Loud exhausts and motorcycles
December 16, 2004 7:58 AM Subscribe
Why are motorcycles with EXTREMELY loud exhausts allowed to be built and used in this country (US)? I'm talking about those Harley types that can be heard for a mile, and are so loud that they literally hurt your ears. I can be in my house with the windows closed and when one goes by, I can't hear anything but the noise of the exhaust. And forget about driving and having one next to you -- it's simply deafening.
Aren't there any noise laws to prevent this??
Aren't there any noise laws to prevent this??
Safer in the "not getting hit" sense, perhaps, but not in the "doing damage to one's hearing" sense.
posted by rushmc at 8:08 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by rushmc at 8:08 AM on December 16, 2004
There are noise laws in most areas, but the police often choose not to enforce them. In some cases it's the same laws that would govern, say, a car without a muffler or an obscenely loud stereo system. In the vast majority of areas the police simply have more important things to do than pull people over for being loud.
The bikes don't come from a dealership sounding like that. It's the result of the rider customizing it with aftermarket parts designed to increase the noise level.
The American Motorcycle Association doesn't like the loud bikes, either.
posted by Kellydamnit at 8:09 AM on December 16, 2004
The bikes don't come from a dealership sounding like that. It's the result of the rider customizing it with aftermarket parts designed to increase the noise level.
The American Motorcycle Association doesn't like the loud bikes, either.
posted by Kellydamnit at 8:09 AM on December 16, 2004
anastasiav,
Your friends "loud bikes are safer bikes" is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. If you want to be safe, don't ride a motorcycle. It's all about image and power. The louder the bike, the bigger your ego.
posted by batboy at 8:12 AM on December 16, 2004
Your friends "loud bikes are safer bikes" is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. If you want to be safe, don't ride a motorcycle. It's all about image and power. The louder the bike, the bigger your ego.
posted by batboy at 8:12 AM on December 16, 2004
For every ten decibels, one inch is added to the rider's penis.
posted by xmutex at 8:17 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by xmutex at 8:17 AM on December 16, 2004
They can get a ticket, but that's not going to stop them. Same thing as someone with a sports car who speeds all the time.
posted by smackfu at 8:19 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by smackfu at 8:19 AM on December 16, 2004
It drives me crazy. I'm above a major intersection in Toronto, and sometimes I feel like throwing down spike strips. Nothing bothers me more, not even the garbage trucks. I've asked the traffic cops, and they sort of looked at me as if I was one of the nuts they were warned about in training. They don't do anything except if the bike has been illegally modified.
posted by loquax at 8:21 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by loquax at 8:21 AM on December 16, 2004
My next-door neighbor has one of these aggravating thunder machines. He brings it out in warm weather and tinkers with it endlessly - "Bram-bap-bap-bap!" ad nauseum. Really freakin' nice when you're trying to put a baby down for a nap. I guess there's one saving grace in the arrival of Winter - the Harley's in the garage.
posted by kokogiak at 8:27 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by kokogiak at 8:27 AM on December 16, 2004
I wish there were laws to prevent it...and that they included ATVs, dirtbikes, and snowmobiles.
posted by driveler at 8:31 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by driveler at 8:31 AM on December 16, 2004
Can't see it happening any time soon (enforcement--there are already laws). It's institutionalized stupidity.
posted by ParisParamus at 8:39 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by ParisParamus at 8:39 AM on December 16, 2004
Well, it usually only happens in the mornin', and you supposed to be up cookin breakfast by then, so it's like an alarm clock. Woo WOOO! [.wmv]
posted by robbie01 at 8:49 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by robbie01 at 8:49 AM on December 16, 2004
When I was in college, the girl in the next apartment had a boyfriend for awhile who had a bike like this. Every time he would leave, he would rev the engine until the nearest car alarm went off from the vibration. Then he would tear off down the street, setting off every motion-sensitive car alarm in the vicinity. /StoryFilter
posted by Mark Doner at 8:53 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by Mark Doner at 8:53 AM on December 16, 2004
Ahem. This comment will probably have me in the clink by the end of the day. I preface it by saying that my cousin is a cop, so I have nothing against them overall.
BUT, the two major offenders of loud bikes that I have experienced have been cops. When we lived in Vermont, the guy that lived above us was a trooper and had one of those Yamaha-type zippy things. It was annoying in that high-pitched kind of way.
Our current living space has us surrounded below and to the right with a cop and a public safety officer (who might be a cop too, but I'm not sure). The guy below does the "Bram-bap-bap-bap!" thing all the time in warmer weather too (which sucks because we live on the second floor and have the attic and all the exhaust goes up there), and occassionally, a whole mess of them will show up and congregate with their bikes and it is not unlike a white supremacist rally because they all have shaved heads (and goatees) and it's kind of creepy.
But, they are generally nice otherwise and we have full use of the whole driveway area and they're otherwise pretty quiet and they're always patrolling around the houses, so I can be pretty assured of safety.
Don't get me wrong. I like the thrill of a revving motor, but that REALLY loud, inconsistent BAP BAP BAP is painful and annoying.
posted by stefnet at 9:04 AM on December 16, 2004
BUT, the two major offenders of loud bikes that I have experienced have been cops. When we lived in Vermont, the guy that lived above us was a trooper and had one of those Yamaha-type zippy things. It was annoying in that high-pitched kind of way.
Our current living space has us surrounded below and to the right with a cop and a public safety officer (who might be a cop too, but I'm not sure). The guy below does the "Bram-bap-bap-bap!" thing all the time in warmer weather too (which sucks because we live on the second floor and have the attic and all the exhaust goes up there), and occassionally, a whole mess of them will show up and congregate with their bikes and it is not unlike a white supremacist rally because they all have shaved heads (and goatees) and it's kind of creepy.
But, they are generally nice otherwise and we have full use of the whole driveway area and they're otherwise pretty quiet and they're always patrolling around the houses, so I can be pretty assured of safety.
Don't get me wrong. I like the thrill of a revving motor, but that REALLY loud, inconsistent BAP BAP BAP is painful and annoying.
posted by stefnet at 9:04 AM on December 16, 2004
Having one of the aforesaid straigt-piped Harleys, I appreciate most of the above comments. Clowns who "screw it on" all the time in residential areas are assholes, admitted. On the other hand, until you've had some rush hour clown in a station wagon slide on over into your lane and almost grind you into the median chain link fence without ever looking over, you can't appreciate the at least seeming advisability of making yourself more noticeable, auditorially speaking. Fact is, people claim "I just didn't see him" all the time, and not just in oncoming accidents - same direction lane changes kill/maim a lot of motorcyclists. On the other hand, I've been intentionally run off the road by fuckwads - both teenage & over 50 - three times, and in Arizona had to pull a pistol on a dumbshit in a corvette who wanted to play cat and mouse games on the interstate to keep him from killing me or my friends. Is that a reason to quit riding, batboy? I don't think so, nor does anyone else on 2 wheels when confronted by the arrogance of those in cages.
posted by Pressed Rat at 9:07 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by Pressed Rat at 9:07 AM on December 16, 2004
and in Arizona had to pull a pistol on a dumbshit in a corvette who wanted to play cat and mouse games on the interstate to keep him from killing me or my friends.
I dunno about the USA, but in Canada before it gets to that point, the smart guy either pulls over and phones the police (or, if without phone, just pulls over for 10 minutes and waits for the insane guy to drive away), or takes the next exit whether they planned to or not.
Just sayin', ya know...
As far as being loud goes, I find it distracting. Anything that loud (jackhammers, street work, etc) means my attention stops being on the road and starts focusing on the sound. It's human nature, and that does not make things safe.
posted by shepd at 9:27 AM on December 16, 2004
I dunno about the USA, but in Canada before it gets to that point, the smart guy either pulls over and phones the police (or, if without phone, just pulls over for 10 minutes and waits for the insane guy to drive away), or takes the next exit whether they planned to or not.
Just sayin', ya know...
As far as being loud goes, I find it distracting. Anything that loud (jackhammers, street work, etc) means my attention stops being on the road and starts focusing on the sound. It's human nature, and that does not make things safe.
posted by shepd at 9:27 AM on December 16, 2004
OK, here's another motorcyclist's opinion. Bikers who run straight pipes or other overly loud exhausts are simply inconsiderate assholes, and by arousing the justified anger of the public make life worse for themselves and all other bikers. Like Blanche DuBois, motorcyclists 'live by the kindness of strangers,' and we need all the friends we can get.
Here's the really sad thing. You can't buy a bike new with ear-splitting exhausts. You have to pay to modify it to be obnoxious And as the sound mostly travels to the rear of the bike, and bike accidents overwhelmingly occur at the front, these dickwads are really no safer than when their bike was stock.
While PR's observation that we motorcyclists are in constant danger from cars is correct, and the "I just never saw him" phenomenon is quite real, the answer is not to make yourself a public nuisance. The only solution beyond wearing bright, visible clothing is to Pay Attention All the Time. Well, a good horn and nimble bike handling skills are helpful as well.
posted by mojohand at 9:31 AM on December 16, 2004 [1 favorite]
Here's the really sad thing. You can't buy a bike new with ear-splitting exhausts. You have to pay to modify it to be obnoxious And as the sound mostly travels to the rear of the bike, and bike accidents overwhelmingly occur at the front, these dickwads are really no safer than when their bike was stock.
While PR's observation that we motorcyclists are in constant danger from cars is correct, and the "I just never saw him" phenomenon is quite real, the answer is not to make yourself a public nuisance. The only solution beyond wearing bright, visible clothing is to Pay Attention All the Time. Well, a good horn and nimble bike handling skills are helpful as well.
posted by mojohand at 9:31 AM on December 16, 2004 [1 favorite]
I ride (well rode... damn thieves) a bike with an engine quieter than most sewing machines. And I HATE bikes with straight pipes. I've noticed time and time again, if there is some asshole with a loud as hell bike riding on the same street or freeway riding is a lot less safe. It pisses off drivers who suddenly are more likely to try to edge you out when you want to merge, or "accidentally" cut you off when you are lanesplitting (legal and safe in this state, I don't want to hear it.)
Loud pipes are not a safety thing, they are a penis thing.
posted by aspo at 9:31 AM on December 16, 2004
Loud pipes are not a safety thing, they are a penis thing.
posted by aspo at 9:31 AM on December 16, 2004
Response by poster: The thing that gets me is that there is loud, and then there is LOUD. When the bike is that LOUD, it is nothing more than an obnoxious effort to make other people's lives miserable. When I hear one of those bikes, I immediately am put into a bad mood, and the first impulse is to simply run the asshole over.
It really is no different than me strapping on to my car a stereo capable of concert level noise, putting in a soundtrack of deathmetal, cranking it up, and then driving through neighborhoods at will, disturbing EVERYONE else around me.
Those of you who have your bikes like that.. I know you justify it to yourself, and your likeminded buddies probably pat you on the back, but to the rest of the people around you, you are a dick. Period.
posted by eas98 at 9:32 AM on December 16, 2004
It really is no different than me strapping on to my car a stereo capable of concert level noise, putting in a soundtrack of deathmetal, cranking it up, and then driving through neighborhoods at will, disturbing EVERYONE else around me.
Those of you who have your bikes like that.. I know you justify it to yourself, and your likeminded buddies probably pat you on the back, but to the rest of the people around you, you are a dick. Period.
posted by eas98 at 9:32 AM on December 16, 2004
in Canada...
We don't have smart people in the USA.
posted by goethean at 9:32 AM on December 16, 2004
We don't have smart people in the USA.
posted by goethean at 9:32 AM on December 16, 2004
Let's face it, if the issue was safety or being noticed on the highway, the solution would be wearing day-glo colors or attaching bright lights to the motorcycle. (beaten my mojo on this point)
But those solutions are lacking in the whole machismo thing, whereas making lots of noise is not. So I don't think it should come as any big shock that 'macho' people on the road want to play games with you, Pressed Rat.
Not that I'm condoning those games or anything.
posted by Mark Doner at 9:33 AM on December 16, 2004
But those solutions are lacking in the whole machismo thing, whereas making lots of noise is not. So I don't think it should come as any big shock that 'macho' people on the road want to play games with you, Pressed Rat.
Not that I'm condoning those games or anything.
posted by Mark Doner at 9:33 AM on December 16, 2004
There's not much you can do unless you find a cop willing to ticket the offender. Just know that most motorcyclists find it as annoying as everyone else. I ride, and I cringe when I hear someone rapping their pipes, because I know it will only piss off more people.
There are lots of responsible riders that still have fun while not annoying or endangering others - you just never hear (about) them.
posted by letitrain at 9:35 AM on December 16, 2004
There are lots of responsible riders that still have fun while not annoying or endangering others - you just never hear (about) them.
posted by letitrain at 9:35 AM on December 16, 2004
Whoops, I realized I never really answered the question. But BatBoy and Xmutex did.
posted by mojohand at 9:37 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by mojohand at 9:37 AM on December 16, 2004
"Loud pipes save lives," as I recall is a fallacious argument. Going back through some old rants on rec.motorcycles, I found a number of rants and counter-rants re: Doppler Effect on pipes. This was one of the more sensible posts.
As an experienced rider, I can tell you that loud pipes, from my experience, serve only to annoy people, however cool you think they sound. It is true that higher-performance pipes tend to be louder, but the volume is a by-product of the performance.
There are lots of responsible riders that still have fun while not annoying or endangering others - you just never hear (about) them.
This is quite true. Loud pipes, squids doing wheelies up busy roads in Tevas and Tank-Tops make us all look bad.
posted by TeamBilly at 9:47 AM on December 16, 2004
As an experienced rider, I can tell you that loud pipes, from my experience, serve only to annoy people, however cool you think they sound. It is true that higher-performance pipes tend to be louder, but the volume is a by-product of the performance.
There are lots of responsible riders that still have fun while not annoying or endangering others - you just never hear (about) them.
This is quite true. Loud pipes, squids doing wheelies up busy roads in Tevas and Tank-Tops make us all look bad.
posted by TeamBilly at 9:47 AM on December 16, 2004
letitrain said it best. It is unfortunate that motorcyclists in general get associated with the actions of a few.
Bikes built in the factory are required to meet noise regulations, but many riders modify their pipes. Those that do are likely after the power gains; less baffling (more noise) = more airflow = more power.
That being said, sound is still part of the equation. After market manufacturers (even the OEMs) "tune" their exhausts to sound good.
Personally, I enjoy a good exhaust note, but you don't have to be loud to sound good, and many manufacturers offer products that do exactly that.
Some riders just choose to be loud, and that is unfortunate for everyone, riders and non-riders alike.
posted by mauriteb at 9:57 AM on December 16, 2004
Bikes built in the factory are required to meet noise regulations, but many riders modify their pipes. Those that do are likely after the power gains; less baffling (more noise) = more airflow = more power.
That being said, sound is still part of the equation. After market manufacturers (even the OEMs) "tune" their exhausts to sound good.
Personally, I enjoy a good exhaust note, but you don't have to be loud to sound good, and many manufacturers offer products that do exactly that.
Some riders just choose to be loud, and that is unfortunate for everyone, riders and non-riders alike.
posted by mauriteb at 9:57 AM on December 16, 2004
Shepd - don't disagree with your general comment except it's just that, a generality. At the time I was with several other bikers who had wives/GFs on the back of thier bikes, miles from the next exit, minding our own business when the corvette came screaming at us from behind, almost ran me down before I could get over to let him pass, then pulled into the right lane and intentiaonally slowed down to a crawl. When two of us pulled into the left lane to pass he waited until we were almost even with him to then swerve into the left lane. When we backed off, he proceeded to continue the game. After using his car in a very aggressive, threatening manner, with ZERO provocation, repeatedly, it was time for it to stop. Crazies abound in desolate places & who knew if he wouldn't pull over if we did and jump out with a gun? Open carry is/was legal in AZ at the time (1976) & I did. While your suggestion is undoubtedly prudent, wait until vehicular manslaughter is attempted on you before judging.
Also, Mark Doner, at least in my case the "machismo thing - macho people on the road" argument is bullshit - the ONLY times I 've had dickheads fuck with me WAS when I was on bikes running stock exhaust. So it damn sure wasn't the pipes that provoked.
posted by Pressed Rat at 9:59 AM on December 16, 2004
Also, Mark Doner, at least in my case the "machismo thing - macho people on the road" argument is bullshit - the ONLY times I 've had dickheads fuck with me WAS when I was on bikes running stock exhaust. So it damn sure wasn't the pipes that provoked.
posted by Pressed Rat at 9:59 AM on December 16, 2004
PointlessTriviaFilter: Open carry is still legal in Arizona, and there are currently some laws being worked on that will reduce the penalty for concealment without a license to a misdemeanor.
I've got a funny story about being pulled over at 4am in Phoenix with a trunkload of ammunition and assorted assault rifles. But that's for another time ;)
posted by icey at 10:15 AM on December 16, 2004
I've got a funny story about being pulled over at 4am in Phoenix with a trunkload of ammunition and assorted assault rifles. But that's for another time ;)
posted by icey at 10:15 AM on December 16, 2004
icey - please make sure you don't take too long ;-)
posted by Pressed Rat at 10:20 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by Pressed Rat at 10:20 AM on December 16, 2004
The bikes don't come from a dealership sounding like that. It's the result of the rider customizing it with aftermarket parts designed to increase the noise level.
Can't see it happening any time soon (enforcement--there are already laws). It's institutionalized stupidity.
Here's the really sad thing. You can't buy a bike new with ear-splitting exhausts. You have to pay to modify it to be obnoxious
Has anybody here heard a stock Harley? They aren't the loudest things on the road, but they are way louder than any car and can definitely be heard from a ways away. So, at the risk of interrupting story time, can anyone answer the original question and explain why stock Harleys (and copycats from Honda, etc.) are allowed to be built so loud?
posted by rorycberger at 10:32 AM on December 16, 2004
Can't see it happening any time soon (enforcement--there are already laws). It's institutionalized stupidity.
Here's the really sad thing. You can't buy a bike new with ear-splitting exhausts. You have to pay to modify it to be obnoxious
Has anybody here heard a stock Harley? They aren't the loudest things on the road, but they are way louder than any car and can definitely be heard from a ways away. So, at the risk of interrupting story time, can anyone answer the original question and explain why stock Harleys (and copycats from Honda, etc.) are allowed to be built so loud?
posted by rorycberger at 10:32 AM on December 16, 2004
I think the main idea is Loud and Proud.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 10:34 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 10:34 AM on December 16, 2004
And make no mistake, strapping a V Twin between your legs will give you a hard on for three days.
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 10:36 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by Mean Mr. Bucket at 10:36 AM on December 16, 2004
I doubt somebody wearing bright colors, riding a touring bike at the speed limit in the right lane, will have any punks trying to run them off the road.
posted by Mark Doner at 10:39 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by Mark Doner at 10:39 AM on December 16, 2004
Is that a reason to quit riding, batboy? I don't think so, nor does anyone else on 2 wheels when confronted by the arrogance of those in cages.
I'd say so. While as a cyclist I agree with you that people driving cars just don't pay attention and/or care, why risk your life because of assholes? That's why I no longer ride my bike on the roads; too dangerous because of assholes.
However my main point was that the notion that most bikes are modified for 'safety reasons' is just plain stupid. I think that xmutex had it right: it's all about penis size.
posted by batboy at 10:49 AM on December 16, 2004
I'd say so. While as a cyclist I agree with you that people driving cars just don't pay attention and/or care, why risk your life because of assholes? That's why I no longer ride my bike on the roads; too dangerous because of assholes.
However my main point was that the notion that most bikes are modified for 'safety reasons' is just plain stupid. I think that xmutex had it right: it's all about penis size.
posted by batboy at 10:49 AM on December 16, 2004
Try driving a large firetruck with flashing lights, screaming sirens and bellowing airhorns and you'll see the foolishness of believing loud == safe. Modern cars are like little isolation chambers full of music, video and phone calls. xmutex has it right.
posted by tommasz at 11:18 AM on December 16, 2004
posted by tommasz at 11:18 AM on December 16, 2004
Well batboy, since getting married, having kids and a mortgage, I haven't been riding in well over 10 years - can't say I've noticed a change in my penis one way or the other, before or since - everyone's free to engage in their own relative risk assessments & act accordingly.
Mark Doner - respectfully, you don't know what the hell you're talking about - and WTF does riding a "touring Biike" have to do with it?
posted by Pressed Rat at 11:19 AM on December 16, 2004
Mark Doner - respectfully, you don't know what the hell you're talking about - and WTF does riding a "touring Biike" have to do with it?
posted by Pressed Rat at 11:19 AM on December 16, 2004
Pressed: Either you or someone else instigated it. Could've been someone else. Someone once told me that "all bikes look the same". Get the heck over it, it's like 30 years ago.
As far as loud pipes go, yeah, pretty much everything that's been said. The only thing that loud pipes do is get you noticed by pedestrians and people who are not in two-ton soundproof metal cocoons. If Harley riders really wanted cars to notice them and to improve their safety, they'd all wear high-visiblity riding gear and would mount headlight and tail-light modulators, driving lights, and helmets. You wouldn't see a rider with straight pipes caught DEAD in a high-vis 'stitch. ;) Therefore, I call bullshit on the idea of 'loud pipes are a safety feature' ... it's just a justification. Cruisers are about looking cool, not about riding (although there are some people that do serious distance on them, and I ride with a few ... and more power to them. I sure couldn't. Cruisers are PAINFUL ... all of that bouncing that your shocks don't absorb goes straight up your tailbone and into your spine... ) .... the worst part is that, safety-wise, cruisers and (even worse) choppers, are some of the least safe bikes because they can't turn as hard or maneuver as quickly, thanks to the extreme rake of the front forks, than any other type of bike.
Digression. Anyway.
I'll also echo all the other riders in here: bikes are invisble to most drivers. I, however, like it that way: it's easier for me to maneuver around them if they simply go on doing what they're doing and don't do anything out of startlement. Loud pipes are actually harmful, IMHO, because they can startle drivers and cause them to jerk to one side or otherwise do something that would drastically shorten a biker's life.
posted by SpecialK at 11:47 AM on December 16, 2004
As far as loud pipes go, yeah, pretty much everything that's been said. The only thing that loud pipes do is get you noticed by pedestrians and people who are not in two-ton soundproof metal cocoons. If Harley riders really wanted cars to notice them and to improve their safety, they'd all wear high-visiblity riding gear and would mount headlight and tail-light modulators, driving lights, and helmets. You wouldn't see a rider with straight pipes caught DEAD in a high-vis 'stitch. ;) Therefore, I call bullshit on the idea of 'loud pipes are a safety feature' ... it's just a justification. Cruisers are about looking cool, not about riding (although there are some people that do serious distance on them, and I ride with a few ... and more power to them. I sure couldn't. Cruisers are PAINFUL ... all of that bouncing that your shocks don't absorb goes straight up your tailbone and into your spine... ) .... the worst part is that, safety-wise, cruisers and (even worse) choppers, are some of the least safe bikes because they can't turn as hard or maneuver as quickly, thanks to the extreme rake of the front forks, than any other type of bike.
Digression. Anyway.
I'll also echo all the other riders in here: bikes are invisble to most drivers. I, however, like it that way: it's easier for me to maneuver around them if they simply go on doing what they're doing and don't do anything out of startlement. Loud pipes are actually harmful, IMHO, because they can startle drivers and cause them to jerk to one side or otherwise do something that would drastically shorten a biker's life.
posted by SpecialK at 11:47 AM on December 16, 2004
I HATE HATE HATE these people (and rorycberger, while stock Harleys are hardly quiet, these bikes are far louder). The modified sport bikes the silly kids zoom around on aren't nearly as loud (though potentially more likely to run you over).
The most annoying of this ilk in Boston are the ones who endlessly cruise up and down Newbury St (a narrow, congested stretch of high-end stores and restaurants), though it got a bit better once the Harley shop went out of business. They all try and dress one more Marlon Brando than the other, but judging from the bikes (gorgeous frankly, and obviously custom), they're frustrated investment bankers with too much money and a belief that startling old ladies and making babies cry is how one attracts women.
And to stay reasonably on-topic, they are illegal, and the police will sometimes issue a noise ticket, but generally only if they've done something else stupid to attract the cop's ire.
posted by jalexei at 12:15 PM on December 16, 2004
The most annoying of this ilk in Boston are the ones who endlessly cruise up and down Newbury St (a narrow, congested stretch of high-end stores and restaurants), though it got a bit better once the Harley shop went out of business. They all try and dress one more Marlon Brando than the other, but judging from the bikes (gorgeous frankly, and obviously custom), they're frustrated investment bankers with too much money and a belief that startling old ladies and making babies cry is how one attracts women.
And to stay reasonably on-topic, they are illegal, and the police will sometimes issue a noise ticket, but generally only if they've done something else stupid to attract the cop's ire.
posted by jalexei at 12:15 PM on December 16, 2004
Aren't the new Harley's built with water-coolers that significantly reduce the sound level?
posted by achmorrison at 12:51 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by achmorrison at 12:51 PM on December 16, 2004
can anyone answer the original question and explain why stock Harleys (and copycats from Honda, etc.) are allowed to be built so loud?
I'm not sure how the DOT arrives at decibel limits or if they specifically allow higher limits for motorcycles. It would be interesting to know. Honda, Harley and the like make cruisers loud -- as legally possible -- because that's how ppl want them. In the US, bikes are mostly a form of recreation. Part of the reason folks are attracted to cruisers is because they like the sound.
posted by mauriteb at 12:52 PM on December 16, 2004
I'm not sure how the DOT arrives at decibel limits or if they specifically allow higher limits for motorcycles. It would be interesting to know. Honda, Harley and the like make cruisers loud -- as legally possible -- because that's how ppl want them. In the US, bikes are mostly a form of recreation. Part of the reason folks are attracted to cruisers is because they like the sound.
posted by mauriteb at 12:52 PM on December 16, 2004
but to the rest of the people around you, you are a dick...
I HATE HATE HATE these people...
etc.
Don't you get it, Pressed Rat? This is the effect you are having on people you share the road with. You are angering them. Do you want to ride what amounts to an engine and a couple of wheels with no other real protection surrounded by a bunch of angry people with tons of steel protecting them?
My guess is, you probably don't care. We're all just trapped in our "cages," us "steel coffin stiffs" who'll never know the pleasure of true freedom, that bad-ass renegade lifestyle, going against society and their fucking rules.
I've always felt that if you wish to remain in a society, you will either abide by its rules, or be beaten into acquiescence. This goes for line-cutters, cell-phone users in theaters, and jerks who need to prove to the world how independent-minded they are by deliberately pissing off the rest of us.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:02 PM on December 16, 2004
I HATE HATE HATE these people...
etc.
Don't you get it, Pressed Rat? This is the effect you are having on people you share the road with. You are angering them. Do you want to ride what amounts to an engine and a couple of wheels with no other real protection surrounded by a bunch of angry people with tons of steel protecting them?
My guess is, you probably don't care. We're all just trapped in our "cages," us "steel coffin stiffs" who'll never know the pleasure of true freedom, that bad-ass renegade lifestyle, going against society and their fucking rules.
I've always felt that if you wish to remain in a society, you will either abide by its rules, or be beaten into acquiescence. This goes for line-cutters, cell-phone users in theaters, and jerks who need to prove to the world how independent-minded they are by deliberately pissing off the rest of us.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:02 PM on December 16, 2004
And yes, I get the irony of posting that with my nickname. The point is that there are good and bad ways of fighting against the poor aspects of society, and straight pipes are most certainly the latter.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:04 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:04 PM on December 16, 2004
In the days before bikers were hip, loud pipes were just another way to piss off civilians, along with Nazi emblems and obscene/offensive tattoos. An old biker friend of mine misses the days when people would lock their doors when he pulled up beside them. Regardless of any arguments about safety or improved performance (not really mentioned here, but another reason for modifying stock intake and exhaust systems), all the old school bikers out there would be thrilled to know so many people still get upset about loud pipes--FTW.
posted by TedW at 1:38 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by TedW at 1:38 PM on December 16, 2004
Don't you get it, Pressed Rat? This is the effect you are having on people you share the road with. You are angering them.
Just to clarify a bit - while I feel anyone who puts on aftermarket pipes could arguably be considered, well, inconsiderate, I've got less of an issue with people out on the highway than those who cruise through residential or crowded urban areas and purposely make a lot of noise. I don't claim to know which camp Pressed_Rat may fall into.
There's a guy that lives near me who rides a very loud Harley, but whenever he cruises through our neighborhood, he short-shifts and keeps the noise down. This past summer I'd silently thank him if I happened to be out with my infant daughter when he passed. And apologies for helping to turn this AskMefi thread into cycle-screed -
posted by jalexei at 1:51 PM on December 16, 2004 [1 favorite]
Just to clarify a bit - while I feel anyone who puts on aftermarket pipes could arguably be considered, well, inconsiderate, I've got less of an issue with people out on the highway than those who cruise through residential or crowded urban areas and purposely make a lot of noise. I don't claim to know which camp Pressed_Rat may fall into.
There's a guy that lives near me who rides a very loud Harley, but whenever he cruises through our neighborhood, he short-shifts and keeps the noise down. This past summer I'd silently thank him if I happened to be out with my infant daughter when he passed. And apologies for helping to turn this AskMefi thread into cycle-screed -
posted by jalexei at 1:51 PM on December 16, 2004 [1 favorite]
Loud pipes DO NOT mean safer bikes. Loud pipes just piss off everyone, which is just how the biker wants it, he wants everyone to look at him on his overpriced sled.
I'm a biker and I hate loud pipes on my bikes. I want my bike to be efficient and sound cool (read that, not a deafening middle finger inducing jet plane roar).
I've even heard of Harley's with switches on their exhausts so they can quiet them down if they see FiveOh.
Pressed Rat, get a 100 watt high beam, it'll work waaaay better than louder pipes. And use your high beam during the day.
batboy, I love my motorcycles and would ride even if I didn't commute. But I do commute on my bike and save somewhere on the order of three plus hours a week by not driving.
Jalexei, don't confuse "aftermarket" with "intentionally manufactured to produce absolutely as much noise as possible". Many aftermarket cans aren't about noise as much as allowing the engine to breath easier, dropping weight from the stock cans and maybe giving the bike a little more personality in changing its voice some (note that that doesn't necessarily mean louder, it just means different).
posted by fenriq at 2:19 PM on December 16, 2004
I'm a biker and I hate loud pipes on my bikes. I want my bike to be efficient and sound cool (read that, not a deafening middle finger inducing jet plane roar).
I've even heard of Harley's with switches on their exhausts so they can quiet them down if they see FiveOh.
Pressed Rat, get a 100 watt high beam, it'll work waaaay better than louder pipes. And use your high beam during the day.
batboy, I love my motorcycles and would ride even if I didn't commute. But I do commute on my bike and save somewhere on the order of three plus hours a week by not driving.
Jalexei, don't confuse "aftermarket" with "intentionally manufactured to produce absolutely as much noise as possible". Many aftermarket cans aren't about noise as much as allowing the engine to breath easier, dropping weight from the stock cans and maybe giving the bike a little more personality in changing its voice some (note that that doesn't necessarily mean louder, it just means different).
posted by fenriq at 2:19 PM on December 16, 2004
Most sound level laws are pretty liberal. New cars have quiet exhuast because that's what the market wants but it's quite legal to clamp a set of flowmaster 40s onto just about any mill and cranker up. The bikers rattling your windows are probably illegal but just loud probably isn't. Most place you're allowed 80-95db (which I realise is a large range).
posted by Mitheral at 2:50 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by Mitheral at 2:50 PM on December 16, 2004
My guess is, you probably don't care. We're all just trapped in our "cages," us "steel coffin stiffs" who'll never know the pleasure of true freedom, that bad-ass renegade lifestyle, going against society and their fucking rules.
I hope to God you're saying that with tongue planted firmly in cheek.
posted by TeamBilly at 3:18 PM on December 16, 2004
While you're all racing to pile on, you might pause long enough to actually read and think about my earlier posts. FWIW:
1) Despite the fact that I still own the bike I mentioned, it's sat in the garage for most of my marriage without being ridden and not at all for the last 14 years. So, at worst, I'm a reformed offender.
2) Unlike what seem to be the presumptions here, I didn't race home after puchasing it to tear off the stock pipes and put on straights just so I could (a) piss off the citizens, (b) grow my dick, or (c) compensate for feelings of inadequacy. I built this particular bike from the ground up, myself - the straights were put on for performance. Those were younger days - if & when I put it back on the road, I'm sure I'll run muffled pipes, as much for consideration of others as myself.
3) I speak from my own personal riding experience of 20+ years before putting the bike in mothballs that I thought might be worth sharing - I terrorized no one - putted through residential areas, and only opened it up when in the country. However, people who fuck with 2-wheelers (or anyone else for that matter) because they think they're an easy mark for working out their twisted aggressions don't deserve sympathy.
4) I always rode with the headlight on, did not split lanes, gave cars the right of way & drove defensively. If I didn't wear dayglow clothes with a 100,000 candlepower red beacon revolving on my helmet it's because I wore what I could afford and the suggestion is otherwise just plain stupid.
You guess wrong, Civil_Disobedient, but I'm quite sure you don't care. Not a person here knows a thing about me, but simply because I relate my experience implying that there might be arguments for why I or others run such pipes, most of you feel free to jump to conclusions, assume attitudes on my part I don't possess/espouse, and spill all this self righteous vitriol. What the hell is wrong with you people? This is supposed to be a community, not a gauntlet, right?
Plenty of things irritate me too - the clown at the light blowing his ears out with his windows shaking from the overamped stereo, or more to the point the seemingly never-ending Metafilter handwringing over the election & end of democracy as we know it, etc., the smug put downs of "Christians" and overweaning sense of entitlement many seem to feel to criticize anyone here who doesn't meet your world view.
Yet, I'd wager most of you would also characterize yourselves as libertarians/liberal/tolerant thinkers - just as long as everyone agrees with you, because anyone with another view or something else to say doesn't deserve courtesy, right?
Spare me.
posted by Pressed Rat at 5:27 PM on December 16, 2004
1) Despite the fact that I still own the bike I mentioned, it's sat in the garage for most of my marriage without being ridden and not at all for the last 14 years. So, at worst, I'm a reformed offender.
2) Unlike what seem to be the presumptions here, I didn't race home after puchasing it to tear off the stock pipes and put on straights just so I could (a) piss off the citizens, (b) grow my dick, or (c) compensate for feelings of inadequacy. I built this particular bike from the ground up, myself - the straights were put on for performance. Those were younger days - if & when I put it back on the road, I'm sure I'll run muffled pipes, as much for consideration of others as myself.
3) I speak from my own personal riding experience of 20+ years before putting the bike in mothballs that I thought might be worth sharing - I terrorized no one - putted through residential areas, and only opened it up when in the country. However, people who fuck with 2-wheelers (or anyone else for that matter) because they think they're an easy mark for working out their twisted aggressions don't deserve sympathy.
4) I always rode with the headlight on, did not split lanes, gave cars the right of way & drove defensively. If I didn't wear dayglow clothes with a 100,000 candlepower red beacon revolving on my helmet it's because I wore what I could afford and the suggestion is otherwise just plain stupid.
You guess wrong, Civil_Disobedient, but I'm quite sure you don't care. Not a person here knows a thing about me, but simply because I relate my experience implying that there might be arguments for why I or others run such pipes, most of you feel free to jump to conclusions, assume attitudes on my part I don't possess/espouse, and spill all this self righteous vitriol. What the hell is wrong with you people? This is supposed to be a community, not a gauntlet, right?
Plenty of things irritate me too - the clown at the light blowing his ears out with his windows shaking from the overamped stereo, or more to the point the seemingly never-ending Metafilter handwringing over the election & end of democracy as we know it, etc., the smug put downs of "Christians" and overweaning sense of entitlement many seem to feel to criticize anyone here who doesn't meet your world view.
Yet, I'd wager most of you would also characterize yourselves as libertarians/liberal/tolerant thinkers - just as long as everyone agrees with you, because anyone with another view or something else to say doesn't deserve courtesy, right?
Spare me.
posted by Pressed Rat at 5:27 PM on December 16, 2004
Loud pipes save lives?
Not when more evolved, civilized, considerate people deliberately run you off the road as a public service. I'm not saying I'm one of those people, just that I admire them and the good work they do.
posted by TimeFactor at 6:29 PM on December 16, 2004
Not when more evolved, civilized, considerate people deliberately run you off the road as a public service. I'm not saying I'm one of those people, just that I admire them and the good work they do.
posted by TimeFactor at 6:29 PM on December 16, 2004
Fair points, Pressed Rat. You're correct, we don't know you and your riding style/skills. We should not have made you the designated pinata.
But.
As Civil pointed out, the vehemence of this thread documents how much people, including other motorcyclists utterly despise the jerks who do run under-muffled bikes. Along with the over-amped car stereo boyz, and the cell phone fuckwits, and all the other detritus that have made our days the Era of the Rude.
And once you stop being angry, if you cast your mind back to your first post, you may see why you were perceived as their representative and spokesperson. If undeservedly.
posted by mojohand at 6:42 PM on December 16, 2004
But.
As Civil pointed out, the vehemence of this thread documents how much people, including other motorcyclists utterly despise the jerks who do run under-muffled bikes. Along with the over-amped car stereo boyz, and the cell phone fuckwits, and all the other detritus that have made our days the Era of the Rude.
And once you stop being angry, if you cast your mind back to your first post, you may see why you were perceived as their representative and spokesperson. If undeservedly.
posted by mojohand at 6:42 PM on December 16, 2004
I'm a motorcyclist (10+ years) and I still don't undersand straight pipes on a Harley, or a race exhaust on a Ducati (if it is on the street. On a racetrack, I understand.)
It is merely obnoxious.
Please do not lump the law-obeying motorcyclists in with those few who have chosen to change their exhausts to break the law. I realize how easy it is to do so.
posted by gen at 6:46 PM on December 16, 2004
It is merely obnoxious.
Please do not lump the law-obeying motorcyclists in with those few who have chosen to change their exhausts to break the law. I realize how easy it is to do so.
posted by gen at 6:46 PM on December 16, 2004
Oh, and Timefactor: that was just an incredibly stupid and unhelpful comment. That's called premeditated murder, if successful.
posted by mojohand at 6:49 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by mojohand at 6:49 PM on December 16, 2004
Well, people who do incredibly stupid and unhelpful things like deliberately ride around with extremely loud exhaust pipes are commiting a kind of murder by degrees. One selfish inconsiderate person dies so that thousands' of lives are not diminished by that jerk's exhaust. I'd call that intelligent and helpful to everyone. Well, not the jerk, but he doesn't care about us so we don't care about him.
posted by TimeFactor at 7:07 PM on December 16, 2004
posted by TimeFactor at 7:07 PM on December 16, 2004
You guess wrong, Civil_Disobedient, but I'm quite sure you don't care.
Rat, here are your words:
I always rode with the headlight on, did not split lanes, gave cars the right of way & drove defensively.
Besides the inherit danger involved with splitting lanes (merging cars, doors mysteriously openning in stop-n-go traffic, etc.) I've got nothing against splitting lanes. If you can do it, go ahead. At least someone's moving in traffic. People who disparage lane splitting are basically just jealous. But people getting angry at loud exhausts aren't jealous, they're honestly, justifiably angry and you hurting their hearing and not giving a damn about it.
I, too, lived in the North End, Boston, and had to deal with these pediatrician-by-day, RENEGADE!-by-night assholes riding their choppers down Hanover (I lived on Hanover right near Parmenter). There is simply no excuse for it. The only reason to do it is to be a dick. People that do things with no other purpose than to be dicks need beatings.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:08 PM on December 16, 2004
Rat, here are your words:
"when confronted by the arrogance of those in cages."I've heard the attitude before -- unless you've chosen the path of wind-in-face, you'll never know what life really feels like. I've heard this same argument from people who skydive, bungee jump, etc. It's bollocks.
I always rode with the headlight on, did not split lanes, gave cars the right of way & drove defensively.
Besides the inherit danger involved with splitting lanes (merging cars, doors mysteriously openning in stop-n-go traffic, etc.) I've got nothing against splitting lanes. If you can do it, go ahead. At least someone's moving in traffic. People who disparage lane splitting are basically just jealous. But people getting angry at loud exhausts aren't jealous, they're honestly, justifiably angry and you hurting their hearing and not giving a damn about it.
I, too, lived in the North End, Boston, and had to deal with these pediatrician-by-day, RENEGADE!-by-night assholes riding their choppers down Hanover (I lived on Hanover right near Parmenter). There is simply no excuse for it. The only reason to do it is to be a dick. People that do things with no other purpose than to be dicks need beatings.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:08 PM on December 16, 2004
I'm a street rider, club racer, MSF RiderCoach, and overall lover of all things with 2 wheels. I have ridden everything from YSR50's to SV650's to various 600's to Ducati 996's on the track. I've also ridden quite a few tourers and cruisers on the street, including Harleys (though I've never owned one). Current bike is a 2002 Interceptor (with stock pipes).
I just want to chime in as yet another rider who ABHORS loud pipes. The "loud pipes save lives" rationalization has no evidence to support it.
As a rider who takes 100% responsibility for my own Risk Management, I take the common precautions to be seen (bright headlight, bright red Aerostich suit, even brighter white or yellow helmet with reflectors), but I trust nobody on the road to actually see me. I assume I'm invisible, and act accordingly. I believe that loud pipes actually give their users a false and dangerous sense of security ("people will notice me"), leading to higher risk.
I'm anti-Big Government, so don't want to see a ban on loud pipes. There are plenty of existing ordinances that cover excessive noise of any kind, and yes they're occasionally enforced. I do try to help loud riders see the error of their ways as the opportunities arise, and have actually convinced a few people to ditch their loud pipes (in the same way I've converted a few people to full-face helmets instead of minimal letter-of-the-law brain buckets). In the end we're all in this together, and loud pipes do nothing but attract the wrong kind of attention to my favorite sport and pastime.
posted by Bradley at 9:21 AM on December 17, 2004
I just want to chime in as yet another rider who ABHORS loud pipes. The "loud pipes save lives" rationalization has no evidence to support it.
As a rider who takes 100% responsibility for my own Risk Management, I take the common precautions to be seen (bright headlight, bright red Aerostich suit, even brighter white or yellow helmet with reflectors), but I trust nobody on the road to actually see me. I assume I'm invisible, and act accordingly. I believe that loud pipes actually give their users a false and dangerous sense of security ("people will notice me"), leading to higher risk.
I'm anti-Big Government, so don't want to see a ban on loud pipes. There are plenty of existing ordinances that cover excessive noise of any kind, and yes they're occasionally enforced. I do try to help loud riders see the error of their ways as the opportunities arise, and have actually convinced a few people to ditch their loud pipes (in the same way I've converted a few people to full-face helmets instead of minimal letter-of-the-law brain buckets). In the end we're all in this together, and loud pipes do nothing but attract the wrong kind of attention to my favorite sport and pastime.
posted by Bradley at 9:21 AM on December 17, 2004
Brad - No contact information in your profile, but you sound like my kinda rider ... If you see this, check out Sport-Touring.net, a group of riders who are of much the same mind as you are. There's lots of events all over the North America and europe that we do for the 'stich-and-VFR crowd.
posted by SpecialK at 7:14 PM on December 17, 2004
posted by SpecialK at 7:14 PM on December 17, 2004
This thread is closed to new comments.
The idea being that if you can't see the bike, you are at least sure to hear it, and the chance of you (in the car) hitting the bike is lowered.
posted by anastasiav at 8:04 AM on December 16, 2004