Patching a hole for re-use
December 8, 2009 12:01 AM Subscribe
How to patch an old screw hole so it can be reused (UK).
There have been a few similar questions in the past but none identical so I thought I would ask again.
My curtain rail has come down, ripping out the rawl plugs and leaving both the holes I drilled for them and wider, shallow holes in the very top of the plaster. The underlying reason for this is because the holes I drilled aren't really deep enough. This is because the wall quickly turns into something very hard which I just can't drill through. I assume this concrete as it is a modern flat with large amounts of concrete visible elsewhere. Alternatively I've heard the door underneath the curtain may have a metal plate surrounding it beneath the plaster.
Usually I would just Polyfilla and sand a hole. However, in this case I really need to re-use the holes, not just cover them over. Is there a type of filler with a long applicator that I could fill the whole hole with? Or could I fill the hole with something solid and then patch it as usual?
Because the door is in the corner of the room, moving the holes isn't really an option. Any suggestions gratefully received but remember I'm in the UK.
There have been a few similar questions in the past but none identical so I thought I would ask again.
My curtain rail has come down, ripping out the rawl plugs and leaving both the holes I drilled for them and wider, shallow holes in the very top of the plaster. The underlying reason for this is because the holes I drilled aren't really deep enough. This is because the wall quickly turns into something very hard which I just can't drill through. I assume this concrete as it is a modern flat with large amounts of concrete visible elsewhere. Alternatively I've heard the door underneath the curtain may have a metal plate surrounding it beneath the plaster.
Usually I would just Polyfilla and sand a hole. However, in this case I really need to re-use the holes, not just cover them over. Is there a type of filler with a long applicator that I could fill the whole hole with? Or could I fill the hole with something solid and then patch it as usual?
Because the door is in the corner of the room, moving the holes isn't really an option. Any suggestions gratefully received but remember I'm in the UK.
Best answer: If drilling the holes deeper is something you'd like to do, you can use a masonry bit in a "hammer drill" to get into the concrete. This is what I would recommend for the strongest connection with the wall. I would also recommend using an epoxy compound to glue the (deeper) rawl plugs in place. This will obviously be a permanent fixture, I'm not sure if that matters. Once the rawls are secure, you can patch with polyfilla around the repair.
Otherwise, I'm not convinced you can hang anything permanently up just using the plaster. If plaster means gypsum wall board and the board is furred out from the concrete, then you can use butterfly screws, possibly. But if it is just a skim of plaster on the concrete, or wall board which is directly against the concrete, you're out of luck, the plaster just won't take the load.
posted by maxwelton at 12:14 AM on December 8, 2009
Otherwise, I'm not convinced you can hang anything permanently up just using the plaster. If plaster means gypsum wall board and the board is furred out from the concrete, then you can use butterfly screws, possibly. But if it is just a skim of plaster on the concrete, or wall board which is directly against the concrete, you're out of luck, the plaster just won't take the load.
posted by maxwelton at 12:14 AM on December 8, 2009
Best answer: Seconding what maxwelton said, but I wouldn't try a hammer drill in case you start to remove too much plaster and make the hole larger, but not deeper. It may very well be metal underneath. I would try using a smaller than you need masonary drill bit and SLOWLY drilling it with a variable speed drill. The reason being if it is metal you probably won't drill through it anyways (unless you proceed very slowly and carefully with a sharp high speed metal drill bit), but if its masonry, you could drill that by making a smaller hole first ( again, go slowly as these small bits can overheat and bend), and then make that hole bigger using the larger size of drill bit you actually need. When I say need, by that I mean the size of hole you need to use a new plug. If it is metal behind the plaster, go slowly and let the drill bit cool off now and then.
posted by Taurid at 12:55 AM on December 8, 2009
posted by Taurid at 12:55 AM on December 8, 2009
I've usually solved this by filling the hole with that liquidy, white wood glue (called Vinavil here in Italy), and then, while it's still fresh, forcing in as many wooden matchsticks (without the flammable heads!) or toothpicks I could. Toothpicks particularly useful as they have a pointed end. Gently hammer the last ones in, then wipe off the superfluous glue that has been squeezed out. Within 5 minutes it's set enough to smooth off the "tails" of the toothpicks to the level of the wall and then start over again with the screws.
Unless, of course, as maxwelton says, you have only a thin layer of plaster on top of the underlying concrete or metal. Which won't support any weight at all.
posted by aqsakal at 1:22 AM on December 8, 2009
Unless, of course, as maxwelton says, you have only a thin layer of plaster on top of the underlying concrete or metal. Which won't support any weight at all.
posted by aqsakal at 1:22 AM on December 8, 2009
Response by poster: I've tried using a metal bit without any progress. The smallest masonry bit I have is much too big for the size of hole I want to make so it sounds like I need to buy a new, smaller one and then proceed cautiously.
In terms of epoxy, is this simply a case of making sure the hole is clean, squirting in some epoxy and then pushing the rawl plug in?
posted by ninebelow at 1:22 AM on December 8, 2009
In terms of epoxy, is this simply a case of making sure the hole is clean, squirting in some epoxy and then pushing the rawl plug in?
posted by ninebelow at 1:22 AM on December 8, 2009
You might also try inserting (hammering) the largest plastic wall anchor you can use into the hole, in order to fill it as much as possible, then screwing into that. This may allow you to use a slightly shorter screw as well.
posted by Work to Live at 1:59 AM on December 8, 2009
posted by Work to Live at 1:59 AM on December 8, 2009
Even if you do drill out the hole too big in the masonry there are plenty of options available. In fact it's necessary the way I would do it. I am assuming you struck concrete. Drill out the hole a little bit large. Go to the hardware store and buy a plastic expansion anchor (scroll down) that is slightly smaller than your hole, (about 25 cents here in the U.S.), buy one that comes with a screw. Price epoxy or a tube of construction adhesive + caulk gun, buy the cheaper or whatever you'll use more of. Drive the screw that came with your anchor 1/2 way into the anchor. Put on crappy clothes. Blow the dust out of the holes and squirt in enough of whichever goo you bought to fill the void between the anchor and the hole plus a tiny little bit. Push the anchor/screw into the goo such that the anchor (the plastic part) is flush with the surface of the adjacent undamaged plaster wall, a little below is ok too. If the excess goo is protruding past the surface of your wall wipe some off, if not leave it be. Let it dry. Repair holes in plaster.
(If it is concrete this will be ridiculously strong, basically = the shear strength of the screw. If I were doing it at home I might try just the expansion anchor without the goo first, the foregoing is what I would do if hired to do the work.)*
I would be very careful that any metal you might be drilling into isn't re-bar. If you seem to be hitting metal of any sort I would move the hole laterally away from the window about an inch.
*On preview, what Work to Live said.
posted by vapidave at 2:38 AM on December 8, 2009
(If it is concrete this will be ridiculously strong, basically = the shear strength of the screw. If I were doing it at home I might try just the expansion anchor without the goo first, the foregoing is what I would do if hired to do the work.)*
I would be very careful that any metal you might be drilling into isn't re-bar. If you seem to be hitting metal of any sort I would move the hole laterally away from the window about an inch.
*On preview, what Work to Live said.
posted by vapidave at 2:38 AM on December 8, 2009
The standard way to hang a curtain rail in situations like this is to screw a batten (strip of wood) to the wall and then screw the rail to that. This gives you some leeway in where you have to screw into the wall and you can use as many screws as you see fit rather than being limited to the curtain rail fixings. A 50 x 15 mm strip of pine should be enough. Drill pilot holes in the timber – wide enough to fit the screws through without biting – countersink and then screw it into the wall with expansion plugs. Prime & paint the batten to match the wall colour.
If you want some extra grip, run a bead of Gripfill or No More Nails along the batten where it will meet the wall after removing any loose paint & plaster. (The bond is only as good as the surface it's bonding to.)
For complete badass attachment/hole-filling fun, Kem-fix is the way to go. Anything that is applied with a skeleton gun is always going to be fun...
posted by i_cola at 3:25 AM on December 8, 2009
If you want some extra grip, run a bead of Gripfill or No More Nails along the batten where it will meet the wall after removing any loose paint & plaster. (The bond is only as good as the surface it's bonding to.)
For complete badass attachment/hole-filling fun, Kem-fix is the way to go. Anything that is applied with a skeleton gun is always going to be fun...
posted by i_cola at 3:25 AM on December 8, 2009
Best answer: I've used plug it polyfilla (you can get it in Focus or B&Q easily) to do this; it's stronger than standard polyfilla and will take the weight of your curtain better than the original plaster. Of course, the surrounding plaster may not be strong enough even after that repair so the batten approach to spread the load, or getting a suitable size masonry drill to go through into the wall behind would be the proper followup step.
Also, how powerful is your drill? It's a *lot* easier to drill holes in concrete or masonry with a hammer drill than just a basic power drill - check to see if your drill has a hammer mode switch (it switches the clutch over so the drill bit is pounded in and out a little while drilling, which breaks up hard, brittle surfaces like concrete under the drill tip). You can get also get rotary hammer drills which are even more powerful, but overkill for hanging a curtain.
posted by ArkhanJG at 5:43 AM on December 8, 2009
Also, how powerful is your drill? It's a *lot* easier to drill holes in concrete or masonry with a hammer drill than just a basic power drill - check to see if your drill has a hammer mode switch (it switches the clutch over so the drill bit is pounded in and out a little while drilling, which breaks up hard, brittle surfaces like concrete under the drill tip). You can get also get rotary hammer drills which are even more powerful, but overkill for hanging a curtain.
posted by ArkhanJG at 5:43 AM on December 8, 2009
Response by poster: I've got a modern hammer drill. In fact, this is because I burnt out the motor of my previous drill on an interior wall. The flat is very sturdily constructed! However, the problem with the hammer setting is the one Taurid indentifies: widening rather than deepening the hole and cracking the surrounding plaster.
I'm adverse to battening it because aesthetically it would look off and really, considering the length and weight of the curtain and rail the load should be supportable without it. However, if this other options aren't feasible I will have to consider it.
Thank you very much for the link (and tutorial) for Plug It Polyfilla though. I will be checking it out.
posted by ninebelow at 6:17 AM on December 8, 2009
I'm adverse to battening it because aesthetically it would look off and really, considering the length and weight of the curtain and rail the load should be supportable without it. However, if this other options aren't feasible I will have to consider it.
Thank you very much for the link (and tutorial) for Plug It Polyfilla though. I will be checking it out.
posted by ninebelow at 6:17 AM on December 8, 2009
Here's what I'd do-
go to the hardware store and find a suitable masonry anchor. I like the ones that are extruded plastic that look sort of thick drinking straws. Drill a hole that it will fit into. Hammer the anchor into the concrete, and then use plaster repair stuff to fix the wall around the anchor. When it dries, screw the curtain rod into the anchor.
posted by gjc at 7:25 AM on December 8, 2009
go to the hardware store and find a suitable masonry anchor. I like the ones that are extruded plastic that look sort of thick drinking straws. Drill a hole that it will fit into. Hammer the anchor into the concrete, and then use plaster repair stuff to fix the wall around the anchor. When it dries, screw the curtain rod into the anchor.
posted by gjc at 7:25 AM on December 8, 2009
Response by poster: In the end I decided the holes were deep enough and the plaster was strong enough not to need to drill out further. I just used the Plug It Polyfilla which I wouldn't have known about since my local shop didn't keep it with the other fillers. That stuff is absolutely brilliant. Cheers!
posted by ninebelow at 12:58 AM on December 10, 2009
posted by ninebelow at 12:58 AM on December 10, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Like its 1997 at 12:13 AM on December 8, 2009