Experiences purchasing coding services online?
August 11, 2009 6:42 PM Subscribe
Has anyone had success using freelancing sites to get an iPhone app written?
I have a killer idea for an iPhone app. However, I can't code anything more complex than a project you'd get in a second-semester freshman computer science class. Hence, I have a problem.
I was able to see some previous questions about Guru.com from a "getting work" side, but there are only a couple about using them to have work done. I'm more interested in people who've had good experiences with these types of places as the purchaser, rather than the vendor. I'm not married to one particular site, either; if you like one better than Guru, please tell me.
Finally - any tips or tricks regarding communication and potential issues with language barriers would be great; I'm more than willing to pay a dude in India $8.00/hr for an app, but only if I don't have to spend twice as much time explaining what I want done.
I have a killer idea for an iPhone app. However, I can't code anything more complex than a project you'd get in a second-semester freshman computer science class. Hence, I have a problem.
I was able to see some previous questions about Guru.com from a "getting work" side, but there are only a couple about using them to have work done. I'm more interested in people who've had good experiences with these types of places as the purchaser, rather than the vendor. I'm not married to one particular site, either; if you like one better than Guru, please tell me.
Finally - any tips or tricks regarding communication and potential issues with language barriers would be great; I'm more than willing to pay a dude in India $8.00/hr for an app, but only if I don't have to spend twice as much time explaining what I want done.
If your project idea is that killer, you should be willing to pay more than 8 dollars/hr. As you've said yourself, your project requires expertise and that's not cheap.
Success in the iPhone world can be dependent on a nifty UI and a great user experience. Again, not cheap.
That said, perhaps you could post at jobs.stackoverflow.com or rentacoder?
posted by jz at 7:19 PM on August 11, 2009
Success in the iPhone world can be dependent on a nifty UI and a great user experience. Again, not cheap.
That said, perhaps you could post at jobs.stackoverflow.com or rentacoder?
posted by jz at 7:19 PM on August 11, 2009
If you idea is that great you need to hire at least one real programmer and maybe give him a little cut of the profits. 8$ an hour isn't going to buy you a lot of attention the detail even in India.
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 PM on August 11, 2009
posted by T.D. Strange at 8:03 PM on August 11, 2009
Response by poster: Perhaps I said something I didn't mean - I totally would rather get someone who's a US guy who's skilled, and would work for a cut of the profit, but I am also thinking that it's hard to find someone like that. Am I laboring under a false idea there?
posted by plaidrabbit at 8:12 PM on August 11, 2009
posted by plaidrabbit at 8:12 PM on August 11, 2009
Check here. Please note that ideas are generally worth very little in the world of software. It is putting together software that makes money. I'm not belittling your idea (whatever it is), just setting expectations.
$8 an hour would get you laughed at. You'd be better off asking for free help in exchange for a cut of the profits and probably most of them at that. If you just pay them an hourly wage (essentially piece work) they have no stake in what happens and won't help you when bugs arise.
posted by chairface at 8:12 PM on August 11, 2009
$8 an hour would get you laughed at. You'd be better off asking for free help in exchange for a cut of the profits and probably most of them at that. If you just pay them an hourly wage (essentially piece work) they have no stake in what happens and won't help you when bugs arise.
posted by chairface at 8:12 PM on August 11, 2009
Best answer: I've posted at least 8 jobs on rent a coder and all the winning programmers have been overseas. Sure there was some communication difficulty but I found that the more put together your idea the better your idea will translate. Example: If you want a certain UI, draw it out and send it to them.
I've only had one job drop because the coder was above his head. Most of the coders expect (and probably should) a tip when the project is done. All the coders I dealt with had great reviews and asked a ton of questions prior to bidding on the project. Beware of the ones that say they can do it for the least amount of time and money.
posted by bleucube at 8:38 PM on August 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
I've only had one job drop because the coder was above his head. Most of the coders expect (and probably should) a tip when the project is done. All the coders I dealt with had great reviews and asked a ton of questions prior to bidding on the project. Beware of the ones that say they can do it for the least amount of time and money.
posted by bleucube at 8:38 PM on August 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Finally - any tips or tricks regarding communication and potential issues with language barriers would be great; I'm more than willing to pay a dude in India $8.00/hr for an app, but only if I don't have to spend twice as much time explaining what I want done.
I wouldn't do an overseas consultant for an iPhone app. The reason being that there's an acceptance process which may require a fair amount of back and forth as you submit a revision, they take three weeks to deny it, and you have to resubmit it.
Also, are you prepared to manage that process? Because the dude in Bangalore isn't going to want to.
Also, the language barrier usually isn't the issue. The issue is the quality barrier. Especially on a reviewed/QA'd product like an iPhone app. The coding quality standards for iPhone apps are quite high. This is not a situation where if it works, it works. It has to work, and also survive their automated beating.
If there's a fault someplace, and it fails acceptance for that, you have to be sure that your engineer a) is capable enough to find his error and fix it (because the app review people don't tell you anything more than "there was a memory leak"); and b) that he wrote it in such a way that it could be modified to begin with.
Having seen a lot of this freelancer Indian code, most of it is pure spaghetti. To the extent that I get hired to fix it or extend it. And in most cases, it's cheaper to throw it away and replicate the functionality (not just easier for me, but cheaper for my clients). Just pure excrement most of the time.
[Mind you, this isn't an I'm-smarter-than-them issue. It's that the smart Indian programmers are working for one of the many legitimate multinationals (google, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc.) that have labs there, consulting for people in their network, or doing their own startups, not freelancing on web boards.]
Perhaps I said something I didn't mean - I totally would rather get someone who's a US guy who's skilled, and would work for a cut of the profit, but I am also thinking that it's hard to find someone like that. Am I laboring under a false idea there?
No, you're not laboring under a false idea. Anybody who took that deal would be an idiot. As any good freelance hacker knows: get the money up front.
Especially on an iPhone app. The numbers I've seen recently (from my friends who work on iPhone stuff) is that the top 10 or 15 apps (that's apps, not percent) are making 90% of the money. While there was a gold rush situation at the beginning of the iPhone app cycle, the market is so vastly and hugely oversaturated now that there's just no money to be made unless you're a big name publisher who can afford advertising. And then there's the refund policy. And the feedback policy.
Frankly, the iPhone app store is a very hostile environment for anybody who isn't either a huge company or a hobbiest.
The best way you're going to get your app, and get it done right, is to pay a local engineer a reasonable rate ($50+/hr). Try craigslist. Or, if you're in the Seattle area, drop me a memail.
posted by Netzapper at 10:22 PM on August 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
I wouldn't do an overseas consultant for an iPhone app. The reason being that there's an acceptance process which may require a fair amount of back and forth as you submit a revision, they take three weeks to deny it, and you have to resubmit it.
Also, are you prepared to manage that process? Because the dude in Bangalore isn't going to want to.
Also, the language barrier usually isn't the issue. The issue is the quality barrier. Especially on a reviewed/QA'd product like an iPhone app. The coding quality standards for iPhone apps are quite high. This is not a situation where if it works, it works. It has to work, and also survive their automated beating.
If there's a fault someplace, and it fails acceptance for that, you have to be sure that your engineer a) is capable enough to find his error and fix it (because the app review people don't tell you anything more than "there was a memory leak"); and b) that he wrote it in such a way that it could be modified to begin with.
Having seen a lot of this freelancer Indian code, most of it is pure spaghetti. To the extent that I get hired to fix it or extend it. And in most cases, it's cheaper to throw it away and replicate the functionality (not just easier for me, but cheaper for my clients). Just pure excrement most of the time.
[Mind you, this isn't an I'm-smarter-than-them issue. It's that the smart Indian programmers are working for one of the many legitimate multinationals (google, Yahoo, Microsoft, etc.) that have labs there, consulting for people in their network, or doing their own startups, not freelancing on web boards.]
Perhaps I said something I didn't mean - I totally would rather get someone who's a US guy who's skilled, and would work for a cut of the profit, but I am also thinking that it's hard to find someone like that. Am I laboring under a false idea there?
No, you're not laboring under a false idea. Anybody who took that deal would be an idiot. As any good freelance hacker knows: get the money up front.
Especially on an iPhone app. The numbers I've seen recently (from my friends who work on iPhone stuff) is that the top 10 or 15 apps (that's apps, not percent) are making 90% of the money. While there was a gold rush situation at the beginning of the iPhone app cycle, the market is so vastly and hugely oversaturated now that there's just no money to be made unless you're a big name publisher who can afford advertising. And then there's the refund policy. And the feedback policy.
Frankly, the iPhone app store is a very hostile environment for anybody who isn't either a huge company or a hobbiest.
The best way you're going to get your app, and get it done right, is to pay a local engineer a reasonable rate ($50+/hr). Try craigslist. Or, if you're in the Seattle area, drop me a memail.
posted by Netzapper at 10:22 PM on August 11, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think in this case you're far better off working with a local developer who can guide you through the processes involved.
Also, if you're able to fully describe the app and anticipate potential pitfalls and tricky details (essential before even considering outsourcing), then you're probably capable of installing Xcode and creating a proper iPhone mockup (very handy for clarifying your ideas and getting developers to take you seriously). If that idea scares you then that may be a sign that you need someone to help write the app's spec and plan the project, and not just code something that vaguely matches your overall idea.
posted by malevolent at 11:58 PM on August 11, 2009
Also, if you're able to fully describe the app and anticipate potential pitfalls and tricky details (essential before even considering outsourcing), then you're probably capable of installing Xcode and creating a proper iPhone mockup (very handy for clarifying your ideas and getting developers to take you seriously). If that idea scares you then that may be a sign that you need someone to help write the app's spec and plan the project, and not just code something that vaguely matches your overall idea.
posted by malevolent at 11:58 PM on August 11, 2009
I've done this. Here's what I recommend: Go to Scriptlance.com, type "iphone" into the search box, and take a look at the various kinds of iphone projects other people are working on and what kinds of bids they're getting. You might be surprised at how affordable it can be.
In our case, we hired a programmer to develop our iphone app as a simple web-based PHP script, with a very "iphone" look, which cost about $400, and then hired another programmer to turn it into a self-contained iphone app available at the app store, which cost only $100.
These freelance sites have rating/feedback systems; I would recommend only working with a programmer who has a high rating and a good number of positive reviews.
posted by dacoit at 11:37 PM on August 12, 2009
In our case, we hired a programmer to develop our iphone app as a simple web-based PHP script, with a very "iphone" look, which cost about $400, and then hired another programmer to turn it into a self-contained iphone app available at the app store, which cost only $100.
These freelance sites have rating/feedback systems; I would recommend only working with a programmer who has a high rating and a good number of positive reviews.
posted by dacoit at 11:37 PM on August 12, 2009
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posted by delmoi at 6:52 PM on August 11, 2009