How do I pick a major - work I love, classes I love, or a subject I love?
April 3, 2009 10:10 AM Subscribe
How do I pick a major? Work I love, classes I love, or a subject I love?
I'm a second semester sophomore at university, and I need to pick a major in roughly two weeks. I don't know what I want to do after I graduate, so the choice is difficult. I'm seriously considering three majors: Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Psychology, and English. The trouble is, my school doesn't have minors or double majors, and I can think of compelling arguments for and against each of the choices:
Bio:
For: I love the subject. I love being outside, and I love knowing about the plants and animals around me. I was convinced from ages 4-12 that all I wanted to do when I grew up was work in a green house. I used to run experiments in my garden. This is also the most useful of my possible choices, and it has an amazing semester abroad fieldwork program in Panama. And I can imagine wanting to know the material, so I can point out thing to my future grandkids while on family walks/picnics/vacations.
Against: I've taken all the prerequisites, but no classes in the department itself, and I'm worried that I'm not good enough at math/science, or that I'll get bogged down with those parts. (This wasn't an issue when I was younger, but my university is full of people who are actual geniuses - and I don't consider myself one of those people, though I'm generally pretty good at whatever I set my mind to) I don't want to be terrible at my major, and I don't want to start to get bored with my major.
Psych:
For: I find the classes really interesting, and I know I'm good at them. I can also think of several topics I'd be interested in exploring during the mandatory independent work, and a professor has offered to supervise both my junior and senior independent work without prompting.
Against: While I might want to research in this area, I really don't want to have any of the careers that are most heavily associated with this field, except maybe teaching.
English:
For: I love doing the work. The classes and the reading can be either hit or miss, but there's no better feeling than sitting down to write a paper, and realizing I actually have original, valid, important thoughts, and can back them up. I feel proud when I finish.
Against: What do you do with a degree in English? Also, because I haven't taken much in college, it would involve taking about 3 English courses per semester for my remaining time at university, and I'm not sure that I would be happy without enough time to pursue my other (very broad) interests.
So...What do I do?
I'm a second semester sophomore at university, and I need to pick a major in roughly two weeks. I don't know what I want to do after I graduate, so the choice is difficult. I'm seriously considering three majors: Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Psychology, and English. The trouble is, my school doesn't have minors or double majors, and I can think of compelling arguments for and against each of the choices:
Bio:
For: I love the subject. I love being outside, and I love knowing about the plants and animals around me. I was convinced from ages 4-12 that all I wanted to do when I grew up was work in a green house. I used to run experiments in my garden. This is also the most useful of my possible choices, and it has an amazing semester abroad fieldwork program in Panama. And I can imagine wanting to know the material, so I can point out thing to my future grandkids while on family walks/picnics/vacations.
Against: I've taken all the prerequisites, but no classes in the department itself, and I'm worried that I'm not good enough at math/science, or that I'll get bogged down with those parts. (This wasn't an issue when I was younger, but my university is full of people who are actual geniuses - and I don't consider myself one of those people, though I'm generally pretty good at whatever I set my mind to) I don't want to be terrible at my major, and I don't want to start to get bored with my major.
Psych:
For: I find the classes really interesting, and I know I'm good at them. I can also think of several topics I'd be interested in exploring during the mandatory independent work, and a professor has offered to supervise both my junior and senior independent work without prompting.
Against: While I might want to research in this area, I really don't want to have any of the careers that are most heavily associated with this field, except maybe teaching.
English:
For: I love doing the work. The classes and the reading can be either hit or miss, but there's no better feeling than sitting down to write a paper, and realizing I actually have original, valid, important thoughts, and can back them up. I feel proud when I finish.
Against: What do you do with a degree in English? Also, because I haven't taken much in college, it would involve taking about 3 English courses per semester for my remaining time at university, and I'm not sure that I would be happy without enough time to pursue my other (very broad) interests.
So...What do I do?
I would go with the one where the students and profs are most pumped. Which at your school is best department? I don't mean highest regarded, I mean that the profs are good and involved, the students are competitive and serious, etc. At my school the degree of engagement of the profs and students from one dept to another was super variable. This is the metric I used to pick a major (that I previously had no interest in) and I'm happy with the decision.
posted by jeb at 10:18 AM on April 3, 2009
posted by jeb at 10:18 AM on April 3, 2009
If your university has a career advisor, I'd highly recommend visiting them. They work with hundreds or many thousands of students going through the same dilemma each year.
Or you can just do what I did when I decided to drop computer science and choose psychology as a major. Hasn't really done anything for me since school, but the material was fascinating and I certainly enjoyed my classes.
posted by educatedslacker at 10:19 AM on April 3, 2009
Or you can just do what I did when I decided to drop computer science and choose psychology as a major. Hasn't really done anything for me since school, but the material was fascinating and I certainly enjoyed my classes.
posted by educatedslacker at 10:19 AM on April 3, 2009
To my mind, as an arts graduate, when you said "Biology: I love the subject", you essentially made the decision right there. Hard work in a field you love is the most sublime joy of higher education. Easy "A"s in a field you're apathetic about consumes the soul.
posted by Dr. Grue at 10:22 AM on April 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by Dr. Grue at 10:22 AM on April 3, 2009 [4 favorites]
Taking English classes will help you both in university and in your career - no reason you can't major in something else and take English on the side, regardless of whether you get a minor or not. It will benefit you no matter what you do.
Being "terrible at your major" isn't the worst thing in the world - once you get out of university into your first job, having a Bio major instead of not having one makes a big difference in what jobs you can get into. After the first job, GPA is irrelevant.
posted by meowzilla at 10:25 AM on April 3, 2009
Being "terrible at your major" isn't the worst thing in the world - once you get out of university into your first job, having a Bio major instead of not having one makes a big difference in what jobs you can get into. After the first job, GPA is irrelevant.
posted by meowzilla at 10:25 AM on April 3, 2009
Follow what you love. It may change over time, especially in college. You are preparing yourself for a lifetime of work, so you'd better stick with what you love, because you might be doing for a long time.
posted by RussHy at 10:27 AM on April 3, 2009
posted by RussHy at 10:27 AM on April 3, 2009
What do you do with a degree in English?
Don't be afraid to go into English either. Of the people I know who have an English BA, they now are: literary editor, lawyer, government adviser in scientific policy, social worker, MD, web designer, economist, advertising executive, corporate communications executive and psychotherapist.
posted by meerkatty at 10:28 AM on April 3, 2009
Don't be afraid to go into English either. Of the people I know who have an English BA, they now are: literary editor, lawyer, government adviser in scientific policy, social worker, MD, web designer, economist, advertising executive, corporate communications executive and psychotherapist.
posted by meerkatty at 10:28 AM on April 3, 2009
A couple points, Magraak. Why is this an either/or decision right now?
I had the same dilemma as an undergrad (molecular bio or psychology? Environmental biology or psychology? etc), and honestly, I changed my major on paper once a year, even up to the last semester. Also, I was able to fulfill all the courses towards a major in both psychology and biology, so I don't see why you can't declare one on paper and switch the next semester if you so desire.
The grades: I had the same thoughts. Psychology was a cake walk (all As and you did not need to attend class or open the book) vs biology that required studying, going to class, opening the book, and even then you may get a B. However, for me, it was more rewarding/fulfilling, enjoyed the topic, but that part is up to you. To be honest, I took a lot of psych courses to keep a high GPA. I don't see why you can't do that, too.
I would suggest you don't commit to anything in your head and keep on going. Take a few higher level bio courses. If you like plant stuff, you may love plant physiology and the corresponding plant physiology lab. Human physiology or comparative physiology (or anatomy) are also really interesting, and you may get to dissect or see things that you will not have a chance to do so again.
Volunteer in a lab(s) or other places to evaluate whether you want to do this.
Another way you may be able to keep parts of both the psych and biology -- the courses sometimes overlapped in my department. You may be able to do that research for somone in psych but using a biology credit if it is close enough.
One more critical point - do you want to go on to graduate school? I found out after I graduated that most grad schools will pay for you to get a PhD in biology (tuition plus living expenses), and they did not do so for english or psychology, but that is up to you.
Yet another point - you can acquire other skills along the way and don't necessarily need degrees to do them (eg, I write for a living now, using skills I acquired while studying science -- never took more than an english course or two in my entire life).
I say take the courses and decide as you continue - it is smart to explore what you want to do -- have informational interviews, volunteer, get part time jobs, but you can't figure this out until you are in the actual place.
Sorry I should edit this down, but back to work for me --
Good luck.
posted by Wolfster at 10:31 AM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I had the same dilemma as an undergrad (molecular bio or psychology? Environmental biology or psychology? etc), and honestly, I changed my major on paper once a year, even up to the last semester. Also, I was able to fulfill all the courses towards a major in both psychology and biology, so I don't see why you can't declare one on paper and switch the next semester if you so desire.
The grades: I had the same thoughts. Psychology was a cake walk (all As and you did not need to attend class or open the book) vs biology that required studying, going to class, opening the book, and even then you may get a B. However, for me, it was more rewarding/fulfilling, enjoyed the topic, but that part is up to you. To be honest, I took a lot of psych courses to keep a high GPA. I don't see why you can't do that, too.
I would suggest you don't commit to anything in your head and keep on going. Take a few higher level bio courses. If you like plant stuff, you may love plant physiology and the corresponding plant physiology lab. Human physiology or comparative physiology (or anatomy) are also really interesting, and you may get to dissect or see things that you will not have a chance to do so again.
Volunteer in a lab(s) or other places to evaluate whether you want to do this.
Another way you may be able to keep parts of both the psych and biology -- the courses sometimes overlapped in my department. You may be able to do that research for somone in psych but using a biology credit if it is close enough.
One more critical point - do you want to go on to graduate school? I found out after I graduated that most grad schools will pay for you to get a PhD in biology (tuition plus living expenses), and they did not do so for english or psychology, but that is up to you.
Yet another point - you can acquire other skills along the way and don't necessarily need degrees to do them (eg, I write for a living now, using skills I acquired while studying science -- never took more than an english course or two in my entire life).
I say take the courses and decide as you continue - it is smart to explore what you want to do -- have informational interviews, volunteer, get part time jobs, but you can't figure this out until you are in the actual place.
Sorry I should edit this down, but back to work for me --
Good luck.
posted by Wolfster at 10:31 AM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Here's what I'd * do in your shoes.
I'd go for the Bio degree. I'd take whatever Psych and English courses I could for electives. Later on it might even be possible to merge some of the Psych and Bio stuff (behavioral analysis for example). I imagine with any degree you'll find plenty of opportunities to fill a blank piece of paper with your valid, important thoughts that will need backing up.
A final note. It's been my observation that it is generally easier to shift from a 'hard' major to an a 'soft' major if the hard one doesn't work out, than it is to go the other way around.
*keep in mind that I'm not you.
posted by forforf at 10:32 AM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'd go for the Bio degree. I'd take whatever Psych and English courses I could for electives. Later on it might even be possible to merge some of the Psych and Bio stuff (behavioral analysis for example). I imagine with any degree you'll find plenty of opportunities to fill a blank piece of paper with your valid, important thoughts that will need backing up.
A final note. It's been my observation that it is generally easier to shift from a 'hard' major to an a 'soft' major if the hard one doesn't work out, than it is to go the other way around.
*keep in mind that I'm not you.
posted by forforf at 10:32 AM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Work I love, classes I love, or a subject I love?
At the risk of sounding cynical, I'd say none of the above. Realize that, even though grad degrees are increasingly common and career shifts are possible, your undergrad degree nonetheless represents a sort of springboard toward a career in a particular field. You can change your mind as necessary afterwards, of course, but it'll be easier if you can get the direction right to start with.
For this reason, you might consider looking past the day-to-day experience of undergrad life in this major, to also consider what kinds of experiences you'll be setting yourself up for after college. Most work in psychology is not at all like taking undergrad psych classes, and most English majors (even those that go on to work in the field) don't end up doing anything remotely like writing undergrad lit essays all day. This sounds painfully obvious, but seriously, I've known so, so many people who chose a major based on a passion for a particular subject or set of classes, only to be disappointed after graduation by the ultimate reality of day-to-day life in their chosen field. Don't discount the present value of study you love and are good at, but also don't discount the future those classes will be leading to in <4 short years.
posted by Bardolph at 10:33 AM on April 3, 2009
At the risk of sounding cynical, I'd say none of the above. Realize that, even though grad degrees are increasingly common and career shifts are possible, your undergrad degree nonetheless represents a sort of springboard toward a career in a particular field. You can change your mind as necessary afterwards, of course, but it'll be easier if you can get the direction right to start with.
For this reason, you might consider looking past the day-to-day experience of undergrad life in this major, to also consider what kinds of experiences you'll be setting yourself up for after college. Most work in psychology is not at all like taking undergrad psych classes, and most English majors (even those that go on to work in the field) don't end up doing anything remotely like writing undergrad lit essays all day. This sounds painfully obvious, but seriously, I've known so, so many people who chose a major based on a passion for a particular subject or set of classes, only to be disappointed after graduation by the ultimate reality of day-to-day life in their chosen field. Don't discount the present value of study you love and are good at, but also don't discount the future those classes will be leading to in <4 short years.
posted by Bardolph at 10:33 AM on April 3, 2009
Do bio. If the classes are too hard and you find yourself flailing, switch to something else. You might lose a year, big deal.
posted by sid at 10:37 AM on April 3, 2009
posted by sid at 10:37 AM on April 3, 2009
Sounds like Bio is the way to go. You can change majors if you want. There might be some classes overlapping both Bio and Psych; take those if they interest you. Additionally, if you don't mind extra work, you can try a minor in the remaining two subjects, whatever they may be and whether that option is available.
Keep in mind that a major doesn't dictate your career. If you're Bio, that doesn't mean you'll be a full-time scientist in the future. Likewise, being an English major doesn't mean you'll be pushing books around for the rest of your life. What you choose to do after graduation, what you choose to learn and apply, is entirely up to you. You may lose some time, you may lose a lot of time, but hey, motivation should be the major force behind your decision.
posted by curagea at 10:43 AM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Keep in mind that a major doesn't dictate your career. If you're Bio, that doesn't mean you'll be a full-time scientist in the future. Likewise, being an English major doesn't mean you'll be pushing books around for the rest of your life. What you choose to do after graduation, what you choose to learn and apply, is entirely up to you. You may lose some time, you may lose a lot of time, but hey, motivation should be the major force behind your decision.
posted by curagea at 10:43 AM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Go with the classes you like. Interesting classes can make you love a subject you're not otherwise excited about. Terrible classes can make you hate a subject you love.
Something to remember is
Q: What do you do with a degree in ______?
A: As often as not, something completely different.
posted by Plutor at 10:48 AM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Something to remember is
Q: What do you do with a degree in ______?
A: As often as not, something completely different.
posted by Plutor at 10:48 AM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Seconding Bardolph.
I love Bio -- I got my BS in Bio. I loved research. But the life of a career res-tech/lab manager in academic research? Not as much. In industry? Loved even less. Now I am a technical writer at a soap factory, and I really do enjoy that -- but I am eyeing the Chemical Engineers with envy, as their work looks like a lot more fun, and is certainly better paid. If I had it to do over, I'd go for the fun (and well-paid) job, not the fun major.
posted by Methylviolet at 10:49 AM on April 3, 2009
I love Bio -- I got my BS in Bio. I loved research. But the life of a career res-tech/lab manager in academic research? Not as much. In industry? Loved even less. Now I am a technical writer at a soap factory, and I really do enjoy that -- but I am eyeing the Chemical Engineers with envy, as their work looks like a lot more fun, and is certainly better paid. If I had it to do over, I'd go for the fun (and well-paid) job, not the fun major.
posted by Methylviolet at 10:49 AM on April 3, 2009
A final note. It's been my observation that it is generally easier to shift from a 'hard' major to an a 'soft' major if the hard one doesn't work out, than it is to go the other way around.
I agree with this. I also think that once you start working, it's easier to break into an unrelated field with a 'hard' major than with a 'soft' major--if you decide your dream is to work in publishing or as a freelance writer, I could see some ways in which having a Bio degree might set you apart and give you a leg up, just because it's rare to find someone with that sort of background in the field, whereas more-common degrees that are perceived as 'soft'--English (and Psychology to a lesser extent)--don't necessarily give your resume any advantage if you decided to work in a more science-y field. (To be clear: the actual courses and skills you would pick up in English would be really, really valuable in a science field, but presumably you could take a bunch of those classes even if you didn't declare it as your major.)
I had a double-major in undergrad, one of which was very 'soft' and widely perceived as not-academically-rigorous (but which I was totally passionate about) and one of which was very 'hard' and widely perceived as very rigorous (which I did well at but was not in any way passionate about). Looking back, if I had to only have one of those show up on my transcript as a major, I absolutely would choose the 'hard' science-y one, because it's opened a lot of doors for me that the 'soft' major couldn't. This is true despite the fact that the skills I picked up in the 'soft' major are probably more relevant to my job.
posted by iminurmefi at 10:51 AM on April 3, 2009
I agree with this. I also think that once you start working, it's easier to break into an unrelated field with a 'hard' major than with a 'soft' major--if you decide your dream is to work in publishing or as a freelance writer, I could see some ways in which having a Bio degree might set you apart and give you a leg up, just because it's rare to find someone with that sort of background in the field, whereas more-common degrees that are perceived as 'soft'--English (and Psychology to a lesser extent)--don't necessarily give your resume any advantage if you decided to work in a more science-y field. (To be clear: the actual courses and skills you would pick up in English would be really, really valuable in a science field, but presumably you could take a bunch of those classes even if you didn't declare it as your major.)
I had a double-major in undergrad, one of which was very 'soft' and widely perceived as not-academically-rigorous (but which I was totally passionate about) and one of which was very 'hard' and widely perceived as very rigorous (which I did well at but was not in any way passionate about). Looking back, if I had to only have one of those show up on my transcript as a major, I absolutely would choose the 'hard' science-y one, because it's opened a lot of doors for me that the 'soft' major couldn't. This is true despite the fact that the skills I picked up in the 'soft' major are probably more relevant to my job.
posted by iminurmefi at 10:51 AM on April 3, 2009
I'm not sure what to say about Psych, but between Bio and English, Bio wins. I say this as someone who got his degree in a liberal arts college.
If you get a Bio degree and want to go into a word-oriented job, nobody's going to say "oh, he didn't major in English, he's not qualified." If you want to go into a bio-oriented job, people are likely to say "oh, he didn't major in anything remotely related to bio, he's not qualified." And more importantly, that kind of expertise will be harder to pick up outside of the academic environment. You can make yourself a better writer and more critical reader by reading and writing, which you do anyhow.
posted by adamrice at 11:01 AM on April 3, 2009
If you get a Bio degree and want to go into a word-oriented job, nobody's going to say "oh, he didn't major in English, he's not qualified." If you want to go into a bio-oriented job, people are likely to say "oh, he didn't major in anything remotely related to bio, he's not qualified." And more importantly, that kind of expertise will be harder to pick up outside of the academic environment. You can make yourself a better writer and more critical reader by reading and writing, which you do anyhow.
posted by adamrice at 11:01 AM on April 3, 2009
Given your descriptions, I (an English Major, mind) would go with Biology. You seem to love it, and I can imagine it would provide many career opportunities. I would take as many English and psychology electives as you can, both because the subjects interest you and because there are useful things to be learned in both.
What do you do with a degree in English?
In my case, you go to grad school, which means you're qualified to teach college, though in practice that means at a two-year school, as most four-year schools require a Ph.D. English folks tend to go into teaching or veer off into other things. I do both: software trainer by day, adjunct English teacher by night.
posted by wheat at 11:06 AM on April 3, 2009
What do you do with a degree in English?
In my case, you go to grad school, which means you're qualified to teach college, though in practice that means at a two-year school, as most four-year schools require a Ph.D. English folks tend to go into teaching or veer off into other things. I do both: software trainer by day, adjunct English teacher by night.
posted by wheat at 11:06 AM on April 3, 2009
English degrees are pointless for the most part. Here's some good evidence:
Don't be afraid to go into English either. Of the people I know who have an English BA, they now are: literary editor, lawyer, government adviser in scientific policy, social worker, MD, web designer, economist, advertising executive, corporate communications executive and psychotherapist.
As you can see, not many of these people have done English study with their degrees.
As a few people mentioned, if you get a degree in bio and want to switch to a humanities field for grad school, that won't be too difficult. But if you get a degree in English and want to switch to bio, be prepared to interrupt your life to take a bunch of prerequisites.
On the other hand, if you truly love picking apart stories, cutting into language, and taking a critical look at everyday things, and you think you can do something with that, go for English.
posted by hpliferaft at 11:09 AM on April 3, 2009
Don't be afraid to go into English either. Of the people I know who have an English BA, they now are: literary editor, lawyer, government adviser in scientific policy, social worker, MD, web designer, economist, advertising executive, corporate communications executive and psychotherapist.
As you can see, not many of these people have done English study with their degrees.
As a few people mentioned, if you get a degree in bio and want to switch to a humanities field for grad school, that won't be too difficult. But if you get a degree in English and want to switch to bio, be prepared to interrupt your life to take a bunch of prerequisites.
On the other hand, if you truly love picking apart stories, cutting into language, and taking a critical look at everyday things, and you think you can do something with that, go for English.
posted by hpliferaft at 11:09 AM on April 3, 2009
As someone who majored in psychology in a pretty good psychology department, I now regret it a little even though it was interesting while I was in school. Given the chance, I would go back, major in biology, minor in psych (I know this isn't an option for you, but see if there's any way for you to take at least the intro psych classes as a non-major) and then see about grad school. With that combination, any psych or biology department would probably take you if you had done good research. Psych grad schools are often not impressed by psych majors; someone who's done more science is better prepared for grad research.
posted by slow graffiti at 11:13 AM on April 3, 2009
posted by slow graffiti at 11:13 AM on April 3, 2009
If you get a Bio degree and want to go into a word-oriented job, nobody's going to say "oh, he didn't major in English, he's not qualified." If you want to go into a bio-oriented job, people are likely to say "oh, he didn't major in anything remotely related to bio, he's not qualified." And more importantly, that kind of expertise will be harder to pick up outside of the academic environment. You can make yourself a better writer and more critical reader by reading and writing, which you do anyhow.
adamrice said just what I was about to... a fellow liberal arts grad here, who does nothing related to her degrees in her work these days unless you count responding to the occasional fan letter the magazine I work for receives auf deutsch. Oh, and cocktail parties are fun to drag out gruesome stories from the other degree, like how William the Conqueror exploded inside his own coffin during the funeral procession and stuff.
Overall, for someone who's totally conflicted and has no idea what to do, majors such as English, history, poli sci, etc are great to develop your writing and analysis muscles, which can be put to use pretty much anywhere, but it sounds to me like you really like bio, too. If you can't double major with psych, is there any sort of create-your-own-major program or independent study program at your university?
Jump at the fieldwork component of bio and, if you haven't already, really try to learn a second language WELL and you'll be light years ahead when you graduate. I've used my foreign language skills in more ways than I ever imagined outside the original context in which I'd planned to use them.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 11:25 AM on April 3, 2009
adamrice said just what I was about to... a fellow liberal arts grad here, who does nothing related to her degrees in her work these days unless you count responding to the occasional fan letter the magazine I work for receives auf deutsch. Oh, and cocktail parties are fun to drag out gruesome stories from the other degree, like how William the Conqueror exploded inside his own coffin during the funeral procession and stuff.
Overall, for someone who's totally conflicted and has no idea what to do, majors such as English, history, poli sci, etc are great to develop your writing and analysis muscles, which can be put to use pretty much anywhere, but it sounds to me like you really like bio, too. If you can't double major with psych, is there any sort of create-your-own-major program or independent study program at your university?
Jump at the fieldwork component of bio and, if you haven't already, really try to learn a second language WELL and you'll be light years ahead when you graduate. I've used my foreign language skills in more ways than I ever imagined outside the original context in which I'd planned to use them.
posted by bitter-girl.com at 11:25 AM on April 3, 2009
I don't know your school and its policies, but where I went to college you could pick a major and if you didn't like it, you could switch later; yes, it annoyed your advisor and the registrar's office. This means that you can choose any of the three and start taking the next level of classes. If the biology department's courses are too much for you, then go for psychology or English.
If you choose one, you can continue to take courses in another field. I found myself six credits short of a French major completely unintentionally when I graduated with a degree in molecular biology. Because your school doesn't allow a double major doesn't mean that you can't do significant course work in another field.
posted by sciencegeek at 11:25 AM on April 3, 2009
If you choose one, you can continue to take courses in another field. I found myself six credits short of a French major completely unintentionally when I graduated with a degree in molecular biology. Because your school doesn't allow a double major doesn't mean that you can't do significant course work in another field.
posted by sciencegeek at 11:25 AM on April 3, 2009
English degrees are pointless for the most part. Here's some good evidence:
Don't be afraid to go into English either. Of the people I know who have an English BA, they now are: literary editor, lawyer, government adviser in scientific policy, social worker, MD, web designer, economist, advertising executive, corporate communications executive and psychotherapist.
As you can see, not many of these people have done English study with their degrees.
I disagree with this completely. I think the critical thinking and good writing skills learned in the pursuit of an English degree are very helpful to the fields described, which doesn't make the degree useless at all.
I'm an English major who currently works as a product/project manager in technology.
posted by sweetkid at 11:25 AM on April 3, 2009
Don't be afraid to go into English either. Of the people I know who have an English BA, they now are: literary editor, lawyer, government adviser in scientific policy, social worker, MD, web designer, economist, advertising executive, corporate communications executive and psychotherapist.
As you can see, not many of these people have done English study with their degrees.
I disagree with this completely. I think the critical thinking and good writing skills learned in the pursuit of an English degree are very helpful to the fields described, which doesn't make the degree useless at all.
I'm an English major who currently works as a product/project manager in technology.
posted by sweetkid at 11:25 AM on April 3, 2009
Your primary argument in favour of English is that "there's no better feeling than sitting down to write a paper, and realizing I actually have original, valid, important thoughts, and can back them up. I feel proud when I finish." You'll also be doing exactly this if you end up doing original research in biology or psychology; so if this is something you really enjoy, then look into research opportunities in these departments.
posted by Johnny Assay at 11:29 AM on April 3, 2009
posted by Johnny Assay at 11:29 AM on April 3, 2009
As you can see, not many of these people have done English study with their degrees.
That's kind of the point. Some people actually see this as a liberating advantage. You really enjoy your undergraduate degree, because what you study doesn't have to matter to your future career.
posted by meerkatty at 11:31 AM on April 3, 2009
That's kind of the point. Some people actually see this as a liberating advantage. You really enjoy your undergraduate degree, because what you study doesn't have to matter to your future career.
posted by meerkatty at 11:31 AM on April 3, 2009
English degrees are pointless for the most part. Here's some good evidence [. . . .] As you can see, not many of these people have done English study with their degrees.
That single data point proves nothing. Most of the people I know who have English degrees teach or write or both, which is directly relevant to their course of study. And those who have veered off into other fields generally choose ones where writing and analysis are still relevant. That's a far stretch from "pointless."
posted by wheat at 11:48 AM on April 3, 2009
That single data point proves nothing. Most of the people I know who have English degrees teach or write or both, which is directly relevant to their course of study. And those who have veered off into other fields generally choose ones where writing and analysis are still relevant. That's a far stretch from "pointless."
posted by wheat at 11:48 AM on April 3, 2009
Two thoughts.
1. DO NOT make your decision out of fear. It sounds like you really want to do bio -- or, at least, that you like the subject AND the career prospects in bio, whereas you don't like the career prospects in either other field. If you don't do it out of fear, you'll regret it forever.
If you think you won't be good enough for bio, TALK TO SOMEONE -- a professor, or a senior student in bio at your school, and get their advice. There might be tutoring opportunities, or you might just find out that it's not as hard as you think. Talk to the professor of one of those prerequisite classes and find out what s/he thinks about your ability.
2. Is money/time an issue? If not, why not declare one major and take classes in multiple things, maybe risk taking a little longer to graduate but get a direct sense of things?
3. For that matter, why not double-major?
posted by paultopia at 12:00 PM on April 3, 2009
1. DO NOT make your decision out of fear. It sounds like you really want to do bio -- or, at least, that you like the subject AND the career prospects in bio, whereas you don't like the career prospects in either other field. If you don't do it out of fear, you'll regret it forever.
If you think you won't be good enough for bio, TALK TO SOMEONE -- a professor, or a senior student in bio at your school, and get their advice. There might be tutoring opportunities, or you might just find out that it's not as hard as you think. Talk to the professor of one of those prerequisite classes and find out what s/he thinks about your ability.
2. Is money/time an issue? If not, why not declare one major and take classes in multiple things, maybe risk taking a little longer to graduate but get a direct sense of things?
3. For that matter, why not double-major?
posted by paultopia at 12:00 PM on April 3, 2009
No one's mentioned it, but there's something to say for the contribution you'll be after you get out in the world. The world needs scientists and engineers badly. We've got huge environmental problems. If you love biology, well then, get busy! We need you!
posted by Carmody'sPrize at 12:02 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Carmody'sPrize at 12:02 PM on April 3, 2009 [1 favorite]
Film theory major in undergrad, did a year in IT consulting then entered a compsci related grad program. I feel like the critical thinking and media literacy skills I learned are valuable, but at the same time, I only made it into consulting because of a proven extracurricular track record and some good contacts in the field. . I'd think about bio and taking English electives, because it's much harder to tinker with bio in your dorm room for fun, relative to programming and networks. I have a friend who is both a published poet and a cancer researching bio Ph.d student, so it can be done.
posted by Alterscape at 12:04 PM on April 3, 2009
posted by Alterscape at 12:04 PM on April 3, 2009
One more critical point - do you want to go on to graduate school? I found out after I graduated that most grad schools will pay for you to get a PhD in biology (tuition plus living expenses), and they did not do so for english or psychology, but that is up to you.
I can't speak to English, but most reputable PhD programs will absolutely pay you to earn your doctorate in Psychology. You have research and/or teaching responsibilities, but if you can get in to a good PhD program, it's pretty much expected that you get tuition remission and a modest stipend.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 12:08 PM on April 3, 2009
I can't speak to English, but most reputable PhD programs will absolutely pay you to earn your doctorate in Psychology. You have research and/or teaching responsibilities, but if you can get in to a good PhD program, it's pretty much expected that you get tuition remission and a modest stipend.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 12:08 PM on April 3, 2009
If I had it to do over, I'd go for the fun (and well-paid) job, not the fun major.
I would, too. I am doing it over, in fact.
I'm a former psychology and philosophy major. I went back to school at the age of 40 to study accounting (which, in fact, has turned out to be more fun than I thought it would be!) I have thoroughly enjoyed the classes in all three of these subjects, but the actual work of accounting is much more appealing to me (and much better paying) than anything I did after completing my earlier credentials in psychology and philosophy. I was an office lackey in a behavioral research institute for awhile, and worked for a couple of psychologists, but it was nothing like taking psych classes.
My studies have overlapped in interesting ways, though. Psychology and philosophy have certainly been useful - the critical thinking skills I learned in philosophy classes help me in understanding accounting principles, for example, and knowing something about biopsych and cognitive science has led me to an interest in behavioral finance.
So if I were in your shoes, OP, I'd go the biology route. Maybe you can find ways to introduce your other interests as well - take a biopsych class as an elective, for example. The way you write about biology speaks to me of real love for the subject itself (I can relate - I love biology too, especially microbiology). That level of interest will go a long way toward keeping you motivated in the tougher classes. I suspect studying bio will open more doors for you career-wise, as well. You'll be out of school in a few short years, but you'll be working for many more years. It's well worth it to take steps toward a career you will enjoy.
I hope you won't let your worry about not being good enough in math and science hold you back from pursuing something you love. I once thought I wasn't good at math, in part because I got a C- in my first algebra class in high school, and was put into a remedial geometry class the next year as a result. But in college, where I had much better instructors, I went on to get A's in trigonometry, analytic geometry and calculus, and now I love math. Sometimes all it takes is a skilled professor who is brimming over with enthusiasm for their subject. Give it a shot, try to get into classes with good instructors, and keep an open mind; you might surprise yourself!
Furthermore, there is something deeply satisfying about discovering that you have the ability to do well in a subject that is widely considered difficult. It builds self-respect and shapes your thinking in unforeseen ways, some of which probably won't be apparent to you until long after graduation.
Good luck!
posted by velvet winter at 12:13 PM on April 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
I would, too. I am doing it over, in fact.
I'm a former psychology and philosophy major. I went back to school at the age of 40 to study accounting (which, in fact, has turned out to be more fun than I thought it would be!) I have thoroughly enjoyed the classes in all three of these subjects, but the actual work of accounting is much more appealing to me (and much better paying) than anything I did after completing my earlier credentials in psychology and philosophy. I was an office lackey in a behavioral research institute for awhile, and worked for a couple of psychologists, but it was nothing like taking psych classes.
My studies have overlapped in interesting ways, though. Psychology and philosophy have certainly been useful - the critical thinking skills I learned in philosophy classes help me in understanding accounting principles, for example, and knowing something about biopsych and cognitive science has led me to an interest in behavioral finance.
So if I were in your shoes, OP, I'd go the biology route. Maybe you can find ways to introduce your other interests as well - take a biopsych class as an elective, for example. The way you write about biology speaks to me of real love for the subject itself (I can relate - I love biology too, especially microbiology). That level of interest will go a long way toward keeping you motivated in the tougher classes. I suspect studying bio will open more doors for you career-wise, as well. You'll be out of school in a few short years, but you'll be working for many more years. It's well worth it to take steps toward a career you will enjoy.
I hope you won't let your worry about not being good enough in math and science hold you back from pursuing something you love. I once thought I wasn't good at math, in part because I got a C- in my first algebra class in high school, and was put into a remedial geometry class the next year as a result. But in college, where I had much better instructors, I went on to get A's in trigonometry, analytic geometry and calculus, and now I love math. Sometimes all it takes is a skilled professor who is brimming over with enthusiasm for their subject. Give it a shot, try to get into classes with good instructors, and keep an open mind; you might surprise yourself!
Furthermore, there is something deeply satisfying about discovering that you have the ability to do well in a subject that is widely considered difficult. It builds self-respect and shapes your thinking in unforeseen ways, some of which probably won't be apparent to you until long after graduation.
Good luck!
posted by velvet winter at 12:13 PM on April 3, 2009 [2 favorites]
In my opinion, your "against" arguments seem strongest for English and Bio. I wouldn't worry too much about not wanting to pursue Psych after college. Most people change career paths so frequently that in the end what your BA is in doesn't matter, just that you have one. I studied Sociology in college because it interested me and I thought I would do nonprofit work, and not even two years after graduating I'm in publishing. I say do what you like now because it will keep you motivated through the next two years.
posted by easy_being_green at 4:28 PM on April 3, 2009
posted by easy_being_green at 4:28 PM on April 3, 2009
I can't speak to English, but most reputable PhD programs will absolutely pay you to earn your doctorate in Psychology. You have research and/or teaching responsibilities, but if you can get in to a good PhD program, it's pretty much expected that you get tuition remission and a modest stipend.
Agree. [I'm getting paid for my psych PhD right now!] The problem with psych and English is that if you love the field and want to stay in it after undergrad, you have to go to grad school. And the problem with English and some areas of psych is that even with a PhD, you aren't very likely to get a job in the field (at least an academic one). So why start down that road now when you could just as easily start down the bio path where there are industry jobs AND academic jobs you could aspire to?
Don't worry about how difficult the classes might be. Just go in, work hard, and see what happens. When I started my PhD, stats classes were scary because I was surrounded by math geeks. I thought I would just keep taking stats classes until I failed one. I ended up taking 30 hours of stats, never came close to failing. Don't worry about failing classes until it actually happens (which it very well may not).
posted by parkerjackson at 6:24 PM on April 3, 2009
Agree. [I'm getting paid for my psych PhD right now!] The problem with psych and English is that if you love the field and want to stay in it after undergrad, you have to go to grad school. And the problem with English and some areas of psych is that even with a PhD, you aren't very likely to get a job in the field (at least an academic one). So why start down that road now when you could just as easily start down the bio path where there are industry jobs AND academic jobs you could aspire to?
Don't worry about how difficult the classes might be. Just go in, work hard, and see what happens. When I started my PhD, stats classes were scary because I was surrounded by math geeks. I thought I would just keep taking stats classes until I failed one. I ended up taking 30 hours of stats, never came close to failing. Don't worry about failing classes until it actually happens (which it very well may not).
posted by parkerjackson at 6:24 PM on April 3, 2009
PhD biology student here that chose biology as an undergrad and held a variety of biology-related jobs between schooling. I haven't seen much serious discussion on jobs that a biology degree uniquely prepares you for yet. I don't want you to think (like I did when I made your choice) that biology is the most practical major from your list for post-college jobs.
With an undergraduate degree in ecological / evolutionary biology, you can get a low-paying lab tech position at an academic lab (fairly hard to come by in ecology / evolution unless you build molecular skills). Environmental monitoring is another source of jobs and the pay depends on whether you work for the companies trying to follow (just barely) the regulations or organizations trying to measure the state of the environment. The overwhelming demand in biology right now is for molecular and cell biologists that research human disease.
My advice is to get as many quantitative skills (lots of math!) and foreign languages as you can now. These will give you great flexibility in the future, whether working or in academia.
posted by ms.kathleen at 7:00 AM on April 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
With an undergraduate degree in ecological / evolutionary biology, you can get a low-paying lab tech position at an academic lab (fairly hard to come by in ecology / evolution unless you build molecular skills). Environmental monitoring is another source of jobs and the pay depends on whether you work for the companies trying to follow (just barely) the regulations or organizations trying to measure the state of the environment. The overwhelming demand in biology right now is for molecular and cell biologists that research human disease.
My advice is to get as many quantitative skills (lots of math!) and foreign languages as you can now. These will give you great flexibility in the future, whether working or in academia.
posted by ms.kathleen at 7:00 AM on April 4, 2009 [2 favorites]
parkerjackson is spot on with regard to grad school (the necessity of it and the ugly job market in psychology and English even if you make it through). You might need grad school if you stay interested in biology, too, but I would assume there are more jobs to be had. Then again, if you're like most people (as others have mentioned) you may well end up working in a field that is not directly related to your undergraduate major. Getting through an undergraduate program demonstrates that you can set a lofty, long-term goal and achieve it. Some jobs require a specific undergraduate major; some don't.
posted by wheat at 6:48 AM on April 5, 2009
posted by wheat at 6:48 AM on April 5, 2009
Late in the game -- but I wanted to echo what wheat said. I'm an English major [currently still in college] and from what you've expressed, I think you should go with bio.
posted by fantine at 7:53 AM on April 8, 2009
posted by fantine at 7:53 AM on April 8, 2009
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posted by lizbunny at 10:17 AM on April 3, 2009