IWW-alikes

March 19, 2009 9:25 PM

What are some analogues to the Iowa Writers' Workshop outside the US -- creative writing programs that have the reputation of attracting the best of the best in their respective countries or regions?

(N.B.: I ask purely out of curiosity.)

posted by Mummy of a Lady Named Jemutesonekh to Education (12 answers total)

Best answer: The MA in Creative Writing at the University of East Anglia in the UK.
posted by carbide at 1:10 AM on March 20, 2009

American MFA here. Purely anecdotal, but it's my understanding that there's no equivalent, generally, to the MFA outside the US.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 6:03 AM on March 20, 2009

Best answer: With respect, I dispute that anecdote. UBC in Canada comes to mind first, as well as East Anglia in the UK as mentioned. But there are plenty. Did you mean something in the American MFA is structurally different, or are you making a value judgement about non-American writing programs?
posted by roombythelake at 8:11 AM on March 20, 2009

I think the prestige of writing programs is pretty subjective, and one person's Iowa is often another person's overrated brown-nose-fest. That said, these Atlantic articles might give you something to think about. Speaking as a former creative-writing grad program student, most people I knew chose programs based on the faculty (well, and fellowship/tuition funding) more than anything else.
posted by aught at 8:28 AM on March 20, 2009 [1 favorite]

But there are plenty. Did you mean something in the American MFA is structurally different, or are you making a value judgement about non-American writing programs?

Hmm, no. I wouldn't even make the blanket value judgment about American MFA programs (even specific MFA programs) that Mummy made. It's my understanding that, outside of the US, there are only a very small handful or programs that offer terminal degrees in writing, which is what an MFA in creative writing is (and what you get at Iowa). An MA-degree isn't terminal, and wouldn't offer the same "credentials" in terms of teaching. I've likely gathered that impression from various MFA-related message boards (the Poets and Writers' Speakeasy?) and blogs. This is what Tom Kealey's MFA blog says about international programs--scroll to the bottom for the impressions of Australian programs.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:28 AM on March 20, 2009

Oh, and a caveat: my information is probably dated, since I was mining info on MFA programs 3 years ago (defending my thesis today! w00t!)
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 8:31 AM on March 20, 2009

I'll second East Anglia.
posted by ob at 9:28 AM on March 20, 2009

nthing East Anglia. Also, the IWW has declined in recent years, and is no longer in the top ten MFA programs according to some scales.
posted by zoomorphic at 10:19 AM on March 20, 2009

PhoBWanKenobi, structural differences it is, then, and though teaching afterward may not be a consideration for some, you're right to point out that the distinction between terminal and non-terminal degrees is something to consider when choosing schools. The OP didn't mention that as being the distinctive criteria of what makes Iowa renowned, though, just that it had a reputation for attracting some of the best and brightest in its respective country or region. Hence my earlier question, which turns out to have been unnecessarily pointed: thanks for clearing it up and congrats on the thesis!
posted by roombythelake at 11:04 AM on March 20, 2009

Response by poster: Thanks for the answers so far!

I wasn't trying to ask only about MFA programs as opposed to other kinds of creative writing programs; I meant (or wanted to) "analogue" with specific reference to having a reputation for, etc. My fault for being unclear.

That Iowa may not actually be as good as UC Irvine or UMich, or that actual creative writing students may choose programs based on factors besides reputation, doesn't concern me here: my question is to do with reputation only. In my experience, Iowa is the only creative writing program American nonwriters ever have heard of, and the rankings zoomorphic linked to list it as having the highest score for reputation. Besides, even if you think I'm wrong about Iowa's reputation or think its reputation is unfounded or whatever, that doesn't confuse the category I'm asking about, "creative writing programs that have the reputation of attracting the best of the best in their respective countries or regions."

PhoBWanKenobi: If MFA programs are more or less a uniquely American institution, do you know what forms creative writing programs take in other countries? Are MA programs common outside the Anglophone world? Certificate programs? Academic workshop traditions not oriented toward credentials? The comments about the differences between American and Australian programs in your link was interesting. I hope your thesis defense went well!

roombythelake: Anything more you can say or anything you can link to about UBC's importance in Canadian writing?

Anyone else, other names? UEA is the only one I already knew.
posted by Mummy of a Lady Named Jemutesonekh at 2:24 PM on March 20, 2009

I wish I knew more, Mummy! You might try clicking around the aforementioned MFA Program section of the Poets and Writers Speakeasy Message Forum--if you don't get an answer here, they can probably get you one!
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 3:36 PM on March 20, 2009

Wow, sorry for the delay in getting back to you. This article will give you the run-down, as it speaks to both the pros and cons of UBC's reputation in the country's literary circles. UBC just seems to get name-checked in reviews and so forth more than other, possible equally excellent schools in Canada; there was even a bit of a backlash, leading someone to refer to it as an "assembly line" for fiction. There are other good schools: Humber College runs a program by correspondence that attracts big names, and U. Victoria, University of Toronto, and Concordia in Montreal have well-thought-of programs too. But UBC just sort of seems to claim the gold standard. I don't mean it's achieved an international reputation as Iowa and East Anglia have, just that, in Canada, it's the closest we have to an equivalent, in that you could pick another school and say it was our best, and possibly good reason, but you'd still have to know that the first question you'd get after doing so would be "so how about..."
posted by roombythelake at 8:18 AM on March 24, 2009