What kind of word does an entry level PHP programmer do the first few months on the job?
September 24, 2009 9:59 PM Subscribe
What can I expect in terms of daily tasks from an entry level php programmer?
I'll be looking for an entry level position as a php programmer eventually and I was wondering what basic knowledge I will need and what sort of tasks I'll be asked to do. I want to be able do those things and I'd like to know what the first few months for an entry level PHP programmer would be like. I've looked at interview questions on the internet, but are those for advanced programmers? I find I can answer a fair number of them but not all by any means. I can usually figure something out by looking on the web. I'm very light on Javascript and Ajax but studying it as we speak. I am concentrating on OOP and MVC (separation of content from scripts).
My background is in data operations (computer operator). I have a fair amount of light database work (queries, fixing screwed up records). I understand the basics of data normalization, subqueries, joins. I am currently working on a travel oriented site (CodeIgniter) and will have that finished before I even submit a resume. I do not have a degree in CS, though I have taken a few courses.
Also, I am 45 years old and am worried about know how much of an effect that will have.
I'll be looking for an entry level position as a php programmer eventually and I was wondering what basic knowledge I will need and what sort of tasks I'll be asked to do. I want to be able do those things and I'd like to know what the first few months for an entry level PHP programmer would be like. I've looked at interview questions on the internet, but are those for advanced programmers? I find I can answer a fair number of them but not all by any means. I can usually figure something out by looking on the web. I'm very light on Javascript and Ajax but studying it as we speak. I am concentrating on OOP and MVC (separation of content from scripts).
My background is in data operations (computer operator). I have a fair amount of light database work (queries, fixing screwed up records). I understand the basics of data normalization, subqueries, joins. I am currently working on a travel oriented site (CodeIgniter) and will have that finished before I even submit a resume. I do not have a degree in CS, though I have taken a few courses.
Also, I am 45 years old and am worried about know how much of an effect that will have.
It would vary dramatically from place to place. I don't think there's one good answer.
posted by delmoi at 11:02 PM on September 24, 2009
posted by delmoi at 11:02 PM on September 24, 2009
Best answer: I've seen entry level programmers (not specifically PHP ones) be given testing, bug fixing and refactoring / housekeeping work. Tasks that are simple and require you to spend some time in the employer's code base so you start to know your way around. Any kind of "tidying up" that the other developers know needs doing but haven't found the time for. This will be done under close supervision.
As for your age; it will probably worry potential employers that you will be asking the salary of a 45 year old while not having the ability to back it up; or that you won't fit in, if it's a small company full of single graduates in their 20s and 30s. You might find it easier applying to much larger companies, or ones who's main business isn't software (for example, I worked in the software department of a factory). Those places may have a wider age range of staff at all pay grades, and more experience with people who have to be trained on the job, so they may find it easier to see you fitting in there.
posted by emilyw at 11:54 PM on September 24, 2009
As for your age; it will probably worry potential employers that you will be asking the salary of a 45 year old while not having the ability to back it up; or that you won't fit in, if it's a small company full of single graduates in their 20s and 30s. You might find it easier applying to much larger companies, or ones who's main business isn't software (for example, I worked in the software department of a factory). Those places may have a wider age range of staff at all pay grades, and more experience with people who have to be trained on the job, so they may find it easier to see you fitting in there.
posted by emilyw at 11:54 PM on September 24, 2009
Response by poster: thanks emilyw
I won't be asking for the salary of a 45 year old. I expect to make what a 20 year old would make. I'll work for $10 an hour. I'll work for $5 an hour if they allow me to work 60 hours a week. I need time under my belt.
posted by zorro astor at 12:07 AM on September 25, 2009
I won't be asking for the salary of a 45 year old. I expect to make what a 20 year old would make. I'll work for $10 an hour. I'll work for $5 an hour if they allow me to work 60 hours a week. I need time under my belt.
posted by zorro astor at 12:07 AM on September 25, 2009
It depends on where you end up working, and the size of the team you're in.
A large programming department, and you may be given front-end, HTML-y stuff to do, or basic form processing scripts, or maintenance work on existing applications. Work for a smaller company/team, and you may end up being a Jack (or Jill) of all trades, and end up doing anything and everything that comes through the door.
I started as a junior in a web team, maintaining community forums (bug fixes, additions etc). My next job was as a 'senior web developer' (I was the *only* web developer) and I did everything, up to and including major company CMS systems - again, whatever came through the door :)
posted by mahke at 12:21 AM on September 25, 2009
A large programming department, and you may be given front-end, HTML-y stuff to do, or basic form processing scripts, or maintenance work on existing applications. Work for a smaller company/team, and you may end up being a Jack (or Jill) of all trades, and end up doing anything and everything that comes through the door.
I started as a junior in a web team, maintaining community forums (bug fixes, additions etc). My next job was as a 'senior web developer' (I was the *only* web developer) and I did everything, up to and including major company CMS systems - again, whatever came through the door :)
posted by mahke at 12:21 AM on September 25, 2009
My guess is that an entry level php programmer isn't going to be expected to really have a handle on architectural stuff like OOP and normalization/schema design. Not that it won't be helpful to understand those things, of course; it will make you better at your job— but I see plenty of php programmers getting along with no clue about such things. (Alas.)
The thing you don't mention that comes to mind is the really practical nuts-and-bolts of HTML, CSS, how a browser interacts with a website, common security pitfalls, web-designers' names for the visual elements you'll often find on a website, that kind of thing. You mention you're working on a website already, so you probably do know this stuff; I just thought I'd mention it.
posted by hattifattener at 12:28 AM on September 25, 2009
The thing you don't mention that comes to mind is the really practical nuts-and-bolts of HTML, CSS, how a browser interacts with a website, common security pitfalls, web-designers' names for the visual elements you'll often find on a website, that kind of thing. You mention you're working on a website already, so you probably do know this stuff; I just thought I'd mention it.
posted by hattifattener at 12:28 AM on September 25, 2009
Definitely make sure you're up to speed on the broad web knowledge and client-side stuff hattifattener mentioned. In a lot of firms someone doing PHP will also be creating templates from scratch from supplied designs, and that's a whole skillset in itself.
posted by malevolent at 1:21 AM on September 25, 2009
posted by malevolent at 1:21 AM on September 25, 2009
that wasn't clear; I meant, potential employers may toss your resume because they assume you will want the salary of a 45yo, so it may be wise to make your expectations clear on a cover letter. Similarly, they may assume that because you are old enough to have a family that you won't be willing to do large amounts of unpaid overtime.
disclaimer: my experience is in client applications, not web development.
posted by emilyw at 1:34 AM on September 25, 2009
disclaimer: my experience is in client applications, not web development.
posted by emilyw at 1:34 AM on September 25, 2009
The larger the company, the more likely that they will have separate teams doing front-end work. Having a decent understanding of HTML and CSS (and, ideally, Javascript and at least one Javascript framework) will give you more options when looking for work.
When my company (midrange size -- about 150 people) looks for entry level PHP programmers, we generally look for people that can answer basic questions about PHP and do well on the whiteboard when asked general algorithm questions. Understanding the concepts behind MVC, and having a decent grasp of SQL (especially MySQL, for most companies) are also pluses.
If you just want time under your belt you might also want to check into internships. We've hired a couple of develops that started out as interns, and it's worked out really well for us.
posted by brool at 3:31 AM on September 25, 2009
When my company (midrange size -- about 150 people) looks for entry level PHP programmers, we generally look for people that can answer basic questions about PHP and do well on the whiteboard when asked general algorithm questions. Understanding the concepts behind MVC, and having a decent grasp of SQL (especially MySQL, for most companies) are also pluses.
If you just want time under your belt you might also want to check into internships. We've hired a couple of develops that started out as interns, and it's worked out really well for us.
posted by brool at 3:31 AM on September 25, 2009
Best answer: In my experience (working for or with a dozen different firms) I think it's impossible to know what to expect. You need to decide first what kind of firm you'd be happy working for.
There's the small ones (say 3 - 10 employees), where the work is building lots of small sites for different customers, or maybe doing work contracted out from larger organisations. These small firms range in focus from very technically-focussed to very design-driven. In the latter case you could find yourself being the sole technical person in a team of designers, which can be quite fun. Or you might find yourself in a small team of highly-skilled jack-of-all-trade types, where you'll be expected to build sites from scratch and do everything from database design to CSS layouts. There are often no 'entry-level' positions with these firms; they often want you to be up to speed within a few days.
Larger firms, particularly those where the work is all on internal systems, will tend to have more specialised roles, and a more formal and hierarchical structure. Here you'll have to learn and conform to the firm's chosen methodologies. There will be a period of being given small, less critical tasks while you learn how the systems (or those parts you'll be working with) are put together, before you're put into any kind of position of trust. If you prefer your work to be highly structured, narrowly focussed and supervised, this may be a better fit for you. On the other hand, if you prefer a lot of flexibility in the way you work, along with never knowing quite what's round the next corner, you may like working for the former kind of firm.
Use your job-hunting process to research the different kinds of roles available in different-sized firms. The programming may be similar but the environments can vary radically.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 3:37 AM on September 25, 2009
There's the small ones (say 3 - 10 employees), where the work is building lots of small sites for different customers, or maybe doing work contracted out from larger organisations. These small firms range in focus from very technically-focussed to very design-driven. In the latter case you could find yourself being the sole technical person in a team of designers, which can be quite fun. Or you might find yourself in a small team of highly-skilled jack-of-all-trade types, where you'll be expected to build sites from scratch and do everything from database design to CSS layouts. There are often no 'entry-level' positions with these firms; they often want you to be up to speed within a few days.
Larger firms, particularly those where the work is all on internal systems, will tend to have more specialised roles, and a more formal and hierarchical structure. Here you'll have to learn and conform to the firm's chosen methodologies. There will be a period of being given small, less critical tasks while you learn how the systems (or those parts you'll be working with) are put together, before you're put into any kind of position of trust. If you prefer your work to be highly structured, narrowly focussed and supervised, this may be a better fit for you. On the other hand, if you prefer a lot of flexibility in the way you work, along with never knowing quite what's round the next corner, you may like working for the former kind of firm.
Use your job-hunting process to research the different kinds of roles available in different-sized firms. The programming may be similar but the environments can vary radically.
posted by le morte de bea arthur at 3:37 AM on September 25, 2009
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posted by zorro astor at 9:59 PM on September 24, 2009