Kids floating outside the kitchen window
August 2, 2009 4:41 PM Subscribe
how to empty the fire escape as quickly as possible in the event of NOT a fire
Our new place is on the top floor and has a pretty substantial fire escape that reaches all the way from the ground floor to our kitchen window. It seems to be very attractive to the neighborhood kids. Unlike fire escapes I'm used to, which require the person coming down to lower a ladder for the last story, this escape is a complete stairway so it's very easy for the kids to climb up and down. Which they do. All day long. Since it's a shaky wrought iron stairway, that's incredibly noisy, and it's a little disturbing to have them show up at the kitchen window when we live up so high. Speaking to them sternly about getting down worked a few times ("The fire escape is not a good place to play. You could fall. You're disturbing our dinner.") worked the first few times. Now, we get retorts of, 'good thing we don't care. good thing you don't know our names. good thing you don't know where we live.'
It's clearly prohibited to be on the fire escape in our lease (there's actually a spelled-out fine for being on there without a fire danger), so of course I'll be complaining to the landlord, but I don't have a lot of hope in them getting results. I suspect these are just neighborhood kids who don't even live in the complex. Any tips?
On a tangent to this same issue, the whole matter has pointed out to me how easy it is for *anyone* to climb up those stairs to our window. Unlike our deadbolted front door with a chain, which now seems silly in light of this, the kitchen window is large and easy to open even when locked with its inconsequential clips. I didn't really worry about window locks since we live so high up, but what kind of locks would people in the suburbs have on the ground floor?
Our new place is on the top floor and has a pretty substantial fire escape that reaches all the way from the ground floor to our kitchen window. It seems to be very attractive to the neighborhood kids. Unlike fire escapes I'm used to, which require the person coming down to lower a ladder for the last story, this escape is a complete stairway so it's very easy for the kids to climb up and down. Which they do. All day long. Since it's a shaky wrought iron stairway, that's incredibly noisy, and it's a little disturbing to have them show up at the kitchen window when we live up so high. Speaking to them sternly about getting down worked a few times ("The fire escape is not a good place to play. You could fall. You're disturbing our dinner.") worked the first few times. Now, we get retorts of, 'good thing we don't care. good thing you don't know our names. good thing you don't know where we live.'
It's clearly prohibited to be on the fire escape in our lease (there's actually a spelled-out fine for being on there without a fire danger), so of course I'll be complaining to the landlord, but I don't have a lot of hope in them getting results. I suspect these are just neighborhood kids who don't even live in the complex. Any tips?
On a tangent to this same issue, the whole matter has pointed out to me how easy it is for *anyone* to climb up those stairs to our window. Unlike our deadbolted front door with a chain, which now seems silly in light of this, the kitchen window is large and easy to open even when locked with its inconsequential clips. I didn't really worry about window locks since we live so high up, but what kind of locks would people in the suburbs have on the ground floor?
Best answer: You're saying that the bottom cannot be pulled up at all? They're either trespassing or earning their parents a fine. Call the police and the landlord/superintendent at the same time. Also, feel free to drop the names of possibly-applicable liabilities.
You could also start dumping out buckets of water randomly. What do your neighbors along the fire escape say about this? Could it just be something that is tolerated?
posted by rhizome at 4:54 PM on August 2, 2009
You could also start dumping out buckets of water randomly. What do your neighbors along the fire escape say about this? Could it just be something that is tolerated?
posted by rhizome at 4:54 PM on August 2, 2009
Oh, and other than that -- if permissible, put some nice window boxes of flowers or herbs on the outside of that window. You know, not where it'll interfere with the fire escape, but...
And when the kids come by? Well, the plants need water, don't they?
posted by SpecialK at 4:54 PM on August 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
And when the kids come by? Well, the plants need water, don't they?
posted by SpecialK at 4:54 PM on August 2, 2009 [2 favorites]
My instant reaction is rigging contraptions like trip wires involving dumping buckets of molasses, etc. on their heads or making yours the proverbial haunted apartment by dressing up in creepy costumes or making your windows all dark, holding knives and chopping something bloody when they come up near the kitchen window to scare them away?
But more realistically speaking, and it's probably a fire hazard, but is there any way you could take a few metal link chains and padlock them across the entryway to just your part of the fire escape? If you're at the top it's not like you'd be blocking anyone's escape route but your own and you could always just have the key to the locks handy by the window in case you needed to get out (or just get combination locks). I don't know what your fire escape looks like, so I don't know if there is a place where you could sort of place chains to at least block the way to your window/apartment. The kids could probably hop over anything you could construct anyway, but it might deter them a little.
OR, do you have a common area in your building where you could post a notice about it if any of the kids ARE from the building so their parents might see it since your landlord might take a while?
posted by bobdylanforever at 4:57 PM on August 2, 2009
But more realistically speaking, and it's probably a fire hazard, but is there any way you could take a few metal link chains and padlock them across the entryway to just your part of the fire escape? If you're at the top it's not like you'd be blocking anyone's escape route but your own and you could always just have the key to the locks handy by the window in case you needed to get out (or just get combination locks). I don't know what your fire escape looks like, so I don't know if there is a place where you could sort of place chains to at least block the way to your window/apartment. The kids could probably hop over anything you could construct anyway, but it might deter them a little.
OR, do you have a common area in your building where you could post a notice about it if any of the kids ARE from the building so their parents might see it since your landlord might take a while?
posted by bobdylanforever at 4:57 PM on August 2, 2009
Best answer: I thought about suggesting water, too, but that's a really good way to earn retribution. Like a brick through your window.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 4:58 PM on August 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 4:58 PM on August 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Best answer: Call the police? That's what they're for, after all.
posted by jayder at 4:59 PM on August 2, 2009
posted by jayder at 4:59 PM on August 2, 2009
On a tangent to this same issue, the whole matter has pointed out to me how easy it is for *anyone* to climb up those stairs to our window.
This really is a related issue, because those kids or their friends are bound to notice how easy it is to enter your apartment.
The kids have no business being on the fire-escape on your floor. Hopefully your landlord will take this really seriously and talk to the parents in the building.
Also, next time this happens, call the police. Don't give the kids any warning like saying, "Shoo or I'll call the cops!" Just do it, report neighborhood children trespassing unsafely. If the cops get there in time to see anything, then those kids won't stay anonymous for long. Cops love to scare kids out of doing dumb shit.
In the meantime, can you stretch a chain across the stairs on the floor below you with a sign that says "DO NOT ENTER"? Or noisy deterrents -- bells and windchimes that drape across so that no one can enter or exit quietly?
posted by hermitosis at 4:59 PM on August 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
This really is a related issue, because those kids or their friends are bound to notice how easy it is to enter your apartment.
The kids have no business being on the fire-escape on your floor. Hopefully your landlord will take this really seriously and talk to the parents in the building.
Also, next time this happens, call the police. Don't give the kids any warning like saying, "Shoo or I'll call the cops!" Just do it, report neighborhood children trespassing unsafely. If the cops get there in time to see anything, then those kids won't stay anonymous for long. Cops love to scare kids out of doing dumb shit.
In the meantime, can you stretch a chain across the stairs on the floor below you with a sign that says "DO NOT ENTER"? Or noisy deterrents -- bells and windchimes that drape across so that no one can enter or exit quietly?
posted by hermitosis at 4:59 PM on August 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: wow, way to quickly me feel like i'm not just being fusserbudget about the whole thing. i will not have a problem with calling cops the next time this is going on. in response to rhizome, yeah, there's no way to pull up the bottom -- this is basically an outdoor stairway.
i am loathe to do anything myself to the fire escape to deter climbers -- there are also clear fines for keeping anything out there and god forbid, i caused someone to trip during an actual fire. and the water thing was my first instinct as well....
i'm not sure what the neighbors think, as we have just moved in, but i have to imagine it disturbs them too -- even when they don't make it all the way to our window, the vibrations are super loud. kinda makes me less nervous about someone trying to sneak up...just a little less...but annoying as hell that they're out there jumping around...
posted by Tandem Affinity at 5:10 PM on August 2, 2009
i am loathe to do anything myself to the fire escape to deter climbers -- there are also clear fines for keeping anything out there and god forbid, i caused someone to trip during an actual fire. and the water thing was my first instinct as well....
i'm not sure what the neighbors think, as we have just moved in, but i have to imagine it disturbs them too -- even when they don't make it all the way to our window, the vibrations are super loud. kinda makes me less nervous about someone trying to sneak up...just a little less...but annoying as hell that they're out there jumping around...
posted by Tandem Affinity at 5:10 PM on August 2, 2009
Sorry but can you also complain to the landlord that your fire escape gives easy access to your apartment from outside the building? That seems like a personal safety issue.
posted by sully75 at 5:21 PM on August 2, 2009
posted by sully75 at 5:21 PM on August 2, 2009
Best answer: There may be legal issues to consider, but what about taking a picture of the kids every time you see them on the fire escape, and handing the photo(s) over to the police? That's evidence and a deterrent all at the same time.
posted by sueinnyc at 5:26 PM on August 2, 2009
posted by sueinnyc at 5:26 PM on August 2, 2009
I've only had to do this for dangerous neighbors, but one thing you might look into is other liability issues with regard to your landlord. This speaks to what sully75 said, but in some parts of the country, if there is some aspect of the property that puts your property at risk and the landlord has been notified that it is a risk (burglary, etc.), the landlord can be held liable for not doing anything to mitigate it in the eventuality that something does happen. Not sure if you'd call it a "told you so" law, but words along these lines were very effective in convincing our landlord that something had to be done about certain people in our building, where there was caselaw on-point for landlord liability in that situation. I'd think it would be doubly effective in your case since there is language in the lease for the exact situation you're complaining about.
I'll reiterate: make it the landlord's problem and hit him where it hurts: personal liability. You've already done your part.
And yeah, don't earn yourself any offsetting penalties for violating your own terms by putting something out there if you're not supposed to.
posted by rhizome at 5:32 PM on August 2, 2009
I'll reiterate: make it the landlord's problem and hit him where it hurts: personal liability. You've already done your part.
And yeah, don't earn yourself any offsetting penalties for violating your own terms by putting something out there if you're not supposed to.
posted by rhizome at 5:32 PM on August 2, 2009
From the perspective of a teenager: if I was doing this to you (not that I would, please don't get the wrong impression of me), the best way to deter me would to be take photographs and/or call the police immediately. I would run like the wind, and I'm not particularly easy to freak out. The fact that the police might knock on my door is a pretty decent deterrent.
Of course, it depends: do you keep seeing repeat offenders, just new people or a mix of both? If it's the same people over and over it might work pretty well, but it won't keep new people from making appearances. I'm also assuming these are older children.
And although it is a less instantly gratifying long term solution, talking to your landlord and having him/her take care of it might permanently solve the problem if they take some useful action. The key word is useful: a sign or a chain over the entrance won't do anything permanent or useful, as I'm sure you're aware.
hermitosis: "Or noisy deterrents -- bells and windchimes that drape across so that no one can enter or exit quietly?"
That would put salt in the wound. Her fire escape is apparently quite loud enough. If I was intent on getting to the top of that fire escape, making noise would be the least of my problems, let alone a deterrent. The above example of "acting scary" doesn't work either, especially if you are dealing with people who are younger then teenagers: the fact that it's a "haunted house" is even more of an incentive to come and annoy the hell out of you, which is exactly what you don't want. Older children just won't care.
posted by Askiba at 5:46 PM on August 2, 2009
Of course, it depends: do you keep seeing repeat offenders, just new people or a mix of both? If it's the same people over and over it might work pretty well, but it won't keep new people from making appearances. I'm also assuming these are older children.
And although it is a less instantly gratifying long term solution, talking to your landlord and having him/her take care of it might permanently solve the problem if they take some useful action. The key word is useful: a sign or a chain over the entrance won't do anything permanent or useful, as I'm sure you're aware.
hermitosis: "Or noisy deterrents -- bells and windchimes that drape across so that no one can enter or exit quietly?"
That would put salt in the wound. Her fire escape is apparently quite loud enough. If I was intent on getting to the top of that fire escape, making noise would be the least of my problems, let alone a deterrent. The above example of "acting scary" doesn't work either, especially if you are dealing with people who are younger then teenagers: the fact that it's a "haunted house" is even more of an incentive to come and annoy the hell out of you, which is exactly what you don't want. Older children just won't care.
posted by Askiba at 5:46 PM on August 2, 2009
Sorry for double post, but an addition: try talking to your neighbors and asking their opinions. If you have a lot of shy, but concerned, neighbors, you could all make a joint request for some kind of useful deterrent. Unless your landlord is completely unconcerned about their property and tenants (and financial security...), they will most likely be quicker to act then if you ask alone.
posted by Askiba at 5:49 PM on August 2, 2009
posted by Askiba at 5:49 PM on August 2, 2009
Regarding photographs: you have every right to take photographs out your own window! Goodness gracious.
If you give photos to the landlord and tell him that your next (very justified) step will be to give the photos to the fire department and the police, he will probably be very helpful in abating the fire escape abuse. IANAL but I would use the phrases "fire code" and "attractive nuisance".
posted by mindsound at 7:04 PM on August 2, 2009
If you give photos to the landlord and tell him that your next (very justified) step will be to give the photos to the fire department and the police, he will probably be very helpful in abating the fire escape abuse. IANAL but I would use the phrases "fire code" and "attractive nuisance".
posted by mindsound at 7:04 PM on August 2, 2009
Oh! Do you have renter's insurance? If not you should because it's cheap. Talk to your current or potential insurer about the problem and they may either be willing to contact the landlord or tell you who better to talk to to get this resolved for good. I would imagine an insurance company would *not* like the fact that malingerers can just walk up the stairs, as people have noted.
posted by mindsound at 7:07 PM on August 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by mindsound at 7:07 PM on August 2, 2009 [1 favorite]
Some convenience stores play classical music to discourage teen loiterers, but you might as well just call the cops. It's a serious safety issue. 2nd the recommendation to put a dowel in the channel of the window for security.
posted by theora55 at 8:23 PM on August 2, 2009
posted by theora55 at 8:23 PM on August 2, 2009
When you contact the landlord say, "Yes, the children are out here every day. I'm concerned about their safety and the security of my apartment. I'm just notifying you of the situation, which I hope you'll resolve. Oh, by the way, what's a good mailing address where I can send a certified letter? Oh, it's nothing. I just want a record in writing where I notified you of this persistent and dangerous problem. You know, just to protect both of us."
Then follow up with a mater-of-fact letter stating the problem and that you've already discussed it with the landlord. It only takes a few minutes, and if one of these little street urchins get's his neck caught in the railing, well the negligent parents will be more than happy to buy you a steak dinner as the lawyer who chased the ambulance sues the landlord into bankruptcy.
Landlords and property management firms only understand things which are written down. Something sent via certified mail will get their attention.
posted by wfrgms at 9:37 PM on August 2, 2009
Then follow up with a mater-of-fact letter stating the problem and that you've already discussed it with the landlord. It only takes a few minutes, and if one of these little street urchins get's his neck caught in the railing, well the negligent parents will be more than happy to buy you a steak dinner as the lawyer who chased the ambulance sues the landlord into bankruptcy.
Landlords and property management firms only understand things which are written down. Something sent via certified mail will get their attention.
posted by wfrgms at 9:37 PM on August 2, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
Instead of complaining to the landlord, you might call the police and fire departments and ask if there is anything they can pressure the kids or landlord about.
posted by SpecialK at 4:53 PM on August 2, 2009 [1 favorite]