Migraine Remedies
December 19, 2004 7:59 PM Subscribe
Anyone tried Chinese medicine for Migraines?
I am a materialist, I am not interested in mercury being in retrograde, or lead poisoning from ayurvedic medicine, but I can't keep eating tylenol three like they are f-ing red hots, it doesn't help my concentration at all! My materalism does not of course mean that I am entirely concious my own ignorance regarding 99.9999999etc% of the universe around me.
Thanks, PS, if you have any good practitioners in mind in the bay area, i'm all ears.
Anyone tried Chinese medicine for Migraines?
I am a materialist, I am not interested in mercury being in retrograde, or lead poisoning from ayurvedic medicine, but I can't keep eating tylenol three like they are f-ing red hots, it doesn't help my concentration at all! My materalism does not of course mean that I am entirely concious my own ignorance regarding 99.9999999etc% of the universe around me.
That was supposed to be"-PBF", (not pbf.) See...the concentration thing...I told you so!
I am a materialist, I am not interested in mercury being in retrograde, or lead poisoning from ayurvedic medicine, but I can't keep eating tylenol three like they are f-ing red hots, it doesn't help my concentration at all! My materalism does not of course mean that I am entirely concious my own ignorance regarding 99.9999999etc% of the universe around me.
Thanks, PS, if you have any good practitioners in mind in the bay area, i'm all ears.
Anyone tried Chinese medicine for Migraines?
I am a materialist, I am not interested in mercury being in retrograde, or lead poisoning from ayurvedic medicine, but I can't keep eating tylenol three like they are f-ing red hots, it doesn't help my concentration at all! My materalism does not of course mean that I am entirely concious my own ignorance regarding 99.9999999etc% of the universe around me.
That was supposed to be"-PBF", (not pbf.) See...the concentration thing...I told you so!
Response by poster: When you have one of those &*%$-ers all sorts of perverse thoughts come to your mind: "If only I could chop off my head...", "Maybe if I pulled the right nerve out of my spine see..." Shock therapy, though I have no idea of it's utility or advisedness for migraines, would definitely seem reasonable to me when I've got that little painful spike encrusted knot burning and throbbing in the middle of my cortex. Ack.
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 8:16 PM on December 19, 2004
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 8:16 PM on December 19, 2004
haven't used chinese medicine for migraines specifically, but like my practitioner, martin inn, who is in bernal heights.
for migraines, i use maxalt.
posted by judith at 8:31 PM on December 19, 2004
for migraines, i use maxalt.
posted by judith at 8:31 PM on December 19, 2004
floyd, drop me a line, email is in profile. I used to have satan's own migranes. My wife is quite the natural, herbal freak. Whatever it was she did, she cured me. I'll ask her as she's a wee bit asleep. It worked for me.
posted by damnitkage at 8:32 PM on December 19, 2004
posted by damnitkage at 8:32 PM on December 19, 2004
While I have no knowledge of chinese herbology, I wonder if you are suffering with rebound headaches as well...unfortunately if you are in the habit of taking pain relievers frequently, it can rebound on you and cause more headaches.
I have the occasional migraine so you do have my sympathies...
posted by konolia at 8:49 PM on December 19, 2004
I have the occasional migraine so you do have my sympathies...
posted by konolia at 8:49 PM on December 19, 2004
Konolia wins it...
PBF, it's inconceivable that you don't have at least a component of what is usually called "chronic daily headache" as a result of frequent analgesic usage, suoerimposed on top of some other headache syndrome. It can come about from something as innocuous as using routine tylenol 3 or 4 times a week, even.
why the focus on Eastern medicine vs. something more conventional?
what do they feel like, these headaches?
posted by docpops at 8:57 PM on December 19, 2004
PBF, it's inconceivable that you don't have at least a component of what is usually called "chronic daily headache" as a result of frequent analgesic usage, suoerimposed on top of some other headache syndrome. It can come about from something as innocuous as using routine tylenol 3 or 4 times a week, even.
why the focus on Eastern medicine vs. something more conventional?
what do they feel like, these headaches?
posted by docpops at 8:57 PM on December 19, 2004
Response by poster: Judith [makes me think of a great song on the Harry Smith anthology, they talk about "judith the lion"], thanks, I tried zomig, didn't work so hot for me. Imitrex seems to work better. The thing about the triptan class is that they are all patent protected and haven't gone generic yet...y'think w'might have a lot fewer prescription drug addicts if we din't give out old fashioned opiates like candy and kept the non-addictive form of meds freely availanble?
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 9:00 PM on December 19, 2004
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 9:00 PM on December 19, 2004
Response by poster: KOMOLIA: You may have a point doc pops. It's doesn't seem to make any diff. though if I am having ood times (no painkiller usage or very little for months) Or bad times: funnel, throat, bottle. I've seen a so called luminary and he call's 'em migraines though. I'm a little skeptical I have to says about the classification scheem, I'd just go with "stinky" and "really f-in bad" if I were in charge. The lines betw. tension, and migraine, and other forms seem pretty blurry to me. It just hurts like a bear. They are hemispherical and accompanied by throbbing, today and yesterday I experienced an acute sensitivity to smell which also appears to also be one of the symptoms.
DOC POPS: "Why eastern[/alternative]": The funnel+Tylenol 3: (Codeine and Barbiturates) - on occasion when it's bad - mind you. And the faint whiff of chemical dependency, makes me wish I could just do something with my life to mitigate or get rid of these things, (both my parents, as much as I hate to admit itm had terrible headaches when they were younger, and despite my purported 'materialism' they are/were both pretty new-agey at one time)
"What do they feel like": Smash your thumb with a tetanus infected flail which grows and shrinks rhythmically and has some sort of heat or pain energy constantly emanating from it. Put it that thumb sensation behing one of your eyeballs, take a cheese grater and grate of some of your neck muscles. That's a little taste of what my little demons feel like.
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 9:21 PM on December 19, 2004
DOC POPS: "Why eastern[/alternative]": The funnel+Tylenol 3: (Codeine and Barbiturates) - on occasion when it's bad - mind you. And the faint whiff of chemical dependency, makes me wish I could just do something with my life to mitigate or get rid of these things, (both my parents, as much as I hate to admit itm had terrible headaches when they were younger, and despite my purported 'materialism' they are/were both pretty new-agey at one time)
"What do they feel like": Smash your thumb with a tetanus infected flail which grows and shrinks rhythmically and has some sort of heat or pain energy constantly emanating from it. Put it that thumb sensation behing one of your eyeballs, take a cheese grater and grate of some of your neck muscles. That's a little taste of what my little demons feel like.
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 9:21 PM on December 19, 2004
Response by poster: [Then, when you feel like telling people about it, try spellchecking before you post?]
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 9:44 PM on December 19, 2004
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 9:44 PM on December 19, 2004
1. I read an article not long ago concerning a doctor in New York who developed a method of breaking migraines once they were underway. It involved a small device he'd invented that delivered intense cold, through the roof of the mouth, to a certain part of the head. According to the theory, the cold dramatically reduces inflammation in that area of the noggin and that, in turn, stops the headache. He was testing it out in an emergency room in New York where he was on staff and claimed to be getting really great results. If you're interested in this guy and his gadget and google doesn't help you, let me know and I'm sure I can dig something up. Having never tried the technique in question, I've no idea whether it's the real deal, but as long as it doesn't appear to be dangerous, I'd definitely try it. Also, in my opinion, the theory is pretty sound. Inflammation is a key element in any headache regardless of the root cause, it's entirely possible that migraines are caused by inflammation in one specific location, and cold will definitely reduce inflammation.
2. I myself suffered from "chronic daily headache" for ten years or more. (A side note: If you hurt every day and you don't have visual disturbances or nausea, it sounds more like CDH than migraine to me. However, I'm not a doctor). I eventually discovered the cause; my throat was closing off when I relaxed and/or slept. In order to keep the throat open, my neck and head muscles remained tense; this lead to inflammation. The throat-closing-off problem is fairly common; it's called sleep apnea and is often treated with a CPAP machine. My case was slightly unusual in that the source of the problem was an enlarged soft palate. A surgeon hacked it off and the headaches soon went away.
3. If you do have CDH, I'm willing to bet that part of your problem is muscle tension. It may not be the root cause, but it's probably a good place to begin your investigation. If at all humanly possible, try some sort of (informal or formal; whatever works) progressive relaxation or biofeedback. The point is simply to try to relax all of your head and neck muscles. If you can't relax them, then you have your first solid clue.
posted by Clay201 at 9:55 PM on December 19, 2004
2. I myself suffered from "chronic daily headache" for ten years or more. (A side note: If you hurt every day and you don't have visual disturbances or nausea, it sounds more like CDH than migraine to me. However, I'm not a doctor). I eventually discovered the cause; my throat was closing off when I relaxed and/or slept. In order to keep the throat open, my neck and head muscles remained tense; this lead to inflammation. The throat-closing-off problem is fairly common; it's called sleep apnea and is often treated with a CPAP machine. My case was slightly unusual in that the source of the problem was an enlarged soft palate. A surgeon hacked it off and the headaches soon went away.
3. If you do have CDH, I'm willing to bet that part of your problem is muscle tension. It may not be the root cause, but it's probably a good place to begin your investigation. If at all humanly possible, try some sort of (informal or formal; whatever works) progressive relaxation or biofeedback. The point is simply to try to relax all of your head and neck muscles. If you can't relax them, then you have your first solid clue.
posted by Clay201 at 9:55 PM on December 19, 2004
Response by poster: The specialist (UCSF, several migraine books etc) called the stress and ensuant muscle tension, a trigger. The cold thing sounds pretty neat though...
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 9:57 PM on December 19, 2004
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 9:57 PM on December 19, 2004
i was just gonna recommend this place in sf that seems good. they helped me with a cough i had and at the very least are friendly and will answer your questions. its on 18th and dolores, called Acupuncture and Chinese
Medicine Healing Clinic.
posted by alkupe at 10:49 PM on December 19, 2004
Medicine Healing Clinic.
posted by alkupe at 10:49 PM on December 19, 2004
From those symptoms, I wonder if it could be a cluster headache. Nasty little buggers, those.
posted by konolia at 11:28 PM on December 19, 2004
posted by konolia at 11:28 PM on December 19, 2004
Try some White Flower Embrocaton aka Pak Fah Yeow. You can find it in almost any Chinatown or Asian daily products store. It's a mixture of wintergreen , menthol, eucalyptus, camphor and lavender oils, and I think it's great.
Use the "traditional formula," which is aromatic enough, not the floral or fruit scented version. It's very concentrated so take care how you use it.
My favorite method: Fill a pot with very hot tap water and shake in a few drops as the water is filling the pot, so that the oils mix with the water. Take a fluffy hand towel, dunk it into the pot, squeeze it out, plop it over your entire face (eyes closed) and breathe deeply through nose and mouth. Do that a few times, it feels really good. This works particularly well for sinus headaches but helps with other types of headaches too.
You can also rub a few drops into your temples or under your nose. But, again, it's concentrated and can sting if not diluted, so be forewarned.
posted by mono blanco at 11:44 PM on December 19, 2004
Use the "traditional formula," which is aromatic enough, not the floral or fruit scented version. It's very concentrated so take care how you use it.
My favorite method: Fill a pot with very hot tap water and shake in a few drops as the water is filling the pot, so that the oils mix with the water. Take a fluffy hand towel, dunk it into the pot, squeeze it out, plop it over your entire face (eyes closed) and breathe deeply through nose and mouth. Do that a few times, it feels really good. This works particularly well for sinus headaches but helps with other types of headaches too.
You can also rub a few drops into your temples or under your nose. But, again, it's concentrated and can sting if not diluted, so be forewarned.
posted by mono blanco at 11:44 PM on December 19, 2004
Mono blanco names the aspirin of TCM. It's very common and it may work, but TCM practicioners will tell you that it will not resolve the root problem so the headaches will keep coming back. Go to a really experienced acupuncturist/TCM practioner - they will ask you lots of questions about diet, sleep, even your stools, and after diagnosing the problems they'll suggest an entire lifestyle overhaul in addition to giving you accupuncture and herbs. Expect to have to go back at least five times, and expect to pay between $40 and $200 a session. (Depends on if you go to an asian TCM practioner in Chinatown, usually the cheapest, or a fancy-pants wholistic MD in Nob Hill or something. The quality of care really does depend on the experience level more than anything else.)
Here's some study summaries of migraines/cluster headaches and acupuncture.
posted by pomegranate at 5:19 AM on December 20, 2004
Here's some study summaries of migraines/cluster headaches and acupuncture.
posted by pomegranate at 5:19 AM on December 20, 2004
Tylenol three? The kind with codeine? Do not take opioids for a headache. There are relatively new drugs called triptans which if taken early in the attack work quite well. You should see a physician.
posted by caddis at 7:17 AM on December 20, 2004
posted by caddis at 7:17 AM on December 20, 2004
I don't know anything about herbal medicine, but I've had migraines and chronic headaches since puberty, compounded by a hormone disorder and one beta-blocker a day (propranolol) cured both. It's exquisite to go a day without a headache; I had forgotten how good it felt. (And what caddis said, triptans for the migraines that getcha anyhow.)
posted by headspace at 7:27 AM on December 20, 2004
posted by headspace at 7:27 AM on December 20, 2004
Response by poster: Caddis: Ack, I've seen a physician , an expert as a matter of fact. I continue to see a physician (and I am soliciting advice for seeing a physician - an MD - with a background in Chinese Medicine). I take the T3 when the triptans don't work, which is about 40% of the time. Thank you for your concern, it is the very issue that prompts me to post. (FYI, a version of tylenol with codeine is OTC in canada and mexico, not a justification, jussayin', and I don't like taking the crap). The significant patent/economy induced barriers to the availablility of triptans - I get 9 a month under my presciption plan, vs. ~3 migraines a week - make sole reliance on them problematic.
Thank you though for your concern.
headspace: Thank you, If this chinese medicine route doesn't work I may try the preventative route again, propanolol didn't seem to work for me, but I understand there are others...
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 7:57 AM on December 20, 2004
Thank you though for your concern.
headspace: Thank you, If this chinese medicine route doesn't work I may try the preventative route again, propanolol didn't seem to work for me, but I understand there are others...
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 7:57 AM on December 20, 2004
Have you tried acupuncture? I've heard (mostly second- and third-hand accounts) of that working very well for headache sufferers.
I know only too well the perverse thoughts; it's really an odd experience (especially as a very much not-otherwise-suicidal person) to find yourself contemplating how good it would feel to release the pressure in your head with a shotgun blast.
posted by willpie at 8:27 AM on December 20, 2004
I know only too well the perverse thoughts; it's really an odd experience (especially as a very much not-otherwise-suicidal person) to find yourself contemplating how good it would feel to release the pressure in your head with a shotgun blast.
posted by willpie at 8:27 AM on December 20, 2004
prettyboyfloyd: I know what you mean about 'perverse thoughts' during migraines, my mid-migraine fantasies often involve the thought of shoving an icepick into my left eyesocket... not to kill myself, though, but from feeling that it would somehow help (in the same way that clenching your jaw can sometimes help a toothache... replacing one kind of pain with another). I was told once that such thoughts tend to arise and even be helpful (so long as you don't do them) because they involve visualizing situations where you're in control of the pain rather than vice versa.
As for the muscle tension, many hardcore migraines (those with visual symptoms and so on, not just 'powerful headaches') are related to muscle tension but not in the way you'd think -- it's more like a lack of tensions. Blood vessels, which are 'smooth muscle tissue', expanding, press on parts of the brain and cause trouble. The most popular prescription migraine medications (Imitrex, Amerge and related triptan drugs) cause blood vessels to constrict and so reduce pressure in the brain.
I know your question is about non-Western migraine solutions, but you only mention Tylenol-3 in your post. Other drugs that attempt to solve the migraine rather than mask the pain may prove more effective for you (they work for me about 35% of the time). Of course, IANAD.
posted by onshi at 10:07 AM on December 20, 2004
As for the muscle tension, many hardcore migraines (those with visual symptoms and so on, not just 'powerful headaches') are related to muscle tension but not in the way you'd think -- it's more like a lack of tensions. Blood vessels, which are 'smooth muscle tissue', expanding, press on parts of the brain and cause trouble. The most popular prescription migraine medications (Imitrex, Amerge and related triptan drugs) cause blood vessels to constrict and so reduce pressure in the brain.
I know your question is about non-Western migraine solutions, but you only mention Tylenol-3 in your post. Other drugs that attempt to solve the migraine rather than mask the pain may prove more effective for you (they work for me about 35% of the time). Of course, IANAD.
posted by onshi at 10:07 AM on December 20, 2004
My father used to get migraines 2 or 3 times a week. Acupuncture has stopped the headaches really effectively. He has to go back every 8 months or so (at least, that's how often he needs it), but it's helped him to function without painkillers. I'm going to try it myself.
posted by doubtful_guest at 10:14 AM on December 20, 2004
posted by doubtful_guest at 10:14 AM on December 20, 2004
If you find you're getting the migraine consistently over a few days, try switching the medication to Advil or another non-ASA based medicine (Advil is ibuprofen). I have found, myself, when I get headaches that won't go away, the problem goes from the original headache, to a headache caused by the medication. Switching to another medication causes the problem to disappear, and the next morning I am fine.
Just an idea...
posted by shepd at 10:18 AM on December 20, 2004
Just an idea...
posted by shepd at 10:18 AM on December 20, 2004
Another option is biofeedback, if the underlying cause is (controllable) tension. The San Francisco Headache Clinic has a page on their biofeedback therapy.
posted by WestCoaster at 10:37 AM on December 20, 2004
posted by WestCoaster at 10:37 AM on December 20, 2004
I hear ya prettyboyfloyd. The triptans don't always work and they cost something like $45 per pill so insurance is a must. Make sure your physician specifies how many pills are to be dispensed per month on the scrip. This usually gets them all paid for by insurance. You have probably already tried giving up the common triggers such as alcohol and caffeine, but if not it can really help. Best of luck with the alternative remedies.
posted by caddis at 11:33 AM on December 20, 2004
posted by caddis at 11:33 AM on December 20, 2004
Response by poster: Thanks again everyone, for all of your advice. Happy holidays (or chinese food and movies or whatever.
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 10:05 AM on December 21, 2004
posted by prettyboyfloyd at 10:05 AM on December 21, 2004
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by RikiTikiTavi at 8:10 PM on December 19, 2004