Work sucks.
January 7, 2010 8:15 PM Subscribe
My coworkers and I are all being paid differently despite the fact that we all have the same job and are at the same education and experience level in our line of work. We'd like to confront our boss about this but we want to be cautious with our words and be armed with California labor law to back us up, and I need help.
We (six women in their early 20s in the San Francisco Bay Area) work at a daycare. We all started in late August, all with a lot of similar childcare work experience. It's a 35 hour/week job with no benefits and no paid holidays or sick leave. Not great, but we're all just happy to be working. That was until recently, when we found out that two of us are making $18/hour, two are making $17/hour, I make $16/hour and one makes $14/hour.
When I first found this out two months ago I reasoned that the difference in pay was due to education. We all have bachelor's degrees, but I don't have any of the early childhood education units or developmental psych classes that my coworkers do have under their respective belts. Today I realized that my boss has never seen my college transcripts, so to my knowledge there is no basis for the difference in pay. Two coworkers even told me that during their job interviews our boss said that employees start at $17 an hour, but during my interview she asked me to request a salary rate (I said $12 an hour) and when she called to offer me the job she said she could pay me $16 an hour. To my understanding, this is discrimination.
One coworker (who is making $17/hour) and I are planning on confronting my boss either tomorrow or next week, depending on when she comes in, and asking why we're getting paid less than the rest of our coworkers. I've never done anything like this before, and I'm really nervous. A girl got fired early on in the school year and our boss's explanation was that "she complained too much." Our boss is extremely moody, and if you catch her at the wrong moment she can fly off the handle. I don't want to lose my job, but I can't help but feel that what they're doing is illegal.
One of my coworkers said that it's pretty standard to have a 90-day performance review in which the employee can as for a raise. I've been searching the California labor laws and codes but I can't find anything about performance reviews or any other information can help me. So, to those of you who know the working world and labor laws better than I, please, please help me navigate this situation so that I get paid equally and don't get fired.
We (six women in their early 20s in the San Francisco Bay Area) work at a daycare. We all started in late August, all with a lot of similar childcare work experience. It's a 35 hour/week job with no benefits and no paid holidays or sick leave. Not great, but we're all just happy to be working. That was until recently, when we found out that two of us are making $18/hour, two are making $17/hour, I make $16/hour and one makes $14/hour.
When I first found this out two months ago I reasoned that the difference in pay was due to education. We all have bachelor's degrees, but I don't have any of the early childhood education units or developmental psych classes that my coworkers do have under their respective belts. Today I realized that my boss has never seen my college transcripts, so to my knowledge there is no basis for the difference in pay. Two coworkers even told me that during their job interviews our boss said that employees start at $17 an hour, but during my interview she asked me to request a salary rate (I said $12 an hour) and when she called to offer me the job she said she could pay me $16 an hour. To my understanding, this is discrimination.
One coworker (who is making $17/hour) and I are planning on confronting my boss either tomorrow or next week, depending on when she comes in, and asking why we're getting paid less than the rest of our coworkers. I've never done anything like this before, and I'm really nervous. A girl got fired early on in the school year and our boss's explanation was that "she complained too much." Our boss is extremely moody, and if you catch her at the wrong moment she can fly off the handle. I don't want to lose my job, but I can't help but feel that what they're doing is illegal.
One of my coworkers said that it's pretty standard to have a 90-day performance review in which the employee can as for a raise. I've been searching the California labor laws and codes but I can't find anything about performance reviews or any other information can help me. So, to those of you who know the working world and labor laws better than I, please, please help me navigate this situation so that I get paid equally and don't get fired.
i was coming in here to say that ^
posted by radiosilents at 8:25 PM on January 7, 2010
posted by radiosilents at 8:25 PM on January 7, 2010
This is not legal advice blah blah blah but it sounds to me like they just negotiated better than you.
posted by amro at 8:25 PM on January 7, 2010 [7 favorites]
posted by amro at 8:25 PM on January 7, 2010 [7 favorites]
salary is not a meritocratic system, basically.
posted by radiosilents at 8:25 PM on January 7, 2010
posted by radiosilents at 8:25 PM on January 7, 2010
oh, and at one company i worked at it was explicitly stated that sharing salary information was a write up offense, which could mean a fire-able offense if you were already written up for something like insubordination.
posted by nadawi at 8:26 PM on January 7, 2010
posted by nadawi at 8:26 PM on January 7, 2010
You've used the word "confront" a couple of times in your question. This is not a good negotiation tactic.
posted by KokuRyu at 8:28 PM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
posted by KokuRyu at 8:28 PM on January 7, 2010 [2 favorites]
I suspect that your employer has the right to determine salary amounts...
posted by HuronBob at 8:29 PM on January 7, 2010
posted by HuronBob at 8:29 PM on January 7, 2010
Best answer: "but during my interview she asked me to request a salary rate (I said $12 an hour) and when she called to offer me the job she said she could pay me $16 an hour. To my understanding, this is discrimination."
That's not discrimination, that's just your own failure to research market salaries and bad negotiation.
Don't make this mistake again. The book Negotiating Your Salary: How to Make $1000 a Minute might help you, although it's aimed more at executives and professionals.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:32 PM on January 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
That's not discrimination, that's just your own failure to research market salaries and bad negotiation.
Don't make this mistake again. The book Negotiating Your Salary: How to Make $1000 a Minute might help you, although it's aimed more at executives and professionals.
posted by Jacqueline at 8:32 PM on January 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
There's nothing in your story that's discriminatory here unless the differences in salary broke down by some protected class (race, gender etc)
This practice is common across all jobs. You made the mistake of lowballing your demands and they pretty graciously gave you 25% more then you're asking.
You're about to open a shit can that should have stayed closed.
posted by bitdamaged at 8:36 PM on January 7, 2010 [8 favorites]
This practice is common across all jobs. You made the mistake of lowballing your demands and they pretty graciously gave you 25% more then you're asking.
You're about to open a shit can that should have stayed closed.
posted by bitdamaged at 8:36 PM on January 7, 2010 [8 favorites]
Best answer: I would talk with my boss and tell him that you very much appreciate that he gave you more than you asked for when you negotiated a starting salary, but you have been working hard, have proven yourself to be a reliable, trusted, efficient, friendly worker and would like a raise that would put you on par with your co-workers. IF he says he cannot do it, chalk it up to poor initial negotiation and either live with it or find another job. If he says ok, smile and then thank him profusely and walk out before he changes his mind.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:38 PM on January 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
posted by JohnnyGunn at 8:38 PM on January 7, 2010 [3 favorites]
It might be discrimination if men were being paid substantially more than women, or if white people were being paid substantially more than non-whites, but this just sounds like you accidentally low-balled your salary request when you interviewed (and maybe others did too).
Maybe try just asking for a raise? I wouldn't necessarily frame it as "discrimination" or any other wrongdoing by your boss unless there's a lot more to the story than you've conveyed here.
posted by amtho at 8:38 PM on January 7, 2010
Maybe try just asking for a raise? I wouldn't necessarily frame it as "discrimination" or any other wrongdoing by your boss unless there's a lot more to the story than you've conveyed here.
posted by amtho at 8:38 PM on January 7, 2010
Best answer: BTW if I was your boss I'd say "you're right I'll pay you all 16.65 an hour - can you call everyone in while I explain it to them?"
posted by bitdamaged at 8:40 PM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
posted by bitdamaged at 8:40 PM on January 7, 2010 [1 favorite]
Absent collective bargaining (a union), your pay rate is basically a private negotiation between you and your employer. You want to get the most you can. Your employer wants to pay you the least you will accept. There is no legal obligation for an employer to pay two people the same amount even if they have equivalent amounts of experience, skill, education, etc. and are doing exactly the same job.
Sharing your pay rate with co-workers is basically a recipe for resentment. You shouldn't have done it. Would you do your job for $16 an hour? Obviously you would, because you're doing it. Actually, you admit that you would do it for $12 an hour! You're getting a third more than you'd accept, yet somehow you're unhappy about it!
(Would the person who's making $18 an hour would be willing to take a pay cut to $16 an hour so that your co-worker who makes $14 an hour can be bumped to $16? Somehow I don't think so. The potential for disharmony should be obvious.)
posted by kindall at 8:45 PM on January 7, 2010
Sharing your pay rate with co-workers is basically a recipe for resentment. You shouldn't have done it. Would you do your job for $16 an hour? Obviously you would, because you're doing it. Actually, you admit that you would do it for $12 an hour! You're getting a third more than you'd accept, yet somehow you're unhappy about it!
(Would the person who's making $18 an hour would be willing to take a pay cut to $16 an hour so that your co-worker who makes $14 an hour can be bumped to $16? Somehow I don't think so. The potential for disharmony should be obvious.)
posted by kindall at 8:45 PM on January 7, 2010
California law prohibits employers from banning discussion of salaries. Of course, California is also an at-will state, which means your employer can fire you for no reason at all.
posted by infinitewindow at 8:59 PM on January 7, 2010
posted by infinitewindow at 8:59 PM on January 7, 2010
To my understanding, this is discrimination.
I'm no lawyer, but I can't think of any reason to believe this. I make more money than a coworker of mine who does pretty much the same job, and I make more than he does because I asked for it when I was hired. I make less than another coworker who does the same work as both of us but who had another job offer on the table when we wanted to hire him, and we had to match the other job's salary offer in order to get him.
There's nothing wrong with employers paying people different amounts for the same work, as long as they're not systematically paying less to people in certain protected classes than they are to others who are not in one of those classes.
If you want to make more money, I'd negotiate for more in the manner that JohnnyGunn suggests. If that doesn't work, you can look for a new job and negotiate a new salary there based on your newfound knowledge of the salary market. Good luck!
posted by decathecting at 9:03 PM on January 7, 2010
I'm no lawyer, but I can't think of any reason to believe this. I make more money than a coworker of mine who does pretty much the same job, and I make more than he does because I asked for it when I was hired. I make less than another coworker who does the same work as both of us but who had another job offer on the table when we wanted to hire him, and we had to match the other job's salary offer in order to get him.
There's nothing wrong with employers paying people different amounts for the same work, as long as they're not systematically paying less to people in certain protected classes than they are to others who are not in one of those classes.
If you want to make more money, I'd negotiate for more in the manner that JohnnyGunn suggests. If that doesn't work, you can look for a new job and negotiate a new salary there based on your newfound knowledge of the salary market. Good luck!
posted by decathecting at 9:03 PM on January 7, 2010
Listen to JohnnyGunn. You're not negotiating from a position of strength here.
If you lived in Australia, where there are award wages for just about every occupation, and you were being paid less than the award, you'd have a basis for complaint. But you're in the land of the free and the home of the brave, which means that as long as they're paying you more than some derisory minimum wage, you're supposed to shut up and act grateful for your job and not rock the boat.
To my understanding, this is discrimination.
Discrimination in the sense I think you're thinking of is where what has happened to you has happened on the basis of race, gender or disability. Unless you can make a reasonable argument that one of these factors is involved in your case, I can't see you getting anywhere good with this.
posted by flabdablet at 9:06 PM on January 7, 2010
If you lived in Australia, where there are award wages for just about every occupation, and you were being paid less than the award, you'd have a basis for complaint. But you're in the land of the free and the home of the brave, which means that as long as they're paying you more than some derisory minimum wage, you're supposed to shut up and act grateful for your job and not rock the boat.
To my understanding, this is discrimination.
Discrimination in the sense I think you're thinking of is where what has happened to you has happened on the basis of race, gender or disability. Unless you can make a reasonable argument that one of these factors is involved in your case, I can't see you getting anywhere good with this.
posted by flabdablet at 9:06 PM on January 7, 2010
California is also an at-will state, which means your employer can fire you for no reason at all.
At-will means an employer can fire you for any LEGAL reason. Assuming there are anti-retaliation provisions built into CA labor laws, because it's illegal for an employer to prohibit discussions of salary in the workplace, it would also be illegal for an employer to fire an employee for discussion salary in the workplace.
posted by jennyb at 9:21 PM on January 7, 2010
At-will means an employer can fire you for any LEGAL reason. Assuming there are anti-retaliation provisions built into CA labor laws, because it's illegal for an employer to prohibit discussions of salary in the workplace, it would also be illegal for an employer to fire an employee for discussion salary in the workplace.
posted by jennyb at 9:21 PM on January 7, 2010
I can't believe you said you would work for $12/hour, you got offered $16/hour, and you're complaining. Are you crazy?? Any sane employer would have paid you exactly what you said you would take...or less.
Feel free to ask for a raise, but I see no grounds to claim this is discrimination. I think it would be a really big mistake for you to state that it was to your boss. Talk to a lawyer if there's something going on that you haven't detailed here.
posted by crinklebat at 9:21 PM on January 7, 2010
Feel free to ask for a raise, but I see no grounds to claim this is discrimination. I think it would be a really big mistake for you to state that it was to your boss. Talk to a lawyer if there's something going on that you haven't detailed here.
posted by crinklebat at 9:21 PM on January 7, 2010
Response by poster: I know I low-balled during my interview. I was really desperate for the job and did that so that I would be sure to get it, and I'm totally regretting it now. Thanks for the book suggestion, Jacqueline. Lesson learned.
I hadn't realized that discrimination was based on protective classes, and after doing some more reading (from ropeladder's site, thank you) there is no discrimination going on here. Many thanks for pointing that one out, bitdamaged and amtho.
So obviously what my boss is doing is not illegal, just kind of shitty. Duly noted. With this new knowledge, instead of confronting (thanks KokuRyu) I would still like to see if I can get a raise somehow. Is a 90-day period for an evaluation pretty standard in jobs like these? If I get an evaluation with my boss, do I ask for a raise gently or directly?
posted by easy_being_green at 9:31 PM on January 7, 2010
I hadn't realized that discrimination was based on protective classes, and after doing some more reading (from ropeladder's site, thank you) there is no discrimination going on here. Many thanks for pointing that one out, bitdamaged and amtho.
So obviously what my boss is doing is not illegal, just kind of shitty. Duly noted. With this new knowledge, instead of confronting (thanks KokuRyu) I would still like to see if I can get a raise somehow. Is a 90-day period for an evaluation pretty standard in jobs like these? If I get an evaluation with my boss, do I ask for a raise gently or directly?
posted by easy_being_green at 9:31 PM on January 7, 2010
Chiming in to say that you are about to do this all wrong. Like massively, 180-degrees wrong.
You asked for $12, you got offered $16, you took the offer. Someone else might have asked for $20, gotten $18, and taken it. From the employer's perspective, you ought to be a lot happier than them — you're getting 1/3rd more than you asked for, and they're not even getting what they requested.
There's no reason why everyone working the same job, absent a union, necessarily ought to earn the same amount. In fact I'd say it would generally be an odd coincidence if four people doing the same job, each on their own independently-negotiated contract, ended up with the same salary. (Unless the employer has "pay bands" or some other similar scheme, but even those are generally bands with some wiggle room, not just flat levels — otherwise it would be very difficult to retain talented people.)
Salary is a negotiation. So what you're about to do is attempt to renegotiate your salary, whether you realize it or not. Except that you're going into it all wrong — what if the boss offers to bring some people's salaries down to compensate for the inequity that seems to be bothering you all so much? That would solve the problem, wouldn't it? Not really anywhere you can go at that point.
If I were you (or any of the other people making less than the best rate), I'd take a deep breath and then wait for a good opportunity to ask for a raise. Now, maybe as part of this discussion you can mention that you're aware that some other people are getting paid more than you for the same work — I'm not sure I would do this, because frankly it's kinda tacky, but if you have a good relationship with your boss it might not hurt.
But I'd check the whole injustice attitude at the door. The fact that you revealed your salaries to each other nonwithstanding, each of you is basically on your own when it comes to negotiating pay. If you want to help yourself and your coworkers who are making even less, maybe talk to the people who are getting paid more, see what they did in their negotiations that worked well; that not only might come in handy when you're negotiating for a raise, but it'll be a good skill for future jobs as well.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:44 PM on January 7, 2010
You asked for $12, you got offered $16, you took the offer. Someone else might have asked for $20, gotten $18, and taken it. From the employer's perspective, you ought to be a lot happier than them — you're getting 1/3rd more than you asked for, and they're not even getting what they requested.
There's no reason why everyone working the same job, absent a union, necessarily ought to earn the same amount. In fact I'd say it would generally be an odd coincidence if four people doing the same job, each on their own independently-negotiated contract, ended up with the same salary. (Unless the employer has "pay bands" or some other similar scheme, but even those are generally bands with some wiggle room, not just flat levels — otherwise it would be very difficult to retain talented people.)
Salary is a negotiation. So what you're about to do is attempt to renegotiate your salary, whether you realize it or not. Except that you're going into it all wrong — what if the boss offers to bring some people's salaries down to compensate for the inequity that seems to be bothering you all so much? That would solve the problem, wouldn't it? Not really anywhere you can go at that point.
If I were you (or any of the other people making less than the best rate), I'd take a deep breath and then wait for a good opportunity to ask for a raise. Now, maybe as part of this discussion you can mention that you're aware that some other people are getting paid more than you for the same work — I'm not sure I would do this, because frankly it's kinda tacky, but if you have a good relationship with your boss it might not hurt.
But I'd check the whole injustice attitude at the door. The fact that you revealed your salaries to each other nonwithstanding, each of you is basically on your own when it comes to negotiating pay. If you want to help yourself and your coworkers who are making even less, maybe talk to the people who are getting paid more, see what they did in their negotiations that worked well; that not only might come in handy when you're negotiating for a raise, but it'll be a good skill for future jobs as well.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:44 PM on January 7, 2010
Best answer: Oops, didn't see your followup. Most jobs have a 90-day "trial period" of some sort, during which it's easier to let someone go (although this doesn't really matter in at-will states, as far as I can tell). Sometimes there's an evaluation at the end of that, but it really depends on the employer.
Ninety days strikes me as a bit soon to be asking for a raise, although there aren't any hard and fast rules about it. I guess you could try if you have a good relationship with your boss and the opportunity presents itself.
If there's any way you can take on some additional responsibilities, so that during that conversation you'll have something to point to, basically something to justify your raise with, that would probably be good. It's hard to justify a raise on the basis of just doing the job you were hired to do for 90 days.
Most places I've worked do annual performance/salary reviews, although if your is a position where staff turnover is relatively high (say where the average person is there for less than 2-3 years at minimum), maybe they happen more frequently. If there's no set schedule, then I think you should feel completely free to ask, and potentially use that as the opener to a discussion.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:53 PM on January 7, 2010
Ninety days strikes me as a bit soon to be asking for a raise, although there aren't any hard and fast rules about it. I guess you could try if you have a good relationship with your boss and the opportunity presents itself.
If there's any way you can take on some additional responsibilities, so that during that conversation you'll have something to point to, basically something to justify your raise with, that would probably be good. It's hard to justify a raise on the basis of just doing the job you were hired to do for 90 days.
Most places I've worked do annual performance/salary reviews, although if your is a position where staff turnover is relatively high (say where the average person is there for less than 2-3 years at minimum), maybe they happen more frequently. If there's no set schedule, then I think you should feel completely free to ask, and potentially use that as the opener to a discussion.
posted by Kadin2048 at 9:53 PM on January 7, 2010
So obviously what my boss is doing is not illegal, just kind of shitty. Duly noted.
This just isn't true. What your boss is doing is the way it works. It may seem shitty to you now, but someday when you're the one tasked with raising profits and hiring new people at the same time, you may decide that actually, paying employees what you can get them for is not an act of pure evil.
posted by bingo at 10:00 PM on January 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
This just isn't true. What your boss is doing is the way it works. It may seem shitty to you now, but someday when you're the one tasked with raising profits and hiring new people at the same time, you may decide that actually, paying employees what you can get them for is not an act of pure evil.
posted by bingo at 10:00 PM on January 7, 2010 [5 favorites]
Nthing the often unspoken workplace ban on discussing salaries. I've never worked somewhere where it's been an official rule, but it's good policy in general. Comparing salaries will only end in tears of resentment.
posted by bardic at 11:15 PM on January 7, 2010
posted by bardic at 11:15 PM on January 7, 2010
Seconding bingo. What your boss is doing isn't even remotely shitty in any way, shape, or form. If there were actual discrimination going on, with a disparity in pay based on race, ethnicity, sex, etc. that would be one thing. Failing that, it is not an employer's job to pay everyone "fairly". Unless you are working in a union job with collective bargaining, in a capitalist society you are worth exactly what you negotiate for. There is nothing wrong or immoral about that.
You lowballed your salary requirements because apparently it was more important to you to get a job than it was to get a higher salary. There is nothing wrong with that, either. There are plenty of people out there desperate for jobs, and you are not currently among them so bravo to you. Unfortunately, the only realistic way for you to significantly increase your salary level at this point is to change jobs (or threaten to change jobs, and see if your current boss will match a salary offer to keep you).
It is not your boss' job to look out for your best interests. Your boss' job (or one of her jobs) is to effectively manage payroll so that the business turns a profit.
posted by Lokheed at 12:30 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
You lowballed your salary requirements because apparently it was more important to you to get a job than it was to get a higher salary. There is nothing wrong with that, either. There are plenty of people out there desperate for jobs, and you are not currently among them so bravo to you. Unfortunately, the only realistic way for you to significantly increase your salary level at this point is to change jobs (or threaten to change jobs, and see if your current boss will match a salary offer to keep you).
It is not your boss' job to look out for your best interests. Your boss' job (or one of her jobs) is to effectively manage payroll so that the business turns a profit.
posted by Lokheed at 12:30 AM on January 8, 2010 [2 favorites]
Bosses will try to keep salaries low. The less they pay the less overhead there is to pay.
Bosses also pay people what they think they're worth. If employee X makes more than Y, it could be because boss thinks X is making more of a contribution that Y.
You as an individual could say, 'X makes more than me, OK please quantify then what X is doing that I'm not, so I can then do it and earn a higher salary'. I did that once, and I got a raise out of it.
But I approached it in 'show me what I need to do, to get paid more', not 'why aren't you paying me more?' (or 'why aren't you paying these other people more?') And I did that as an individual not as part of a group.
Again, deal with your own salary. Be concerned about what *you* make or don't make, not what the other guy makes.
If the boss sees you as some kind of instigator of the staff, to organize them to demand more pay, and getting labor laws involved etc. then you better quickly go the whole nine yards and actually form a union because your days as an employee will be numbered.
posted by thermonuclear.jive.turkey at 12:32 AM on January 8, 2010
Bosses also pay people what they think they're worth. If employee X makes more than Y, it could be because boss thinks X is making more of a contribution that Y.
You as an individual could say, 'X makes more than me, OK please quantify then what X is doing that I'm not, so I can then do it and earn a higher salary'. I did that once, and I got a raise out of it.
But I approached it in 'show me what I need to do, to get paid more', not 'why aren't you paying me more?' (or 'why aren't you paying these other people more?') And I did that as an individual not as part of a group.
Again, deal with your own salary. Be concerned about what *you* make or don't make, not what the other guy makes.
If the boss sees you as some kind of instigator of the staff, to organize them to demand more pay, and getting labor laws involved etc. then you better quickly go the whole nine yards and actually form a union because your days as an employee will be numbered.
posted by thermonuclear.jive.turkey at 12:32 AM on January 8, 2010
I once discovered I was being paid less than a coworker with really comparable experience and education who had simply done a better job of mentioning her best credentials and negotiating her salary on the way in.
When I found out about the pay disparity, I went to my boss and politely but firmly asked why the disparity existed. Boss looked nervous and said, "well she has X certification," to which I said, "Did you know that I have X certification as well, plus a summer of experience doing Y?" This continued for a couple more qualifications- in all cases, my credentials matched or exceeded those of my higher-paid colleague. The outcome was that the boss raised my salary to match hers (although I didn't think to ask for retroactive compensation, which, in retrospect, I'd probably have gotten, too).
Your mileage may vary, since you did explicitly ask for less money on the way in (I had asked for more and was told there was a non-negotiable starting salary; my coworker had simply managed to out-negotiate it before accepting the job).
posted by pseudostrabismus at 12:54 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
When I found out about the pay disparity, I went to my boss and politely but firmly asked why the disparity existed. Boss looked nervous and said, "well she has X certification," to which I said, "Did you know that I have X certification as well, plus a summer of experience doing Y?" This continued for a couple more qualifications- in all cases, my credentials matched or exceeded those of my higher-paid colleague. The outcome was that the boss raised my salary to match hers (although I didn't think to ask for retroactive compensation, which, in retrospect, I'd probably have gotten, too).
Your mileage may vary, since you did explicitly ask for less money on the way in (I had asked for more and was told there was a non-negotiable starting salary; my coworker had simply managed to out-negotiate it before accepting the job).
posted by pseudostrabismus at 12:54 AM on January 8, 2010 [1 favorite]
i have 10 years of experience working for a mall portrait studio. i started at 15 years old working part time and eventually made my way to manager and traveling manager/trainer. it's an industry that has an extremely high turnover rate (2/3 of the employees work 4 months out of the year and only about 1/4 of those come back season to season). we did performance evaluations and raises after a year. to get anything at all higher than the standard 5% or so, it took some real negotiating. as it was my job to negotiate for my staff's raises, there was only one singular time the "hey! we're not making the same amount of money!" ever worked and that was because of a fuck up from the district manager (he hired 5 new people while i was on vacation and gave them all 50 cents more an hour than the people who had been on staff for 6 months or so). i demanded he raise the entire staff since his idiocy had cost me morale. he finally relented. other than that the only successful bargaining tool my staff or i ever used was arguing a raised based on our own merits. even then, those raises only came during promotions or scheduled evaluations.
and, as a little by the way - you're making what a lot of the managers with 5+ years experience made (i made more, but i negotiated hard because i didn't want the promotion they were offering).
so yeah - a moody manager who fires people for complaining too much? if you're going to negotiate for a pay raise, be ready to walk. otherwise, you're bluffing and if she senses that you'll be worse off than before.
posted by nadawi at 2:05 AM on January 8, 2010
and, as a little by the way - you're making what a lot of the managers with 5+ years experience made (i made more, but i negotiated hard because i didn't want the promotion they were offering).
so yeah - a moody manager who fires people for complaining too much? if you're going to negotiate for a pay raise, be ready to walk. otherwise, you're bluffing and if she senses that you'll be worse off than before.
posted by nadawi at 2:05 AM on January 8, 2010
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by nadawi at 8:24 PM on January 7, 2010 [4 favorites]