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July 23, 2009 9:06 AM Subscribe
How should we deal with our roommate's (long term) uninvited guest?
Background: My girlfriend and I moved into our apartment last May with two friends (W and X), all in our early twenties. Our place is a 3BR with four people and we split the rent evenly four ways. We extended the lease through the end of August, but W was unable to stay and so we found Y (same age) via Craigslist in June.
We like our new roommate, but she's twice brought overnight guests into our place without asking. (Not boyfriends/hookups - I don't really care about that.) Y had two older cousins stay for the Fourth of July weekend, but they stayed in her room and were generally unobtrusive. In this case, a friend of Y suddenly arrived in Boston for an extended visit and she apparently invited this Z to stay with her (us).
Z is friendly enough, and very outgoing. From conversations we've had, she's from Orange County and attends an international school in Paris. She has been sleeping in our living room since she arrived last Wednesday. It was unclear how long Z was crashing with us, but she was around when my girlfriend and I left for Chicago on Sunday. We got home last night and were very peeved to find her still here.
My girlfriend and I are both introverts and need space and privacy, while Y and X are very extroverted. Complicating matters, it appears that X and Z became friends while we were gone, so now we feel beset on all sides. We feel uncomfortable in our own home. The added stress is exacerbating my girlfriend's anxiety disorder. I was laid off the day Z arrived, so I don't have work as an outlet.
We don't know explicitly whether Z can afford to stay in a hotel. My tacit assumption, however, is that Orange County + school in Paris = loaded. From what we've gathered, it looks like Z is staying here until the 26th. At a minimum, we're going to be asking Y to cover Z's portion of electricity and hot water. But we really want Z to leave. We're both unsure of how to confront people who are essentially strangers, and while I do have a violent temper, I really don't like to lose it. How can my girlfriend and I approach this and avoid living in a stressful environment for the rest of the summer?
Background: My girlfriend and I moved into our apartment last May with two friends (W and X), all in our early twenties. Our place is a 3BR with four people and we split the rent evenly four ways. We extended the lease through the end of August, but W was unable to stay and so we found Y (same age) via Craigslist in June.
We like our new roommate, but she's twice brought overnight guests into our place without asking. (Not boyfriends/hookups - I don't really care about that.) Y had two older cousins stay for the Fourth of July weekend, but they stayed in her room and were generally unobtrusive. In this case, a friend of Y suddenly arrived in Boston for an extended visit and she apparently invited this Z to stay with her (us).
Z is friendly enough, and very outgoing. From conversations we've had, she's from Orange County and attends an international school in Paris. She has been sleeping in our living room since she arrived last Wednesday. It was unclear how long Z was crashing with us, but she was around when my girlfriend and I left for Chicago on Sunday. We got home last night and were very peeved to find her still here.
My girlfriend and I are both introverts and need space and privacy, while Y and X are very extroverted. Complicating matters, it appears that X and Z became friends while we were gone, so now we feel beset on all sides. We feel uncomfortable in our own home. The added stress is exacerbating my girlfriend's anxiety disorder. I was laid off the day Z arrived, so I don't have work as an outlet.
We don't know explicitly whether Z can afford to stay in a hotel. My tacit assumption, however, is that Orange County + school in Paris = loaded. From what we've gathered, it looks like Z is staying here until the 26th. At a minimum, we're going to be asking Y to cover Z's portion of electricity and hot water. But we really want Z to leave. We're both unsure of how to confront people who are essentially strangers, and while I do have a violent temper, I really don't like to lose it. How can my girlfriend and I approach this and avoid living in a stressful environment for the rest of the summer?
Have you talked to X and Y about this? Just having a sit-down paying-roommates meeting about the fact that a fifth, unofficial roommate has moved in? It seems that you're letting resentment build up before actually addressing the problem.
A solution can't happen if the people with whom you have a problem don't know you have a problem. Seething about it in silence doesn't lead to any discussion, so I'd ask, in a calm, rational way while Z is out of the house, if you and your girlfriend can talk to X and Y about this guest and what can be done to make everyone who pays rent on the apartment happy.
posted by xingcat at 9:14 AM on July 23, 2009
A solution can't happen if the people with whom you have a problem don't know you have a problem. Seething about it in silence doesn't lead to any discussion, so I'd ask, in a calm, rational way while Z is out of the house, if you and your girlfriend can talk to X and Y about this guest and what can be done to make everyone who pays rent on the apartment happy.
posted by xingcat at 9:14 AM on July 23, 2009
Passive aggressive way to remove couch sleeper = movie marathon such that new person can't used living room. Really though, I'd skip the financial end of this argument (it will only be a couple of bucks) and just cut straight to the heart of the thing with your new roommate. Guests are fine, but please let us know ahead of time. Also, they can't live in 'our' living room.
Also, check you lease. It may have something about how many people can live there and occupancy rates and stuff.
posted by maxpower at 9:14 AM on July 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, check you lease. It may have something about how many people can live there and occupancy rates and stuff.
posted by maxpower at 9:14 AM on July 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
From what we've gathered, it looks like Z is staying here until the 26th.
Of July? It's unclear from what you said.
If Z is leaving in three days my advice is to do whatever you can to suck it up for the next three days and then have a nice house chat about the limits to guests. In the meantime, if you can keep your temper in check -- no one broke any existing rules though they may have broken what you may feel are unstated rules -- you'll be negotiating from a better position. Seriously, no one has done anything to merit you being violently angry with them, so consider this your own problem to solve. I sympathize that you feel, besides personally inconvenienced, possibly pressured by your girlfriend to handle this and I'd treat that issue seriously in some sort of "we will get through this, let's make a plan" sort of way.
When you do talk to your roommates, have an idea of what you want out of the conversation. What do you think is fair as far as overnight guests? Some suggestions
- no one sleeps in the living room without at least a mention to the other housemates [draw a line between "asking permission" and "hey just let us know" Some people bristle at the former and don't mind the latter]
- no one stays for more than three days and/or stays without a definite "I am leaving by _____ date"
- houseguest's personal items should be kept in the room of the person they are visiting
- houseguests should not be hanging out in the house when their hosts are not present for long periods of time.
- this does not apply to hookups/partners BUT if someone has a partner basically living there, things may need to be renegotiated.
My general feeling is that you guys are coming from different personal-cultural perspectives on this. I know people who live like your roommates and I know people who live like you do (I live more like you do). You're going to have to assume they don't really understand your perspective and you'll get further if you explain how this makes you feel and not go from the supposition that they're doing something that breaks some sort of rule you all had in place.
At the end of the day, you may have a choice to make. If your other roommates can't see it your way, or agree to some ground rules that make you and your GF comfortable in your own home. It's okay to not want to deal with strangers in your living room. It's okay to not want to have long term houseguests. Your requests and feelings are reasonable. Getting them across to your housemates in the most reasonable fashion possible will give you the best possibility for a good outcome. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 9:16 AM on July 23, 2009 [11 favorites]
Of July? It's unclear from what you said.
If Z is leaving in three days my advice is to do whatever you can to suck it up for the next three days and then have a nice house chat about the limits to guests. In the meantime, if you can keep your temper in check -- no one broke any existing rules though they may have broken what you may feel are unstated rules -- you'll be negotiating from a better position. Seriously, no one has done anything to merit you being violently angry with them, so consider this your own problem to solve. I sympathize that you feel, besides personally inconvenienced, possibly pressured by your girlfriend to handle this and I'd treat that issue seriously in some sort of "we will get through this, let's make a plan" sort of way.
When you do talk to your roommates, have an idea of what you want out of the conversation. What do you think is fair as far as overnight guests? Some suggestions
- no one sleeps in the living room without at least a mention to the other housemates [draw a line between "asking permission" and "hey just let us know" Some people bristle at the former and don't mind the latter]
- no one stays for more than three days and/or stays without a definite "I am leaving by _____ date"
- houseguest's personal items should be kept in the room of the person they are visiting
- houseguests should not be hanging out in the house when their hosts are not present for long periods of time.
- this does not apply to hookups/partners BUT if someone has a partner basically living there, things may need to be renegotiated.
My general feeling is that you guys are coming from different personal-cultural perspectives on this. I know people who live like your roommates and I know people who live like you do (I live more like you do). You're going to have to assume they don't really understand your perspective and you'll get further if you explain how this makes you feel and not go from the supposition that they're doing something that breaks some sort of rule you all had in place.
At the end of the day, you may have a choice to make. If your other roommates can't see it your way, or agree to some ground rules that make you and your GF comfortable in your own home. It's okay to not want to deal with strangers in your living room. It's okay to not want to have long term houseguests. Your requests and feelings are reasonable. Getting them across to your housemates in the most reasonable fashion possible will give you the best possibility for a good outcome. Good luck.
posted by jessamyn at 9:16 AM on July 23, 2009 [11 favorites]
Did you guys have any agreed upon rules for guests? If not, then I don't think there is much you can do for Y's guest, except wait it out till they leave in a couple of days, and ask Y to insist that they throw in some money for utilities.
For the future, create ground rules for uninvited guests, and rules that apply equally, to everyone. Have a house meeting if you will. Make sure everyone agrees.
I moved into a new house about a month ago, with two other roommates, and moved into their pre-existing rules, and it's seemed to work out so far.
Guests staying 3 nights or less = ok, no prob
Guests staying 3 nights to a week = ok, but the guest must contribute to utilities, or cook dinner or something
Guests staying more than a week = MUST get pre approval of all other housemates
YMMV, but it's best to set agreed upon rules and standards for all other potential guests for all roommates involved way ahead of time.
posted by raztaj at 9:17 AM on July 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
For the future, create ground rules for uninvited guests, and rules that apply equally, to everyone. Have a house meeting if you will. Make sure everyone agrees.
I moved into a new house about a month ago, with two other roommates, and moved into their pre-existing rules, and it's seemed to work out so far.
Guests staying 3 nights or less = ok, no prob
Guests staying 3 nights to a week = ok, but the guest must contribute to utilities, or cook dinner or something
Guests staying more than a week = MUST get pre approval of all other housemates
YMMV, but it's best to set agreed upon rules and standards for all other potential guests for all roommates involved way ahead of time.
posted by raztaj at 9:17 AM on July 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
Perhaps it is a violation of your lease to have that many people living in the apartment?? Could you infer to Y that the landlord contacted you about having that many people (seemingly) permanently living in the apartment?
posted by AlliKat75 at 9:18 AM on July 23, 2009
posted by AlliKat75 at 9:18 AM on July 23, 2009
My tacit assumption, however, is that Orange County + school in Paris = loaded.
Don't make assumptions like that; you really have no idea what her financial situation is.
At a minimum, we're going to be asking Y to cover Z's portion of electricity and hot water.
You do have a problem, and it does need to be solved, and someone will come along and tell you a good way to do it. But I have to jump in and say that this idea is both anal and foolish. Is the fridge running more because she's there? Are the lights on longer? Are you sure that you or your girlfriend or X didn't take extra long showers this month? Should you have paid less because you were gone for a weekend?
I had a roommie once who tried to pull this because she was gone for a week, and it created so much hostility among everyone and accomplished so very, very little in the end. It's just not worth it.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 9:20 AM on July 23, 2009
Don't make assumptions like that; you really have no idea what her financial situation is.
At a minimum, we're going to be asking Y to cover Z's portion of electricity and hot water.
You do have a problem, and it does need to be solved, and someone will come along and tell you a good way to do it. But I have to jump in and say that this idea is both anal and foolish. Is the fridge running more because she's there? Are the lights on longer? Are you sure that you or your girlfriend or X didn't take extra long showers this month? Should you have paid less because you were gone for a weekend?
I had a roommie once who tried to pull this because she was gone for a week, and it created so much hostility among everyone and accomplished so very, very little in the end. It's just not worth it.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 9:20 AM on July 23, 2009
This is sort of confusing.
This is not even close to a "long term" guest, for one...
Y should be asking you and X in advance before inviting guests to stay, and you should politely tell her as much. But. The tags here and the mention of a "violent temper" and threat of harbouring ill will "for the rest of the summer" do not paint a picture of a nice reasonable dude. "At a minimum, we're going to be asking Y to cover Z's portion of electricity and hot water" -- seriously? The long-term solution here is for you and your girlfriend to find a place without roommates. This are some pretty petty beefs, and it's not clear why you haven't been able to say "Yo, Y, next time Z or anybody else is in town -- we need to talk before you invite them to crash, okay?"
On preview: AlliKat75's advice is awful; duplicity -- transparent duplicity given that this is really not a "long term" guest -- is not going to do anything useful.
posted by kmennie at 9:22 AM on July 23, 2009
This is not even close to a "long term" guest, for one...
Y should be asking you and X in advance before inviting guests to stay, and you should politely tell her as much. But. The tags here and the mention of a "violent temper" and threat of harbouring ill will "for the rest of the summer" do not paint a picture of a nice reasonable dude. "At a minimum, we're going to be asking Y to cover Z's portion of electricity and hot water" -- seriously? The long-term solution here is for you and your girlfriend to find a place without roommates. This are some pretty petty beefs, and it's not clear why you haven't been able to say "Yo, Y, next time Z or anybody else is in town -- we need to talk before you invite them to crash, okay?"
On preview: AlliKat75's advice is awful; duplicity -- transparent duplicity given that this is really not a "long term" guest -- is not going to do anything useful.
posted by kmennie at 9:22 AM on July 23, 2009
I don't see any reason why you can't directly ask Y or Z how long they planned on having Z stay. Make what is tacit explicit.
You can tell them that it's not cool. Y may not understand that decisions like these have to be made by the entire apartment - all 4 of you in agreement; any of you should have veto power. Y may believe that because she pays rent, it's okay for her to invite whomever she wants to crash on the communal couch for as long as she likes. But your need for sanctuary trumps Y's sense of entitlement.
In my experience, these things will just seethe under the surface if you don't tell everybody what needs to be said. Otherwise can lead to even bigger rifts in the future.
posted by jabberjaw at 9:26 AM on July 23, 2009
You can tell them that it's not cool. Y may not understand that decisions like these have to be made by the entire apartment - all 4 of you in agreement; any of you should have veto power. Y may believe that because she pays rent, it's okay for her to invite whomever she wants to crash on the communal couch for as long as she likes. But your need for sanctuary trumps Y's sense of entitlement.
In my experience, these things will just seethe under the surface if you don't tell everybody what needs to be said. Otherwise can lead to even bigger rifts in the future.
posted by jabberjaw at 9:26 AM on July 23, 2009
Response by poster: To clear some things up:
- I'm not about to have an "incident" with screaming and cursing, and I haven't made threats
- We ARE finding our own place for Sept 1 (We signed the lease on Monday)
- I tend to agree with Jessamyn that we are from different cultures, because for us, crashing for a day or two is fine, but a week and a half without warning is really excessive
- There is never a time when all of us are here without Z, so if any meeting takes place, it's not happening until after she leaves on July 26.
posted by HumuloneRanger at 9:35 AM on July 23, 2009
- I'm not about to have an "incident" with screaming and cursing, and I haven't made threats
- We ARE finding our own place for Sept 1 (We signed the lease on Monday)
- I tend to agree with Jessamyn that we are from different cultures, because for us, crashing for a day or two is fine, but a week and a half without warning is really excessive
- There is never a time when all of us are here without Z, so if any meeting takes place, it's not happening until after she leaves on July 26.
posted by HumuloneRanger at 9:35 AM on July 23, 2009
Response by poster: The second point above should read "... really excessive and qualifies as long term."
posted by HumuloneRanger at 9:37 AM on July 23, 2009
posted by HumuloneRanger at 9:37 AM on July 23, 2009
while I do have a violent temper, I really don't like to lose it.
this will damage your relation with Y and possibly X for a long time. having guests in a common space without roommate consent is a not a good idea, but throwing a fit is surely worse.
So Z has been around for a week (and you guys have only been around her a few days). This is not unreasonable and most 20 year olds would not think anything of having a friend over for this much time. Something approaching 2 weeks can be legitimately questioned.
If its a financial thing and Z is raising the expenses, then it seems fine to ask for something back. What this figure should be is debatable but this isn't a tax. Her being loaded should not be a factor. Her taking 1 hour showers and cooking 4 hour concoctions on the stove are the kind of things that should matter.
Not boyfriends/hookups - I don't really care about that
I'm not sure how its relevant whether the friend is involved with her or not. I don't think it makes sense to demand consent for a guest staying in Y's room for a single night (and with last-minute situations, this is often not possible).
How can my girlfriend and I approach this and avoid living in a stressful environment for the rest of the summer?
Talk to Y, explain gently your differences in personality if she hasn't caught on herself. If you're closer with X you might ask her opinion first ("Hey X, do you think its okay for me to propose so and so to Y").
My girlfriend and I are both introverts and need space and privacy, while Y and X are very extroverted.
If the problem goes beyond the visits and your peace of mind is threatened by your roommates, then you might consider moving out. Having relaxed roommates means you need to be more tolerant, but also that you are treated likewise.
posted by breadfruit at 9:37 AM on July 23, 2009
this will damage your relation with Y and possibly X for a long time. having guests in a common space without roommate consent is a not a good idea, but throwing a fit is surely worse.
So Z has been around for a week (and you guys have only been around her a few days). This is not unreasonable and most 20 year olds would not think anything of having a friend over for this much time. Something approaching 2 weeks can be legitimately questioned.
If its a financial thing and Z is raising the expenses, then it seems fine to ask for something back. What this figure should be is debatable but this isn't a tax. Her being loaded should not be a factor. Her taking 1 hour showers and cooking 4 hour concoctions on the stove are the kind of things that should matter.
Not boyfriends/hookups - I don't really care about that
I'm not sure how its relevant whether the friend is involved with her or not. I don't think it makes sense to demand consent for a guest staying in Y's room for a single night (and with last-minute situations, this is often not possible).
How can my girlfriend and I approach this and avoid living in a stressful environment for the rest of the summer?
Talk to Y, explain gently your differences in personality if she hasn't caught on herself. If you're closer with X you might ask her opinion first ("Hey X, do you think its okay for me to propose so and so to Y").
My girlfriend and I are both introverts and need space and privacy, while Y and X are very extroverted.
If the problem goes beyond the visits and your peace of mind is threatened by your roommates, then you might consider moving out. Having relaxed roommates means you need to be more tolerant, but also that you are treated likewise.
posted by breadfruit at 9:37 AM on July 23, 2009
At a minimum, we're going to be asking Y to cover Z's portion of electricity and hot water. But we really want Z to leave.
Is this about money or not? It sounds like it's really not. Taking this approach willl sound petty and will weaken your argument. Seriously, cover Z's portion of electricity and hot water? How would you even quantify that sanely? Presumably you don't extract an extra fee from any roommates who take an extra shower, so you're probably accepting slightly uneven usage anyway. Roommate Y could just say "fine, I usually take 20 min showers. To make up for Z, she and I will instead each take 10-minute showers."
My girlfriend and I are both introverts and need space and privacy, while Y and X are very extroverted. Complicating matters, it appears that X and Z became friends while we were gone, so now we feel beset on all sides. We feel uncomfortable in our own home. The added stress is exacerbating my girlfriend's anxiety disorder. I was laid off the day Z arrived, so I don't have work as an outlet
Instead of seething and stewing and feeling beset, just communicate. You need a meeting with X and Y about house rules regarding guests. Z should not be present for this discussion, it has nothing to do with her. Y should have cleared having guests before inviting a friend to stay, she should do so in the future. Approved couch-surfers may only stay for 2 nights (or whatever), longer-term guests must stay in a bedroom.
It's okay to say that you're upset about it. I would recommend being a little careful with your tone when you talk about things like your gf's anxiety and your discomfort "in your own home." These are completely legitimate issues, but if you're already anxious about this discussion, this can come off as very strident. And then X and Y will be defensive too, and then everyone's defensive and uncomfortable.
Don't think of it as a confrontation. They're not attacking you, this is a case of misaligned expectations. Look for a compromise.
posted by desuetude at 9:37 AM on July 23, 2009 [3 favorites]
Is this about money or not? It sounds like it's really not. Taking this approach willl sound petty and will weaken your argument. Seriously, cover Z's portion of electricity and hot water? How would you even quantify that sanely? Presumably you don't extract an extra fee from any roommates who take an extra shower, so you're probably accepting slightly uneven usage anyway. Roommate Y could just say "fine, I usually take 20 min showers. To make up for Z, she and I will instead each take 10-minute showers."
My girlfriend and I are both introverts and need space and privacy, while Y and X are very extroverted. Complicating matters, it appears that X and Z became friends while we were gone, so now we feel beset on all sides. We feel uncomfortable in our own home. The added stress is exacerbating my girlfriend's anxiety disorder. I was laid off the day Z arrived, so I don't have work as an outlet
Instead of seething and stewing and feeling beset, just communicate. You need a meeting with X and Y about house rules regarding guests. Z should not be present for this discussion, it has nothing to do with her. Y should have cleared having guests before inviting a friend to stay, she should do so in the future. Approved couch-surfers may only stay for 2 nights (or whatever), longer-term guests must stay in a bedroom.
It's okay to say that you're upset about it. I would recommend being a little careful with your tone when you talk about things like your gf's anxiety and your discomfort "in your own home." These are completely legitimate issues, but if you're already anxious about this discussion, this can come off as very strident. And then X and Y will be defensive too, and then everyone's defensive and uncomfortable.
Don't think of it as a confrontation. They're not attacking you, this is a case of misaligned expectations. Look for a compromise.
posted by desuetude at 9:37 AM on July 23, 2009 [3 favorites]
As someone who needs a lot of space, privacy, and clear understandings of what happens in shared living space, I totally get where you're coming from. But you're moving out next month? In that case, consider whether it's worth having this kind of conversation if you're leaving the apartment in five weeks.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 9:39 AM on July 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 9:39 AM on July 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Sorry, not next month, Sept. 1! But still.
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 9:39 AM on July 23, 2009
posted by foxy_hedgehog at 9:39 AM on July 23, 2009
Hmm,
While I totally agree that a little notice is always nice, and that this is a relatively long stay in a common area, to a certain degree, them's the breaks with roommates.
If you were planning on staying here for the rest of the year, I would think this was worth talking about and establishing some policies, but for only a month and a half, I'm not sure it's worth the energy.
If you're certain that she's leaving on July 26, I'd either leave it be, or include a low-key request for some utilities.
In lots of aggravating situations like this, I've found it really, really important to weigh the real cost of whatever is annoying me against the emotional cost of being upset. It wears on you to be angry and annoyed with people, especially the people you live with. I have always been happy when I erred in the direction of just letting things go.
This doesn't mean you can't mention the utilities thing, just that if you're not really going to live with these people much longer, there's no reason to adjudicate what's reasonable. Don't hold a grudge, just move on.
posted by mercredi at 9:43 AM on July 23, 2009
While I totally agree that a little notice is always nice, and that this is a relatively long stay in a common area, to a certain degree, them's the breaks with roommates.
If you were planning on staying here for the rest of the year, I would think this was worth talking about and establishing some policies, but for only a month and a half, I'm not sure it's worth the energy.
If you're certain that she's leaving on July 26, I'd either leave it be, or include a low-key request for some utilities.
In lots of aggravating situations like this, I've found it really, really important to weigh the real cost of whatever is annoying me against the emotional cost of being upset. It wears on you to be angry and annoyed with people, especially the people you live with. I have always been happy when I erred in the direction of just letting things go.
This doesn't mean you can't mention the utilities thing, just that if you're not really going to live with these people much longer, there's no reason to adjudicate what's reasonable. Don't hold a grudge, just move on.
posted by mercredi at 9:43 AM on July 23, 2009
Actually, since you are moving on September 1st, I'd say you have solved the real problem (hooray) and when you let your roommates know about this, I'd also mention the "And hey since we'll be packing and things will be crazy can we agree to no more long term guests for the Summer?" and then define what you mean.
Even if you have one solid month of the Polyphonic Spreee living in your living room, you and your GF can get through it, and it might be better just developing a sense of humor towards this wacky situation than to have any discussion at all about it that's not just devoted towards next month's expectations. I'd also pass on the money thing, maybe ask Z to make/buy dinner one night and call it a wash.
posted by jessamyn at 9:45 AM on July 23, 2009
Even if you have one solid month of the Polyphonic Spreee living in your living room, you and your GF can get through it, and it might be better just developing a sense of humor towards this wacky situation than to have any discussion at all about it that's not just devoted towards next month's expectations. I'd also pass on the money thing, maybe ask Z to make/buy dinner one night and call it a wash.
posted by jessamyn at 9:45 AM on July 23, 2009
Given that the guest will leave in three days, and you are moving out in September, just let it go.
posted by paulg at 9:57 AM on July 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by paulg at 9:57 AM on July 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
At a minimum, we're going to be asking Y to cover Z's portion of electricity and hot water.
Don't. Just...No. You’ll look petty and ridiculous and this will cloud the validity of your position.
posted by applemeat at 9:59 AM on July 23, 2009
Don't. Just...No. You’ll look petty and ridiculous and this will cloud the validity of your position.
posted by applemeat at 9:59 AM on July 23, 2009
As a fellow introvert with six (six!) roommates, I definitely know what it's like to have people coming and crashing on the sofa/with roommates/etc. However, I can't help but think you guys are having a not-entirely-proportional reaction to this (admittedly shitty) situation.
Common courtesy dictates that roommates make it clear when visitors are coming to town. Common courtesy dictates that, unless there's a really good reason or some sort of compensation - jessamyn's "have her make dinner" idea is awesome - those visitors don't stay for longer than a week.
However, you guys have your own room. Ostensibly, guest Z does not enter that room. A bedroom is the only space in a shared living situation where a roommate is guaranteed that things will be exactly as they want them to be.
This whole "I have a violent temper, my girlfriend's anxiety disorder is worsening, I'm uncomfortable in my own home" thing smacks of you guys martyring yourselves. I can guarantee you that you're making this way worse for yourself than you need to. Everyone else seems cool with Z, and while that obviously doesn't make it right, it indicates that Z is theoretically possible to tolerate as a guest.
Z leaves in three days. Have a conversation with Y then about future houseguests and lay down some rules, just in case someone "drops by" again. Stay in your room more and get your introvert time there. Release the anger and stress, if at all possible, because it's not doing anything but hurting you both.
posted by harperpitt at 10:03 AM on July 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Common courtesy dictates that roommates make it clear when visitors are coming to town. Common courtesy dictates that, unless there's a really good reason or some sort of compensation - jessamyn's "have her make dinner" idea is awesome - those visitors don't stay for longer than a week.
However, you guys have your own room. Ostensibly, guest Z does not enter that room. A bedroom is the only space in a shared living situation where a roommate is guaranteed that things will be exactly as they want them to be.
This whole "I have a violent temper, my girlfriend's anxiety disorder is worsening, I'm uncomfortable in my own home" thing smacks of you guys martyring yourselves. I can guarantee you that you're making this way worse for yourself than you need to. Everyone else seems cool with Z, and while that obviously doesn't make it right, it indicates that Z is theoretically possible to tolerate as a guest.
Z leaves in three days. Have a conversation with Y then about future houseguests and lay down some rules, just in case someone "drops by" again. Stay in your room more and get your introvert time there. Release the anger and stress, if at all possible, because it's not doing anything but hurting you both.
posted by harperpitt at 10:03 AM on July 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Given that you are moving out for September 1, which is in 40 days, I would just let it go. And asking for a week's worth of money for electricity is absurd.
In the future, if you find yourselves in shared living spaces again, make sure that all parties agree to a guest policy before moving in. Also consider while doing this that a week is not in any way a long term for most people in the US.
posted by crankylex at 10:11 AM on July 23, 2009
In the future, if you find yourselves in shared living spaces again, make sure that all parties agree to a guest policy before moving in. Also consider while doing this that a week is not in any way a long term for most people in the US.
posted by crankylex at 10:11 AM on July 23, 2009
Best answer: Yes, what Y did was really shitty - you really shouldn't have to have it stated up-front that its not ok to invite guests to sleep in your shared living space for over a week without even asking your other room-mates.
However, Z is leaving in 3 days and you're moving out in a little over a month, there's really no point doing or saying anything - particularly that bit about the share of the utilities. That's just being petty, presumably because you're (quite rightly) miffed about this new unannounced roomie.
posted by missmagenta at 10:29 AM on July 23, 2009
However, Z is leaving in 3 days and you're moving out in a little over a month, there's really no point doing or saying anything - particularly that bit about the share of the utilities. That's just being petty, presumably because you're (quite rightly) miffed about this new unannounced roomie.
posted by missmagenta at 10:29 AM on July 23, 2009
I agree with letting it go (given that Z is leaving in 3 days and you're moving out soon) and maybe this perspective will help: I am an introvert and have several extroverted friends. Extroverts feel good being around people and do not generally understand how hard it can be on introverts. From the way you describe the situation, I think it's not malicious or inconsiderate--they're just oblivious to the idea that having a house guest could put that much of a strain on someone. My extroverted friends certainly didn't get it until I had a conversation about it when things came up.
Anyway, I'm glad you guys are getting your own place--that was a great decision.
posted by Kimberly at 11:10 AM on July 23, 2009
Anyway, I'm glad you guys are getting your own place--that was a great decision.
posted by Kimberly at 11:10 AM on July 23, 2009
The last time I lived with a roommate, she invited her younger brother to crash on our couch "for a while". A while, apparently, is six months. Six months in which he dealt drugs out of my apartment, let his hedgehog (!) run wild all over the place, stole from my jewelry box, and ate everything he could get his hands on, regardless if he was specifically told "Hey, I am saving that for my lunch tomorrow, please do not eat it" or not.
This? Is not a long-term houseguest. THAT was a long-term houseguest, and had he had a legal paying job it would have been more than acceptable for me to demand that he pay utilities.
Z has been there since the 15th, if I'm reading your post correctly. She leaves on the 26th, which is 3 days away. It's not really cool that your roommate didn't clear the stay with everyone before Z showed up, but you did mention that it was a "sudden arrival", so maybe your roommate didn't actually know her friend was showing up. If Z is eating your food and not replacing it (or paying you for it) or stealing things out of your room, you have every right to complain. You probably also have the right to assume Z has money based on where her family lives and the fact that she goes to school in France. But there are these things called scholarships and grants, and there are also poor people in OC. Trying to soak Z for your utility bills because you think she's loaded is kind of a dick move on your part.
Since there was no policy on how long guests can stay, you don't really get to lay down the law to Y. All you can do is either suck it up and deal until Z leaves, and then have a house meeting to institute some ground rules for the remaining month that you live there, or you can get some gumption and ask Z to leave.
posted by palomar at 12:57 PM on July 23, 2009
This? Is not a long-term houseguest. THAT was a long-term houseguest, and had he had a legal paying job it would have been more than acceptable for me to demand that he pay utilities.
Z has been there since the 15th, if I'm reading your post correctly. She leaves on the 26th, which is 3 days away. It's not really cool that your roommate didn't clear the stay with everyone before Z showed up, but you did mention that it was a "sudden arrival", so maybe your roommate didn't actually know her friend was showing up. If Z is eating your food and not replacing it (or paying you for it) or stealing things out of your room, you have every right to complain. You probably also have the right to assume Z has money based on where her family lives and the fact that she goes to school in France. But there are these things called scholarships and grants, and there are also poor people in OC. Trying to soak Z for your utility bills because you think she's loaded is kind of a dick move on your part.
Since there was no policy on how long guests can stay, you don't really get to lay down the law to Y. All you can do is either suck it up and deal until Z leaves, and then have a house meeting to institute some ground rules for the remaining month that you live there, or you can get some gumption and ask Z to leave.
posted by palomar at 12:57 PM on July 23, 2009
Just let it go, man. There's some times when you just have to grin and bear it; that's the problem with dealing and living with other people. I'm an introvert too and I totally understand where you're coming from, but would you rather feel like your anger and her anxiety are justified now -- or would you rather keep X and Y as friends for the long term?
Everyone else said to disregard the "orange county and school in paris = loaded" -- first of all, they're right that you can't just make that assumption. Why? Orange county, by and large, can currently mean "my parents are living in their SUV after they lost their jobs in the mortgage industry collapse and their house got foreclosed and I've gone from spending vacation periods on the Mediterranean to taking out massive loans and couch-surfing with friends because my parents don't have a couch I can sleep on."
posted by SpecialK at 5:05 PM on July 23, 2009
Everyone else said to disregard the "orange county and school in paris = loaded" -- first of all, they're right that you can't just make that assumption. Why? Orange county, by and large, can currently mean "my parents are living in their SUV after they lost their jobs in the mortgage industry collapse and their house got foreclosed and I've gone from spending vacation periods on the Mediterranean to taking out massive loans and couch-surfing with friends because my parents don't have a couch I can sleep on."
posted by SpecialK at 5:05 PM on July 23, 2009
Set out the house rules explicitly and have agreement from all parties - this was done beautifully at a famous London Kiwi house called Flat 1. Everyone that stayed had to pay a set amount - it was a great flat and they had plenty of house guests over the 15 years or so it was around.
If you were lucky enough to actually live there - you basically lived rent free.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 5:25 PM on July 23, 2009
If you were lucky enough to actually live there - you basically lived rent free.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 5:25 PM on July 23, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
The relative wealth of Z should play no part in the discussion, btw.
posted by scarykarrey at 9:14 AM on July 23, 2009 [6 favorites]