Do grades really matter?
February 25, 2009 2:06 PM Subscribe
Do grades really matter?
(Advice on college classes and grades)
Ok so i am an electrical engineering student (a very hard major in college) and i am currently in my third year of school (junior status). just this past week i took 2 exams and i ended up doing terribile on the two test where he knew exactly what he was doing (one in which he got every answer right except 2 minor errors and got a 68).
One test was multiple choice and me rushing and putting the wrong answer, where i explained exactly why the answer is what it was to someone else in the class right before. i ended up getting a 70%, an average grade but i was really disappointed in myself as i knew the material. The other test i did literally get all the questions right with the exception of the last problem where i should have missed 5 pts...which would still be an A. but i got the first 3 questions exactly, but the professor grades horribly. i am going to have a talk with her and see if i can get some more pts. but she has been known to be a tough grader and never changes her mind. so i got a 68%.
I know very well that grades don't mean all that much in the real world, but this same thing has happened a few times where C's should of been B's and B's could have easily been A's. so my gpa has dropped below a 3.0.
i just hate it because i know the material, yet i am not getting good grades. and i don't want to drop the class because i feel i know what i am doing, i am learning.
just wondering if there was any advice something to make me feel better. i have been feeling great the past 2 months, feeling like a new person, happy. and now i feel like the world's crashing down upon me. i would like to think grades don't matter, but they are a factor.
Ok so i am an electrical engineering student (a very hard major in college) and i am currently in my third year of school (junior status). just this past week i took 2 exams and i ended up doing terribile on the two test where he knew exactly what he was doing (one in which he got every answer right except 2 minor errors and got a 68).
One test was multiple choice and me rushing and putting the wrong answer, where i explained exactly why the answer is what it was to someone else in the class right before. i ended up getting a 70%, an average grade but i was really disappointed in myself as i knew the material. The other test i did literally get all the questions right with the exception of the last problem where i should have missed 5 pts...which would still be an A. but i got the first 3 questions exactly, but the professor grades horribly. i am going to have a talk with her and see if i can get some more pts. but she has been known to be a tough grader and never changes her mind. so i got a 68%.
I know very well that grades don't mean all that much in the real world, but this same thing has happened a few times where C's should of been B's and B's could have easily been A's. so my gpa has dropped below a 3.0.
i just hate it because i know the material, yet i am not getting good grades. and i don't want to drop the class because i feel i know what i am doing, i am learning.
just wondering if there was any advice something to make me feel better. i have been feeling great the past 2 months, feeling like a new person, happy. and now i feel like the world's crashing down upon me. i would like to think grades don't matter, but they are a factor.
In general, when leaving school and entering the real world, grades don't end up mattering nearly as much as the people-connections you make in school.
(This is true from kindergarten forward; it's the great lie of education and one of a half-dozen things I very much wish someone had told me when I was ten.)
You have the degree, fine. Now 99 percent of potential employers don't care whether you were 1st in your class or 500th, nor will they ever know anyway. As SpiffyRob says above, it's rare on resumes. I usually read it as a sign of showing off, rather than as useful information. You may be asked for a transcript upon hiring, but that's more to confirm that you didn't invent your degree than to compare you to anyone else.
I know lots of EEs and work with a couple of them. They tell me that in the EE programs at many schools, good grades can help in one certain way: they can qualify you for co-op or other on-the-job learning programs that can get you in the door to full-time employment after graduation, so there's that. It is a school by school thing, though.
posted by rokusan at 2:21 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
(This is true from kindergarten forward; it's the great lie of education and one of a half-dozen things I very much wish someone had told me when I was ten.)
You have the degree, fine. Now 99 percent of potential employers don't care whether you were 1st in your class or 500th, nor will they ever know anyway. As SpiffyRob says above, it's rare on resumes. I usually read it as a sign of showing off, rather than as useful information. You may be asked for a transcript upon hiring, but that's more to confirm that you didn't invent your degree than to compare you to anyone else.
I know lots of EEs and work with a couple of them. They tell me that in the EE programs at many schools, good grades can help in one certain way: they can qualify you for co-op or other on-the-job learning programs that can get you in the door to full-time employment after graduation, so there's that. It is a school by school thing, though.
posted by rokusan at 2:21 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Grades will matter a modest amount for getting your first job. After that they basically won't matter at all. Six months into the real world and nobody will care much what your GPA was. A year and they'll stop caring entirely. Feel free to leave it off your resume.
Mind you, if you want to do graduate school, grades are going to matter a lot for applications. But if your concern is the short term and you plan on going into industry after graduation instead of continuing with school, stop worrying and focus on learning. Skills are useful in the real world; grades are (mostly) not.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:30 PM on February 25, 2009
Mind you, if you want to do graduate school, grades are going to matter a lot for applications. But if your concern is the short term and you plan on going into industry after graduation instead of continuing with school, stop worrying and focus on learning. Skills are useful in the real world; grades are (mostly) not.
posted by Tomorrowful at 2:30 PM on February 25, 2009
Sometimes, but rarely.
If you're wondering whether you should drop the course, lose the money and time, and take it over so you can potentially get a better grade and better GPA, then chances are: NO, you will almost certainly not realize additional opportunities and salary enough to make up for what it costs you to drop the classes.
And remember, it's not just the cost of tuition. The time you spend in school has a cost too. If you're not working it's the salary you don't earn. If you are working it's the difference between your current salary and what you're going to make as a graduate, which will presumably be more.
In my experience what you should be more worried about is whether your lower grades reflect a lower comprehension that's going to bite you in the ass down the road. I scraped through trig and calc by the skin of my teeth; I understood the underlying concepts well enough to get a barely passing grade but where it's kicked me in the teeth is in attempting to learn things that build on that material. I can't integrate functions as readily as others can who can pull those old trig identities out of their back pocket without thinking about it.
In the mean time, stick it out. If you really do comprehend this well but don't test well, then you should look into whether that's something you can get some allowance for. I'm not a big believer in allowances for people that let them avoid dealing with the realities we all have to cope with in the real world, but you will be competing grade-wise with people who did get those allowances. So look into it.
If you just need to buckle down, then do it, but beating up on yourself isn't productive. Learn from your mistakes and move on.
posted by phearlez at 2:32 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you're wondering whether you should drop the course, lose the money and time, and take it over so you can potentially get a better grade and better GPA, then chances are: NO, you will almost certainly not realize additional opportunities and salary enough to make up for what it costs you to drop the classes.
And remember, it's not just the cost of tuition. The time you spend in school has a cost too. If you're not working it's the salary you don't earn. If you are working it's the difference between your current salary and what you're going to make as a graduate, which will presumably be more.
In my experience what you should be more worried about is whether your lower grades reflect a lower comprehension that's going to bite you in the ass down the road. I scraped through trig and calc by the skin of my teeth; I understood the underlying concepts well enough to get a barely passing grade but where it's kicked me in the teeth is in attempting to learn things that build on that material. I can't integrate functions as readily as others can who can pull those old trig identities out of their back pocket without thinking about it.
In the mean time, stick it out. If you really do comprehend this well but don't test well, then you should look into whether that's something you can get some allowance for. I'm not a big believer in allowances for people that let them avoid dealing with the realities we all have to cope with in the real world, but you will be competing grade-wise with people who did get those allowances. So look into it.
If you just need to buckle down, then do it, but beating up on yourself isn't productive. Learn from your mistakes and move on.
posted by phearlez at 2:32 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
I came here to post exactly what Tomorrowful said. Unless you're set on grad school, then don't sweat it.
posted by Nattie at 3:03 PM on February 25, 2009
posted by Nattie at 3:03 PM on February 25, 2009
One round of bad grades isn't the end of the world; it's a wake-up call about how you're spending your time and what you need to focus on.
It's easy to excel (and get good grades) when you care about the course material; I have a relative who went from terrible grades in high school to straight As his first round of college, presumably because he's studying something he loves.
It's also easy to fail (and get poor grades) when you don't care about the course material, or are paying attention to other things; that first relative has a twin who had the exact opposite experience, presumably because he'd always gotten good grades in high school and thought he'd coast through college.
So use this as a wake-up call that you need to be sure you're studying the right thing, and that you're paying enough attention to it. Based on your inability to correctly answer a question on paper that you'd just answered verbally beforehand, and your FPP containing some passages still written in the third person (presumably your first draft before you decided to admit it's you we're talking about?) you're not paying attention to your written work. Focus on that.
At the end of the day, do grades matter? It depends. But don't think of them as the end goal; think of them as a barometer to how interested you are in your studies and how well you're using your time. From the looks of things, you should do some thinking and focusing.
Good luck!
posted by davejay at 3:10 PM on February 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
It's easy to excel (and get good grades) when you care about the course material; I have a relative who went from terrible grades in high school to straight As his first round of college, presumably because he's studying something he loves.
It's also easy to fail (and get poor grades) when you don't care about the course material, or are paying attention to other things; that first relative has a twin who had the exact opposite experience, presumably because he'd always gotten good grades in high school and thought he'd coast through college.
So use this as a wake-up call that you need to be sure you're studying the right thing, and that you're paying enough attention to it. Based on your inability to correctly answer a question on paper that you'd just answered verbally beforehand, and your FPP containing some passages still written in the third person (presumably your first draft before you decided to admit it's you we're talking about?) you're not paying attention to your written work. Focus on that.
At the end of the day, do grades matter? It depends. But don't think of them as the end goal; think of them as a barometer to how interested you are in your studies and how well you're using your time. From the looks of things, you should do some thinking and focusing.
Good luck!
posted by davejay at 3:10 PM on February 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
Grades don't matter as long as you pass, but in some fields maybe they should. It's like the old joke:
Q: What do you call a person who graduated last in his class in med school?
A: Doctor
posted by amyms at 3:26 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Q: What do you call a person who graduated last in his class in med school?
A: Doctor
posted by amyms at 3:26 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
No. Unless you want to continue your education, grades don't matter. They obviously matter to you though, so keep up the studying for your own well-being.
Unless your chosen industry has some bizarre penchant for academic achievement, outside of grad school applications, the only instance where you will need to report your GPA will be on an application for Staples or Home Depot. That's literally the only time in my professional career where I've ever seen a GPA field required.
posted by willie11 at 3:29 PM on February 25, 2009
Unless your chosen industry has some bizarre penchant for academic achievement, outside of grad school applications, the only instance where you will need to report your GPA will be on an application for Staples or Home Depot. That's literally the only time in my professional career where I've ever seen a GPA field required.
posted by willie11 at 3:29 PM on February 25, 2009
You say you know the material, yet minor mistakes cost you many points. Before you turn your test in, do you go over it two or three times and check in for clarity and correctness? I ask, because your AskMe is is rambling and incoherent (who is "he" in the first paragraph?). In fact there's not even a question in the body of the post at all; people are answering your title. So my advice is to take the time to carefully read what you have written on your exam and make sure it answers the question fully and clearly. Knowing the material is of naturally important, but you've got to be able to communicate that you know the material as well, or you don't get anywhere, even in the real world. So take a step back and think about what these grades are saying about your work. If you're not sure, ask your teacher.
posted by oneirodynia at 3:40 PM on February 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 3:40 PM on February 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
Grades do matter for some fields. In a recent interview, not only was I asked for my undergraduate GPA, I was also asked for my SAT scores and my GRE (I'm currently completing my master's).
posted by pravit at 3:40 PM on February 25, 2009
posted by pravit at 3:40 PM on February 25, 2009
I graduated 14 years ago and I got asked for my grades for my most recent job. Failing Antennas in 4th year did not seem to have much of an impact as I did get the job. So I don't think it's that big a deal.
Keep at it; a few bad grades will not lock you out of every good job out there. You still have lots of courses left to get good grades in.
posted by GuyZero at 3:44 PM on February 25, 2009
Keep at it; a few bad grades will not lock you out of every good job out there. You still have lots of courses left to get good grades in.
posted by GuyZero at 3:44 PM on February 25, 2009
I don't want to make you feel worse, but don't they throw you out of engineering school for bad grades? I remember being surprised because that's the only major that I've heard of doing that.
posted by notned at 3:59 PM on February 25, 2009
posted by notned at 3:59 PM on February 25, 2009
I agree with what everyone else has written about your grades not mattering unless you're planning to attempt graduate school. And even then, a few years of stellar work + fantastic work-related references might just get you in regardless.
However, I would like to gently suggest that you work on your written communication skills. I recognize that this forum is casual, and that may inform the way you wrote your question, but I'll admit that I had to read it very carefully in order to decipher your meaning. If you write test answers similarly to the way you composed your question (on non-multiple-choice exams), I imagine that your professor is getting very frustrated when grading. If the errors that are losing you points are, in fact, minor, that may be obscured by the way you're communicating your answers -- thus making your errors seem much larger. And remember that professors are only human -- if she's struggling to understand you, she's probably likely to lose sympathy. As much as all teachers fight it, our mood can impact how much leeway we give while grading, even unconsciously. And writing skills will be far more important in job applications than your grades. Seriously.
It also seems like you might just have some test anxiety, which is completely normal, especially after not meeting your own expectations! I imagine that the counseling center at your university has some folks who are really well practiced at providing tips to help combat test anxiety, and that might be a fantastic resource for you.
posted by amelioration at 4:17 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
However, I would like to gently suggest that you work on your written communication skills. I recognize that this forum is casual, and that may inform the way you wrote your question, but I'll admit that I had to read it very carefully in order to decipher your meaning. If you write test answers similarly to the way you composed your question (on non-multiple-choice exams), I imagine that your professor is getting very frustrated when grading. If the errors that are losing you points are, in fact, minor, that may be obscured by the way you're communicating your answers -- thus making your errors seem much larger. And remember that professors are only human -- if she's struggling to understand you, she's probably likely to lose sympathy. As much as all teachers fight it, our mood can impact how much leeway we give while grading, even unconsciously. And writing skills will be far more important in job applications than your grades. Seriously.
It also seems like you might just have some test anxiety, which is completely normal, especially after not meeting your own expectations! I imagine that the counseling center at your university has some folks who are really well practiced at providing tips to help combat test anxiety, and that might be a fantastic resource for you.
posted by amelioration at 4:17 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
I am not in an engineering job but all my jobs (computers) have yet to ask for college grades. They only cared if I graduated college.
posted by majortom1981 at 5:00 PM on February 25, 2009
posted by majortom1981 at 5:00 PM on February 25, 2009
Grades do matter in some situations. I'm in academia and I know people who when hiring entry level technicians for science positions will ask for GPAs or copies of your transcript. One of my colleagues suggests not interviewing anyone with a GPA under 3.5. This may be because we're in a university setting, but at least here grades do matter.
posted by pombe at 5:06 PM on February 25, 2009
posted by pombe at 5:06 PM on February 25, 2009
I don't want to make you feel worse, but don't they throw you out of engineering school for bad grades? I remember being surprised because that's the only major that I've heard of doing that.
Actually, almost any major will do this if your grades are bad enough.
The other test i did literally get all the questions right with the exception of the last problem where i should have missed 5 pts...which would still be an A. but i got the first 3 questions exactly, but the professor grades horribly. i am going to have a talk with her and see if i can get some more pts. but she has been known to be a tough grader and never changes her mind. so i got a 68%.
I think you need to take some accountability. If you know the grading scale, and you know the material, there's no one to blame for your failures but yourself. This isn't entirely a bad thing--because you have the power to change your grades, either through improving your test taking skills or improving your mastery of the materials. Don't even waste your time (and your professor's time) begging for better grades; that time can be better spent studying.
And, seconding what amelioration said about your writing skills. I've taught writing classes specifically for engineers, and the vast majority of them were incredibly adept communicators. Try to improve your written communication and you'll benefit yourself not only at school now but in your job search in the future.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:06 PM on February 25, 2009
Actually, almost any major will do this if your grades are bad enough.
The other test i did literally get all the questions right with the exception of the last problem where i should have missed 5 pts...which would still be an A. but i got the first 3 questions exactly, but the professor grades horribly. i am going to have a talk with her and see if i can get some more pts. but she has been known to be a tough grader and never changes her mind. so i got a 68%.
I think you need to take some accountability. If you know the grading scale, and you know the material, there's no one to blame for your failures but yourself. This isn't entirely a bad thing--because you have the power to change your grades, either through improving your test taking skills or improving your mastery of the materials. Don't even waste your time (and your professor's time) begging for better grades; that time can be better spent studying.
And, seconding what amelioration said about your writing skills. I've taught writing classes specifically for engineers, and the vast majority of them were incredibly adept communicators. Try to improve your written communication and you'll benefit yourself not only at school now but in your job search in the future.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:06 PM on February 25, 2009
The answers in this thread might help you.
From my own personal experience, having gone through a computer engineering program, grades did not end up mattering for most of the class. You need good grades to go to grad school and win scholarships, but classmates of mine are working all over the place - Google, Microsoft, IBM, startups here and there - and I can think of at least a few colleagues who barely squeaked by with passing grades yet are now doing well at big companies like these. Practical experience (for example, from a co-op program) and good professional skills turn out to be much more important.
posted by PercussivePaul at 5:07 PM on February 25, 2009
From my own personal experience, having gone through a computer engineering program, grades did not end up mattering for most of the class. You need good grades to go to grad school and win scholarships, but classmates of mine are working all over the place - Google, Microsoft, IBM, startups here and there - and I can think of at least a few colleagues who barely squeaked by with passing grades yet are now doing well at big companies like these. Practical experience (for example, from a co-op program) and good professional skills turn out to be much more important.
posted by PercussivePaul at 5:07 PM on February 25, 2009
Ditto what most everyone else said. Caution: Twenty-five years of EE experience ahead...
In my experience, experience generally matters more than GPA. I say generally because you will run across a few potential employers, especially in the early years, who put a lot of emphasis on GPA because they have little else to judge you by. The uber-nerdiest of employers always ask for your GPA, regardless of years of experience; they may or may not hold your dream job, depending on your disposition.
Once hired, employers put much more emphasis on attendance (ie. showing up on time in the morning, staying late. keeping vacations to 5 contiguous days), hard work (do the heavy socializing with your workmates outside of work), and experience. You typically become the "house expert" on whatever it is you first get tasked with when you first arrive. Dive deep into it; it might not seem "glamorous," but it's likely to turn out to be more interesting than you think at first.
Update your "base" resume at least every six months. Keep a separate note sheet on things you've done that don't make it into your resume. After you get a few years' experience, you'll be surprised at the breadth of experience you've accumulated. When you interview for your next job, send along a resume tailored to the specific position you're applying for, based on your note sheet.
Keep an open mind when opportunities present themselves. I wanted to work in musical instrument and recording studio electronics design. Since I graduated, I've worked in automotive semiconductor HW/SW test design; test design and production management for "measurement-while-drilling" oilwell instrumentation; construction/utility equipment; managing the repair depot and engineering change functions in a specialty telephone manufacturer; product line manager in a communications semiconductor company. I'm currently doing marketing and project management for an oilfield instrumentation company, and I'm having a blast. This job and the "telephone" job I got through networking with former colleagues from the first oilfield company. The "semiconductor company" job I connected with through a fellow member of a local civic group. Build and maintain your professional network starting now with people your relatives and friends know, regardless of industry. I find LinkedIn to be the best professional networking resource, although I also use Plaxo.
Read "What Color is Your Parachute" as soon as you can to get a feel for what the "real world" of the job hunt is like.
That's all I have time for now. Contact me by MeMail if you have any questions.
You'll be fine.
ZMT (BSEE Cornell U. 1984, GPA 2.7; MBA UConn 1990, GPA 3.0)
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:32 PM on February 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
In my experience, experience generally matters more than GPA. I say generally because you will run across a few potential employers, especially in the early years, who put a lot of emphasis on GPA because they have little else to judge you by. The uber-nerdiest of employers always ask for your GPA, regardless of years of experience; they may or may not hold your dream job, depending on your disposition.
Once hired, employers put much more emphasis on attendance (ie. showing up on time in the morning, staying late. keeping vacations to 5 contiguous days), hard work (do the heavy socializing with your workmates outside of work), and experience. You typically become the "house expert" on whatever it is you first get tasked with when you first arrive. Dive deep into it; it might not seem "glamorous," but it's likely to turn out to be more interesting than you think at first.
Update your "base" resume at least every six months. Keep a separate note sheet on things you've done that don't make it into your resume. After you get a few years' experience, you'll be surprised at the breadth of experience you've accumulated. When you interview for your next job, send along a resume tailored to the specific position you're applying for, based on your note sheet.
Keep an open mind when opportunities present themselves. I wanted to work in musical instrument and recording studio electronics design. Since I graduated, I've worked in automotive semiconductor HW/SW test design; test design and production management for "measurement-while-drilling" oilwell instrumentation; construction/utility equipment; managing the repair depot and engineering change functions in a specialty telephone manufacturer; product line manager in a communications semiconductor company. I'm currently doing marketing and project management for an oilfield instrumentation company, and I'm having a blast. This job and the "telephone" job I got through networking with former colleagues from the first oilfield company. The "semiconductor company" job I connected with through a fellow member of a local civic group. Build and maintain your professional network starting now with people your relatives and friends know, regardless of industry. I find LinkedIn to be the best professional networking resource, although I also use Plaxo.
Read "What Color is Your Parachute" as soon as you can to get a feel for what the "real world" of the job hunt is like.
That's all I have time for now. Contact me by MeMail if you have any questions.
You'll be fine.
ZMT (BSEE Cornell U. 1984, GPA 2.7; MBA UConn 1990, GPA 3.0)
posted by ZenMasterThis at 5:32 PM on February 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
Amelioration is right about improving your written communication skills. You don't have to be perfect, but you do need to be reasonably clear and concise. I read a [technical] report today that made my eyes bleed, and it made me want to avoid working with the author altogether.
Those communication skills will be much more important than your grades. Having been on the other side of the interview desk, I personally don't put much stock in them. I've seen kids with barely over a 3.0 GPA ace our interviews, and they're vastly outnumbered by the kids with 3.9 GPAs who bomb hard. As everyone else says, unless you're going into academia or continuing to professional school, just know your stuff cold and you should be fine.
posted by universal_qlc at 6:02 PM on February 25, 2009
Those communication skills will be much more important than your grades. Having been on the other side of the interview desk, I personally don't put much stock in them. I've seen kids with barely over a 3.0 GPA ace our interviews, and they're vastly outnumbered by the kids with 3.9 GPAs who bomb hard. As everyone else says, unless you're going into academia or continuing to professional school, just know your stuff cold and you should be fine.
posted by universal_qlc at 6:02 PM on February 25, 2009
I'll take it a step further, and say that in most cases, it doesn't even matter whether you actually finished college or not.
Of course, there are always exceptions. But by and large, those exceptions are places that you don't want to work unless you're the kind of person who also thinks that grades should matter. Similarly, it's also possible to find employers that screen for marijuana use and forbid you from dating your co-workers, but they are easy (and advisable) to avoid.
posted by bingo at 7:22 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Of course, there are always exceptions. But by and large, those exceptions are places that you don't want to work unless you're the kind of person who also thinks that grades should matter. Similarly, it's also possible to find employers that screen for marijuana use and forbid you from dating your co-workers, but they are easy (and advisable) to avoid.
posted by bingo at 7:22 PM on February 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think that everyone's already covered whether grades matter, but can I suggest that you try taking some basic writing courses as a way of potentially improving your grades? As others have pointed out, your question is rambling and nearly incoherent. If I were a teacher and got a response like this on a test, you wouldn't pass, full stop.
Your writing is bad enough that I would almost suspect that English isn't your first language. Your point of view is inconsistent (I to him), your sentences don't contain full thoughts, and the information is poorly organized and difficult to parse. Writing this will, if not outright fail you, certainly drop your grades substantially.
I'd also argue that in the long run, being able to write functionally is going to be far more important than if you passed any given class with a D or an A.
posted by MeghanC at 7:44 PM on February 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
Your writing is bad enough that I would almost suspect that English isn't your first language. Your point of view is inconsistent (I to him), your sentences don't contain full thoughts, and the information is poorly organized and difficult to parse. Writing this will, if not outright fail you, certainly drop your grades substantially.
I'd also argue that in the long run, being able to write functionally is going to be far more important than if you passed any given class with a D or an A.
posted by MeghanC at 7:44 PM on February 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
Is there a chance that you have a learning disability such as attention deficit disorder which can complicate communication and focus? If you think you might have something like this, and you have health insurance that will cover the medical exam that documents the disorder, you would be entitled to extra time on the exams. From your description, it sounds like extra time would have helped you. Talk to the Center for Students with Disabilities at your school and see what they advise. I also agree with the suggestion above to see a college counselor about test anxiety.
Your tuition pays for these tutoring and counseling services, whether you use them or not. You should use all the resources available to you, because you really are there to learn, like you say.
As for your writing, you do not need to take a basic writing class if you have already completed your composition requirements (as a junior). What you might do is find the university writing center and sign up for some tutoring.
Good luck. And no, grades don't matter much outside of academia.
posted by egret at 8:33 PM on February 25, 2009
Your tuition pays for these tutoring and counseling services, whether you use them or not. You should use all the resources available to you, because you really are there to learn, like you say.
As for your writing, you do not need to take a basic writing class if you have already completed your composition requirements (as a junior). What you might do is find the university writing center and sign up for some tutoring.
Good luck. And no, grades don't matter much outside of academia.
posted by egret at 8:33 PM on February 25, 2009
OP: just wondering if there was any advice something to make me feel better. i have been feeling great the past 2 months, feeling like a new person, happy. and now i feel like the world's crashing down upon me.
AskMe: Your writing is bad, you should take a writing course, you might have a learning disability
Wow. OK, those of you who don't come from EE probably don't know that English proficiency has very little bearing on grades. Most courses are 100% technical (e.g. applied math and physics). Even so I wish some people had resisted the temptation to put down the OP, who (obviously, to me) is not asking for advice on improving his grades or diagnoses as to the source of his problems, but rather is feeling anxiety over his grades and is looking for help getting over it.
posted by PercussivePaul at 8:52 PM on February 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
AskMe: Your writing is bad, you should take a writing course, you might have a learning disability
Wow. OK, those of you who don't come from EE probably don't know that English proficiency has very little bearing on grades. Most courses are 100% technical (e.g. applied math and physics). Even so I wish some people had resisted the temptation to put down the OP, who (obviously, to me) is not asking for advice on improving his grades or diagnoses as to the source of his problems, but rather is feeling anxiety over his grades and is looking for help getting over it.
posted by PercussivePaul at 8:52 PM on February 25, 2009 [2 favorites]
grades matter if you are trying to get into graduate programs, but good test scores (GRE, etc), internships, and letters of rec matter a lot too
posted by Ekidnagrrl17 at 9:30 PM on February 25, 2009
posted by Ekidnagrrl17 at 9:30 PM on February 25, 2009
Of six or more employers I've had, from Fortune 500 to startup, none have asked me for my grades. I understand Google does, but they're the exception in my universe.
posted by zippy at 10:12 PM on February 25, 2009
posted by zippy at 10:12 PM on February 25, 2009
Grades don't matter that much. They matter to you. Instead of going to the prof to ask for a better grade, ask how you can improve. If you are mastering the content as much as you think, then there could be some small things that will make a difference. Also your professor will appreciate your willingness to improve. Taking and absorbing criticism is a skill that will help you later.
posted by Gor-ella at 7:37 AM on February 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Gor-ella at 7:37 AM on February 26, 2009 [1 favorite]
I have a cousin who went to Georgia Tech and majored in EE. He failed one class even when his girlfriend broke up with him. He got a good job afterwards, so I would not worry. The public and private sector will killing themselves trying to get electric and civil engineers, with all this energy talk and transmission siting. What really matters is your making it through the course.
posted by anniecat at 8:21 AM on February 26, 2009
posted by anniecat at 8:21 AM on February 26, 2009
Honestly, the OP's writing isn't as bad as some of what I've seen on this website. It seems like a lot of you are being snotty to the engineer because you have to work with some and feel frustrated by them. The poster is obviously upset, but from what I can tell, he's perfectly coherent. It's just AskMe. How can you possibly judge his writing skills from an informal question asked on the internet?
posted by anniecat at 8:30 AM on February 26, 2009
posted by anniecat at 8:30 AM on February 26, 2009
Honestly, the OP's writing isn't as bad as some of what I've seen on this website. It seems like a lot of you are being snotty to the engineer because you have to work with some and feel frustrated by them
My experiences teaching engineers were incredibly positive--at least at my university, they're largely very very dedicated students who turn in a very high caliber of work, written and otherwise.
If I had a hair-trigger response, it was due to the content of OP's post--his premise that his bad grades were the fault of the instructor, who needs to be cajoled into raising them. That's not a good attitude to take to school and an even worse one to take to the workplace. I stand by what I said--spending time studying or improving your study skills (which, if this was a written test, might include writing skills) is going to be a much better use of his time than would reading reassurances of his ego on the internet. Gor-ella's suggestion, to speak to the instructor about ways he can improve, is also a very good one.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:25 AM on February 26, 2009
My experiences teaching engineers were incredibly positive--at least at my university, they're largely very very dedicated students who turn in a very high caliber of work, written and otherwise.
If I had a hair-trigger response, it was due to the content of OP's post--his premise that his bad grades were the fault of the instructor, who needs to be cajoled into raising them. That's not a good attitude to take to school and an even worse one to take to the workplace. I stand by what I said--spending time studying or improving your study skills (which, if this was a written test, might include writing skills) is going to be a much better use of his time than would reading reassurances of his ego on the internet. Gor-ella's suggestion, to speak to the instructor about ways he can improve, is also a very good one.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 9:25 AM on February 26, 2009
To answer your actual question: take a deep breath and relax, concentrate on passing your courses and getting your degree. I know a lot of engineers and went to school with a bunch, at the University of Waterloo where there's a highly respected engineering program. It was tough for a lot of them, and mainly they were just focused on passing and getting the hell out of there, along with getting good co-op placements. The ones who did the best in the job market after graduating were the ones with the best personal skills. Entry level positions don't look for highly specialized skills, so impressing and engaging an interviewer seemed to be a determining factor.
In addition, I know that at my university, the counseling service offers a series of seminars on good test-taking and study skills. It might be worth looking to see if something like that exists at your school. You might be able to get some good tips to keep you from having to rush, as you were doing on the first test.
posted by dnesan at 10:13 AM on February 26, 2009
In addition, I know that at my university, the counseling service offers a series of seminars on good test-taking and study skills. It might be worth looking to see if something like that exists at your school. You might be able to get some good tips to keep you from having to rush, as you were doing on the first test.
posted by dnesan at 10:13 AM on February 26, 2009
those of you who don't come from EE probably don't know that English proficiency has very little bearing on grades. Most courses are 100% technical (e.g. applied math and physics).
Only in a borderline useless program could you avoid needing communication skills. The OP says that in a test he got the first 3 questions exactly, but the professor grades horribly. which implies that he is not managing to communicate his correct answer to the professor. He is upset because he does not think that he is getting grades that reflect his level of understanding. He should not just 'get over it', he should try to fix it. If someone is feeling down because of a solvable problem, the answer is not 'techniques to feel better about it' but 'techniques to solve the problem'.
posted by jacalata at 2:27 PM on February 26, 2009
Only in a borderline useless program could you avoid needing communication skills. The OP says that in a test he got the first 3 questions exactly, but the professor grades horribly. which implies that he is not managing to communicate his correct answer to the professor. He is upset because he does not think that he is getting grades that reflect his level of understanding. He should not just 'get over it', he should try to fix it. If someone is feeling down because of a solvable problem, the answer is not 'techniques to feel better about it' but 'techniques to solve the problem'.
posted by jacalata at 2:27 PM on February 26, 2009
Response by poster: Hi. Thanks for the responses. I have no idea how the "I" became a "he" in the first paragraph, but believe me me writing is no where near as bad as that. And i agree with PercussivePaul, in that English really has nothing to do with the grades reflected in EE courses. I Haven't really had to write a paragraph, aside from lab reports, actually in depth since gen-ed classes like history and english.
My current GPA is a 2.9. I haven't got lower than a C in any of my classes, and still have 2 grade forgiveness options. The reason i am wrote this, i suppose, is because lately i have been getting stuck with some professors who just generally grade and make the class a lot harder than other professors. And lately i have been talking with friends who are a semester behind me and are involved with internships and research opportunities, where they have much better GPA's than me. Many times just because they had an easier professor.
Looking over the tests i did over complicate things a little (along with many others), which wasted my time a bit where i didn't get a chance to check for small errors (which should of been partial credit, but my professor does not believe in partial credit).
But lately as i try to graduate May 2010, I have had a heavy course load, and get nervous about not doing well in many classes...though the minnimum GPA is a 2.25 for EE, i would really like to be at a 3.0 (anything less has seem to be brainwashed into my head as terrible)
posted by loser8008 at 7:36 PM on February 26, 2009
My current GPA is a 2.9. I haven't got lower than a C in any of my classes, and still have 2 grade forgiveness options. The reason i am wrote this, i suppose, is because lately i have been getting stuck with some professors who just generally grade and make the class a lot harder than other professors. And lately i have been talking with friends who are a semester behind me and are involved with internships and research opportunities, where they have much better GPA's than me. Many times just because they had an easier professor.
Looking over the tests i did over complicate things a little (along with many others), which wasted my time a bit where i didn't get a chance to check for small errors (which should of been partial credit, but my professor does not believe in partial credit).
But lately as i try to graduate May 2010, I have had a heavy course load, and get nervous about not doing well in many classes...though the minnimum GPA is a 2.25 for EE, i would really like to be at a 3.0 (anything less has seem to be brainwashed into my head as terrible)
posted by loser8008 at 7:36 PM on February 26, 2009
English really has nothing to do with the grades reflected in EE courses.
I believe this, because none of the engineers I know can write well, even if English is their first language. Scott Adams might be the exception. ;)
So if it's an EE degree that matters, don't worry about the English. It pains me to say that, but it seems to be true.
posted by rokusan at 12:59 PM on March 1, 2009
I believe this, because none of the engineers I know can write well, even if English is their first language. Scott Adams might be the exception. ;)
So if it's an EE degree that matters, don't worry about the English. It pains me to say that, but it seems to be true.
posted by rokusan at 12:59 PM on March 1, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by SpiffyRob at 2:09 PM on February 25, 2009