Help me save my marriage
July 15, 2009 10:58 AM Subscribe
Help- how do I save my marriage! Long description and details after the jump.
Mrs. Bones and I have been married for 3 years, have lived together for a total of 6. Last month I went through a huge depressive cycle (was diagnosed with depression 4 years ago and have been on 60 mg of cymbalta and stable for the past 3 ½ years).
It started with me drinking (not to excess- just 2 or 3 drinks a night, but every night) and hiding the growing issues of depression from my wife. It finally came out in an explosion of emotions and wrong words.
She got incredibly upset that I had lied to her about being “alright” over the past month, even though I feel like I was being controlled by my depression and not by reasonable thought.
Since then she has made it clear that we ARE, in fact, a million miles away from each other and that she doesn’t know when, or if, she will ever get past this.
I am seeing a therapist, by her demands, twice a week instead of once, am seeing my psychiatrist regularly and have switched medications and am back on a semi-regular workout routine.
I guess I need advice and help more than any answers (this is my first question btw so please go easy on me if I rambled and for not asking a straight up question).
Mrs. Bones and I have been married for 3 years, have lived together for a total of 6. Last month I went through a huge depressive cycle (was diagnosed with depression 4 years ago and have been on 60 mg of cymbalta and stable for the past 3 ½ years).
It started with me drinking (not to excess- just 2 or 3 drinks a night, but every night) and hiding the growing issues of depression from my wife. It finally came out in an explosion of emotions and wrong words.
She got incredibly upset that I had lied to her about being “alright” over the past month, even though I feel like I was being controlled by my depression and not by reasonable thought.
Since then she has made it clear that we ARE, in fact, a million miles away from each other and that she doesn’t know when, or if, she will ever get past this.
I am seeing a therapist, by her demands, twice a week instead of once, am seeing my psychiatrist regularly and have switched medications and am back on a semi-regular workout routine.
I guess I need advice and help more than any answers (this is my first question btw so please go easy on me if I rambled and for not asking a straight up question).
You are ill. Your wife is angry at you being ill. If the marriage is to be saved, she needs to start supporting you emotionally. There is no other way for this to work.
posted by Ironmouth at 11:04 AM on July 15, 2009 [8 favorites]
posted by Ironmouth at 11:04 AM on July 15, 2009 [8 favorites]
Response by poster: Just to let you all know, she says she will not go to therapy for her or for "us" until she feels that she can trust me again. She has not defined what trust means other than she feels that I have somewhat returned to my normal self.
Shedevil- you are right, I need to own my actions and my depression and not scapegoat. She feels like I am doing that now.
Ironmouth- you hit my problem right on the head. I don't feel like she is supporting me emotionally, though she keeps saying "well, I didn't leave you, or ask you to leave, did I?" I'm not sure I consider that real support.
posted by TheBones at 11:13 AM on July 15, 2009
Shedevil- you are right, I need to own my actions and my depression and not scapegoat. She feels like I am doing that now.
Ironmouth- you hit my problem right on the head. I don't feel like she is supporting me emotionally, though she keeps saying "well, I didn't leave you, or ask you to leave, did I?" I'm not sure I consider that real support.
posted by TheBones at 11:13 AM on July 15, 2009
I would think marriage counseling is a must here. If she is unwilling to go, perhaps she may have checked out of the marriage already.
Sorry you are going through this.....good luck!
posted by PsuDab93 at 11:19 AM on July 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
Sorry you are going through this.....good luck!
posted by PsuDab93 at 11:19 AM on July 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
She has not defined what trust means other than she feels that I have somewhat returned to my normal self.
If your wife were writing about this experience, what would she say that you aren't saying?
On the face of it, it sounds kind of heartless to need to forgive you for being depressed and checking out for a month, after so many years together.
So I'm wondering, when she says 'trust' does she mean 'show me you're not an alcoholic' or 'show me you won't hide things from me'? Do you have a history of hiding things from her? Is there some other history we'd need to know to offer advice other than what's here?
Because her response sounds pretty cold. And unless she tends toward coldness, I'd say she sounds pissed off, which is an odd reaction to the suffering of a loved one.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:20 AM on July 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
If your wife were writing about this experience, what would she say that you aren't saying?
On the face of it, it sounds kind of heartless to need to forgive you for being depressed and checking out for a month, after so many years together.
So I'm wondering, when she says 'trust' does she mean 'show me you're not an alcoholic' or 'show me you won't hide things from me'? Do you have a history of hiding things from her? Is there some other history we'd need to know to offer advice other than what's here?
Because her response sounds pretty cold. And unless she tends toward coldness, I'd say she sounds pissed off, which is an odd reaction to the suffering of a loved one.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 11:20 AM on July 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
one thing to keep in mind: many people treat depression, subconsciously, with alcohol. your nightly drinking which hardly seems problematic to me, but i'm an alcoholic & even after almost 20 years sober my 'drink-o-meter' is a little off might be your attempt to supplement the cymbalta. perhaps it's time to look at another depression med?
your wife doesn't sound supportive at all. does she by chance have a family history of drinking, depression, or substance abuse? not necessarily in her, but in parents, siblings, other close relatives? a history like that can mean the person has a pre-determined response to certain triggers, and these responses might be harsher or more strident than someone without that history. if that's the case, perhaps she should consider some version of al-anon or adult children of alcoholics (acoa) for herself. because she's most definitely carrying around her own baggage in that scenerio.
good luck. and you did just fine for your first post ; )
posted by msconduct at 11:22 AM on July 15, 2009
your wife doesn't sound supportive at all. does she by chance have a family history of drinking, depression, or substance abuse? not necessarily in her, but in parents, siblings, other close relatives? a history like that can mean the person has a pre-determined response to certain triggers, and these responses might be harsher or more strident than someone without that history. if that's the case, perhaps she should consider some version of al-anon or adult children of alcoholics (acoa) for herself. because she's most definitely carrying around her own baggage in that scenerio.
good luck. and you did just fine for your first post ; )
posted by msconduct at 11:22 AM on July 15, 2009
Best answer: You are ill. Your wife is angry at you being ill. If the marriage is to be saved, she needs to start supporting you emotionally. There is no other way for this to work.
I think this is true to a point, and untrue to a point. The percentage of her anger that is "how dare you be depressed?" is just negative and marriage-destroying, and she needs to understand that and move past it. The percentage of her anger that is "I'm mad that you made such stupid decisions in response to your depression" has more validity.*
I also think TheBones's point is well-taken, in that TheBones is working hard on dealing with the issues, and has moved away from the self-destructive behaviors, but it seems like TheBones's wife isn't getting past that.
This is the kind of situation where couples counseling can be really, really helpful: when both parties feel angry and hurt and misunderstood.
* See, my own take on this is this: Depression is a serious illness, but it's rare that it affects your mental capacity to the point where you really can't be held responsible for your behavior. At least in my own experience, depression has effected my perceptions and my ability to function and even my cognition to some extent, but when I was doing self-destructive or other-destructive things, I still knew better--I just didn't give a damn. I think that people's anger toward me about those things has some validity, whereas being angry at, say, a schizophrenic for acting on her hallucinated reality is pointless and misguided.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:23 AM on July 15, 2009 [5 favorites]
I think this is true to a point, and untrue to a point. The percentage of her anger that is "how dare you be depressed?" is just negative and marriage-destroying, and she needs to understand that and move past it. The percentage of her anger that is "I'm mad that you made such stupid decisions in response to your depression" has more validity.*
I also think TheBones's point is well-taken, in that TheBones is working hard on dealing with the issues, and has moved away from the self-destructive behaviors, but it seems like TheBones's wife isn't getting past that.
This is the kind of situation where couples counseling can be really, really helpful: when both parties feel angry and hurt and misunderstood.
* See, my own take on this is this: Depression is a serious illness, but it's rare that it affects your mental capacity to the point where you really can't be held responsible for your behavior. At least in my own experience, depression has effected my perceptions and my ability to function and even my cognition to some extent, but when I was doing self-destructive or other-destructive things, I still knew better--I just didn't give a damn. I think that people's anger toward me about those things has some validity, whereas being angry at, say, a schizophrenic for acting on her hallucinated reality is pointless and misguided.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:23 AM on July 15, 2009 [5 favorites]
You poor thing. I am so sorry for you - you and your wife are a team, or should be, and you meet any obstacle head-on, together. Together. Just like if you were an army or whatever, you note the opponent and make a plan together to tackle it.
You didn't get depressed at her. Depression got you. She needs to have your back and help you with this. That's what I would do for my spouse.
It sounds like she is feeling somehow neglected. Her needs aren't being met and she is feeling as though, as I said above, you "got depressed AT her" or "TO her." Sounds like you guys need to talk and you need to listen to what she needs to feel loved and appropriately spouse-ified. Let her know (if it is, indeed the case) that you want to be close to her and what can you do to make that happen? Then do what she says (within reason).
I am so sorry you are dealing with this. You need your wife to be on your side. Can you let her know this in a non-critical way? Best of luck to you.
posted by Punctual at 11:25 AM on July 15, 2009 [3 favorites]
You didn't get depressed at her. Depression got you. She needs to have your back and help you with this. That's what I would do for my spouse.
It sounds like she is feeling somehow neglected. Her needs aren't being met and she is feeling as though, as I said above, you "got depressed AT her" or "TO her." Sounds like you guys need to talk and you need to listen to what she needs to feel loved and appropriately spouse-ified. Let her know (if it is, indeed the case) that you want to be close to her and what can you do to make that happen? Then do what she says (within reason).
I am so sorry you are dealing with this. You need your wife to be on your side. Can you let her know this in a non-critical way? Best of luck to you.
posted by Punctual at 11:25 AM on July 15, 2009 [3 favorites]
I should say that I wouldn't suggest that three drinks per night was inherently problematic. However, the appropriate number of drinks to have per night with Cymbalta is zero, so three drinks is three over the health-safe limit, and three over the health-safe limit is a problem.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:25 AM on July 15, 2009
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:25 AM on July 15, 2009
I don't know- if after 4 years of sobriety your alcoholic husband decided to start drinking again, are you angry because he's an alcoholic? No. You're angry because he made a terrible choice he knew would affect both of you. Add lying to it and you've just added a whole slew of bad choices. (This is just a comparison- I'm not saying the OP is an alcoholic.)
What other water is under the bridge? (For instance, before you went on meds, did you make everyone's life a living hell? Could she be afraid of a repeat performance?)
posted by small_ruminant at 11:27 AM on July 15, 2009
What other water is under the bridge? (For instance, before you went on meds, did you make everyone's life a living hell? Could she be afraid of a repeat performance?)
posted by small_ruminant at 11:27 AM on July 15, 2009
and three over the health-safe limit is a problem
And obviously, I mean "three over the health-safe limit every night for an extended stretch" here.
Seriously, TheBones, best wishes to you. I have been there myself. Exactly there.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:27 AM on July 15, 2009
And obviously, I mean "three over the health-safe limit every night for an extended stretch" here.
Seriously, TheBones, best wishes to you. I have been there myself. Exactly there.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:27 AM on July 15, 2009
Also (and I promise that this is my last comment), you can't save your marriage on your own. Your wife has her own work to do and her own responsibility to take for the marriage. I see you stepping up, but she has to step up also.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:29 AM on July 15, 2009
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:29 AM on July 15, 2009
Best answer: Here's the thing. Life is not fair, and people are not saints. You need to stop thinking in terms of what life owes you, and people owe you (rightly or wrongly). Instead, you must deal with reality as it is, rather than as it should be or you wish it were.
The fact is that people (perhaps your wife too) generally don't like being around someone who is not honest with them when asked direct questions. You were not honest with your wife wrt. having another depressive episode. Yes, I understand how hard it is (or accept it, since I can't truly understand it, not being you), but that doesn't change people's reaction - rightly or wrongly.
You should get help for your depression - it is a medical condition, and it is not your fault. But being in a marriage means you also have some obligations. One of which is to be honest with your life partner, the person who trusts you and the person closest to you. Don't lie about essential things. And I'm sure you know this, but alcohol is not a great drug for depressed people - it is a depressant itself, and even if it makes you initially feel better, the rebound makes it much worse down the road. I'd advise you to stop drinking entirely.
I'd approach you wife and admit that you screwed up because you really didn't want to tell her that you had another episode of depression (because you felt like you failed her and yourself, even if that's an irrational reaction etc.). Tell her that you love her and will never ever let her down again - and that you are stopping drinking entirely, 100%. Then keep your word.
Can she accept living with someone who is going to be "down" a lot of the time? It is not fun, and people are not saints. Some just can't hack it. If she can, treasure her. Can you in turn accept that she may not be as emotionally supportive as you'd wish? If you can, accept it.
The key to a successful marriage, is to have reasonable expectations. Don't think in terms of "should, ought to, why can't". She is who she is, and you are who you are. You live with the real person, not the imaginary one. As long as there are no deal breakers, there is wisdom in acceptance. I know how hard depression can be, from having friends struggle with it and sometimes lose to it. I wish you the best, and good luck.
posted by VikingSword at 11:31 AM on July 15, 2009 [10 favorites]
The fact is that people (perhaps your wife too) generally don't like being around someone who is not honest with them when asked direct questions. You were not honest with your wife wrt. having another depressive episode. Yes, I understand how hard it is (or accept it, since I can't truly understand it, not being you), but that doesn't change people's reaction - rightly or wrongly.
You should get help for your depression - it is a medical condition, and it is not your fault. But being in a marriage means you also have some obligations. One of which is to be honest with your life partner, the person who trusts you and the person closest to you. Don't lie about essential things. And I'm sure you know this, but alcohol is not a great drug for depressed people - it is a depressant itself, and even if it makes you initially feel better, the rebound makes it much worse down the road. I'd advise you to stop drinking entirely.
I'd approach you wife and admit that you screwed up because you really didn't want to tell her that you had another episode of depression (because you felt like you failed her and yourself, even if that's an irrational reaction etc.). Tell her that you love her and will never ever let her down again - and that you are stopping drinking entirely, 100%. Then keep your word.
Can she accept living with someone who is going to be "down" a lot of the time? It is not fun, and people are not saints. Some just can't hack it. If she can, treasure her. Can you in turn accept that she may not be as emotionally supportive as you'd wish? If you can, accept it.
The key to a successful marriage, is to have reasonable expectations. Don't think in terms of "should, ought to, why can't". She is who she is, and you are who you are. You live with the real person, not the imaginary one. As long as there are no deal breakers, there is wisdom in acceptance. I know how hard depression can be, from having friends struggle with it and sometimes lose to it. I wish you the best, and good luck.
posted by VikingSword at 11:31 AM on July 15, 2009 [10 favorites]
Response by poster: She has serious trust issues going back to her last 2 boyfriends cheating on her (which was over 6 years ago). I have always loved the drink, but it has been 5 weeks since having a drink and "yes," drinking was a way to supplement my meds. I am currently on a bunch of other meds to see if anything helps including lamictal, zoloft, abilify and cymbalta.
A terrible llama- that is a really good question about what she would say that I'm not saying: She would say that I really hurt her by my words when I exploded on her, after drinking at 2 pm in the afternoon at a wedding- my first vacation this year and I ruined it by getting drunk and freaking out on her.
She said I lied to her about how I was feeling and that I wasn't interested in having her brother and sisters coming out for a week this week. I told her I couldn't handle it right now, which is very much true. They are ages 21, 18, and 11 and are all a huge handful normally, much less in a depressive state with a marriage that feels like it is in shambles (though is probably a little better than what I make it out to be).
posted by TheBones at 11:33 AM on July 15, 2009
A terrible llama- that is a really good question about what she would say that I'm not saying: She would say that I really hurt her by my words when I exploded on her, after drinking at 2 pm in the afternoon at a wedding- my first vacation this year and I ruined it by getting drunk and freaking out on her.
She said I lied to her about how I was feeling and that I wasn't interested in having her brother and sisters coming out for a week this week. I told her I couldn't handle it right now, which is very much true. They are ages 21, 18, and 11 and are all a huge handful normally, much less in a depressive state with a marriage that feels like it is in shambles (though is probably a little better than what I make it out to be).
posted by TheBones at 11:33 AM on July 15, 2009
Best answer: > Ironmouth- you hit my problem right on the head. I don't feel like she is supporting me emotionally, though she keeps saying "well, I didn't leave you, or ask you to leave, did I?" I'm not sure I consider that real support.
See, the problem is that you're way too ready to look at the problem that way, which is why Ironmouth's answer appeals to you so much. I won't say it's a bad answer per se—it's one way to look at the situation—but it's not an answer that's helpful to you, unless you're looking to get out of your marriage. If you want to keep your wife and patch things back together, you need to stop your ears to the siren song of "it's really her fault... if she loved me, she'd..." and focus on what you need to do to make her feel comfortable with you again. In fact, you might ask her: "What can I do to make you feel you can trust me again?" Tell her you know you fucked up, you're sorry, and you'll do whatever it takes to make things right. This isn't about blame or putting yourself down, it's about doing the hard thing to make your marriage work. Good luck, and listen to Sidhedevil, she knows what she's talking about.
posted by languagehat at 11:34 AM on July 15, 2009 [7 favorites]
See, the problem is that you're way too ready to look at the problem that way, which is why Ironmouth's answer appeals to you so much. I won't say it's a bad answer per se—it's one way to look at the situation—but it's not an answer that's helpful to you, unless you're looking to get out of your marriage. If you want to keep your wife and patch things back together, you need to stop your ears to the siren song of "it's really her fault... if she loved me, she'd..." and focus on what you need to do to make her feel comfortable with you again. In fact, you might ask her: "What can I do to make you feel you can trust me again?" Tell her you know you fucked up, you're sorry, and you'll do whatever it takes to make things right. This isn't about blame or putting yourself down, it's about doing the hard thing to make your marriage work. Good luck, and listen to Sidhedevil, she knows what she's talking about.
posted by languagehat at 11:34 AM on July 15, 2009 [7 favorites]
On non-preview, so does VikingSword.
posted by languagehat at 11:36 AM on July 15, 2009
posted by languagehat at 11:36 AM on July 15, 2009
Response by poster: Thank you languagehat- I am just starting to get it through my thick skull that I need to stop saying I own my problems and actually own them. I realize that as much as I am hurt right now, she is just as hurt and going through just as difficult a time as I am, it is just kind of tough to take that perspective with everything going on right now.
posted by TheBones at 11:47 AM on July 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by TheBones at 11:47 AM on July 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think you should demand that your wife go to therapy, possibly twice a week. Sometimes people have stuff going on and they don't really realize it right away, and that's normal. It's certainly one of the difficulties of depression, it is exceptionally hard to see the forest for the trees, but people also go around slowly coming to hate their jobs or losing their eyesight or not really liking tomatoes all that much anymore, and they don't realize it until it has reached a certain level. That's not a lie, it's not a betrayal, it's life. You're describing someone who not only seems to have no understanding of depression, but who in general cannot accept change that is outside her control. And is punishing you.
You can't make her think or feel or do anything (and it may come as a shock to her that she can't do those things to you), so you can ask for support and you can try to be understanding as she adapts to reality, but there's only so much you can do. I think the burden is on her to do her part of the work on the marriage.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:47 AM on July 15, 2009
You can't make her think or feel or do anything (and it may come as a shock to her that she can't do those things to you), so you can ask for support and you can try to be understanding as she adapts to reality, but there's only so much you can do. I think the burden is on her to do her part of the work on the marriage.
posted by Lyn Never at 11:47 AM on July 15, 2009
Just a note from my experience: depressive and other mood-related episodes don't always come on in a way that is possible to positively or easily identify immediately. Sometimes, it's only after a period of time that one is capable of saying, "Wow - I was really in the middle of it, there." Depression (and other illnesses) have a strange way of integrating into your sense of normalcy.
posted by iftheaccidentwill at 11:52 AM on July 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by iftheaccidentwill at 11:52 AM on July 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Thank you sidhedevil, you are right and I would love more of your reality, and maybe a little less of mine.
posted by TheBones at 11:58 AM on July 15, 2009
posted by TheBones at 11:58 AM on July 15, 2009
Response by poster: Iftheaccidentwill- I think I am using that as an excuse, but that is the way I look back on the past month- I was trying to keep her at arms length because she is having a hard time at work and I didn't see adding any more pressure to her as being helpful- as crazy as not expressing my issues to the one I claim to love sounds.
posted by TheBones at 12:00 PM on July 15, 2009
posted by TheBones at 12:00 PM on July 15, 2009
she says she will not go to therapy for her or for "us" until she feels that she can trust me again.
This is really puzzling. Has she had a negative experience previously in couples counseling? If not, I would think that a therapist's office, with the therapist there as an outside, theoretically impartial observer, would be a very safe place for her to regain or rebuild the trust in you she feels she has lost.
Can you pose this as a compromise--you'll see your therapist twice a week for her sake, and she'll attend couples therapy with you, say, once monthly, whether or not she feels she can trust you or feels that you're back to your "old self" for your sake?
posted by Meg_Murry at 12:03 PM on July 15, 2009
This is really puzzling. Has she had a negative experience previously in couples counseling? If not, I would think that a therapist's office, with the therapist there as an outside, theoretically impartial observer, would be a very safe place for her to regain or rebuild the trust in you she feels she has lost.
Can you pose this as a compromise--you'll see your therapist twice a week for her sake, and she'll attend couples therapy with you, say, once monthly, whether or not she feels she can trust you or feels that you're back to your "old self" for your sake?
posted by Meg_Murry at 12:03 PM on July 15, 2009
OP, you might remember that alcohol is a nervous system depressant and if anything will in the long term probably counteract any effects of your meds in terms of mood. Unless you're alcoholic, drinking will do nothing for you. In fact, it's actually dangerous to drink alcohol while taking antidepressants.
posted by kldickson at 12:18 PM on July 15, 2009
posted by kldickson at 12:18 PM on July 15, 2009
A terrible llama- that is a really good question about what she would say that I'm not saying: She would say that I really hurt her by my words when I exploded on her, after drinking at 2 pm in the afternoon at a wedding- my first vacation this year and I ruined it by getting drunk and freaking out on her.
If that's the case, I think if it were me I'd start by addressing that part with her--it sounds like even you think she's still carrying it around.
It would probably be worth your reviewing exactly what the words were, and exactly why they hurt her, hopefully coming to understand this in a deeper way, and letting her know you understand why that particular experience might have marked her feelings in the way that it did.
You sound like you're doing all the right things for yourself, it sounds like you need to make amends with her. I understand the lack of interest in the family visit, but maybe a shared family experience at an amusement park, going to visit them for a weekend, or some compromise about this would go a long way to making her feel that you were demonstrating a willingness to meet her needs, and meet her half way.
It sounds like she's put up with a lot, and she might need to see you do some of the work of making the marriage a happy place for both of you.
Good luck to you --- hope things get better soon.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:19 PM on July 15, 2009
If that's the case, I think if it were me I'd start by addressing that part with her--it sounds like even you think she's still carrying it around.
It would probably be worth your reviewing exactly what the words were, and exactly why they hurt her, hopefully coming to understand this in a deeper way, and letting her know you understand why that particular experience might have marked her feelings in the way that it did.
You sound like you're doing all the right things for yourself, it sounds like you need to make amends with her. I understand the lack of interest in the family visit, but maybe a shared family experience at an amusement park, going to visit them for a weekend, or some compromise about this would go a long way to making her feel that you were demonstrating a willingness to meet her needs, and meet her half way.
It sounds like she's put up with a lot, and she might need to see you do some of the work of making the marriage a happy place for both of you.
Good luck to you --- hope things get better soon.
posted by A Terrible Llama at 12:19 PM on July 15, 2009
She needs to go to counseling if only to help her get thru the experience of living with a depressive. Tell her I said get over her high horse and go. (I say that as having dealt with severe depression and as having dealt with a spouse dealing with it.)
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:36 PM on July 15, 2009
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 12:36 PM on July 15, 2009
I see two different issues here. First, there is using alcohol as a way to manage your depression and the negative consequences of that. Second, is the issue of not being honest about how "depressed" you are.
I don't blame your wife for being upset about the first. It sounds like you unloaded on her, she was in an uncomfortable situation at a public event (the wedding you mention), and because of the nature of depression, it is your responsibility to see your doctor and discuss medication adjustment to treat your behavior rather than turning to alcohol. It sounds like you recognize this, however, so this is more of a learning experience and giving her a sincere apology situation, in my mind.
The second issue, however, the "dishonesty" about how you were doing is a little unreasonable on her part if she understands how depression works. Most depressives, myself included, put on a good show for people when things are not going well, even more so for the people the care about the most. They do not want to interject worry or stress into their loved ones lives, and contend with the guilt that might ensue. They also might be in denial, and therefore, can't honestly say, "I am in a deep, dark pit of depression that is swallowing me whole," because they can't quite see that yet. I wonder if your wife needs a bit more information about what depression is and how it works. Her refusal to join you in therapy is counterproductive, in my opinion.
How do you save your marriage? Your wife has focused on the issue of trust. The only way to regain trust is to show up every day and be a reliable, giving spouse who operates as part of a team. To accomplish this, however, you need her help. Part of that would be to attend some counseling sessions together so she can voice her concerns, hear yours as well, and have the input of a neutral third party. If you do your part (see your psych and/or therapist, take your meds, be observant of yourself and pro-active ony our own behalf), then I would hope she would meet you half-way and join you in at least a session or two, as well as further educate herself about depression. Good luck!
Oh, and if this matters, I suffer from clinical depression, and through a combination of meds and therapy have managed okay. I understand where both of you are coming from. It's not easy, but it is possible to treat your depression and have healthy and happy relationships.
posted by katemcd at 12:42 PM on July 15, 2009
I don't blame your wife for being upset about the first. It sounds like you unloaded on her, she was in an uncomfortable situation at a public event (the wedding you mention), and because of the nature of depression, it is your responsibility to see your doctor and discuss medication adjustment to treat your behavior rather than turning to alcohol. It sounds like you recognize this, however, so this is more of a learning experience and giving her a sincere apology situation, in my mind.
The second issue, however, the "dishonesty" about how you were doing is a little unreasonable on her part if she understands how depression works. Most depressives, myself included, put on a good show for people when things are not going well, even more so for the people the care about the most. They do not want to interject worry or stress into their loved ones lives, and contend with the guilt that might ensue. They also might be in denial, and therefore, can't honestly say, "I am in a deep, dark pit of depression that is swallowing me whole," because they can't quite see that yet. I wonder if your wife needs a bit more information about what depression is and how it works. Her refusal to join you in therapy is counterproductive, in my opinion.
How do you save your marriage? Your wife has focused on the issue of trust. The only way to regain trust is to show up every day and be a reliable, giving spouse who operates as part of a team. To accomplish this, however, you need her help. Part of that would be to attend some counseling sessions together so she can voice her concerns, hear yours as well, and have the input of a neutral third party. If you do your part (see your psych and/or therapist, take your meds, be observant of yourself and pro-active ony our own behalf), then I would hope she would meet you half-way and join you in at least a session or two, as well as further educate herself about depression. Good luck!
Oh, and if this matters, I suffer from clinical depression, and through a combination of meds and therapy have managed okay. I understand where both of you are coming from. It's not easy, but it is possible to treat your depression and have healthy and happy relationships.
posted by katemcd at 12:42 PM on July 15, 2009
i think that this question is rather empty and you're not getting true responses because you have diminished your role in all of this. you say exactly what your wife has said (Just to let you all know, she says she will not go to therapy for her or for "us" until she feels that she can trust me again. - "well, I didn't leave you, or ask you to leave, did I?") but you are unwilling to say what you said to her. you dance around the topic, saying things like "explosion of emotions and wrong words" which removes blame from yourself. it's as if your depression hadn't been controlling you, your emotions wouldn't have exploded, and you wouldn't have said those things. if i were with a man who said (what seems to be from her reactions) devastating things to me that make me question the foundation of our relationship and all he could do was blame the depression and not take any accountability, i would also feel a million miles away.
you need to do some soul searching, probably with the help of your shrink, as to why you are unwilling to truly accept blame for hurting your partner through your lies (both direct and through omission) and hurtful words. you don't need hand holding and "there, there" right now, that will only reinforce that this wasn't your fault.
on preview - maybe some of her anger also stems from you hiding this until she found something that would help her feel happy and destressed from work (having family close) and then you had a disco freak out. so now she has a dishonest, hurtful partner whose mental instability is now keeping her away from the things she needs to remain grounded and happy.
posted by nadawi at 12:48 PM on July 15, 2009 [2 favorites]
you need to do some soul searching, probably with the help of your shrink, as to why you are unwilling to truly accept blame for hurting your partner through your lies (both direct and through omission) and hurtful words. you don't need hand holding and "there, there" right now, that will only reinforce that this wasn't your fault.
on preview - maybe some of her anger also stems from you hiding this until she found something that would help her feel happy and destressed from work (having family close) and then you had a disco freak out. so now she has a dishonest, hurtful partner whose mental instability is now keeping her away from the things she needs to remain grounded and happy.
posted by nadawi at 12:48 PM on July 15, 2009 [2 favorites]
Best answer: I think it may be worthwhile for you to understand just how painful it can be to deal with someone with depression.
I say this as someone who is deeply in love with a man who suffers from depression. I say it as someone who is undiagnosed but probably suffers from depression or something similar, myself. I say this as someone who feels great sympathy for those who are depressed, and understands the very deep and horrible pain that is depression. Living with a depressed person is hard.
It takes serious work, both emotional and physical, to merely put up with someone dealing with a serious depressive episode, let alone give them the support and affection that they both need and yearn for. There is first the constant negativity that surrounds you, when you live with someone in a depressive episode. They never want to do anything, never are satisfied with anything, never feel good. Depressed people draw a curtain of darkness around them, and living with a depressed person means the curtain can very easily get pulled around you as well. And then there is the neediness of depressed people (or at least the ones that I have encountered). A depressed person questions his value in such a horrific way that, at least in my experience, he will constantly seek out emotional support. Here you are, struggling to put up with the deep negativity of the person you love, and that person constantly keeps seeking affirmation of their worth, in either shockingly straightforward or less obvious ways. A depressed person can be an emotional sponge, desperately trying to soak up any positivity he can get from those around him, even though it almost never actually helps him feel better, himself. And then there are all the small aspects of daily life that one has to contend with, when one's life partner is struggling to just get through the day. There are the chores that get abandoned, the mail that doesn't get picked up, the meals that either aren't prepared or aren't eaten, the social activities that are skipped or made unbearable...
It's hard.
So why am I telling you this? I don't know what your wife has been dealing with, and I doubt that her experiences with your depression sync up exactly with my experiences with other people's depression...How do I think this is going to help you?
Because the only way I can make it through some of the worst parts of living with my significant other's depression is knowing what he is going through. I understand the difficulty he is having. My knowing the nature of his suffering helps me cope. When he tells me that he is starting to feel a bit wonky, I understand what signs I need to look out for, I understand what I should start preparing for, emotionally, and I can do what I can to get him to help himself. Knowing is coping.
So, now, here is your wife. You didn't tell her that you were in a depressive state. You didn't give her the tools she needed to cope with the changes in your behavior and attitude that, I promise you, you did not successfully hide from her. If she wanted to be a partner with you, and work with you to make the past month bearable, she couldn't. You left her stranded, I'm guessing, living behind the curtain of darkness, being sapped of all her own emotional energy, and struggling to keep up with the activities of life, without any explanation why.
In a very real sense, you left her stranded.
Now, you were struggling with depression. And I am sorry if it seems like I am blaming you for a lot of behavior that you couldn't understand how to control at the time. But you have to be willing to accept how your behavior affected your wife. You have to be able to objectively consider the ways that your hiding your depression from her caused her pain and strife. I bet this is why she feels she cannot trust you: you let her suffer for a month, culminating in a horrendous blow-out argument, without telling her why it was happening. I am willing to be she felt pain because of your depression, and you didn't give her the information she needed to help either of you.
I think you need to listen to your wife. You probably have been apologizing for your behavior a lot, recently, as well as giving a lot of excuses, haven't you? But as long as your conversations with her keep being focused around your apologies and excuses, it won't be focused on how she feels, how she has suffered, and what she needs in the future to contend with your depression. I think you need to understand your depression as something that affects her, too, in a way that can be as horrible as what affects you, and you need to appreciate that your depression is something the two of you need to battle together, as a team. Get her to talk, and then listen. I am willing to bet what she has to say is both something that you need to hear and that she needs to think through and say.
Again, I want to emphasize that I am giving an answer based on my experiences, and what I think my issue would be if my SO had pretended not to be depressed during a month-long depressive episode. In the end, I want to emphasize that I really don't know what your wife has been going through... But, given how little you have told us about what she is feeling, and given how every depressed person I've ever known has had extreme difficulty truly understanding how their depression affects those around them while they're in the midst of an episode, I'm assuming that you haven't really had a chance yet to understand your wife's perspective.
I am sorry you have been going through this. I am sorry that your wife has not been able to support you, given your illness. I am sorry if I have made any errors in my assumptions about the nature of your illness. I hope you do not think I am trying to excuse all of your wife's behaviors or blame you for all the problems in your relationship -- I have just been trying to highlight a perspective other than yours. But I am hoping that I have offered some insight into why a woman whose husband has hidden his depressed state from her might feel untrusting and distant. In the end, I just hope I can help you understand.
posted by Ms. Saint at 1:02 PM on July 15, 2009 [10 favorites]
I say this as someone who is deeply in love with a man who suffers from depression. I say it as someone who is undiagnosed but probably suffers from depression or something similar, myself. I say this as someone who feels great sympathy for those who are depressed, and understands the very deep and horrible pain that is depression. Living with a depressed person is hard.
It takes serious work, both emotional and physical, to merely put up with someone dealing with a serious depressive episode, let alone give them the support and affection that they both need and yearn for. There is first the constant negativity that surrounds you, when you live with someone in a depressive episode. They never want to do anything, never are satisfied with anything, never feel good. Depressed people draw a curtain of darkness around them, and living with a depressed person means the curtain can very easily get pulled around you as well. And then there is the neediness of depressed people (or at least the ones that I have encountered). A depressed person questions his value in such a horrific way that, at least in my experience, he will constantly seek out emotional support. Here you are, struggling to put up with the deep negativity of the person you love, and that person constantly keeps seeking affirmation of their worth, in either shockingly straightforward or less obvious ways. A depressed person can be an emotional sponge, desperately trying to soak up any positivity he can get from those around him, even though it almost never actually helps him feel better, himself. And then there are all the small aspects of daily life that one has to contend with, when one's life partner is struggling to just get through the day. There are the chores that get abandoned, the mail that doesn't get picked up, the meals that either aren't prepared or aren't eaten, the social activities that are skipped or made unbearable...
It's hard.
So why am I telling you this? I don't know what your wife has been dealing with, and I doubt that her experiences with your depression sync up exactly with my experiences with other people's depression...How do I think this is going to help you?
Because the only way I can make it through some of the worst parts of living with my significant other's depression is knowing what he is going through. I understand the difficulty he is having. My knowing the nature of his suffering helps me cope. When he tells me that he is starting to feel a bit wonky, I understand what signs I need to look out for, I understand what I should start preparing for, emotionally, and I can do what I can to get him to help himself. Knowing is coping.
So, now, here is your wife. You didn't tell her that you were in a depressive state. You didn't give her the tools she needed to cope with the changes in your behavior and attitude that, I promise you, you did not successfully hide from her. If she wanted to be a partner with you, and work with you to make the past month bearable, she couldn't. You left her stranded, I'm guessing, living behind the curtain of darkness, being sapped of all her own emotional energy, and struggling to keep up with the activities of life, without any explanation why.
In a very real sense, you left her stranded.
Now, you were struggling with depression. And I am sorry if it seems like I am blaming you for a lot of behavior that you couldn't understand how to control at the time. But you have to be willing to accept how your behavior affected your wife. You have to be able to objectively consider the ways that your hiding your depression from her caused her pain and strife. I bet this is why she feels she cannot trust you: you let her suffer for a month, culminating in a horrendous blow-out argument, without telling her why it was happening. I am willing to be she felt pain because of your depression, and you didn't give her the information she needed to help either of you.
I think you need to listen to your wife. You probably have been apologizing for your behavior a lot, recently, as well as giving a lot of excuses, haven't you? But as long as your conversations with her keep being focused around your apologies and excuses, it won't be focused on how she feels, how she has suffered, and what she needs in the future to contend with your depression. I think you need to understand your depression as something that affects her, too, in a way that can be as horrible as what affects you, and you need to appreciate that your depression is something the two of you need to battle together, as a team. Get her to talk, and then listen. I am willing to bet what she has to say is both something that you need to hear and that she needs to think through and say.
Again, I want to emphasize that I am giving an answer based on my experiences, and what I think my issue would be if my SO had pretended not to be depressed during a month-long depressive episode. In the end, I want to emphasize that I really don't know what your wife has been going through... But, given how little you have told us about what she is feeling, and given how every depressed person I've ever known has had extreme difficulty truly understanding how their depression affects those around them while they're in the midst of an episode, I'm assuming that you haven't really had a chance yet to understand your wife's perspective.
I am sorry you have been going through this. I am sorry that your wife has not been able to support you, given your illness. I am sorry if I have made any errors in my assumptions about the nature of your illness. I hope you do not think I am trying to excuse all of your wife's behaviors or blame you for all the problems in your relationship -- I have just been trying to highlight a perspective other than yours. But I am hoping that I have offered some insight into why a woman whose husband has hidden his depressed state from her might feel untrusting and distant. In the end, I just hope I can help you understand.
posted by Ms. Saint at 1:02 PM on July 15, 2009 [10 favorites]
Stop drinking and see what happens.
I don't think it's a great sign that she won't go to counseling with you, or that she feels you not telling her how depressed you were feeling or that you didn't want her relatives to visit are terrible lies. Rather, they are the kind of small lies that make relationships work, in most cases. Other than that, it sounds like you had a fight. I understand that things may be bad, but this shouldn't be a marriage in jeopardy. Be good for a month, and then ask her to join you at therapy sessions with your doctor's advice.
posted by xammerboy at 1:57 PM on July 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's a great sign that she won't go to counseling with you, or that she feels you not telling her how depressed you were feeling or that you didn't want her relatives to visit are terrible lies. Rather, they are the kind of small lies that make relationships work, in most cases. Other than that, it sounds like you had a fight. I understand that things may be bad, but this shouldn't be a marriage in jeopardy. Be good for a month, and then ask her to join you at therapy sessions with your doctor's advice.
posted by xammerboy at 1:57 PM on July 15, 2009 [1 favorite]
She feels betrayed that you had a serious problem and didn't share it with her. It's like you got a diagnosis of cancer and tried to hide from your wife. Right now, she is hurt and angry and is probably wondering what your marriage vows mean if you won't include her something that important that is happening to you. From her point of view, expecting her to provide "real support" at this point in time would require overcoming her very real emotions.
posted by metahawk at 2:35 PM on July 15, 2009
posted by metahawk at 2:35 PM on July 15, 2009
I'm afraid I don't have much sympathy for your wife. She knew you were receiving ongoing, long-term treatment for depression, yes? She *saw* that you had begun drinking again, yes? I'm going to venture a guess that she also saw other little signs of your returning depression long before you blew up at her, too. It may well be that she saw the signs of it before even you recognized it. But did she do anything -- early on when it might have prevented all of this? Nope.
"Lied to her", my ass. I'd be very surprised if she didn't see it coming and, perhaps hoping it would just go away, chose to ignore your worsening problem. That, my friend, is a choice born of immaturity and/or cowardice. Either that or she's extraordinarily oblivious to your emotional states -- which doesn't bode especially well for your marriage either.
I have some significant experience with this kind of thing. I've been married for 16 years to a man with bipolar disorder that most often manifests as severe depression. There are a couple of things I learned early on that have kept our marriage happy, respectful, and healthy.
1. I can't take his mood fluctuations personally. Easier said than done -- but it's absolutely critical and it's something your wife needs to learn if she wants to be in a happy marriage with you.
2. One of the ways I can really help him control his disease is to pay attention to what's happening with him and to provide him with feedback about what I'm seeing. If he's seeming down or a bit manic or whatever, I tell him EARLY so he can talk to his doctor about it before it blows up into a big problem. Your wife needs to be ready to do the same if she wants to help you.
And why wouldn't she want to help you? Maybe that's the biggest unspoken question here. Why wouldn't someone want to help their spouse manage their illness? Why would they treat a manifestation of the disease as some kind of personal attack on them? Why indeed...
I certainly hope I'm wrong, but... you wouldn't be the first guy with depression whose spouse had decided they didn't want to be married to a guy with a mental illness anymore and who, lacking any better explanation for why they wanted out, decided to use the guy's symptoms against him. (This is, in fact, exactly how my husband's first marriage ended.)
Maybe you should just cut to the chase and ask her if this is where's she's headed.
posted by rhartong at 3:20 PM on July 15, 2009
"Lied to her", my ass. I'd be very surprised if she didn't see it coming and, perhaps hoping it would just go away, chose to ignore your worsening problem. That, my friend, is a choice born of immaturity and/or cowardice. Either that or she's extraordinarily oblivious to your emotional states -- which doesn't bode especially well for your marriage either.
I have some significant experience with this kind of thing. I've been married for 16 years to a man with bipolar disorder that most often manifests as severe depression. There are a couple of things I learned early on that have kept our marriage happy, respectful, and healthy.
1. I can't take his mood fluctuations personally. Easier said than done -- but it's absolutely critical and it's something your wife needs to learn if she wants to be in a happy marriage with you.
2. One of the ways I can really help him control his disease is to pay attention to what's happening with him and to provide him with feedback about what I'm seeing. If he's seeming down or a bit manic or whatever, I tell him EARLY so he can talk to his doctor about it before it blows up into a big problem. Your wife needs to be ready to do the same if she wants to help you.
And why wouldn't she want to help you? Maybe that's the biggest unspoken question here. Why wouldn't someone want to help their spouse manage their illness? Why would they treat a manifestation of the disease as some kind of personal attack on them? Why indeed...
I certainly hope I'm wrong, but... you wouldn't be the first guy with depression whose spouse had decided they didn't want to be married to a guy with a mental illness anymore and who, lacking any better explanation for why they wanted out, decided to use the guy's symptoms against him. (This is, in fact, exactly how my husband's first marriage ended.)
Maybe you should just cut to the chase and ask her if this is where's she's headed.
posted by rhartong at 3:20 PM on July 15, 2009
Here's my eternal take on couples therapy:
If your SO suggests that the two of you attend couples therapy to work on your relationship, there are only two possible answers.
(1) An unequivocal "Yes, I will do that for you. For us."
(2) "Our relationship isn't worth that to me." (a.k.a., any other answer at all.)
posted by IAmBroom at 10:54 PM on July 15, 2009
If your SO suggests that the two of you attend couples therapy to work on your relationship, there are only two possible answers.
(1) An unequivocal "Yes, I will do that for you. For us."
(2) "Our relationship isn't worth that to me." (a.k.a., any other answer at all.)
posted by IAmBroom at 10:54 PM on July 15, 2009
I don't feel like she is supporting me emotionally, though she keeps saying "well, I didn't leave you, or ask you to leave, did I?" I'm not sure I consider that real support.
Why shouldn't she leave? Seriously, think about it from her perspective. You changed in a major way midway though your relationship and she committed to working with you as a partner and you bailed on her. She can not make you better in any way, especially when you are choosing to lie and be self-destructive. It is completely up to you to fight your illness and do the work. She has probably been incredibly supportive of you in ways you don't even see or acknowledge and yet you criticise her for not doing enough. You even blame her for your continued illness that you lied to her about (she can't win, can she?). You are not that committed to fighting against your illness; you say you are in therapy "by her demands" and you are only exercising semi-regularly. On top of how little you think you should do for your own illness you are expecting her to go to therapy with you. Well, maybe she is tired, maybe she doesn't have the energy to go to therapy because while you are living in your self-absorbed world she is picking up all of your slack and doing the work of two people and she is exhausted by the thought that the life she sees stretched in front of her completely revolves around your needs and frankly has no joy in it for her (since you won't even let her see her own family when she is already stressed from work and all she hears from you is blame).
A diagnoses of depression is not a ticket to being an asshole. You chose your behaviour over the past month and at the wedding (that would be a deal-breaker for most people and yet she is still here - she must be either incredibly empathetic or else really beaten down by your abuse). You are damned lucky she loves you enough to stick around. You should thank her, profusely, you should do the work that only you can do to make yourself someone worthy of her. Maybe the relationship should be more about what you can do for your wife instead of the extraordinary demands you are placing on her. Any time YOU feel tired or sad or overwhelmed, turn it around and tell yourself, hey my wife is twice as tired/sad/overwhelmed and still she is able to be here for me. I should go show my love for her right now and I should really commit to fighting this illness by doing something right now. Is it hard work? Yes, but relationships are hard work and you have made her carry the burden alone for too long, now it is your turn to put something back into the relationship.
It doesn't matter if your illness is depression or diabetes or cancer. YOU are the only person that can take responsibility for it. Good on your wife for calling you out on your bullshit and refusing to enable your behaviour. Support is not the same as enabling. You want enabling, she IS offering support.
It is amazing to read this thread ans pick out which posters have depression and which posters have experience as the SO of a person not dealing with their depression.
posted by saucysault at 7:05 AM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
Why shouldn't she leave? Seriously, think about it from her perspective. You changed in a major way midway though your relationship and she committed to working with you as a partner and you bailed on her. She can not make you better in any way, especially when you are choosing to lie and be self-destructive. It is completely up to you to fight your illness and do the work. She has probably been incredibly supportive of you in ways you don't even see or acknowledge and yet you criticise her for not doing enough. You even blame her for your continued illness that you lied to her about (she can't win, can she?). You are not that committed to fighting against your illness; you say you are in therapy "by her demands" and you are only exercising semi-regularly. On top of how little you think you should do for your own illness you are expecting her to go to therapy with you. Well, maybe she is tired, maybe she doesn't have the energy to go to therapy because while you are living in your self-absorbed world she is picking up all of your slack and doing the work of two people and she is exhausted by the thought that the life she sees stretched in front of her completely revolves around your needs and frankly has no joy in it for her (since you won't even let her see her own family when she is already stressed from work and all she hears from you is blame).
A diagnoses of depression is not a ticket to being an asshole. You chose your behaviour over the past month and at the wedding (that would be a deal-breaker for most people and yet she is still here - she must be either incredibly empathetic or else really beaten down by your abuse). You are damned lucky she loves you enough to stick around. You should thank her, profusely, you should do the work that only you can do to make yourself someone worthy of her. Maybe the relationship should be more about what you can do for your wife instead of the extraordinary demands you are placing on her. Any time YOU feel tired or sad or overwhelmed, turn it around and tell yourself, hey my wife is twice as tired/sad/overwhelmed and still she is able to be here for me. I should go show my love for her right now and I should really commit to fighting this illness by doing something right now. Is it hard work? Yes, but relationships are hard work and you have made her carry the burden alone for too long, now it is your turn to put something back into the relationship.
It doesn't matter if your illness is depression or diabetes or cancer. YOU are the only person that can take responsibility for it. Good on your wife for calling you out on your bullshit and refusing to enable your behaviour. Support is not the same as enabling. You want enabling, she IS offering support.
It is amazing to read this thread ans pick out which posters have depression and which posters have experience as the SO of a person not dealing with their depression.
posted by saucysault at 7:05 AM on July 16, 2009 [2 favorites]
Oh, and my interpretation on why she may not want couples counselling is because she may see it as yet another excuse from you for avoiding the real problem (the way you are [not] dealing with your illness) and a convenient forum for you to blame her again for your problems with an audience (the wedding shows you like to have people witness how crappy you treat her). She should probably have individual counselling though to examine her own role in the relationship and what she needs to do to make a happy life for herself.
posted by saucysault at 7:15 AM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by saucysault at 7:15 AM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Response by poster: Saucysault- WOW, tough love! Part of your answer strikes a strong chord within me, but, (isn't there always a but as Mrs. Bones would say), as other posters have pointed out- and very rightly so- this is a marriage, a commitment, and most importantly- a partnership.
I am not making excuses and I am not trying to gloss over this at all, and I appreciate your comment.
posted by TheBones at 7:45 AM on July 16, 2009
I am not making excuses and I am not trying to gloss over this at all, and I appreciate your comment.
posted by TheBones at 7:45 AM on July 16, 2009
Absolutely it is a partnership, which means you have to look after her needs too. You CAN do it, there are many successful relationships where one or both partners struggle with depression but considering how difficult relationships without such challenges are you both will have to be even MORE committed to each other and work even harder at keeping your relationship healthy. I think you can do it though, I believe in you and I think your wife must love you a lot to to have already put so much of herself in sustaining the relationship. Good luck!
posted by saucysault at 8:23 AM on July 16, 2009
posted by saucysault at 8:23 AM on July 16, 2009
I think it's over the top to say you were lying about your emotional state, especially since it's possible you might not heave realized yourself how depressed you were. Also, she's not a mindreader and shouldn't be expected to be, but given that she knew you had a history of depression, she could've asked follow-up questions instead of just taken your word at "alright."
For example, sometimes my wife says she's OK when she's not, because she's mad and wants to calm down, or is embarrassed at being upset by something, or thinks I'll be upset, or just doesn't want to talk about it right now, and I don't think she's lying.
She's demanding that you see a therapist but won't go to couples counseling? I agree with IAmBroom's take on counseling, plus this is a straight-up quid pro quo situation. She's insisting that your individual counseling is necessary and you're doing it, but won't do counseling you feel is necessary.
You are not them, and it's immature and unfair of her to punish you for what they did.
Lots of people would think that the "in sickness and in health" phrase that's common in many marriage vows would cover depression. Also he was diagnosed with depression 4 years ago and they got married 3 years ago. She explicitly signed up for this. If depression was a dealbreaker she should not have married him.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:05 PM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
For example, sometimes my wife says she's OK when she's not, because she's mad and wants to calm down, or is embarrassed at being upset by something, or thinks I'll be upset, or just doesn't want to talk about it right now, and I don't think she's lying.
I am seeing a therapist, by her demands, twice a week instead of once, am seeing my psychiatrist regularly and have switched medications and am back on a semi-regular workout routine.
She's demanding that you see a therapist but won't go to couples counseling? I agree with IAmBroom's take on counseling, plus this is a straight-up quid pro quo situation. She's insisting that your individual counseling is necessary and you're doing it, but won't do counseling you feel is necessary.
She has serious trust issues going back to her last 2 boyfriends cheating on her
You are not them, and it's immature and unfair of her to punish you for what they did.
Why shouldn't she leave? Seriously, think about it from her perspective. You changed in a major way midway though your relationship and she committed to working with you as a partner and you bailed on her.
Lots of people would think that the "in sickness and in health" phrase that's common in many marriage vows would cover depression. Also he was diagnosed with depression 4 years ago and they got married 3 years ago. She explicitly signed up for this. If depression was a dealbreaker she should not have married him.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:05 PM on July 16, 2009 [1 favorite]
Also, and I'm just some guy on the Internet and not in any way a doctor, but according to Wikipedia, Duloxetine (Cymbalta's the trade name) "appears to be inferior to the more popular antidepressants sertraline [Zoloft, Lustral] and escitalopram [Lexapro, Cipralex]." I know you have to try different antidepressants to see which one works best for you, but you might want to investigate this with someone who's medically qualified.
posted by kirkaracha at 6:21 PM on July 16, 2009
posted by kirkaracha at 6:21 PM on July 16, 2009
I can see why you misunderstood what I meant kirkkaracha, I should have worded it clearer. I agree marriage is in sickness and in health but BOTH people must be willing to fight against the sickness. MsBones commited to fighting with TheBones against the depression and to her it does not look like TheBones is willing to make the effort but expects his wife to continue fighting depression on his behalf without making him uncomfortable by pushing him to take responsibility or expecting him to treat her honestly and decently. Watching a loved one choose to be consumed by their illness by refusing treatment or being proactive against their illness is heartbreaking and rightly a dealbreaker.
posted by saucysault at 9:42 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by saucysault at 9:42 AM on July 17, 2009 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'm going to encourage you to let that mythology go. I think it will help you see your wife's perspective.
Depression didn't make you drink every night (and 3 drinks a night + 60 mg of Cymbalta is "to excess" whether you like it or not). Drinking every night was your response to your depression.
Depression didn't make you hide the seriousness of what was going on from your wife. That was your response to your depression.
Yes, you were depressed, and yes, that affects your judgment. But if you don't face up to the fact that you exercised poor judgment, I think it's going to be hard for you and your wife to reconnect.
Are the two of you seeing a couples counselor in addition to your own therapy? Because I think a few sessions with a third party might help facilitate your conversations about this.
Please note that I have lived with quite serious depression for 40+ years, and have been on and off meds for the last 22 years. Depression has prompted me to make some really shitty life decisions myself; I've lost lucrative work and screwed up friendships and romances because of my poor responses to my own acute depressive episodes. I know how much it can hurt, and my best wishes are with you.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:03 AM on July 15, 2009 [11 favorites]