Is my wall too short?
January 2, 2010 9:03 PM Subscribe
I am framing some non-load bearing walls in my basement. Due to a stupid mistake, I just completed an 8' section that is 1/4" to 1/2" too short.
I'm building the segments on the floor, raising them and attaching the top plate to a second 2x4 already attached perpendicular to the joists. Can I just shim this gap? Or is this too much of a gap to meet code?
I'm building the segments on the floor, raising them and attaching the top plate to a second 2x4 already attached perpendicular to the joists. Can I just shim this gap? Or is this too much of a gap to meet code?
Not being a pro builder, and not knowing what your local building code is, but for a non-load bearing wall furring the top plate would have no structural effect. Is the gap even? Or can it be made even?
If it was my wall section, I would consider carefully cutting all of the studs down enough to insert another 2 x 4 for a doubled-up top-plate.
Am I reading correctly that you're building them without a top plate at all, and raising them to attach to a top plate, or are you raising a completed section that sits next to another 2 x 4? I can't really imagine toe-nailing all those studs to a top plate already in place, so you must be doing something like #2, eh?
(This is why I did my last basement project with steel studs/plates. Oh, steel studs, how I loved thee.)
posted by maxwelton at 9:21 PM on January 2, 2010
If it was my wall section, I would consider carefully cutting all of the studs down enough to insert another 2 x 4 for a doubled-up top-plate.
Am I reading correctly that you're building them without a top plate at all, and raising them to attach to a top plate, or are you raising a completed section that sits next to another 2 x 4? I can't really imagine toe-nailing all those studs to a top plate already in place, so you must be doing something like #2, eh?
(This is why I did my last basement project with steel studs/plates. Oh, steel studs, how I loved thee.)
posted by maxwelton at 9:21 PM on January 2, 2010
Oh - not a big deal. Plenty of solutions.
Rip a 1/4 " shim out of a 2X4 and use as your bottom or top plate shim
or
rip some 1/4 shim parts and screw threw the top plate and the shim into the joist above
or
make some 1/4 shim blocks and stand your bottom plate on them and shoot your redheads through the bottom plate and the shim
or
well you get the idea. Just make it laterally stable and attached at top and bottom.
Drywall will hide this goof and only you, we, and the internet will ever know.
posted by BrooksCooper at 10:51 PM on January 2, 2010
Rip a 1/4 " shim out of a 2X4 and use as your bottom or top plate shim
or
rip some 1/4 shim parts and screw threw the top plate and the shim into the joist above
or
make some 1/4 shim blocks and stand your bottom plate on them and shoot your redheads through the bottom plate and the shim
or
well you get the idea. Just make it laterally stable and attached at top and bottom.
Drywall will hide this goof and only you, we, and the internet will ever know.
posted by BrooksCooper at 10:51 PM on January 2, 2010
The amount of stupid shimming I find whenever I break into a wall in our 1991 gutted-rehabbed 19th-century four-unit is probably enough to make Bob Vila do a spit-take. It's probably less common than that in general, but more common than you think. When you're fitting something new to something old, especially when the old stuff used irregular rather than modern nominal lumber, you're always going to have little mismatches like this to solve, alas.
Just remember next time: measure twice, cut once, and never assume. Especially in old stuff, never assume squareness.
posted by dhartung at 11:06 PM on January 2, 2010
Just remember next time: measure twice, cut once, and never assume. Especially in old stuff, never assume squareness.
posted by dhartung at 11:06 PM on January 2, 2010
If a ripped piece of plywood will fit nicely in the gap then use that. Otherwise install an adjustable shim made from a pair of cedar shingles, one from each side, about 3" wide every 12" or so between the two top plates. Face the pointy ends of the shingles toward each other in the gap and drive them past each other with a hammer until the slack is taken up. Then sink a couple of 3" screws or nails thru the lower top plate, through the shims and then into the upper top plate. Cut off the sections of shingles that aresticking past the plates with either a hand saw or a sawzall. Doing this will keep everything tight and will be structurally sound.
FYI you don't even need a doubled top plate in non load bearing walls; careful planning of plate member terminations will allow a scab to be installed between studs to hold everything together.
posted by Mitheral at 2:15 AM on January 3, 2010
FYI you don't even need a doubled top plate in non load bearing walls; careful planning of plate member terminations will allow a scab to be installed between studs to hold everything together.
posted by Mitheral at 2:15 AM on January 3, 2010
You probably never would have been able to stand up the wall without the gap. If it was me, I'd use the opportunity to shove something under the wall that was moisture resistant to bring it up.
posted by gjc at 5:35 AM on January 3, 2010
posted by gjc at 5:35 AM on January 3, 2010
gjc is correct. You need the gap to turn the wall perpendicular.
posted by Neiltupper at 6:40 AM on January 3, 2010
posted by Neiltupper at 6:40 AM on January 3, 2010
Shimming the wall for a non-load bearing wall is perfectly fine. You probably only need to shim every four feet or so. You don't need to do it at each stud since the wall is non-bearing.
Here is the way to avoid that mistake in the future and to fit a wall between an uneven floor and ceiling joists.
Let's assume that you will have a single top and bottom plate. You cut the top and bottom plates to length and then lay them both on the floor on top of each other along the chalk line for the wall. So you have three inches of wood on the floor. Mark the position of each stud on the side of the two stacked plates using your combi-square. Spread out your studs on the floor next to each stud position. Then stand up each stud on the two plates and mark where they touch the ceiling joist. Cut each stud on the mark and it be the exact length for that position in the wall. Lay it back down on the floor in position. Now assemble your studs and plates and the wall will be the exact height to fit. Because of the angle when standing up the wall, you may need a few taps with sledge hammer to persuade it into place, but when vertical it will fit perfectly.
Whenever possible in construction, especially for remodeling when things can be out of kilter, use the opportunity to temporarily fit a piece of wood and mark it in place rather measuring and transferring the measurement which is subject to error.
posted by JackFlash at 9:57 AM on January 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
Here is the way to avoid that mistake in the future and to fit a wall between an uneven floor and ceiling joists.
Let's assume that you will have a single top and bottom plate. You cut the top and bottom plates to length and then lay them both on the floor on top of each other along the chalk line for the wall. So you have three inches of wood on the floor. Mark the position of each stud on the side of the two stacked plates using your combi-square. Spread out your studs on the floor next to each stud position. Then stand up each stud on the two plates and mark where they touch the ceiling joist. Cut each stud on the mark and it be the exact length for that position in the wall. Lay it back down on the floor in position. Now assemble your studs and plates and the wall will be the exact height to fit. Because of the angle when standing up the wall, you may need a few taps with sledge hammer to persuade it into place, but when vertical it will fit perfectly.
Whenever possible in construction, especially for remodeling when things can be out of kilter, use the opportunity to temporarily fit a piece of wood and mark it in place rather measuring and transferring the measurement which is subject to error.
posted by JackFlash at 9:57 AM on January 3, 2010 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'd rip a strip of 1/4 material to the width of a 2x4 and attach that to the top plate. You'll have a thicker top plate than normal, but it won't hurt anything.
posted by nangar at 9:21 PM on January 2, 2010