Would it be unwise to get a private pilot's license if I'm applying to the Air Force Academy?
September 13, 2009 3:00 PM Subscribe
I'm applying to the Air Force Academy. Would it be wise to get a private pilot's license now?
I'm in the process of applying for the Air Force Academy. It's been made clear to me that they prefer pilots over others during the screening process. I would like to become a pilot and flying is very interesting to me, but I have no prior experience. I'd also like to gain every advantage possible so that I might get in to the Academy.
Would it be smart, financially, to get a private pilot's license now? If I get in to the Academy, I'll be taught everything I need to know for free. Won't this make the $7000 or so spent a waste?
If I don't get in, I'm planning on going AFROTC at another university. Would having the license be advantageous in any way if I go this route?
I love the idea of flying and I'm hoping that there's some way I can get up in the air in the near future. Help, Mefites!
(Thanks!)
I'm in the process of applying for the Air Force Academy. It's been made clear to me that they prefer pilots over others during the screening process. I would like to become a pilot and flying is very interesting to me, but I have no prior experience. I'd also like to gain every advantage possible so that I might get in to the Academy.
Would it be smart, financially, to get a private pilot's license now? If I get in to the Academy, I'll be taught everything I need to know for free. Won't this make the $7000 or so spent a waste?
If I don't get in, I'm planning on going AFROTC at another university. Would having the license be advantageous in any way if I go this route?
I love the idea of flying and I'm hoping that there's some way I can get up in the air in the near future. Help, Mefites!
(Thanks!)
Are you aware that every US Senator is permitted to nominate candidates for the military academies?
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 3:04 PM on September 13, 2009
Best answer: Do not hesitate to make the investment if you are serious. You've been correctly informed on this point.
posted by jbenben at 3:49 PM on September 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by jbenben at 3:49 PM on September 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
It wouldn't hurt. You will need a private rating before going to UPT anyway. Good luck with the selection process.
When you get selected and start serving, don't be a prick. All of the biggest pricks I have met were academy guys. There is no reason to treat enlisted people like that.
posted by Silvertree at 4:12 PM on September 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
When you get selected and start serving, don't be a prick. All of the biggest pricks I have met were academy guys. There is no reason to treat enlisted people like that.
posted by Silvertree at 4:12 PM on September 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Chocolate Pickle, I don't think you understand the process of applying to a service academy, and your answer has nothing to do with the question. In order to apply, you have to get a nomination (unless you have a parent who is active duty military or falls into certain categories of veterans). The poster is asking whether other factors, such as pilot training, will increase the chances of being chosen from among the thousands of people who are nominated each year.
posted by decathecting at 4:58 PM on September 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by decathecting at 4:58 PM on September 13, 2009 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I would say if you have the money, go for it. Better to find out right now if you're truly interested instead of halfway through the academy. Otherwise, I am not familiar with how it would reflect on your application, but I have to think that it certainly wouldn't hurt.
Bear in mind that military pilot training is not specifically transferable to a civilian ticket - that is, if you want to fly your Piper after a grueling day in the F-22, you'll still need a civil pilot's license (which, if I remember correctly, does not transfer any of your military flying hours - you'll be starting from scratch).
posted by backseatpilot at 5:11 PM on September 13, 2009
Bear in mind that military pilot training is not specifically transferable to a civilian ticket - that is, if you want to fly your Piper after a grueling day in the F-22, you'll still need a civil pilot's license (which, if I remember correctly, does not transfer any of your military flying hours - you'll be starting from scratch).
posted by backseatpilot at 5:11 PM on September 13, 2009
Best answer: If you want to fly then get the license. It will be a good investment whether you get into the academy or not. The experience and training will always stick with you and will give you the opportunity to build practice at the academy instead of learning basic skills. My theory is that the more advanced you are when you get high levels of training you'll come out even farther ahead.
The one thing I would avoid is thinking of it as a $7,000 investment to get into the academy. It is an investment in your life and dreams. Even if you don't get into the academy you'll know how to be a pilot. If you have that opportunity now, it is enormous!
If your question is about how to make a purely financially optimal decision then I think you need to provide more information about the opportunity costs you'd experience in getting the training now. I'm assuming from your question it is available and reasonably affordable to your current situation.
posted by meinvt at 5:15 PM on September 13, 2009
The one thing I would avoid is thinking of it as a $7,000 investment to get into the academy. It is an investment in your life and dreams. Even if you don't get into the academy you'll know how to be a pilot. If you have that opportunity now, it is enormous!
If your question is about how to make a purely financially optimal decision then I think you need to provide more information about the opportunity costs you'd experience in getting the training now. I'm assuming from your question it is available and reasonably affordable to your current situation.
posted by meinvt at 5:15 PM on September 13, 2009
Do you realize what is involved in getting a private pilot's license? Not only a lot of money, but a huge investment in time. I can't say for sure, but I doubt that it will effect your chances for appointment. I think high school grades and good education in math and science will be much more important. i think you're better off spending the time hitting the books, and finding out how your senators makes their appointments and what they require. Right now, you're guessing.
posted by charlesminus at 5:18 PM on September 13, 2009
posted by charlesminus at 5:18 PM on September 13, 2009
Seconding meinvt's comment about getting the license because you want to fly rather than because you want to get into the Academy.
That said, a private pilot's license will strengthen your application (especially if you're medically qualified to fly in the AF). Moreover, if you end up going the ROTC route and still want to fly on active duty, the private license will help your chances of getting a "pilot slot" (being chosen to attend UPT).
Please feel free to MeFi mail me if you have more questions.
posted by eabomo at 5:27 PM on September 13, 2009
That said, a private pilot's license will strengthen your application (especially if you're medically qualified to fly in the AF). Moreover, if you end up going the ROTC route and still want to fly on active duty, the private license will help your chances of getting a "pilot slot" (being chosen to attend UPT).
Please feel free to MeFi mail me if you have more questions.
posted by eabomo at 5:27 PM on September 13, 2009
My son is an Academy grad.
Honestly, I don't see that getting a pilot's license is at all necessary. Might look good as an extracurricular, but they are more looking for things like leadership experiences. Are you a student body class president or officer? Are you in charge of a club? Are you lettering in sports?
If you really want to fly, USAFA has more pilot slots than ROTC. Do know that if you get admitted, they will teach you to fly gliders. I heavily suggest that you pursue being a student IP (in other words, get accepted to learn to teach other cadets to fly gliders. ) My son did so, and did get a pilot slot. (He decided to turn it down and go into Security Forces instead, but that's not relevant at this point.)
Anyway-get the very best grades you can. Take as much hard science and math as you can. Go ahead and do AP courses-you would have an opportunity to test out of some Academy courses with that knowledge even if they didn't directly take the credit. Pick one or two extracurriculars and be in leadership in them. Also check out the Academy's summer programs for high school students.
PM me if you have any questions.....oh, and do think long and hard about the service academy route. It is an excellent education, and a wonderful place to graduate from, but it will indeed be four years of suck. It will not be the normal college experience. It will take a lot of intestinal fortitude and inner desire to stick it out. The rewards are worth it, I think, but it's not a route to take likely.
Good luck!
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:45 PM on September 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
Honestly, I don't see that getting a pilot's license is at all necessary. Might look good as an extracurricular, but they are more looking for things like leadership experiences. Are you a student body class president or officer? Are you in charge of a club? Are you lettering in sports?
If you really want to fly, USAFA has more pilot slots than ROTC. Do know that if you get admitted, they will teach you to fly gliders. I heavily suggest that you pursue being a student IP (in other words, get accepted to learn to teach other cadets to fly gliders. ) My son did so, and did get a pilot slot. (He decided to turn it down and go into Security Forces instead, but that's not relevant at this point.)
Anyway-get the very best grades you can. Take as much hard science and math as you can. Go ahead and do AP courses-you would have an opportunity to test out of some Academy courses with that knowledge even if they didn't directly take the credit. Pick one or two extracurriculars and be in leadership in them. Also check out the Academy's summer programs for high school students.
PM me if you have any questions.....oh, and do think long and hard about the service academy route. It is an excellent education, and a wonderful place to graduate from, but it will indeed be four years of suck. It will not be the normal college experience. It will take a lot of intestinal fortitude and inner desire to stick it out. The rewards are worth it, I think, but it's not a route to take likely.
Good luck!
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:45 PM on September 13, 2009 [1 favorite]
*lightly* arg!
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:47 PM on September 13, 2009
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 6:47 PM on September 13, 2009
I'm a private pilot with no military service record. If you really want to fly, get the license. You can get your private pilot glider rating for less than $4000 (which I'd recommend, but I'm a biased glider driver). Private single-engine land is probably better from their perspective, but from what I understand, you've got the $7000-ish price about right. I'd disagree with the people who say it's not feasible to get your private ticket and complete school earning AFA-worthy grades. I know guys who did, and I can vouch for at least my own ability to earn the glider ticket while actively in graduate school.
You sound like you're applying for next fall (deadline in January-ish?). I think it's do-able, assuming you're willing to eat, sleep and breathe aviation whenever you're not eating, sleeping and breathing academics. Fly several days a week after school, plus the weekends, if you can -- it sounds like a lot, but skill atrophy will make your life hard (and potentially unsafe) if you only fly on the weekends, especially with low time.
Also, earning the private ticket will let you evaluate how you feel without the USAF aviation enlistment commitment hanging over your head. Good luck!
posted by Alterscape at 8:00 PM on September 13, 2009
You sound like you're applying for next fall (deadline in January-ish?). I think it's do-able, assuming you're willing to eat, sleep and breathe aviation whenever you're not eating, sleeping and breathing academics. Fly several days a week after school, plus the weekends, if you can -- it sounds like a lot, but skill atrophy will make your life hard (and potentially unsafe) if you only fly on the weekends, especially with low time.
Also, earning the private ticket will let you evaluate how you feel without the USAF aviation enlistment commitment hanging over your head. Good luck!
posted by Alterscape at 8:00 PM on September 13, 2009
Chocolate Pickle is actually on to something here. Unless you've got the recommendation of your senator or representative, whether or not you have a pilot's license may not matter. But I doubt they'd care much. The machines you'll be operating in the Air Force probably bear little resemblance to the ones you find at small aircraft fields.
posted by valkyryn at 4:00 AM on September 14, 2009
posted by valkyryn at 4:00 AM on September 14, 2009
Yes, it sounds as though the time and the money would be better spent flattering a legislator.
posted by Idcoytco at 4:37 AM on September 14, 2009
posted by Idcoytco at 4:37 AM on September 14, 2009
With private flying lessons, the price of a rental solo flight may be kept "low" by having you fly UNINSURED. Make sure you know the real cost (or risks).
posted by RichardS at 5:04 AM on September 14, 2009
posted by RichardS at 5:04 AM on September 14, 2009
You should look into the Civil Air Patrol. It is an auxiliary to the USAF, and depending on your local Wing may offer discounted pilot training. If you live near an civil air facility there is probably a CAP squadron near you.
posted by Gungho at 5:08 AM on September 14, 2009
posted by Gungho at 5:08 AM on September 14, 2009
Best answer: I am an Air Force Academy grad and spent six years as an instructor pilot teaching new Air Force pilot candidates to fly.
As far as getting into the Academy, a private license may help a tiny bit, but not much. The Academies are looking for high academic achievement and a well-rounded portfolio of extra-curricular activities. Flying lessons would certainly count, but no more so than sports, languages, clubs, jobs, volunteer work, etc. As you may be aware, the Academy maintains a network of liaison officers to advise prospective candidates on the nomination and admissions process. Your guidance counselor will be able to put you in touch with one.
Assuming you get into the Academy or an ROTC program, you will be screened for flying aptitude as a prerequisite to getting into Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT). It is in this screening program that some civilian flying experience may give you an advantage. They won't care if you come to them as a qualified pilot, but they'll want to know if you have the sense and coordination to be successful under the rigors of UPT. To get through this screening, you certainly wouldn't need to have a license, or even to have soloed, but some previous experience might help. Remember, though, that most Air Force pilots make it through the screening program and UPT with no previous flying experience.
As far as a private license helping you out in UPT: in a nutshell, don't waste your time and money. We always had one or two young officers in each class who had private licenses. It may have helped them out a little bit in the very early stages of training, say, up until solo. But after that, military training and civilian training are based on entirely different philosophies. In civilian training you are taught to stay comfortably within the airplane's flight envelope, rarely approaching the limits of what the machine can do. In military pilot training you are taught how to wring every ounce of performance out of the jet, and how to recover when you (inevitably) exceed the limits. Eventually, you will be very comfortable inverted and pulling five g's; when you get comfortable with that they'll teach you how to do it in formation. Then at night. Nothing you learned getting a private license will have much relevance.
MeMail me if you want more info. Best of luck.
posted by dinger at 1:59 PM on September 14, 2009
As far as getting into the Academy, a private license may help a tiny bit, but not much. The Academies are looking for high academic achievement and a well-rounded portfolio of extra-curricular activities. Flying lessons would certainly count, but no more so than sports, languages, clubs, jobs, volunteer work, etc. As you may be aware, the Academy maintains a network of liaison officers to advise prospective candidates on the nomination and admissions process. Your guidance counselor will be able to put you in touch with one.
Assuming you get into the Academy or an ROTC program, you will be screened for flying aptitude as a prerequisite to getting into Undergraduate Pilot Training (UPT). It is in this screening program that some civilian flying experience may give you an advantage. They won't care if you come to them as a qualified pilot, but they'll want to know if you have the sense and coordination to be successful under the rigors of UPT. To get through this screening, you certainly wouldn't need to have a license, or even to have soloed, but some previous experience might help. Remember, though, that most Air Force pilots make it through the screening program and UPT with no previous flying experience.
As far as a private license helping you out in UPT: in a nutshell, don't waste your time and money. We always had one or two young officers in each class who had private licenses. It may have helped them out a little bit in the very early stages of training, say, up until solo. But after that, military training and civilian training are based on entirely different philosophies. In civilian training you are taught to stay comfortably within the airplane's flight envelope, rarely approaching the limits of what the machine can do. In military pilot training you are taught how to wring every ounce of performance out of the jet, and how to recover when you (inevitably) exceed the limits. Eventually, you will be very comfortable inverted and pulling five g's; when you get comfortable with that they'll teach you how to do it in formation. Then at night. Nothing you learned getting a private license will have much relevance.
MeMail me if you want more info. Best of luck.
posted by dinger at 1:59 PM on September 14, 2009
Stepping in again briefly to correct some of the misconceptions put forth about the nomination and appointment process. You don't have to worry about "flattering" any congressmen or senators.
Each congressman and senator is allowed to have five appointees at each of the academies at any given time, so, in any given year each will be making one or two appointments, to fill whatever vacancies they have. For each appointment there will be ten nominees. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the member of congress will make these nominations on a competitive basis, using the results of a lengthy civil service exam that resembles the SAT. Once the results of the test come in, the member usually nominates the top ten, sends their names to the Academy, and essentially says, "Pick one." The Academy then combines the scores with the other selection criteria, such as leadership experiences and extracurricular activities, to arrive at a composite score. They tell the congressman or senator which one they want, and the that's the one who most likely gets the appointment.
posted by dinger at 2:23 PM on September 14, 2009
Each congressman and senator is allowed to have five appointees at each of the academies at any given time, so, in any given year each will be making one or two appointments, to fill whatever vacancies they have. For each appointment there will be ten nominees. In the overwhelming majority of cases, the member of congress will make these nominations on a competitive basis, using the results of a lengthy civil service exam that resembles the SAT. Once the results of the test come in, the member usually nominates the top ten, sends their names to the Academy, and essentially says, "Pick one." The Academy then combines the scores with the other selection criteria, such as leadership experiences and extracurricular activities, to arrive at a composite score. They tell the congressman or senator which one they want, and the that's the one who most likely gets the appointment.
posted by dinger at 2:23 PM on September 14, 2009
As far as what dinger said, ymmv greatly as far as what happens with a nomination. Our process was fairly easy compared to what dinger describes....IIRC it was mostly fill out a little paperwork and send in letters of recommendation. Each congressional or senatorial office has their own process and paperwork. We never even had to do an interview...but I have heard in some states they do do personal interviews and other things of that nature.
(We were/are in North Carolina. )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:42 PM on September 14, 2009
(We were/are in North Carolina. )
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 4:42 PM on September 14, 2009
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