OMG!! Not again!
April 3, 2009 11:24 AM Subscribe
How do I keep ending up with the same guy?
This should be easy, look for similar traits, look at my choices and see where I am repeating behaviors. I am trying to make healthier choices in all my relationships and yet.... I am still missing something obviously.
Shouldn't being friends with someone before you get involved with them eliminate being blindsided down the road?
Details:
I am a woman in my mid 30's, I'm lucky to have great relationships with my family and friends.
It's the relationships with men where I am running into trouble..
These relationships are with men who are smart, funny, interesting, considerate (all have been employed and functional in society)... over time, while the first 3 things are true they actually turn out to be selfish and manipulative.
The beginning starts out, usually, as very strong friendships so by the time we are involved as more than friends there is already a good base of understanding about each other (or so I think). There are usually mutual interests and some mutual friends. We really enjoy each other and seem to appreciate the details - I feel valued in the beginning and respected.
At first they say that they find me easy to talk to and not given to drama, funny and comfortable in my own skin, and that I am always there when they need me.
I am not an overly demanding person - I have my own friends and interests so I don't need to be entertained or in the company of the person I am with 24/7. Having said that when I am involved with someone I make myself available and do love to spend time with just that person or out doing things we both enjoy with friends. I'm really very easy going about those kinds of situations.
So things seems great.. and I relax, let my guard down.
That is when things start to change... here are a few examples of what I mean.
(these specific examples are from the most recent relationship although these are pretty much the same issues I've had in the prior relationships)
-If a day or two goes by and we haven't touched base I will call to say hi - this apparently is me being needy or controlling , regardless of the fact that in the weeks and months prior he called me 2 or 3 times a day 'just to say hi or because he was bored at work'
-If I get a call from a mutual friend to make plans that include us both there is pouting or the silent treatment because I got the call and he did not.
- Tentative plans are just that and if they change or something comes up I'm totally cool with that, but when we've made specific plans progressively he is late or does not show up at all, calling sometimes to cancel but more often than not just doesn't show.
-And eventually they start asking to borrow money...
They just turn out to be so different than who they were when we were just friends...
Oh - should give you some details around the duration of these relationships.
1st - close friends for 3 years and involved for 2
2nd - friends for 3 very close for 1 of those and involved for 1 year
most recent - friends for a year and then involved for 6 months at which time I knew where we were headed so I ended it. (that was a month ago)
I hope I've given enough detail here.. if you see a glaring pattern that I am missing, other than that they all start as friendships, please let me know. If you think that's the problem then I'll need to look at that - don't know how to do it differently really but I'll take all the advise I can get..
Thanks so much for your thoughts and input...
This should be easy, look for similar traits, look at my choices and see where I am repeating behaviors. I am trying to make healthier choices in all my relationships and yet.... I am still missing something obviously.
Shouldn't being friends with someone before you get involved with them eliminate being blindsided down the road?
Details:
I am a woman in my mid 30's, I'm lucky to have great relationships with my family and friends.
It's the relationships with men where I am running into trouble..
These relationships are with men who are smart, funny, interesting, considerate (all have been employed and functional in society)... over time, while the first 3 things are true they actually turn out to be selfish and manipulative.
The beginning starts out, usually, as very strong friendships so by the time we are involved as more than friends there is already a good base of understanding about each other (or so I think). There are usually mutual interests and some mutual friends. We really enjoy each other and seem to appreciate the details - I feel valued in the beginning and respected.
At first they say that they find me easy to talk to and not given to drama, funny and comfortable in my own skin, and that I am always there when they need me.
I am not an overly demanding person - I have my own friends and interests so I don't need to be entertained or in the company of the person I am with 24/7. Having said that when I am involved with someone I make myself available and do love to spend time with just that person or out doing things we both enjoy with friends. I'm really very easy going about those kinds of situations.
So things seems great.. and I relax, let my guard down.
That is when things start to change... here are a few examples of what I mean.
(these specific examples are from the most recent relationship although these are pretty much the same issues I've had in the prior relationships)
-If a day or two goes by and we haven't touched base I will call to say hi - this apparently is me being needy or controlling , regardless of the fact that in the weeks and months prior he called me 2 or 3 times a day 'just to say hi or because he was bored at work'
-If I get a call from a mutual friend to make plans that include us both there is pouting or the silent treatment because I got the call and he did not.
- Tentative plans are just that and if they change or something comes up I'm totally cool with that, but when we've made specific plans progressively he is late or does not show up at all, calling sometimes to cancel but more often than not just doesn't show.
-And eventually they start asking to borrow money...
They just turn out to be so different than who they were when we were just friends...
Oh - should give you some details around the duration of these relationships.
1st - close friends for 3 years and involved for 2
2nd - friends for 3 very close for 1 of those and involved for 1 year
most recent - friends for a year and then involved for 6 months at which time I knew where we were headed so I ended it. (that was a month ago)
I hope I've given enough detail here.. if you see a glaring pattern that I am missing, other than that they all start as friendships, please let me know. If you think that's the problem then I'll need to look at that - don't know how to do it differently really but I'll take all the advise I can get..
Thanks so much for your thoughts and input...
That's really weird that somehow you had the same type of things happen to you 3 times with close friends.
Maybe these are just the type of guys that are attracted into your circle of friends. Do any of your girlfriends have similar experiences? These guys might just be walking all over you because they can...like a doormat syndrome.
I say maybe try dating a guy that you aren't very close friends with and see what happens. Meet somebody new that already has their own circle of friends, etc. That should at least alleviate a few of the problems.
posted by zephyr_words at 11:34 AM on April 3, 2009
Maybe these are just the type of guys that are attracted into your circle of friends. Do any of your girlfriends have similar experiences? These guys might just be walking all over you because they can...like a doormat syndrome.
I say maybe try dating a guy that you aren't very close friends with and see what happens. Meet somebody new that already has their own circle of friends, etc. That should at least alleviate a few of the problems.
posted by zephyr_words at 11:34 AM on April 3, 2009
I don't know where things are going wrong for you because quite frankly *I* almost married that guy.
However, I would suggest trying out online dating and finding someone with a few similar interests but not too many, someone different enough that he wouldn't be instant friend material.
I accidentally did this myself, which is how I met mr. crankylex. :-)
posted by crankylex at 11:39 AM on April 3, 2009
However, I would suggest trying out online dating and finding someone with a few similar interests but not too many, someone different enough that he wouldn't be instant friend material.
I accidentally did this myself, which is how I met mr. crankylex. :-)
posted by crankylex at 11:39 AM on April 3, 2009
You don't keep dating the same guy... they keep dating the same girl.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 11:43 AM on April 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 11:43 AM on April 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
I used to do this same thing, picking out the same type and finding out that they had defects that I couldn't tolerate. I did it several times and ended two long term relationships over this.
I went into short term therapy with a person who had a good reputation on relationships. There is a reason you keep picking the same person, and you need to figure out what it is. It wasn't hard for me to see once I understood, but it was almost two years until I found the right person.
I also have some friends that have met through on-line dating services and this has worked out surprisingly well.
I married a great person, very different from my past choices, and I am very happy today about it.
posted by chocolatetiara at 11:46 AM on April 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
I went into short term therapy with a person who had a good reputation on relationships. There is a reason you keep picking the same person, and you need to figure out what it is. It wasn't hard for me to see once I understood, but it was almost two years until I found the right person.
I also have some friends that have met through on-line dating services and this has worked out surprisingly well.
I married a great person, very different from my past choices, and I am very happy today about it.
posted by chocolatetiara at 11:46 AM on April 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
Oh, and before my answer gets deleted, I'll put it another way. If you don't want to date guys who borrow money and stand you up, don't be the kind of woman who puts up with those things. You say you repeatedly get stood up? What the fuck are you doing dating anyone who stands you up? Stop giving your boyfriends the impression that it's okay for them to stand you up. You do this by leaving them when they do it, not by asking when your next dinner date is.
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 11:46 AM on April 3, 2009 [24 favorites]
posted by You Should See the Other Guy at 11:46 AM on April 3, 2009 [24 favorites]
if you see a glaring pattern that I am missing
Look in a mirror or a similar shiny object. That person staring back at you is the common denominator in all three instances.
Whether you know it or admit it or not, you are choosing these guys based on their similar traits. Surprise, they're all reacting the same way, because you have chosen this type of person.
It's like all the guys you chose surprise you with their secret hatred of puppies, and you're not realizing that you're only getting your date-em list from the I Hate Puppies Club Local Chapter #123.
Choose different. You like bookish, nerdy intellectuals? Date a firefighter.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:48 AM on April 3, 2009 [3 favorites]
Look in a mirror or a similar shiny object. That person staring back at you is the common denominator in all three instances.
Whether you know it or admit it or not, you are choosing these guys based on their similar traits. Surprise, they're all reacting the same way, because you have chosen this type of person.
It's like all the guys you chose surprise you with their secret hatred of puppies, and you're not realizing that you're only getting your date-em list from the I Hate Puppies Club Local Chapter #123.
Choose different. You like bookish, nerdy intellectuals? Date a firefighter.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 11:48 AM on April 3, 2009 [3 favorites]
It sounds more like a question of why you keep having guys end the relationship in the same way.
As to why people might act differently in a friendship then a relationship, well, obviously people have different expectation about the level of commitment and responsibility.
posted by delmoi at 11:49 AM on April 3, 2009
As to why people might act differently in a friendship then a relationship, well, obviously people have different expectation about the level of commitment and responsibility.
posted by delmoi at 11:49 AM on April 3, 2009
@You Should See the Other Guy:
Yeah I agree with you.
I probably should have bolded my "These guys might just be walking all over you because they can..."
posted by zephyr_words at 11:49 AM on April 3, 2009
Yeah I agree with you.
I probably should have bolded my "These guys might just be walking all over you because they can..."
posted by zephyr_words at 11:49 AM on April 3, 2009
There's not a whole lot of info here. No biggie, it's hard to condense years down to a few paragraphs. That said and keeping in mind that I'm only getting one side of the story, I say this:
It could be a string of bad luck.
It could be that you're missing some type of social cues or have a blindspot which they notice and are able to exploit. The only odd point this I can spot in your post is this: "These relationships are with men who are smart, funny, interesting, considerate (all have been employed and functional in society)... " . I have no idea if you fumbled a sentence or what, but being considerate has nothing to do with being employed or functional in society, so I wonder if you're seeking out men who fit a certain type and ignoring many of their other qualities because they're "employed and functional in society," whatever that means exactly to you.
Whatever, here's the key point, based on this; "I'm lucky to have great relationships with my family and friends."
What are your family and friends saying about these guys? Are they noticing anything and are they telling you? Are they meeting these guys? What are the mutual friends saying about him? About YOU? Are these guys behaving the same way with other women? What's their past history with women been like? These are questions you need to be asking and find out the answers to. You can't be getting repeatedly blindsided unless there's some aspect you're consistently missing.
I'm really very easy going about those kinds of situations.
You know, it's possible to be too easy going. Sometimes you just have to put your foot down just so people know not to take advantage of you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:51 AM on April 3, 2009 [3 favorites]
It could be a string of bad luck.
It could be that you're missing some type of social cues or have a blindspot which they notice and are able to exploit. The only odd point this I can spot in your post is this: "These relationships are with men who are smart, funny, interesting, considerate (all have been employed and functional in society)... " . I have no idea if you fumbled a sentence or what, but being considerate has nothing to do with being employed or functional in society, so I wonder if you're seeking out men who fit a certain type and ignoring many of their other qualities because they're "employed and functional in society," whatever that means exactly to you.
Whatever, here's the key point, based on this; "I'm lucky to have great relationships with my family and friends."
What are your family and friends saying about these guys? Are they noticing anything and are they telling you? Are they meeting these guys? What are the mutual friends saying about him? About YOU? Are these guys behaving the same way with other women? What's their past history with women been like? These are questions you need to be asking and find out the answers to. You can't be getting repeatedly blindsided unless there's some aspect you're consistently missing.
I'm really very easy going about those kinds of situations.
You know, it's possible to be too easy going. Sometimes you just have to put your foot down just so people know not to take advantage of you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:51 AM on April 3, 2009 [3 favorites]
Have you tried online dating? (OKCupid is the MeFi favorite. Match, et al kinda suck) It takes care of the big compatibility issues upfront for the most part if you're discriminating, but otherwise forces you to look at people that aren't exactly like the people you're used to meeting or hanging out with if you have a fairly set social circle. Results will be better if you live in a mediumish to largeish urban area.
posted by slow graffiti at 11:56 AM on April 3, 2009
posted by slow graffiti at 11:56 AM on April 3, 2009
-If a day or two goes by and we haven't touched base I will call to say hi - this apparently is me being needy or controlling , regardless of the fact that in the weeks and months prior he called me 2 or 3 times a day 'just to say hi or because he was bored at work'
-If I get a call from a mutual friend to make plans that include us both there is pouting or the silent treatment because I got the call and he did not.
- Tentative plans are just that and if they change or something comes up I'm totally cool with that, but when we've made specific plans progressively he is late or does not show up at all, calling sometimes to cancel but more often than not just doesn't show.
-And eventually they start asking to borrow money...
There's nothing weird about any of your behaviors here. They're appropriate. Just wanted to say that: it's not you being needy or controlling. Yours are normal relationship behavior, the guys' are...not good news.
I too would suggest looking outside your friend group. Sometimes those relationships that 'just happen' when you seem to grow close are really about someone taking advantage of someone who seems easy to become intimate with, since you already know each other. The fact that the guys haven't had to work all that hard to get involved with you, and that you (apparently) haven't been your own agent out there seeking someone whose values you share, might both be sorting factors that make it more likely that guys with issues are attracted to you. You're right there, you're open to it, they've got wishes they want fulfilled, you seem to like them, hey why not.
But this gradual evolution into relationship thing, despite what a bazillion romantic comedies would have us believe, isn't really always a great start to a good relationship. It's more of a default/fallback in no one really has to take responsibility for putting themselves out there as potential dating material. The bar is set too low. In other words, it might be that you could do a lot better than these guys - but because of some reason, maybe that you aren't secure enough to reach out to the wider world of potential partners, maybe because you're a little afraid of relationships, maybe because you don't prioritize relationships very highly, maybe because you're pressed for time, (could be a bunch of things), you don't end up pursuing the guys that would be better. Instead you may end up settling for guys who are just...around a lot. And those tend to be the ones who have less to offer (or feel they do) -- because if they didn't think that about themselves, well, they might be out working on dating somebody fabulous too.
I could be reading this totally wrong, I admit. It's hard to tell a lot without knowing you. But it just has the aura of a lot of settling going on. For myself, I used to be pretty insecure and never pursued relationships. I also had romantic ideas about friendships becoming "so much more..." and how great that was. Turns out those guys were sort of incapable of having real relationships and just felt safer, less out on a limb, with me - thought that because we were so chill and all, I would forgive their shortcomings as partners, and just really didn't feel like trying any harder. Turns out that the guys I dated purposefully after "learning" to date in my 30s were head and shoulders better guys than the ones that just sort of were ....around.
So maybe think about being a proactive dating situation, rather than a reactive one. You don't want someone whose boundaries are so inconsistent that you're on the phone 3 times one week, being called "clingy" the next. You want one that honors your time. You want someone who knows they want to be in a relationship and knows they want it to be with you. You want someone who doesn't miss your dates and ignore your communications. You want someone emotionally secure, who won't feel jealous when a mutual friend gets in touch with you - who will be happy instead. You want someone mature. And you want someone who is self-supporting.
It's not crazy to want those things. So go looking for them. Be really clear about them. Stop settling. And when someone does that stuff to you - the "clingy" accusation, the jealous pout, the standing you up - put the brakes on right away and say "Whoa. What is this about? I don't like it. It's not okay with me. We need to work on it and make that change, because I can't do it. If we can't change that dynamic, I'm out." It's totally fair to ask to be treated well. This type of guy can't do it - that's why he's trying to just fall into easy interactions where you're already friends - so stay away from this type of guy. Look for guys who can. They're out there. You have to know what you want and stand up for it, though. And go after it.
posted by Miko at 12:00 PM on April 3, 2009 [25 favorites]
-If I get a call from a mutual friend to make plans that include us both there is pouting or the silent treatment because I got the call and he did not.
- Tentative plans are just that and if they change or something comes up I'm totally cool with that, but when we've made specific plans progressively he is late or does not show up at all, calling sometimes to cancel but more often than not just doesn't show.
-And eventually they start asking to borrow money...
There's nothing weird about any of your behaviors here. They're appropriate. Just wanted to say that: it's not you being needy or controlling. Yours are normal relationship behavior, the guys' are...not good news.
I too would suggest looking outside your friend group. Sometimes those relationships that 'just happen' when you seem to grow close are really about someone taking advantage of someone who seems easy to become intimate with, since you already know each other. The fact that the guys haven't had to work all that hard to get involved with you, and that you (apparently) haven't been your own agent out there seeking someone whose values you share, might both be sorting factors that make it more likely that guys with issues are attracted to you. You're right there, you're open to it, they've got wishes they want fulfilled, you seem to like them, hey why not.
But this gradual evolution into relationship thing, despite what a bazillion romantic comedies would have us believe, isn't really always a great start to a good relationship. It's more of a default/fallback in no one really has to take responsibility for putting themselves out there as potential dating material. The bar is set too low. In other words, it might be that you could do a lot better than these guys - but because of some reason, maybe that you aren't secure enough to reach out to the wider world of potential partners, maybe because you're a little afraid of relationships, maybe because you don't prioritize relationships very highly, maybe because you're pressed for time, (could be a bunch of things), you don't end up pursuing the guys that would be better. Instead you may end up settling for guys who are just...around a lot. And those tend to be the ones who have less to offer (or feel they do) -- because if they didn't think that about themselves, well, they might be out working on dating somebody fabulous too.
I could be reading this totally wrong, I admit. It's hard to tell a lot without knowing you. But it just has the aura of a lot of settling going on. For myself, I used to be pretty insecure and never pursued relationships. I also had romantic ideas about friendships becoming "so much more..." and how great that was. Turns out those guys were sort of incapable of having real relationships and just felt safer, less out on a limb, with me - thought that because we were so chill and all, I would forgive their shortcomings as partners, and just really didn't feel like trying any harder. Turns out that the guys I dated purposefully after "learning" to date in my 30s were head and shoulders better guys than the ones that just sort of were ....around.
So maybe think about being a proactive dating situation, rather than a reactive one. You don't want someone whose boundaries are so inconsistent that you're on the phone 3 times one week, being called "clingy" the next. You want one that honors your time. You want someone who knows they want to be in a relationship and knows they want it to be with you. You want someone who doesn't miss your dates and ignore your communications. You want someone emotionally secure, who won't feel jealous when a mutual friend gets in touch with you - who will be happy instead. You want someone mature. And you want someone who is self-supporting.
It's not crazy to want those things. So go looking for them. Be really clear about them. Stop settling. And when someone does that stuff to you - the "clingy" accusation, the jealous pout, the standing you up - put the brakes on right away and say "Whoa. What is this about? I don't like it. It's not okay with me. We need to work on it and make that change, because I can't do it. If we can't change that dynamic, I'm out." It's totally fair to ask to be treated well. This type of guy can't do it - that's why he's trying to just fall into easy interactions where you're already friends - so stay away from this type of guy. Look for guys who can. They're out there. You have to know what you want and stand up for it, though. And go after it.
posted by Miko at 12:00 PM on April 3, 2009 [25 favorites]
"I'm lucky to have great relationships with my family and friends."
What are your family and friends saying about these guys? Are they noticing anything and are they telling you? Are they meeting these guys? What are the mutual friends saying about him? About YOU? Are these guys behaving the same way with other women? What's their past history with women been like? These are questions you need to be asking and find out the answers to. You can't be getting repeatedly blindsided unless there's some aspect you're consistently missing.
I think the above was extremely insightful.
Also, I was wondering why all 3 relationships began with such long friendships? Generally, employed and functional guys will make a move on an interest pretty quickly. There are always exceptions, changing circumstances, etc, but 3 in a row is curious.
posted by everythings_interrelated at 12:00 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
What are your family and friends saying about these guys? Are they noticing anything and are they telling you? Are they meeting these guys? What are the mutual friends saying about him? About YOU? Are these guys behaving the same way with other women? What's their past history with women been like? These are questions you need to be asking and find out the answers to. You can't be getting repeatedly blindsided unless there's some aspect you're consistently missing.
I think the above was extremely insightful.
Also, I was wondering why all 3 relationships began with such long friendships? Generally, employed and functional guys will make a move on an interest pretty quickly. There are always exceptions, changing circumstances, etc, but 3 in a row is curious.
posted by everythings_interrelated at 12:00 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Long ago and far away, back when I was in college, I was part of a social group where all the women strove to be "low maintenance" because all the guys in the group talked about what a pain in the ass "high maintenance girls" were. Because we were young, we sometimes took it too far. In an effort to not be too much, we were often spineless and took a lot of crap. The high maintenance girls got all the respect. We couldn't figure it out.
Things have equalized a bit in my age; being too demanding and drama-filled is garbage, but the lesson from that era of my life stands. These days, if I got the needy line for calling after 2 days, I would answer with "this is not needy--this is what boyfriends and girlfriends do. If you think this is needy, you have some things to sort out for yourself. Call me when you get through with that" and let him deal. You don't have time for this shit. Make that clear.
posted by oflinkey at 12:01 PM on April 3, 2009 [26 favorites]
Things have equalized a bit in my age; being too demanding and drama-filled is garbage, but the lesson from that era of my life stands. These days, if I got the needy line for calling after 2 days, I would answer with "this is not needy--this is what boyfriends and girlfriends do. If you think this is needy, you have some things to sort out for yourself. Call me when you get through with that" and let him deal. You don't have time for this shit. Make that clear.
posted by oflinkey at 12:01 PM on April 3, 2009 [26 favorites]
I'd be interested in knowing how your relationships typically end. I'm guessing that the guy usually breaks up with you. The feeling I'm getting is that the needs aren't symmetrical—that you need the guy more than the guy needs you. When this is the case, it's amazing how fast the more independent one can become neglectful and even abusive. It's really a mild form of Stockholm Syndrome. My only suggestion would be that, if I'm right, you try to get to the bottom of your desperation so you're not at a power disadvantage.
posted by markcmyers at 12:07 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by markcmyers at 12:07 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
When people respond to relationship AskMe questions with "see a therapist", I often think it's not because therapy is some be-all-end-all miracle cure for all things. It's just that humans are complicated and you could fill a book with your experiences and ultimately you'd leave things out and run the things you do include through your own personal filter in the hopes of making yourself look better. A good therapist will push through the bullshit and ask the questions that you are often afraid to ask yourself. This may take a long time--more time than it takes to read an AskMe question and type out an answer.
So my simple reply is, if you want to know why you end up dating the same type of guys, go talk to a therapist. You'd be perfectly fine without seeing one and there's no reason to think you'll never have a good relationship if you don't bother. But if you're curious, it couldn't hurt.
With that said, I have an interpretation, based on my own personal experiences and those of my friends, so if you'll indulge me:
I'm a firm believer in the idea that we always want to be in the relationship we're currently in even if we claim that we're unhappy about it. Even the most unhealthy relationship sates a secret need (fear of being alone, fear of having to reject someone, reinforcement of low self-esteem, need to feel like a martyr, need to feel superior to someone, etc.). Not only that, but I think our behaviors subconsciously point us towards those relationships, either in our choice of partners or in the way we react to our partner's actions.
So on a very abstract level, I'd say there is something about your personality that seeks out relationships with needy men. If I were to totally armchair analyze it, I'd guess you like feeling needed and probably give of yourself a little too freely (in time or money or what have you), until before you know it you're giving too much of yourself and don't know how to pull back.
If that's true (and I'd say it's a fairly common behavior and not necessarily a bad thing), then you could enter into relationships with this awareness and watch for the warning signs that let you know when things start going off the rails.
But like I said, with the little information provided here, I have no idea what those warning signs would be (or even if I'm anywhere close to being right) and some time with a therapist would probably be more helpful in answering those questions.
posted by turaho at 12:11 PM on April 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
So my simple reply is, if you want to know why you end up dating the same type of guys, go talk to a therapist. You'd be perfectly fine without seeing one and there's no reason to think you'll never have a good relationship if you don't bother. But if you're curious, it couldn't hurt.
With that said, I have an interpretation, based on my own personal experiences and those of my friends, so if you'll indulge me:
I'm a firm believer in the idea that we always want to be in the relationship we're currently in even if we claim that we're unhappy about it. Even the most unhealthy relationship sates a secret need (fear of being alone, fear of having to reject someone, reinforcement of low self-esteem, need to feel like a martyr, need to feel superior to someone, etc.). Not only that, but I think our behaviors subconsciously point us towards those relationships, either in our choice of partners or in the way we react to our partner's actions.
So on a very abstract level, I'd say there is something about your personality that seeks out relationships with needy men. If I were to totally armchair analyze it, I'd guess you like feeling needed and probably give of yourself a little too freely (in time or money or what have you), until before you know it you're giving too much of yourself and don't know how to pull back.
If that's true (and I'd say it's a fairly common behavior and not necessarily a bad thing), then you could enter into relationships with this awareness and watch for the warning signs that let you know when things start going off the rails.
But like I said, with the little information provided here, I have no idea what those warning signs would be (or even if I'm anywhere close to being right) and some time with a therapist would probably be more helpful in answering those questions.
posted by turaho at 12:11 PM on April 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
This is the part in your post that stood out to me as potentially part of your problem:
So things seems great.. and I relax, let my guard down.
That is when things start to change...
Like many women, I think you live in a bit of fear of being perceived as needy or overbearing. The fact that you have your guard up about it in the first place suggests a concern you have about it.
Is it possible that during the first few stages of a relationship, you are overcompensating about this concern? I think that this guard you have up attracts a certain kind of guy. Perhaps the type of guy that can say "phew. She won't be clingy. She'll be cool. And if I get into a spell and need to borrow money I'm sure she'll have my back..."
Of course this has probably been a problem for HIM in his past relationships, so he has his guard up about it as well. Cut to a few months down the line, when you are getting comfortable, and you both let your guards down and, well, there you have it.
Just a theory!
posted by pazazygeek at 12:13 PM on April 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
So things seems great.. and I relax, let my guard down.
That is when things start to change...
Like many women, I think you live in a bit of fear of being perceived as needy or overbearing. The fact that you have your guard up about it in the first place suggests a concern you have about it.
Is it possible that during the first few stages of a relationship, you are overcompensating about this concern? I think that this guard you have up attracts a certain kind of guy. Perhaps the type of guy that can say "phew. She won't be clingy. She'll be cool. And if I get into a spell and need to borrow money I'm sure she'll have my back..."
Of course this has probably been a problem for HIM in his past relationships, so he has his guard up about it as well. Cut to a few months down the line, when you are getting comfortable, and you both let your guards down and, well, there you have it.
Just a theory!
posted by pazazygeek at 12:13 PM on April 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
Of course we fall for the _feel_ of people in the first place (and hence tend to tumble into the same trap over and again) but there's nothing wrong with fine-tuning your checklist of things that don't go. Don't date anyone who does the pouting or the silent treatment thing (yuk), don't date anyone who borrows money. If you really dated the same kind of guy several times, you'll know how this behavior shows even before things go seriously wrong, no?
posted by Namlit at 12:27 PM on April 3, 2009
posted by Namlit at 12:27 PM on April 3, 2009
Also
Shouldn't being friends with someone before you get involved with them eliminate being blindsided down the road?
Nope. There are never any guarantees that you won't get blindsided in a relationship. Maybe you keep entering into these relationships because you're so afraid of being hurt that you're willing to settle for less in the assumption that it will eliminate this risk.
posted by turaho at 12:29 PM on April 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
Shouldn't being friends with someone before you get involved with them eliminate being blindsided down the road?
Nope. There are never any guarantees that you won't get blindsided in a relationship. Maybe you keep entering into these relationships because you're so afraid of being hurt that you're willing to settle for less in the assumption that it will eliminate this risk.
posted by turaho at 12:29 PM on April 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
Also, this line struck out for me:
At first they say that they find me easy to talk to and not given to drama, funny and comfortable in my own skin, and that I am always there when they need me.
So don't date guys who "need" you. If they need you, of course they will be needy. Also, try to find someone to date and date them, rather then being friends first. At least that way you'll find out what they're like as a SO rather then as a friend.
posted by delmoi at 1:00 PM on April 3, 2009
At first they say that they find me easy to talk to and not given to drama, funny and comfortable in my own skin, and that I am always there when they need me.
So don't date guys who "need" you. If they need you, of course they will be needy. Also, try to find someone to date and date them, rather then being friends first. At least that way you'll find out what they're like as a SO rather then as a friend.
posted by delmoi at 1:00 PM on April 3, 2009
I had the same problem with guys like that. I had to realize I was the one who found them . For me it was distant men, either geographically or emotionally distant. I won't put up with a jerk but I had a problem with intimacy and I still do, but I know it now :)
Try talking to a counselor about the types of guys you are dating and maybe even take a break. I spent about 3 years being single and used the time to learn about myself- the person who dated these guys who were either too far away in one way or another. It was liberating! I also learned I liked solitude, so I ended up marrying a man who worked the night shift and I was on days for a long time so we had emotional and physical closeness but I had enough time to myself so that I did not need to find someone distant for my needs.
posted by agentsarahjane at 1:02 PM on April 3, 2009 [3 favorites]
Try talking to a counselor about the types of guys you are dating and maybe even take a break. I spent about 3 years being single and used the time to learn about myself- the person who dated these guys who were either too far away in one way or another. It was liberating! I also learned I liked solitude, so I ended up marrying a man who worked the night shift and I was on days for a long time so we had emotional and physical closeness but I had enough time to myself so that I did not need to find someone distant for my needs.
posted by agentsarahjane at 1:02 PM on April 3, 2009 [3 favorites]
I think You Should See the Other Guy and oflinkey really nailed it above. You should be more assertive in your relationships- two days is not needy, both of you are allowed to make social engagements, and standing you up is ground for an immediate curb-kicking.
posted by mkultra at 1:08 PM on April 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by mkultra at 1:08 PM on April 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
Miko and agentsarahjane have nailed it.
posted by Think [Instrumental] at 1:25 PM on April 3, 2009
posted by Think [Instrumental] at 1:25 PM on April 3, 2009
I think you may find this book helpful - ignore the cheesy cover and title, that's how they sell these things. It's better inside. The book is actually about the idea of "lifetraps" - also known as "schemas" I think - childhood patterns that you unwittingly find yourself repeating in your adult life over and over again.
There's always the possibility that your problem was just a matter of luck - sometimes people have a series of bad relationships and think there's something wrong with them, when it was really just a series of people who were bad fits, and nothing more.
But when reading your question, a sentence kind of set the alarm bells ringing in my head: "At first they say... that I am always there when they need me." You then proceeded to further emphasize how undemanding you are, how easygoing. And how your relationships always end up with you feeling like you are taken for granted.
I wonder if you ever feel like you are always a carer of other people. I wonder if you had some kind of carer role in your family when you were young. Or if you weren't allowed to stand up for yourself in your family.
If a day or two goes by and we haven't touched base I will call to say hi - this apparently is me being needy or controlling , regardless of the fact that in the weeks and months prior he called me 2 or 3 times a day 'just to say hi or because he was bored at work.
Did you have a fight with him right after this happened? Did you believe that you deserved to be treated fairly, and stood up for what you deserved?
If you don't stand up for yourself, most people lose respect for you. I really wish it weren't the case - and there was a time when I would protest about how unfair it was, how people shouldn't be this way, how you should be able to be your fully caring, easygoing, giving self and expect the other person to give you the same. But that's just not how human nature works with most people. If you don't draw the line, people will push it further and further back - they probably don't even realise they're doing it, don't think of themselves as taking advantage of you, because they've simply got used to you as a person who is always there for their needs.
And never underestimate our subconscious's ability to seek out and repeat patterns. You're puzzled how even when they've been good friends to you, somehow they turn out to be bastards once you become romantically involved - but it may well be that even back when you were choosing to be friends with them, your subconscious recognised something about them that fit your pattern. And of course when you're just friends, there's more distance, it's easier to set boundaries, and they behave like good friends - until you get into a relationship with them, you both let your guard down, and they become fully themselves.
If any of this rings true, I would very much recommend the book I mentioned - it may not change your life overnight, but it'll give you insight into what may be your own pattern, and some ideas of what to watch out for so you can break it. I wish you well.
posted by dolca at 1:38 PM on April 3, 2009 [8 favorites]
There's always the possibility that your problem was just a matter of luck - sometimes people have a series of bad relationships and think there's something wrong with them, when it was really just a series of people who were bad fits, and nothing more.
But when reading your question, a sentence kind of set the alarm bells ringing in my head: "At first they say... that I am always there when they need me." You then proceeded to further emphasize how undemanding you are, how easygoing. And how your relationships always end up with you feeling like you are taken for granted.
I wonder if you ever feel like you are always a carer of other people. I wonder if you had some kind of carer role in your family when you were young. Or if you weren't allowed to stand up for yourself in your family.
If a day or two goes by and we haven't touched base I will call to say hi - this apparently is me being needy or controlling , regardless of the fact that in the weeks and months prior he called me 2 or 3 times a day 'just to say hi or because he was bored at work.
Did you have a fight with him right after this happened? Did you believe that you deserved to be treated fairly, and stood up for what you deserved?
If you don't stand up for yourself, most people lose respect for you. I really wish it weren't the case - and there was a time when I would protest about how unfair it was, how people shouldn't be this way, how you should be able to be your fully caring, easygoing, giving self and expect the other person to give you the same. But that's just not how human nature works with most people. If you don't draw the line, people will push it further and further back - they probably don't even realise they're doing it, don't think of themselves as taking advantage of you, because they've simply got used to you as a person who is always there for their needs.
And never underestimate our subconscious's ability to seek out and repeat patterns. You're puzzled how even when they've been good friends to you, somehow they turn out to be bastards once you become romantically involved - but it may well be that even back when you were choosing to be friends with them, your subconscious recognised something about them that fit your pattern. And of course when you're just friends, there's more distance, it's easier to set boundaries, and they behave like good friends - until you get into a relationship with them, you both let your guard down, and they become fully themselves.
If any of this rings true, I would very much recommend the book I mentioned - it may not change your life overnight, but it'll give you insight into what may be your own pattern, and some ideas of what to watch out for so you can break it. I wish you well.
posted by dolca at 1:38 PM on April 3, 2009 [8 favorites]
Try this on for size -- I've talked about it with a few women in my life who have had similar experiences, but with different types of guys. I also had a bunch of "bad boyfriends," but they were all different :-\ The following applied to me as well.
The two friends who are turning things around tell me that they alway caught a hint early on, but dismissed it or tried to be tolerant. They have certain things they really need (or need to avoid) in a relationship, yet they pretend or rationalize that what ought to be a dealbreaker isn't all that bad.
Do you second-guess your intuition? Do you have needs that you think aren't valid? Can you look back to the early weeks of your relationships and recall signs of things that became problems later on?
You're repeatedly doing or not doing something important. Be honest and sift through your past for evidence in yourself.
posted by wryly at 2:07 PM on April 3, 2009 [6 favorites]
The two friends who are turning things around tell me that they alway caught a hint early on, but dismissed it or tried to be tolerant. They have certain things they really need (or need to avoid) in a relationship, yet they pretend or rationalize that what ought to be a dealbreaker isn't all that bad.
Do you second-guess your intuition? Do you have needs that you think aren't valid? Can you look back to the early weeks of your relationships and recall signs of things that became problems later on?
You're repeatedly doing or not doing something important. Be honest and sift through your past for evidence in yourself.
posted by wryly at 2:07 PM on April 3, 2009 [6 favorites]
You might want to try this fill-in-the-blank exercise:
"The ONE good thing about dating a nice/smart/funny-but-eventually-cold-and-manpulative-guy is ___________________."
Try it a few times; most of the answers will seem absurd... and one will probably seem absurd, but somehow, emotionally, make a strange kind of sense.
If you keep winding up with the same sort of person, there's likely a reason behind it. It may not be a reason of which you consciously approve, so you might find it helpful to know what it is... so you can begin to change it.
posted by darth_tedious at 2:16 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
"The ONE good thing about dating a nice/smart/funny-but-eventually-cold-and-manpulative-guy is ___________________."
Try it a few times; most of the answers will seem absurd... and one will probably seem absurd, but somehow, emotionally, make a strange kind of sense.
If you keep winding up with the same sort of person, there's likely a reason behind it. It may not be a reason of which you consciously approve, so you might find it helpful to know what it is... so you can begin to change it.
posted by darth_tedious at 2:16 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
This could have been me a few years ago. After the umpteenth doofus broke my heart I went and had a big old dose of therapy. It helped me see the patterns I was creating and we worked on my self esteem issues. I've not yet met Mr Perfect but the guys I've dated post-therapy have been a hell of a lot better than pre-therapy. And Cool Papa Bell has a point - as someone who had a definite 'type', switching it up is great advice.
posted by poissonrouge at 3:00 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by poissonrouge at 3:00 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
So I have the exact same problem - whenever I get comfortable, no matter how long into the relationship - 2 weeks to even a year and a half, the second I think "wow this can actually work" is when they break up wth me for no reason - in their words "I don't know why, you're so great, but eh, I don't think I want to date you anymore.." even though I know I am acting the same as before. Anyway. Since I know that always happens to me, I realized, as Miko said:
"You don't want someone whose boundaries are so inconsistent that you're on the phone 3 times one week, being called "clingy" the next. You want one that honors your time. You want someone who knows they want to be in a relationship and knows they want it to be with you. You want someone who doesn't miss your dates and ignore your communications."
Realizing that that's what I want, and I don't necessarily want to hold on to a guy just to know that I can have a long term relationship if the guy doesn't feel all those things about me.
Just like in my question here, it can seem to you that since you're the common denominator that you must be the problem, but really, it's not. As people pointed out, it's just a numbers game, and you're not meant to spend the rest of your life with most people. You really seem like a great catch, a lot like me (ha, sounds stuck up, but I know it's true), and I know I'm not doing anything wrong, and while it seems like a crazy coincidence that the same stuff happens over and over, it's just horrible luck.
I can see how it might be a problem to be too open, or to be too easy going, how it seems that all the demanding girls get guys to worship them, but I also realize that's not me, I can't force myself to act that way, so one day I'm going to meet someone who appreciates that about me and won't want to cancel on me because he knows I won't get mad, or won't dump me because I'm comfortable calling him every day... and the guys I've dated up until now just weren't the right people. It's funny how I'm confidently typing this when I myself start questioning everything I might be doing wrong every few months. But yea, you seem like a sane 'normal' person, so just remember that you're not doing anything wrong, it's just a numbers game.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 7:37 PM on April 3, 2009
"You don't want someone whose boundaries are so inconsistent that you're on the phone 3 times one week, being called "clingy" the next. You want one that honors your time. You want someone who knows they want to be in a relationship and knows they want it to be with you. You want someone who doesn't miss your dates and ignore your communications."
Realizing that that's what I want, and I don't necessarily want to hold on to a guy just to know that I can have a long term relationship if the guy doesn't feel all those things about me.
Just like in my question here, it can seem to you that since you're the common denominator that you must be the problem, but really, it's not. As people pointed out, it's just a numbers game, and you're not meant to spend the rest of your life with most people. You really seem like a great catch, a lot like me (ha, sounds stuck up, but I know it's true), and I know I'm not doing anything wrong, and while it seems like a crazy coincidence that the same stuff happens over and over, it's just horrible luck.
I can see how it might be a problem to be too open, or to be too easy going, how it seems that all the demanding girls get guys to worship them, but I also realize that's not me, I can't force myself to act that way, so one day I'm going to meet someone who appreciates that about me and won't want to cancel on me because he knows I won't get mad, or won't dump me because I'm comfortable calling him every day... and the guys I've dated up until now just weren't the right people. It's funny how I'm confidently typing this when I myself start questioning everything I might be doing wrong every few months. But yea, you seem like a sane 'normal' person, so just remember that you're not doing anything wrong, it's just a numbers game.
posted by KateHasQuestions at 7:37 PM on April 3, 2009
At first they say that they find me easy to talk to and not given to drama,
Anyone who says they don't like drama is all about drama. That's a big fat warning sign.
posted by metastability at 7:45 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Anyone who says they don't like drama is all about drama. That's a big fat warning sign.
posted by metastability at 7:45 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
If someone stands you up, maybe give them one more chance if they have a really good excuse. But it has to be a really good excuse. Otherwise, or if it happens again, that's it. You only get one. If someone keeps doing that and you let them, you're creating a bad precedent where someone is using you, and chances are the relationship will continue to go down that path.
posted by krinklyfig at 7:55 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by krinklyfig at 7:55 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't know if this applies to you, but my first impressions (first and second time of seeing someone) are often much more accurate than my later thoughts. If you're the same, maybe try to tune into that with the next people you date?
posted by salvia at 12:25 AM on April 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by salvia at 12:25 AM on April 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
Not to get all Dear Abby on you but-- how do these men treat their mothers? With a sense of entitlement to caretaking, yet annoyance and disregard? Cherchez la mere.
posted by availablelight at 7:18 AM on April 4, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by availablelight at 7:18 AM on April 4, 2009 [4 favorites]
At first they say that they find me easy to talk to and not given to drama, funny and comfortable in my own skin, and that I am always there when they need me.
I am not an overly demanding person
It seems to me - just based on what little you have told us here - the common thread between these men is that they seem to be fundamentally self-centered: based on your description, it sounds like they view the relationship in terms of what you do for them, not what you together do for each other.
Being a low-maintenance sort of girl tends to attract these guys, because you don't ask much of them and so it's easy to get what they want without giving.
I may be girl-thinking and overanalyzing here, but I'd suggest looking for the motivation behind their actions: for example, you mention being confused by guys who call frequently and then disappear and tell you to bug off when you call them. It may not be "this is a guy who calls all the time" versus "this is a guy who does not like phone time," it may be he was bored or horny the first week and he's watching the NFL Draft the second week (or something like that). In other words: what they want out of you is different because what is convenient to them has changed, hence you get mixed messages. And because these guys are fundamentally self-centered, they don't consider what effect their actions are having on you.
Many many guys - many people - are not like that. I'd suggest you maybe just pay a bit more attention to whether you are giving more than you are getting, and standing up for yourself (which is different than being demanding - there is a whole lot of middle ground there).
As other commenters have suggested, though, you may just have had a run of bad dating luck. It happens. As Dan Savage likes to say, every relationship fails until one doesn't.
posted by AV at 8:17 AM on April 4, 2009 [3 favorites]
I am not an overly demanding person
It seems to me - just based on what little you have told us here - the common thread between these men is that they seem to be fundamentally self-centered: based on your description, it sounds like they view the relationship in terms of what you do for them, not what you together do for each other.
Being a low-maintenance sort of girl tends to attract these guys, because you don't ask much of them and so it's easy to get what they want without giving.
I may be girl-thinking and overanalyzing here, but I'd suggest looking for the motivation behind their actions: for example, you mention being confused by guys who call frequently and then disappear and tell you to bug off when you call them. It may not be "this is a guy who calls all the time" versus "this is a guy who does not like phone time," it may be he was bored or horny the first week and he's watching the NFL Draft the second week (or something like that). In other words: what they want out of you is different because what is convenient to them has changed, hence you get mixed messages. And because these guys are fundamentally self-centered, they don't consider what effect their actions are having on you.
Many many guys - many people - are not like that. I'd suggest you maybe just pay a bit more attention to whether you are giving more than you are getting, and standing up for yourself (which is different than being demanding - there is a whole lot of middle ground there).
As other commenters have suggested, though, you may just have had a run of bad dating luck. It happens. As Dan Savage likes to say, every relationship fails until one doesn't.
posted by AV at 8:17 AM on April 4, 2009 [3 favorites]
Also-- a guy who reserves the right to call you multiple times a day, and then accuses you of being clingy when you call after three days, is a control freak.
posted by availablelight at 8:45 AM on April 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by availablelight at 8:45 AM on April 4, 2009 [1 favorite]
Mod note: This is a follow up comment from anonymous.
OP here ... Thanks so much for taking the time to respond! There is a lot here that I need to consider and some things that, while not easy to hear, are pretty clearly on the mark.posted by cortex (staff) at 3:45 PM on April 4, 2009
I never thought that what i was doing was settling..these seemed like they were great friendships that would become great relationships. I can see though (and I can't believe how clearly now that it's been pointed out) that 1) there were signs from the beginning 2) I was choosing not to look at them and 3) I am the one who allows this by being too worried about the 'high maintenance' label.
So thanks hive mind.. Time for me to look at what I need to do to not be 'the same girl'.
This thread is closed to new comments.
You mention that these relationships all started out as friendships. Have these guys all been from the same circle (or extended circle) of friends? Birds fo a feather flocking together and all that, is it possible that you're just fishing in a bad pond?
It's cliche's, of course, but something like a dating service would be able to introduce you to men you might not otherwise meet.
posted by DWRoelands at 11:31 AM on April 3, 2009