not a liar. The main bad part will be the (hopefully short) time before you transition to believing the truth: that you can find someone with whom you mesh, and who isn't a liar.
If I'm totally off about the notion that your feelings for him aren't that strong, then I'll just nth that there really are people out there with whom you'll mesh, and who aren't liars or jerks. If you begin to believe this, which you should, hopefully your decision about moving on will become easier.
posted by sentient at 11:30 AM on February 21, 2010
Let's expand on this...
Is it better to keep a job you dislike, for low pay, because the next job might be worse?
Is it better to stay in a crappy apartment, because the next one might be cruddier?
Is it better to continue to eat at a bad restaurant, because the next one might be worse?
If you decide to stay with this boyfriend, because the next one might be worse, then you are guaranteeing that you will have a bad boyfriend.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:35 AM on February 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
Is it better to keep a job you dislike, for low pay, because the next job might be worse?
Is it better to stay in a crappy apartment, because the next one might be cruddier?
Is it better to continue to eat at a bad restaurant, because the next one might be worse?
If you decide to stay with this boyfriend, because the next one might be worse, then you are guaranteeing that you will have a bad boyfriend.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 11:35 AM on February 21, 2010 [3 favorites]
If your only two choices are your current bad boyfriend, or an imaginary future boyfriend you've invented to sound worse than your current boyfriend, then it's a foregone conclusion that it's better to stay with your current boyfriend. After all, you can always imagine someone worse than whoever your boyfriend is. But this is a quirk of your imagination, not reality. The reality is ... well, what everyone else said.
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:37 AM on February 21, 2010
posted by Jaltcoh at 11:37 AM on February 21, 2010
There are tons of great boyfriends out there, they are everywhere. Now you need to ask yourself what it is about you that makes you attracted to men who don't treat you well. When I hear people complain about never being able to find a decent partner, the problem isn't other people, the problem is them. Someone up thread suggested therapy which I think is a great idea. You need to find out why you don't respect yourself enough to be in a healthy relationship.
posted by MaryDellamorte at 11:42 AM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by MaryDellamorte at 11:42 AM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Not only is this guy a shady person and a compulsive liar, but he's turned you into a shady person and a liar also. Are you content to have to spy on your boyfriend because he lies to you all the time, and to have to choose whether or not you should inform him when you've caught him in a lie? It sure doesn't sound like it, and the fact is you'll never be able to trust him, and you know that. What's worse is, from what you say, it sounds like you'll never be able to truly trust any man, expecting him to run off with some imaginary secretary at any given moment.
Since you're not leaving yourself the option of having no boyfriend, instead only having a bad one or a worse one, it does sound like you need to be able to get comfortable with yourself before you'd be ready for another relationship. That might mean therapy, or it might just mean getting away from this guy, spending more time with friends and family that you trust, and spending some quality time with yourself.
posted by wondermouse at 11:52 AM on February 21, 2010
Since you're not leaving yourself the option of having no boyfriend, instead only having a bad one or a worse one, it does sound like you need to be able to get comfortable with yourself before you'd be ready for another relationship. That might mean therapy, or it might just mean getting away from this guy, spending more time with friends and family that you trust, and spending some quality time with yourself.
posted by wondermouse at 11:52 AM on February 21, 2010
For example, if I went through what John Edwards' wife went through -husband of 30 years has a love child with another woman while you are in treatment for terminal cancer- I don't think I'd be able to recover from that. And I don't think that kind of infidelity is that unlikely of a scenario.
I don't think you're setting up this scenario very realistically -- that a consistently honest, decent, loving man does what John Edwards did. I mean, read up a little more on that situation -- she was monitoring his calls, he was pocketing numbers from eager women on the campaign trail and taking 2 a.m. "jogs," all well before this particular affair came to light. So I don't think you need to use that example to convince yourself that after 30 years, a seemingly wonderful, devoted husband could just turn out to be a practiced liar who you find out has stashed his pregnant girlfriend with a well-paid underling for the last year or so.
I'm not going to guarantee that you can choose someone who "would never cheat" -- there's probably a scenario for almost everyone -- but I will say that the sustained, elaborate betrayal scenario you sketch out above is something that's indicative of, well, a snake. And you'd have known he was a snake before 30 years had passed.
So, instead of trying to find reasons why people are different from what they seem, listen to what people tell you about themselves.
posted by palliser at 12:17 PM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
I don't think you're setting up this scenario very realistically -- that a consistently honest, decent, loving man does what John Edwards did. I mean, read up a little more on that situation -- she was monitoring his calls, he was pocketing numbers from eager women on the campaign trail and taking 2 a.m. "jogs," all well before this particular affair came to light. So I don't think you need to use that example to convince yourself that after 30 years, a seemingly wonderful, devoted husband could just turn out to be a practiced liar who you find out has stashed his pregnant girlfriend with a well-paid underling for the last year or so.
I'm not going to guarantee that you can choose someone who "would never cheat" -- there's probably a scenario for almost everyone -- but I will say that the sustained, elaborate betrayal scenario you sketch out above is something that's indicative of, well, a snake. And you'd have known he was a snake before 30 years had passed.
So, instead of trying to find reasons why people are different from what they seem, listen to what people tell you about themselves.
posted by palliser at 12:17 PM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
If you want to avoid a John Edwards scenario, don't marry a politician/powermonger/rock star/person with a lot of power and money and access to hot chicks whenever he wants. Most of the time this scenario doesn't happen to normal, ordinary guys without access to power, money, and hot chicks whenever he wants. Your odds of a massive relationship screwing are actually pretty low with most people.
However, they are amazingly high with this guy that given the compulsive lying, he'll screw you in some way, and hell, he probably has already cheated on you tons of times by now. (Sorry, but that generally seems to be the #1 reason why creeps lie to their girlfriends.) This guy is guaranteed to do awful things to you even if you can tell when he's lying. Shooting this low is just awful. Hell, I'd rather be single than wonder what STD's I'm going to catch from this guy and how likely the STD's are to be permanent. It may be harder to do worse than this guy. Wife beater would be worse, I guess, but this guy has far more potential for badness than most of them.
DTMFA.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:44 PM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
However, they are amazingly high with this guy that given the compulsive lying, he'll screw you in some way, and hell, he probably has already cheated on you tons of times by now. (Sorry, but that generally seems to be the #1 reason why creeps lie to their girlfriends.) This guy is guaranteed to do awful things to you even if you can tell when he's lying. Shooting this low is just awful. Hell, I'd rather be single than wonder what STD's I'm going to catch from this guy and how likely the STD's are to be permanent. It may be harder to do worse than this guy. Wife beater would be worse, I guess, but this guy has far more potential for badness than most of them.
DTMFA.
posted by jenfullmoon at 12:44 PM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
I understand that you're afraid of being hurt. We all are. But you're already being hurt in this relationship! You say when my boyfriend lies, it's expected and familiar, and I know how to deal with it. This is the saddest thing I've heard all year.
Another wise old saying that fits here would be "It takes a mighty good man to be better than none."
posted by shiny blue object at 1:16 PM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
Another wise old saying that fits here would be "It takes a mighty good man to be better than none."
posted by shiny blue object at 1:16 PM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
I agree with LobsterGarden. You have more than two choices. Not all men are liars, cheaters and thieves. It's a bit distressing that you're investing so much in someone who has demonstrated to you he's a routine liar because that's so bottom of the bargain basement and there are so many quality options out there.
Take stock. You have now developed a skill at knowing if someone is lying. Those tells aren't entirely unique to your boyfriend and you may want to expand that skill be reading up on nonverbal communication and kinesics. This way you can use it as a filter: if you catch guys in lies early, it's easier to toss them and focus on ones who don't lie.
posted by medea42 at 1:25 PM on February 21, 2010
Take stock. You have now developed a skill at knowing if someone is lying. Those tells aren't entirely unique to your boyfriend and you may want to expand that skill be reading up on nonverbal communication and kinesics. This way you can use it as a filter: if you catch guys in lies early, it's easier to toss them and focus on ones who don't lie.
posted by medea42 at 1:25 PM on February 21, 2010
It sounds like the John Edwards story shook you up quite a bit. I’d like to see you build up confidence where you are capable of having healthy relationships with open communication. That if problems come up, you work it out. That if either one of you is thinking about cheating, you let each other know, and you be honest with each other about what you’re feeling, try to support each other, and try to meet each others’ needs. And that you also have support from friends, family, etc.
The problem with your current relationship isn’t that your bf is lying (which is a problem, of course). The problem is your HUGE fear that there is a big, bad, world out there and that only bad things will happen to you. At least in this relationship, you KNOW and so therefore, you are safe. But you aren’t safe. You're lying to yourself. You’re in a bad relationship, and you’ve developed coping skills that are eroding your soul, spirit, etc. This is why I like ambrosia’s comment – because she realized the impact this was having on her emotional health, and the consequences if she stayed with her first husband (i.e. becoming bitter and unhappy).
Also, people who lie have problems with intimacy. I suspect something similar is going on with you – a fear of intimacy. So, to echo everyone – break it off with him, spend some time on yourself, get some therapy and start learning to love yourself.
posted by foxjacket at 2:44 PM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
The problem with your current relationship isn’t that your bf is lying (which is a problem, of course). The problem is your HUGE fear that there is a big, bad, world out there and that only bad things will happen to you. At least in this relationship, you KNOW and so therefore, you are safe. But you aren’t safe. You're lying to yourself. You’re in a bad relationship, and you’ve developed coping skills that are eroding your soul, spirit, etc. This is why I like ambrosia’s comment – because she realized the impact this was having on her emotional health, and the consequences if she stayed with her first husband (i.e. becoming bitter and unhappy).
Also, people who lie have problems with intimacy. I suspect something similar is going on with you – a fear of intimacy. So, to echo everyone – break it off with him, spend some time on yourself, get some therapy and start learning to love yourself.
posted by foxjacket at 2:44 PM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
I have frequently advised that people treat their partners as trustworthy (avoid spying, do your best to put a charitable explanation on circumstances that might seem sketchy, and so forth) because allowing suspicion and/or jealousy to poison an otherwise perfectly sound relationship is such a tragic error. But the flip side of that is that staying in a relationship with somebody who is demonstrably untrustworthy is a complete waste of time.
I recommend doing the brave thing: dump this loser, go and find somebody who you think is probably worthy of your trust, and then trust them so you get to spend the rest of your life not worrying about what your partner is up to when you can't see them.
In my opinion, chronic disrespect will do you more emotional harm than acute betrayal. That's why it's worth risking acute betrayal. In fact more people are trustworthy than not, because most people are smart enough to figure out that what goes around comes around.
Even leaving aside all the emotional considerations: choosing to stay in a sexual relationship with a demonstrably untrustworthy partner is choosing to live with a known-to-be-high risk of contracting nasty diseases. This is not a choice I would make.
posted by flabdablet at 3:24 PM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
I recommend doing the brave thing: dump this loser, go and find somebody who you think is probably worthy of your trust, and then trust them so you get to spend the rest of your life not worrying about what your partner is up to when you can't see them.
In my opinion, chronic disrespect will do you more emotional harm than acute betrayal. That's why it's worth risking acute betrayal. In fact more people are trustworthy than not, because most people are smart enough to figure out that what goes around comes around.
Even leaving aside all the emotional considerations: choosing to stay in a sexual relationship with a demonstrably untrustworthy partner is choosing to live with a known-to-be-high risk of contracting nasty diseases. This is not a choice I would make.
posted by flabdablet at 3:24 PM on February 21, 2010 [1 favorite]
You opened the door and found a goat.
If there's some rule that you must have a boyfriend, even if there are only three men on earth and two of them are liars, math tells us you would have better odds if you start again with someone else.
Ms. T. Light Fantastic said it -- the chances of you having a bad boyfriend are 100% right now.
posted by Sallyfur at 5:26 AM on February 22, 2010
If there's some rule that you must have a boyfriend, even if there are only three men on earth and two of them are liars, math tells us you would have better odds if you start again with someone else.
Ms. T. Light Fantastic said it -- the chances of you having a bad boyfriend are 100% right now.
posted by Sallyfur at 5:26 AM on February 22, 2010
"Never quite technically cheated...." does that mean making out but no penetrative sex? Still cheating in my book.
I was involved with someone (in my case physically attracted to but emotionally considered a "friend") who wound up stealing my wallet when I found out my grandfather was dying. The only thing he told me about himself which I know to be the truth is a parent's nationality.
DTMFA
posted by brujita at 12:24 AM on February 23, 2010
I was involved with someone (in my case physically attracted to but emotionally considered a "friend") who wound up stealing my wallet when I found out my grandfather was dying. The only thing he told me about himself which I know to be the truth is a parent's nationality.
DTMFA
posted by brujita at 12:24 AM on February 23, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
Fear of the alternative is not a good reason to stay in a relationship you're not happy with.
posted by Lobster Garden at 9:30 AM on February 21, 2010 [35 favorites]