Non-heteronormative version of "opposite sex"?
July 21, 2009 7:47 PM Subscribe
Is there a concise non-heteronormative version of the phrase "the opposite sex"?
While talking to a friend today, I was about to say something like "when you are talking to a person of the opposite sex, blah blah blah" and realized that what overgeneralized nonsense I was spewing was applicable whenever one is with a person one might be interested in. Is there a general term for that?
While talking to a friend today, I was about to say something like "when you are talking to a person of the opposite sex, blah blah blah" and realized that what overgeneralized nonsense I was spewing was applicable whenever one is with a person one might be interested in. Is there a general term for that?
I've always heard "the preferred sex". It requires the correct context, but gets the point across.
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 7:50 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by He Is Only The Imposter at 7:50 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
(Any of these phases would be... uh... mononormative? That is - they assume that while it's not necessarily the norm to be attracted to the opposite sex, it *is* the norm to have one "prefered" sex you're attacted to, which is an assumption that precludes bisexuality...)
posted by ManInSuit at 7:53 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by ManInSuit at 7:53 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
For the example you cite, "the sex you're attracted to" works.
posted by ottereroticist at 7:59 PM on July 21, 2009
posted by ottereroticist at 7:59 PM on July 21, 2009
Person of another gender? There are two sexes, but many genders.
Sex usually refers to biological distinctions whereas gender refers to the way one constructs her sexual identity and imagines and fulfills her sexual desires in the context of a society. That's a very rough, top of the head explanation of gender. Someone will come along and explain it better than me.
However, I think that "person of another gender" solves the problem for you.
posted by vincele at 8:01 PM on July 21, 2009
Sex usually refers to biological distinctions whereas gender refers to the way one constructs her sexual identity and imagines and fulfills her sexual desires in the context of a society. That's a very rough, top of the head explanation of gender. Someone will come along and explain it better than me.
However, I think that "person of another gender" solves the problem for you.
posted by vincele at 8:01 PM on July 21, 2009
"the appropriate sex"
posted by faster than a speeding bulette at 8:06 PM on July 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by faster than a speeding bulette at 8:06 PM on July 21, 2009 [3 favorites]
Well, you've sorta given a simple and non-tongue-twisting answer in the question itself:
"when you are talking to a person you might be interested in, blah blah blah"
"when you are talking to a person you might be attracted to, blah blah blah"
posted by flug at 8:06 PM on July 21, 2009
"when you are talking to a person you might be interested in, blah blah blah"
"when you are talking to a person you might be attracted to, blah blah blah"
posted by flug at 8:06 PM on July 21, 2009
How about you say 'someone you're attracted to' and skip any reference to sex or gender? You'd be guilty of dangling your participles in public, but maybe the person you're talking to likes that kind of thing.
posted by echo target at 8:06 PM on July 21, 2009 [9 favorites]
posted by echo target at 8:06 PM on July 21, 2009 [9 favorites]
"The desired gender" encompasses the flexibility of gender mentioned by vincele AND the possibility that another gender may be desired at another time as mentioned by ManInSuit.
posted by amethysts at 8:07 PM on July 21, 2009
posted by amethysts at 8:07 PM on July 21, 2009
"the inappropriate sex" followed by *waggling eyebrows*
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 8:19 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Cat Pie Hurts at 8:19 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
I would say "a desired gender" rather than "the desired gender," as that would allow for multiple desirable genders.
posted by pemberkins at 8:20 PM on July 21, 2009
posted by pemberkins at 8:20 PM on July 21, 2009
On Usenet, we used to say MOTOS (member of the opposite sex) and MOTAS (member of the appropriate sex), MOTSS (member of the same sex). Indeed, there is soc.motss the newsgroup.
posted by Obscure Reference at 8:26 PM on July 21, 2009
posted by Obscure Reference at 8:26 PM on July 21, 2009
Its not nonsense--its the way people still basically talk.
But in most contexts like you are discussing, I would usually say "somebody you're attracted to"
posted by Ironmouth at 8:28 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
But in most contexts like you are discussing, I would usually say "somebody you're attracted to"
posted by Ironmouth at 8:28 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you're going to dangle your participles, go all the way and say "a person you'd like to ..." and leave the context to inflection.
Or just "the person who makes your participles dangle" and watch confusion begin.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:39 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Or just "the person who makes your participles dangle" and watch confusion begin.
posted by Lemurrhea at 8:39 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
Ahem. There's nothing wrong with "...somebody you're attracted to." Furthermore, it's not an example of a dangling participle, contrary to popular belief. A dangling particple looks like this: "Grabbing a chocolate bar, he told his brother to bring their lunches." This is incorrect because it's not clear who's grabbing the chocolate bar.
posted by smorange at 8:55 PM on July 21, 2009
posted by smorange at 8:55 PM on July 21, 2009
I can think of about 486 ways to describe a person of interest. Some of them lewd, some of them funny, some of them nauseatingly twee. (Nothing as lewd as "the person who makes your participles dangle" of course - there are lines even I will not cross.)
And what if someone happens to be trying to woo a couple? Conversation requires creativity. Have fun with it.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:21 PM on July 21, 2009
And what if someone happens to be trying to woo a couple? Conversation requires creativity. Have fun with it.
posted by Lesser Shrew at 9:21 PM on July 21, 2009
"...when you are talking to a person of a different gender/sex" seems to fit the bill.
posted by Piscean at 9:30 PM on July 21, 2009
posted by Piscean at 9:30 PM on July 21, 2009
As a bisexual dude, I usually say "the appropriate sex". It never occurred to me that it was uni-normative ("uni" is the complement of "bi", not "mono"). It still doesn't. Women, you see, are of the appropriate sex to do vagina-related things with. Men are of the appropriate sex to do penis-related things with.
I don't like "an appropriate sex", 'cause it has this bizarre implication to me that there are a very large number of sexes. There are really only 2.5: male-identity, female-identity, and genderfuck. And genderfuck still requires contrast against the binary "natural" sexes in order to have its effect.
"The opposite sex" does grate on my nerves a little, though. Not enough to really get annoyed even, but a little.
posted by Netzapper at 10:33 PM on July 21, 2009
I don't like "an appropriate sex", 'cause it has this bizarre implication to me that there are a very large number of sexes. There are really only 2.5: male-identity, female-identity, and genderfuck. And genderfuck still requires contrast against the binary "natural" sexes in order to have its effect.
"The opposite sex" does grate on my nerves a little, though. Not enough to really get annoyed even, but a little.
posted by Netzapper at 10:33 PM on July 21, 2009
"someone/someones of the opposite sex, same sex, genderfuck, none, or a mixture thereof" I say this all the time
posted by Damn That Television at 11:17 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Damn That Television at 11:17 PM on July 21, 2009 [1 favorite]
The sexes aren't, you know, actually opposed in any way. So it's always a somewhat daft thing to say.
posted by Casuistry at 11:25 PM on July 21, 2009
posted by Casuistry at 11:25 PM on July 21, 2009
Sex usually refers to biological distinctions whereas gender refers to the way one constructs her sexual identity and imagines and fulfills her sexual desires in the context of a society.... I think that "person of another gender" solves the problem for you.
That's a pretty good definition, but you're overlooking the fact that some folks are attracted to people of their own gender.
posted by ottereroticist at 11:26 PM on July 21, 2009
That's a pretty good definition, but you're overlooking the fact that some folks are attracted to people of their own gender.
posted by ottereroticist at 11:26 PM on July 21, 2009
Very true, ottereroticist. Incidentally, your name is strangely appropriate for this thread! (I'm not going to utter the horrid in-jokey "Exxxxsterical.")
I'm now on board with the "person I'm interested in/attracted to" answers.
Dangling participles sound most natural in the sample conversation and in most others. So unless you want to make a point about sex/gender distinctions, go for what doesn't trip up the rhythm of the conversation and of course, what doesn't offend.
posted by vincele at 1:12 AM on July 22, 2009
I'm now on board with the "person I'm interested in/attracted to" answers.
Dangling participles sound most natural in the sample conversation and in most others. So unless you want to make a point about sex/gender distinctions, go for what doesn't trip up the rhythm of the conversation and of course, what doesn't offend.
posted by vincele at 1:12 AM on July 22, 2009
i would say "appropriate sex", but this is partly because of the influence of USENET, where first there was the acronym "motss" (member of the same sex) which led to the later "motas" (member of the appropriate sex).
posted by rmd1023 at 4:04 AM on July 22, 2009
posted by rmd1023 at 4:04 AM on July 22, 2009
Dangling participles sound most natural in the sample conversation and in most others.
Again, it's not a dangling participle. "To be attracted to" is a phrasal verb. Thus, the sentence "...someone you like" and "...someone you're attracted to" are, for the purposes of this discussion, exactly equivalent. For some reason, though, people think the latter is a dangling participle, while the former is not. Neither one of them is.
posted by smorange at 5:26 AM on July 22, 2009
Again, it's not a dangling participle. "To be attracted to" is a phrasal verb. Thus, the sentence "...someone you like" and "...someone you're attracted to" are, for the purposes of this discussion, exactly equivalent. For some reason, though, people think the latter is a dangling participle, while the former is not. Neither one of them is.
posted by smorange at 5:26 AM on July 22, 2009
What they actually think it is (though they're calling it the wrong thing) is ending a sentence with a preposition. But that's a stupid rule, derived from Latin, that should never have been applied to English. There are some things up with which I shall not put. (And this sloppy grammar talk is one of them.)
posted by rikschell at 6:06 AM on July 22, 2009
posted by rikschell at 6:06 AM on July 22, 2009
In many cases, "love interest" or "potential love interest" could work, depending on the context, and how cheekily you said it.
posted by lampoil at 6:33 AM on July 22, 2009
posted by lampoil at 6:33 AM on July 22, 2009
I'm now on board with the "person I'm interested in/attracted to" answers. &c.
The original question doesn't imply actual attraction to the being of X sex/gender, etc., but rather its being of the appropriate gender that could be an object of attraction.
posted by signal at 6:36 AM on July 22, 2009
The original question doesn't imply actual attraction to the being of X sex/gender, etc., but rather its being of the appropriate gender that could be an object of attraction.
posted by signal at 6:36 AM on July 22, 2009
I'll chime in that "opposite" isn't completely wrong. Some of its meanings are perfectly appropriate for same-sex couples: across from or facing; in a complementary dramatic role to; located directly across from something else or from each other.
posted by alms at 6:44 AM on July 22, 2009
posted by alms at 6:44 AM on July 22, 2009
That one.
This may not work in certain political circles, so be warned.
posted by trotter at 7:18 AM on July 22, 2009
This may not work in certain political circles, so be warned.
posted by trotter at 7:18 AM on July 22, 2009
Netzapper's got it. "Of the appropriate sex" works just fine, unless you want to rephrase as "person to whom you're attracted."
I'll chime in that "opposite" isn't completely wrong. Some of its meanings are perfectly appropriate for same-sex couples: across from or facing; in a complementary dramatic role to; located directly across from something else or from each other.
Sure, if you're riffing wittily and practicing your entendres. Otherwise, notsomuch.
posted by desuetude at 7:45 AM on July 22, 2009
I'll chime in that "opposite" isn't completely wrong. Some of its meanings are perfectly appropriate for same-sex couples: across from or facing; in a complementary dramatic role to; located directly across from something else or from each other.
Sure, if you're riffing wittily and practicing your entendres. Otherwise, notsomuch.
posted by desuetude at 7:45 AM on July 22, 2009
There are, unfortunately, serious problems of meaning with most of these suggestions.
"Person to whom you're attracted," is very different from "person of the opposite sex." Just because someone is of the opposite sex (or same sex, as the case may be), that does not mean you are attracted to them. You could, after all, be wanting to talk about "a person of the opposite sex who you're not attracted to at all, but who is attracted to you."
Similarly, "person of the appropriate sex" already assumes that the interlocutor is looking for someone to hook up with or date or something. They are appropriate for getting it on. But we don't know that getting it on is desired. It would be closer to say something like, "person of potential sex" or "person you could potentially date," but those both feel kind of awkward to me.
posted by alms at 7:56 AM on July 22, 2009
"Person to whom you're attracted," is very different from "person of the opposite sex." Just because someone is of the opposite sex (or same sex, as the case may be), that does not mean you are attracted to them. You could, after all, be wanting to talk about "a person of the opposite sex who you're not attracted to at all, but who is attracted to you."
Similarly, "person of the appropriate sex" already assumes that the interlocutor is looking for someone to hook up with or date or something. They are appropriate for getting it on. But we don't know that getting it on is desired. It would be closer to say something like, "person of potential sex" or "person you could potentially date," but those both feel kind of awkward to me.
posted by alms at 7:56 AM on July 22, 2009
Well, alms, presumably if they are discussing a specific person, they would not need to use generalities like "person of the opposite sex". Similarly, in the situations you describe, we could either be specific: "A woman was hitting on me" or general: "A person was hitting on me." I don't see why "A person of the opposite sex was hitting on me" would be any more or less descriptive.
posted by muddgirl at 10:43 AM on July 22, 2009
posted by muddgirl at 10:43 AM on July 22, 2009
I don't understand your point, muddgirl. The op asked for an alternative way to say "when you're talking to a person of the opposite sex..." I pointed out that the suggested alternative "when you're talking to a person you're attracted to..." has a very different meaning. That's all.
posted by alms at 5:54 PM on July 22, 2009
posted by alms at 5:54 PM on July 22, 2009
N-thing "appropiate sex" because it works as a drop-in replacement in the type of sentences you would work "opposite sex" into.
posted by kandinski at 7:30 PM on July 22, 2009
posted by kandinski at 7:30 PM on July 22, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by jeb at 7:50 PM on July 21, 2009 [2 favorites]