Is the girlfriend too sensitive?
September 8, 2009 9:33 PM Subscribe
Why wasn't I invited on this fishing trip?
So let's just say I have a boyfriend who planned a fishing trip with one of his good friends he used to work with and sold his boat to. (Yes, I ended a sentence with a preposition, so what?) And let's just say that I told him, sincerely, he should go fishing with his friend and have a good time. Imagine that I said I wish I could go because I love to fish as well, but I understand how guys just need to be with the guys sometimes. No problem, right? So let's imagine that the boyfriend calls his daughter and invites her and her fiance to go fishing with him and his good friend. Should the girlfriend have her feelings hurt or is she just being too sensitive? (I am 53 years old and I should know better, but this kinda chaps my ass.)
So let's just say I have a boyfriend who planned a fishing trip with one of his good friends he used to work with and sold his boat to. (Yes, I ended a sentence with a preposition, so what?) And let's just say that I told him, sincerely, he should go fishing with his friend and have a good time. Imagine that I said I wish I could go because I love to fish as well, but I understand how guys just need to be with the guys sometimes. No problem, right? So let's imagine that the boyfriend calls his daughter and invites her and her fiance to go fishing with him and his good friend. Should the girlfriend have her feelings hurt or is she just being too sensitive? (I am 53 years old and I should know better, but this kinda chaps my ass.)
actually, too...
posted by The Light Fantastic at 9:40 PM on September 8, 2009
posted by The Light Fantastic at 9:40 PM on September 8, 2009
Best answer: Up to the point when you mentioned his daughter and your age, I thought you were off base. Now I think it unusual. But, I do not know your relationship with his daughter and her fiance. If you have little relationship then I can see it as a time for him and his daughter, etc. If you have an established and good relationship with her I think you are justified with a chapped ass. If the latter is the case, talk to bf and ask wtf.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:41 PM on September 8, 2009
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:41 PM on September 8, 2009
Should the girlfriend have her feelings hurt or is she just being too sensitive?
Impossible to say, and really not that important a question, honestly. If your feelings were hurt, you need to tell your boyfriend that, in a non-accusatory, non-judgemental way. "You know, boyf, I would have loved to go on that fishing trip, and while I was disappointed to not be invited, I understood, because I assumed it was a guy thing. When your daughter and her fiance were invited, my feelings were hurt, because it no longer seemed like an exclusive thing, yet I was still excluded. Can we plan a fishing trip for just the two of us some time? I'd love to go fishing with you." The test of a relationship is not if feelings are hurt -- as humans we hurt each others' feelings all the time, intentionally or not. The test of a relationship is how you and your partner deal with discovering you have hurt the other one's feelings.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:44 PM on September 8, 2009 [12 favorites]
Impossible to say, and really not that important a question, honestly. If your feelings were hurt, you need to tell your boyfriend that, in a non-accusatory, non-judgemental way. "You know, boyf, I would have loved to go on that fishing trip, and while I was disappointed to not be invited, I understood, because I assumed it was a guy thing. When your daughter and her fiance were invited, my feelings were hurt, because it no longer seemed like an exclusive thing, yet I was still excluded. Can we plan a fishing trip for just the two of us some time? I'd love to go fishing with you." The test of a relationship is not if feelings are hurt -- as humans we hurt each others' feelings all the time, intentionally or not. The test of a relationship is how you and your partner deal with discovering you have hurt the other one's feelings.
posted by Rock Steady at 9:44 PM on September 8, 2009 [12 favorites]
First thing, don't worry about "should" when it comes to your feelings. Sure, it would be great if this didn't hurt your feelings, but obviously it did, and just telling yourself you shouldn't feel hurt won't change your feelings. So acknowledge that your feelings were hurt, and figure out what you're going to do about it.
Personally, it sort of sounds like you set up a situation where your feelings were bound to be hurt. By dropping hints about how you'd like to go, you sent a weak enough signal that it's entirely likely he didn't pick up on it, but strong enough that you feel hurt not to have gotten an invite.
Since you're already hurt, just talk to him about it. In as much of a non-confrontational way as possible. You know that cheesy stuff about "I" instead of "you" statements? That stuff actually works in these sorts of situations. So in this instance, you could say "you know, maybe I'm being oversensitive, but I feel a little hurt you invited all these other people and not me. Was there a reason?"
Because if you just sit on this, and tell yourself you shouldn't feel this way, you'll just stew, and that's a good recipe for bitterness. But if you're honest with your boyfriend about your feelings, then he can be honest with you about why he didn't invite you. Maybe his friend is like family to his daughter and he wanted it to be family only. Maybe he didn't realize you wanted to go. But you won't know if you don't ask.
posted by lunasol at 9:46 PM on September 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Personally, it sort of sounds like you set up a situation where your feelings were bound to be hurt. By dropping hints about how you'd like to go, you sent a weak enough signal that it's entirely likely he didn't pick up on it, but strong enough that you feel hurt not to have gotten an invite.
Since you're already hurt, just talk to him about it. In as much of a non-confrontational way as possible. You know that cheesy stuff about "I" instead of "you" statements? That stuff actually works in these sorts of situations. So in this instance, you could say "you know, maybe I'm being oversensitive, but I feel a little hurt you invited all these other people and not me. Was there a reason?"
Because if you just sit on this, and tell yourself you shouldn't feel this way, you'll just stew, and that's a good recipe for bitterness. But if you're honest with your boyfriend about your feelings, then he can be honest with you about why he didn't invite you. Maybe his friend is like family to his daughter and he wanted it to be family only. Maybe he didn't realize you wanted to go. But you won't know if you don't ask.
posted by lunasol at 9:46 PM on September 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Well, it sounds like what you're asking is "are my hurt feelings his fault, or mine?" and I don't think random-internet-people really have the authority to decide (or that it's a useful distinction in an otherwise loving relationship). But what matters is that you have hurt feelings, and you and your boyfriend should make sure you're communicating better next time. What you individually can do is what everyone above me is saying - make sure your position is clear in the future, don't over-efface yourself with "oh but I know you probably don't want me along", and make sure he understands that you would expect to come along unless there's a good reason, [i]made clear to you[/i]. Father-daughter bonding may be a great reason, but you should have known that was the plan, not been blindsided by a sudden change. Even if it IS irrational to only make exceptions for "pre-approved guy time", these are conditions and boundaries that have to be worked out between you and your boyfriend.
posted by Lady Li at 9:52 PM on September 8, 2009
posted by Lady Li at 9:52 PM on September 8, 2009
Response by poster: I was very clear that I wanted to go, but I was also very clear that I know sometimes guys just need time with guys. I'm 53 years old. I know this about men. It's not a problem. His daughter and I have a very good relationship. We have fished together many times. I guess I just needed to hear that I should express my hurt feelings and quit being a pussy about it. Thank you.
posted by wv kay in ga at 9:57 PM on September 8, 2009
posted by wv kay in ga at 9:57 PM on September 8, 2009
Everyone needs social relaxation time without their romantic partner. Unless this is something that happens excessively, it's just not a big deal. Don't you need to spend time with other friends and family too?
posted by LittleMissCranky at 9:59 PM on September 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by LittleMissCranky at 9:59 PM on September 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
I should express my hurt feelings
No, you should express your desire to go on the fishing trip. You might think you were dropping hints that you would like to go fishing, but he might have seen it as you dropping hints that you did not want to go this time. The solution is to stop dropping hints and to say what you want.
posted by grouse at 10:00 PM on September 8, 2009 [4 favorites]
No, you should express your desire to go on the fishing trip. You might think you were dropping hints that you would like to go fishing, but he might have seen it as you dropping hints that you did not want to go this time. The solution is to stop dropping hints and to say what you want.
posted by grouse at 10:00 PM on September 8, 2009 [4 favorites]
Best answer: Yes. Girlfriend can have feelings hurt ---especially because she expressly told bf she would love to go fishing. However! the expression of desire to go fishing definitely qualifies as passive hint which likely was not picked up by bf.
It's wise to come clean with bf--simply regurgitating (not literally) your feelings about how this all came down. Example: "bf, I have to tell you I am feeling sad because you've invited your daughter on this fishing trip but not me..I wonder if you will tell me why you've elected to invite your daughter and her bf, but not me?..." It is certainly a fair question. The trick (I think) will be to ask this without coming across as all whiney and mopey. Honestly, I think if you ask the question without a specific outcome in mind (ie: like getting an invitation now) you will probably become enlightened (about this matter specifically) without a lot of fanfare. It's the type of thing that could go sideways quickly if you act accusatory and/or needy--but you definitely have a right to ask the question.
Hope you can sort it out!
posted by naplesyellow at 10:02 PM on September 8, 2009
It's wise to come clean with bf--simply regurgitating (not literally) your feelings about how this all came down. Example: "bf, I have to tell you I am feeling sad because you've invited your daughter on this fishing trip but not me..I wonder if you will tell me why you've elected to invite your daughter and her bf, but not me?..." It is certainly a fair question. The trick (I think) will be to ask this without coming across as all whiney and mopey. Honestly, I think if you ask the question without a specific outcome in mind (ie: like getting an invitation now) you will probably become enlightened (about this matter specifically) without a lot of fanfare. It's the type of thing that could go sideways quickly if you act accusatory and/or needy--but you definitely have a right to ask the question.
Hope you can sort it out!
posted by naplesyellow at 10:02 PM on September 8, 2009
Response by poster: Oh, yeah. I definitely don't want to be the whiney and mopey gf. But I now realize I need to make my feelings clear without being accusatory, just the facts. You made it sound like a guy thing, you didn't invite me, but you invited your daughter and her fiance, and my feelings are hurt. Now give me a hug and a kiss you big lug. LOL. Thank you all again.
posted by wv kay in ga at 10:11 PM on September 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by wv kay in ga at 10:11 PM on September 8, 2009 [2 favorites]
You made it sound like a guy thing, you didn't invite me, but you invited your daughter and her fiance, and my feelings are hurt. Now give me a hug and a kiss you big lug. LOL.
Exactly. It doesn't need to be the start of a discussion or even a question. Just let him know the situation so that he can choose to alter his behavior in the future.
posted by Rock Steady at 10:16 PM on September 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Exactly. It doesn't need to be the start of a discussion or even a question. Just let him know the situation so that he can choose to alter his behavior in the future.
posted by Rock Steady at 10:16 PM on September 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Damn, I'm a good girlfriend.
posted by wv kay in ga at 10:28 PM on September 8, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by wv kay in ga at 10:28 PM on September 8, 2009 [5 favorites]
Just doing the math, it seems like you (or more probably, the friend with the boat) would have been the fifth wheel. I certainly don't know the details, but maybe he wanted a chance to spend some face time with the daughter (but not too much, hence fiance) (and spawn + GF is not always most conducive to bonding time), and had an opportunity to combine the two: hang out with friend, and hang out with daughter, without having to worry about not giving enough attention to current GF (who rightfully would have occupied most of his attention had you been on the boat). I would guess that he didn't want to be stuck with just the friend, or just the daughter, but it sounds like he wouldn't mind being stuck with just you. Nevertheless, if it bothered you, mention it to him. Or maybe arrange a fishing trip for just the two of you.
posted by headless at 11:25 PM on September 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by headless at 11:25 PM on September 8, 2009 [1 favorite]
Was the invitation to daughter and fiance perhaps the result of circumstances you are not privy to? (I can do it too!)
For example: maybe your man ran into his future son-in-law, mentioned the fishing trip, spontaneously invited him, and then when the daughter found out she invited herself along because after all, it is her Dad.
I find a lot of time when I have hurt feelings like this, it's due to some assumptions I have made that turn out to be soooooo wrong when I find out the real story.
posted by smartypantz at 2:19 AM on September 9, 2009 [6 favorites]
For example: maybe your man ran into his future son-in-law, mentioned the fishing trip, spontaneously invited him, and then when the daughter found out she invited herself along because after all, it is her Dad.
I find a lot of time when I have hurt feelings like this, it's due to some assumptions I have made that turn out to be soooooo wrong when I find out the real story.
posted by smartypantz at 2:19 AM on September 9, 2009 [6 favorites]
It sounds to me like this was both a kind of dick move on his part and that he didn't mean to hurt your feelings. He probably didn't realize that you actually really wanted to go, hearing the "guys want to be with guys" part of what you said and leaving "I like fishing" lost in the ethers along with most things that women say and men never, ever hear.
The things that men say that women never hear are in different ethers.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:38 AM on September 9, 2009
The things that men say that women never hear are in different ethers.
posted by grapefruitmoon at 3:38 AM on September 9, 2009
Does his daughter like you?
posted by jacquilynne at 4:07 AM on September 9, 2009
posted by jacquilynne at 4:07 AM on September 9, 2009
Plates of beans, I think.
Dude misses his buddy, probably loved hanging out with the buddy and his daughter when she was young. Dude wants to hang with his buddy and daughter again, just like old times. Now, of course, fiance comes along because it's part of his integration into the family and possibly thought inviting him was the only way to get Daughter to go along. Maybe they're going to give him the business about how he'd better treat her.
My guess is that they've had this relationship (minus fiance) longer than he's had you---and neglected to think about bringing you.
Also, 5 people on a boat is a lot. 4 is too, but depending on the boat 5 is usually a pain in the ass...and I'm including 33 foot ocean going vessels.
Oversight on his part probably, but not critical.
Also, and because I'm a monster dick, I don't go for passive suggestion or aggression. If my girlfriend/friend/whomever says a thousand times "man that'd be awesome to go" instead of "hey is there room for me" or "would you mind if I went?" I'm generally pretty quick to respond with something clueless like "Yea, it's gonna be great!"
posted by TomMelee at 5:08 AM on September 9, 2009
Dude misses his buddy, probably loved hanging out with the buddy and his daughter when she was young. Dude wants to hang with his buddy and daughter again, just like old times. Now, of course, fiance comes along because it's part of his integration into the family and possibly thought inviting him was the only way to get Daughter to go along. Maybe they're going to give him the business about how he'd better treat her.
My guess is that they've had this relationship (minus fiance) longer than he's had you---and neglected to think about bringing you.
Also, 5 people on a boat is a lot. 4 is too, but depending on the boat 5 is usually a pain in the ass...and I'm including 33 foot ocean going vessels.
Oversight on his part probably, but not critical.
Also, and because I'm a monster dick, I don't go for passive suggestion or aggression. If my girlfriend/friend/whomever says a thousand times "man that'd be awesome to go" instead of "hey is there room for me" or "would you mind if I went?" I'm generally pretty quick to respond with something clueless like "Yea, it's gonna be great!"
posted by TomMelee at 5:08 AM on September 9, 2009
Did he see this as a strictly guys' outing? I don't think so. You bowed out, thinking it was men only, which left room in the boat for others. As for being "a good girlfriend," be a whole person, not a role.
posted by Carol Anne at 5:40 AM on September 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by Carol Anne at 5:40 AM on September 9, 2009 [2 favorites]
but I was also very clear that I know sometimes guys just need time with guys.
Guys also need time with their daughters and prospective son-in-laws, and guys need time with female friends, and guys need time alone. In other words, if the only time you give him a "get away from girlfriend free" card is when he is with his dude friends, maybe you are being a bit too controlling.
Just like yourself, he needs a balance of snuggle time and free time in his life, and he doesn't need you policing it. If the tables were turned, would you be happy about him policing whom you have chosen to invite on a trip to the art museum or whatever? In other words, give him the same freedom you would want for yourself.
And just as importantly, you can never assume that hinting about something ("gee, I'd love to go fishing someday") is the same as communicating clearly ("am I invited this weekend?"). And communicating later about how you feel ("I was really hurt that you didn't invite me") is not the same as communicating early -- what else can he say once the plans are set other than "sorry"? For something to be different, you need to be honest and clear early enough for it to make a difference.
posted by Forktine at 5:42 AM on September 9, 2009 [3 favorites]
Guys also need time with their daughters and prospective son-in-laws, and guys need time with female friends, and guys need time alone. In other words, if the only time you give him a "get away from girlfriend free" card is when he is with his dude friends, maybe you are being a bit too controlling.
Just like yourself, he needs a balance of snuggle time and free time in his life, and he doesn't need you policing it. If the tables were turned, would you be happy about him policing whom you have chosen to invite on a trip to the art museum or whatever? In other words, give him the same freedom you would want for yourself.
And just as importantly, you can never assume that hinting about something ("gee, I'd love to go fishing someday") is the same as communicating clearly ("am I invited this weekend?"). And communicating later about how you feel ("I was really hurt that you didn't invite me") is not the same as communicating early -- what else can he say once the plans are set other than "sorry"? For something to be different, you need to be honest and clear early enough for it to make a difference.
posted by Forktine at 5:42 AM on September 9, 2009 [3 favorites]
I think there is some good advice here -- it's definitely understandable to have your feelings hurt, but I don't think it was deliberate on his part, or snubbing you by inviting his daughter & her fiance.
I am really close with my dad, as he was my sole parent for awhile after my mom died. I'm close with my stepmom, too, but sometimes my dad likes to spend time with me or me & my friends or me and my husband without her. It's just father-daughter bonding stuff. It has been like that forever -- we just have "our" things that we like to do. Is this fishing trip with his friend & his daughter maybe something that they've been doing for awhile?
Likewise, as an adult, I have tried to also make sure that I have things I do just with my stepmom. I might go hiking or kayaking with my dad, because these are things we have done together since I was a kid, but I'll go clothes shopping or something with my stepmom and we'll have a girls' day out.
At any rate, I think that it's best to try and be proactive. If this trip has not passed, I would just outright ask whether you could come along. If he seems cagey about it, talk to him to figure out why. If it doesn't work out that you can go, or the trip has already occurred, why not try & set up a fishing trip with him & his daughter & her fiance another time? You like fishing, he likes fishing, who would complain about going again? I would just say "You know, I was thinking about your trip -- I'd really love to get out and go fishing again. Let's plan another fishing trip!"
posted by tastybrains at 8:28 AM on September 9, 2009
I am really close with my dad, as he was my sole parent for awhile after my mom died. I'm close with my stepmom, too, but sometimes my dad likes to spend time with me or me & my friends or me and my husband without her. It's just father-daughter bonding stuff. It has been like that forever -- we just have "our" things that we like to do. Is this fishing trip with his friend & his daughter maybe something that they've been doing for awhile?
Likewise, as an adult, I have tried to also make sure that I have things I do just with my stepmom. I might go hiking or kayaking with my dad, because these are things we have done together since I was a kid, but I'll go clothes shopping or something with my stepmom and we'll have a girls' day out.
At any rate, I think that it's best to try and be proactive. If this trip has not passed, I would just outright ask whether you could come along. If he seems cagey about it, talk to him to figure out why. If it doesn't work out that you can go, or the trip has already occurred, why not try & set up a fishing trip with him & his daughter & her fiance another time? You like fishing, he likes fishing, who would complain about going again? I would just say "You know, I was thinking about your trip -- I'd really love to get out and go fishing again. Let's plan another fishing trip!"
posted by tastybrains at 8:28 AM on September 9, 2009
Yeah, just ask why he didn't invite you, and make it clear that you'd like to be invited to the next one.
He doesn't have to invite you to every fishing trip, but he should be clear to you and honest about it. Specifically, he should be willing to tell you in advance whether he's bringing you along, and have some manner of explanation. Note that, of course, this only works if he invited you to any to begin with...
posted by Citrus at 8:33 AM on September 9, 2009
He doesn't have to invite you to every fishing trip, but he should be clear to you and honest about it. Specifically, he should be willing to tell you in advance whether he's bringing you along, and have some manner of explanation. Note that, of course, this only works if he invited you to any to begin with...
posted by Citrus at 8:33 AM on September 9, 2009
I just wanted to pop in here to vehemently disagree with Katherineg's statement that it's his responsibility to tell you he wants guy time. What we are all "responsible" for in relationships is being direct and honest with each other. The OP could have done more than hint about going, she could have asked to go. She could bring up her frustrations with him while attempting to comprehend why he didn't invite her. He has no more "obligation" to declare his intentions than she she does to ask him if she can go out for girls' night on Friday.
And let's not forget that sometimes, really, we all need to be away from the one we care about, even if just for a night or an afternoon, or a day of fishing with old friends. The concept that couples must spend every waking hour within 10 feet of each other is nauseating to me.
posted by TomMelee at 8:38 AM on September 9, 2009
And let's not forget that sometimes, really, we all need to be away from the one we care about, even if just for a night or an afternoon, or a day of fishing with old friends. The concept that couples must spend every waking hour within 10 feet of each other is nauseating to me.
posted by TomMelee at 8:38 AM on September 9, 2009
I agree with Forktine. Don't get yourself in the trap of thinking, "I am a member of X group, and therefore if my boyfriend invites other members of X group to do something with him but doesn't invite me, it must mean that he doesn't want me around." It doesn't matter whether X=women, or family members, or people who have ten toes. Sometimes, he may want to spend time with people who are not you, and you should work on being more okay with that.
posted by decathecting at 9:59 AM on September 9, 2009
posted by decathecting at 9:59 AM on September 9, 2009
I didn't mean to indicate that you said she should ask. I was referring to the specificity implied (to me, at least) in him telling her what he intended to do.
"Goin to the lake with buddies" is, to me, implicitly not inviting her, and specific enough. And you're right, her telling him that she's going is more accurate---and it's what she SHOULD be doing anyway.
But I fully agree that we should do away with the trickery and game-ness of most relationships. Be direct, positively and negatively, at all times. Honest, too.
I recently had a conversation with a friend about her relationship, and related that I am always, always honest. She told me that there are times when a man should absolutely lie. I disagreed. She parlayed a conversation with her friend where his new wife said "you're the best I've ever had!" and his response was "awesome!". Of course, she HAD to ask him "was it the best for you?" and...well, he said something about no, but they'd work on it. Then she wanted details, etc. Funny story, but in my world any lie is still a lie. Not saying anyone in this conversation lied. It's a story about being direct and open.
posted by TomMelee at 10:45 AM on September 9, 2009
"Goin to the lake with buddies" is, to me, implicitly not inviting her, and specific enough. And you're right, her telling him that she's going is more accurate---and it's what she SHOULD be doing anyway.
But I fully agree that we should do away with the trickery and game-ness of most relationships. Be direct, positively and negatively, at all times. Honest, too.
I recently had a conversation with a friend about her relationship, and related that I am always, always honest. She told me that there are times when a man should absolutely lie. I disagreed. She parlayed a conversation with her friend where his new wife said "you're the best I've ever had!" and his response was "awesome!". Of course, she HAD to ask him "was it the best for you?" and...well, he said something about no, but they'd work on it. Then she wanted details, etc. Funny story, but in my world any lie is still a lie. Not saying anyone in this conversation lied. It's a story about being direct and open.
posted by TomMelee at 10:45 AM on September 9, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by The Light Fantastic at 9:39 PM on September 8, 2009