Don't poke the crazy lady, unless it's with a big check.
April 12, 2009 5:14 PM Subscribe
My unstable mother is suddenly threatening to sue my very perplexed father for back child support in the state of California. I am now 31 years old. Will a court take her seriously?
My parents divorced in 1980/1981, in LA County. They had joint custody, and my father paid the court-ordered monthly child support. In 1984, my mother and stepfather moved, with me, to Michigan (and then to other states). My father chose not to make this a legal fight, and let them move me across state lines in violation of the court-filed-and-approved joint custody agreement. My father, mother, stepfather and stepmother had a conversation before the move in which they agreed that rather than continuing to pay the court-ordered child support, my father would be responsible for all of the travel costs associated with my summer and holiday visits, and of course support me during those visits. Yes, the smart thing to do would have been to formalize that agreement in court. No, they didn't do that. They've had a cordial relationship all of these years.
When I turned 18 (1995) and went to college, it was primarily paid for by my mother and stepfather. My father gave me an allowance. My mother told me that they had agreed to that arrangement to make up for the child support he hadn't paid.
I am now 31 years old (turned 18 in 1995, for those who don't like math). My mother, being both volatile and in some financial difficulty, has decided that she is angry about the fact that my father didn't pay child support. She never mentioned this to him while I was under 18. She never said anything about any of this to him, in fact, until this week, when she sent him a certified letter threatening legal action. In short, she wants him to pay a hospital bill from 1991 (I was insured on his policy, but he never even found out I was even in the hospital until months later). If he doesn't, she's threatening to sue him for the back child support (essentially from 1984-1995).
I have no idea if she's even consulted a lawyer at this point. She and I are very nearly estranged due to the things she's decided she's angry with me about. I do think that at least one motivation for the anger at my father is that she's jealous of my very healthy and loving relationship with my father. My mother is a volatile, unpredictable person with a strong sense of having been done wrong in life, and she's currently on a mission to 'even the score' with everyone she thinks has ever mistreated her. My father has yet to respond to her letter because he's afraid of antagonizing her... and equally afraid that not responding is also antagonizing her.
So the question is... does my mother have a legal leg to stand on? She never filed any complaints about child support arrearage while I was under 18. I'm curious to hear from anyone with related legal expertise, of course, but also folks with anecdotal information about their experiences in California family court.
Anyone who wants to take a stab at the insane human relations aspect of this is also welcome to jump in. Throwaway email? Why certainly... ca.support.14.years.later@gmail.com
My parents divorced in 1980/1981, in LA County. They had joint custody, and my father paid the court-ordered monthly child support. In 1984, my mother and stepfather moved, with me, to Michigan (and then to other states). My father chose not to make this a legal fight, and let them move me across state lines in violation of the court-filed-and-approved joint custody agreement. My father, mother, stepfather and stepmother had a conversation before the move in which they agreed that rather than continuing to pay the court-ordered child support, my father would be responsible for all of the travel costs associated with my summer and holiday visits, and of course support me during those visits. Yes, the smart thing to do would have been to formalize that agreement in court. No, they didn't do that. They've had a cordial relationship all of these years.
When I turned 18 (1995) and went to college, it was primarily paid for by my mother and stepfather. My father gave me an allowance. My mother told me that they had agreed to that arrangement to make up for the child support he hadn't paid.
I am now 31 years old (turned 18 in 1995, for those who don't like math). My mother, being both volatile and in some financial difficulty, has decided that she is angry about the fact that my father didn't pay child support. She never mentioned this to him while I was under 18. She never said anything about any of this to him, in fact, until this week, when she sent him a certified letter threatening legal action. In short, she wants him to pay a hospital bill from 1991 (I was insured on his policy, but he never even found out I was even in the hospital until months later). If he doesn't, she's threatening to sue him for the back child support (essentially from 1984-1995).
I have no idea if she's even consulted a lawyer at this point. She and I are very nearly estranged due to the things she's decided she's angry with me about. I do think that at least one motivation for the anger at my father is that she's jealous of my very healthy and loving relationship with my father. My mother is a volatile, unpredictable person with a strong sense of having been done wrong in life, and she's currently on a mission to 'even the score' with everyone she thinks has ever mistreated her. My father has yet to respond to her letter because he's afraid of antagonizing her... and equally afraid that not responding is also antagonizing her.
So the question is... does my mother have a legal leg to stand on? She never filed any complaints about child support arrearage while I was under 18. I'm curious to hear from anyone with related legal expertise, of course, but also folks with anecdotal information about their experiences in California family court.
Anyone who wants to take a stab at the insane human relations aspect of this is also welcome to jump in. Throwaway email? Why certainly... ca.support.14.years.later@gmail.com
Here's some information:
http://www.child-support-collections.com/statutes/california.html
It suggests that those past due payments can still be collected.
If she does decide to go forward on this, it would be advisable for your father to get a lawyer.
posted by abdulf at 5:44 PM on April 12, 2009
http://www.child-support-collections.com/statutes/california.html
It suggests that those past due payments can still be collected.
If she does decide to go forward on this, it would be advisable for your father to get a lawyer.
posted by abdulf at 5:44 PM on April 12, 2009
If this website is correct, there is no statutory limitation period for collecting child support in California. So yeah, your dad should probably talk to a lawyer.
(IAAL, IANYL, TINLA)
posted by AV at 5:49 PM on April 12, 2009
(IAAL, IANYL, TINLA)
posted by AV at 5:49 PM on April 12, 2009
I can't find the statutory provision in California's code, but here are two websites which suggest that there is no statute of limitations for court-ordered child support. Such support is, at least in theory, enforceable until paid in full. This would, as far as I can tell, establish a prima facie case which would at least get her in the courtroom. I have no idea whether or not she'd win, but it sounds to me like she has a case which passes the laugh test.
Your dad probably needs to lawyer up, especially cause I'm not a lawyer, and certainly not one who knows anything about family law in California. Retaining someone who is is the only way to get things like your mother's violation of the custody agreement to be considered in your father's favor. Family law is just a mess. No two ways about it.
There's another thing going on here though, something which you don't seem to have considered: she's using the threat of legal action on one issue to exact payment on a different issue. Using the threat of frivolous litigation to coerce someone to do something is illegal, but using the threat of legitimate litigation isn't. Your mother as, it appears to me, the makings of a sound legal argument for the child support, but not for the health bill. She's using the threat of enforcing her arguable rights to get something to which she probably isn't entitled, or even if she was at one point, for which the statute of limitations has long since expired.
That's just not cool, but I don't think it's illegal. The problem here is that if your father caves, she's likely to continue to use that threat to exact payments for other "expenses" she says she ought to be compensated for. Unless this sword of Damocles of litigation is dealt with, she's going to be able to use this to get at your father again and again. On that basis, I think it's probably in your dad's best interest to get him that lawyer now, and deal with this threat before it gets out of hand. Settlement is a real possibility.
posted by valkyryn at 6:02 PM on April 12, 2009 [2 favorites]
Your dad probably needs to lawyer up, especially cause I'm not a lawyer, and certainly not one who knows anything about family law in California. Retaining someone who is is the only way to get things like your mother's violation of the custody agreement to be considered in your father's favor. Family law is just a mess. No two ways about it.
There's another thing going on here though, something which you don't seem to have considered: she's using the threat of legal action on one issue to exact payment on a different issue. Using the threat of frivolous litigation to coerce someone to do something is illegal, but using the threat of legitimate litigation isn't. Your mother as, it appears to me, the makings of a sound legal argument for the child support, but not for the health bill. She's using the threat of enforcing her arguable rights to get something to which she probably isn't entitled, or even if she was at one point, for which the statute of limitations has long since expired.
That's just not cool, but I don't think it's illegal. The problem here is that if your father caves, she's likely to continue to use that threat to exact payments for other "expenses" she says she ought to be compensated for. Unless this sword of Damocles of litigation is dealt with, she's going to be able to use this to get at your father again and again. On that basis, I think it's probably in your dad's best interest to get him that lawyer now, and deal with this threat before it gets out of hand. Settlement is a real possibility.
posted by valkyryn at 6:02 PM on April 12, 2009 [2 favorites]
I would leave this between your parents. They should have made formal agreements then, and they need to find appropriate lawyers now. But it isn't your problem one way or another, and you shouldn't feel guilty about it. Don't take sides, don't get caught in the middle, and if you're asked, just try to give generic advice (talk to a lawyer, try to negotiate, etc)
And don't let your good relationship with your dad make it impossible to have a good relationship with your mom, just because the two of them have a bad relationship. It's easy to see one side of things when you get along with one person better, but it's possible your mom has a side of the story too. Let the lawyers decide and get on with your own life.
posted by mdn at 6:29 PM on April 12, 2009
And don't let your good relationship with your dad make it impossible to have a good relationship with your mom, just because the two of them have a bad relationship. It's easy to see one side of things when you get along with one person better, but it's possible your mom has a side of the story too. Let the lawyers decide and get on with your own life.
posted by mdn at 6:29 PM on April 12, 2009
If she does sue him and win, that money is not hers. Child support is money for the child. It's YOUR money. So, she could sue him, win, get money, give it to you (as she should) and then you can write a check and give it all back to your father.
posted by asockpuppet at 7:35 PM on April 12, 2009 [3 favorites]
posted by asockpuppet at 7:35 PM on April 12, 2009 [3 favorites]
I don't know about the legal situation, but how your mom behaves towards your dad is her deal, not yours. Whether she's nice to him or not, that's not your doing.
And I agree with valkyryn, your dad needs to talk to a lawyer now.
posted by zippy at 7:42 PM on April 12, 2009
And I agree with valkyryn, your dad needs to talk to a lawyer now.
posted by zippy at 7:42 PM on April 12, 2009
Don't know if it matters in court, but if you were/are aware of their arrangement, payments, etc. then perhaps your testimony could be called, or you could submit a written statement in support of the previous agreement.
Lawyer sounds like a necessity, but perhaps a mediation might help? She sounds desperate, and perhaps would be willing to sign something permanently absolving your father of any past due child support as based on their previous agreement if she is given a payment to cover her needs (for the past bill). This way, he is saved a lawsuit and she gets her money, and no more child support business later.
posted by anniek at 8:13 PM on April 12, 2009
Lawyer sounds like a necessity, but perhaps a mediation might help? She sounds desperate, and perhaps would be willing to sign something permanently absolving your father of any past due child support as based on their previous agreement if she is given a payment to cover her needs (for the past bill). This way, he is saved a lawsuit and she gets her money, and no more child support business later.
posted by anniek at 8:13 PM on April 12, 2009
If she does sue him and win, that money is not hers. Child support is money for the child. It's YOUR money.
In a sense, this is true. But the mother presumably spent her own money raising the child, so the payment of any arrearage would be money that is due to HER not the child.
My mother, being both volatile and in some financial difficulty, has decided that she is angry about the fact that my father didn't pay child support. She never mentioned this to him while I was under 18.
I would suggest that you resist the urge to view this as "crazy mom being unreasonable." If your dad has a substantial child support arrearage, then your mother shouldered a bigger burden than she should have, and it's not unreasonable for her to think, "hey, that's money that is owed to me."
posted by jayder at 8:15 PM on April 12, 2009
In a sense, this is true. But the mother presumably spent her own money raising the child, so the payment of any arrearage would be money that is due to HER not the child.
My mother, being both volatile and in some financial difficulty, has decided that she is angry about the fact that my father didn't pay child support. She never mentioned this to him while I was under 18.
I would suggest that you resist the urge to view this as "crazy mom being unreasonable." If your dad has a substantial child support arrearage, then your mother shouldered a bigger burden than she should have, and it's not unreasonable for her to think, "hey, that's money that is owed to me."
posted by jayder at 8:15 PM on April 12, 2009
Jayder is almost certainly correct about the money not actually going to the child. However if your mother is as unstable and irrational as you're intimating, and the certified letter she sent was written by her and just sent certified mail, not through a lawyer, you might be able to get her to back off with a well prefaced bluff. Just call her up and sound her out about if she's talked to a lawyer. If the answer's no, I'd just work it into the conversation that it is *child* support, and any money she was able to extract would belong to you, not her.
It is a bluff. But if she's not being coldly calculating about this, instead running hot with emotion and looking for an easy way to settle an imaginary score, this might inject enough imagined complexity into her mental equation that the scenario is no longer appealing enough to pursue. On the other hand, it might also push her into action, but you're a better judge of her character in this regard than any of us.
posted by barc0001 at 1:47 AM on April 13, 2009
It is a bluff. But if she's not being coldly calculating about this, instead running hot with emotion and looking for an easy way to settle an imaginary score, this might inject enough imagined complexity into her mental equation that the scenario is no longer appealing enough to pursue. On the other hand, it might also push her into action, but you're a better judge of her character in this regard than any of us.
posted by barc0001 at 1:47 AM on April 13, 2009
I'm left wondering what on earth a medical bill from 1991 has to do with anything. The statute of limitations expired on that a loooong time ago. She can't be made to pay it, unless there's been an outstanding judgment against her for all these years.
Not particularly responsive to the question, but it does go to the credibility of the mother.
posted by wierdo at 9:05 AM on April 13, 2009
Not particularly responsive to the question, but it does go to the credibility of the mother.
posted by wierdo at 9:05 AM on April 13, 2009
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It's probably a good idea to consult a lawyer, empty threats or otherwise.
posted by spiderskull at 5:23 PM on April 12, 2009