How can I learn to be a good date again?

February 8, 2009 10:46 AM

DatingFilter: How do I learn how to date again, after a long-term relationship?

So, I got out of a 3-year relationship about two months ago. It was pretty awful near the end, and bordered on being emotionally and physically abusive. Now I'm starting to date again, but it turns out that I've pretty much forgotten how to do it.

I've forgotten how to read the social cues of early courtship - I can't figure out whether it would be appropriate at any given time to hold her hand, or put my arm around her, or kiss her. As a result, I end up just not doing anything, and probably come off as uninterested.

Now, though, I'm dating someone that I like a whole lot, who I'm pretty sure likes me a whole lot too, and I really want things to go well. We've been "dating," if you could call it that, for about a month now. But I'm completely incapable of making a move, and I'm worried that I'm screwing things up by not doing so. The thing is, I really don't like the early part of dating - I'm pretty much a homebody, and greatly prefer the hanging-out-in-our-pajamas-playing-scrabble part of a relationship to the going-out-to-dinner-and-a-movie part. So, maybe I just feel uncomfortable or on-point in the going-out sitiuations, but I realize that, to a certain degree, that part is important.

How does one re-learn how to do this stuff - how to be charming and entertaining and sweep her off her feet? I'm pretty sure that I used to be really good at this kind of thing - but that was more than 3 years ago, in college, when these things were very different. I know that only being out of a relationship for two months isn't very long, and that these things will probably come with time, but I feel like I'm making no progress in this department, and really don't want to get stuck in a rut.

posted by clcapps to Human Relations (17 answers total)

This may be helpful to you: Tucker Max, one of my personal heroes, has a great deal of advice about developing game on his advice forum. Start here. I feel your pain as I just came out of a 5+ year relationship and feel like I've totally forgotten how to play the game myself.
posted by mikeo2 at 10:52 AM on February 8, 2009

Dear Heavens. If you like the woman stay away from Tucker Max.

You're over thinking it. You don't need to relearn anything and there is no formula. Take your cues from her.
posted by 26.2 at 11:04 AM on February 8, 2009 [13 favorites]

I would actually say that, if it's only two months since your last relationship ended, that your judgement may still be a little off-kilter in general, and that that may be why you're a little uncertain about what to do when.

Not that I'm saying you shouldn't date and have fun; I'm just pointing out that it's only been two months, and you may be unconsciously still trying to process some parts of the breakup and thus your "dating brain" may not be firing on all cylinders right now, and so that's why you feel a little at sea. You like the hanging-out-watching-TV part in general anyway, but I'm wondering if you feel that even more so right now because only two months ago, you still HAD that.

As trite as the "just be you and go with the flow" advice is, that's probably the best. Don't try to push yourself to do or say or be anything you're uncomfortable doing, saying, or being; and forgive yourself if it feels like you don't know what's going on right now. You personally may not end up being the most scintillating thing your current date has going on right now, but in the long run, what you want IS someone who can take you as you are, whatsoever "as you are" may be in a given moment.

I'd focus on just going easy on yourself and trying to just have fun, however you and she define "fun." If all you get out of this is the odd movie and maybe a trip to the zoo, and maybe a little kissing once but that's it, so what? Movies, zoos, and kissing are fun.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 11:10 AM on February 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

I believe that in real life there are fewer "cues of early courtship" than one would imagine, especially beyond the, erhm, freshman level where 'being yourself' might well be the very thing that is seen as attractive - as opposed to acting like one thinks one is expected to do.

I would play it by intuition. I don't even know whether your not knowing "how to do it" has to do anything with "forgetting" and not rather with that you, only 2 months after an apparently rocky breakup, perhaps aren't quite back at the start line emotionally. I say this because it took me five years before I was comfortable with dating again, and when I finally was, it worked better than ever before.

On the other hand, if you're positive about the causal chain as described in your question, why not tell her your trouble? It's direct and potentially endearing - that is, if you observe a sensible previous-relationship-talk-avoidance policy, for which she likely will be grateful.
posted by Namlit at 11:25 AM on February 8, 2009

Go out, genuinely have fun and be happy alone. Women are attracted to confident, happy men just like you men are attracted to those of us in that same vein. Don't try too hard. Don't have another guy shadowing you or whatever when you're talking to a woman; sometimes a guy friend can throw off your flirting by simply distracting you.

Practice striking up conversations with women that would normally intimidate you just to get used to testing your confidence and you might meet someone you wouldn't normally expect to jibe with; be polite to girls who hit on you that you're not interested in. Other women notice nice manners; you might catch a girl's eye just being nice out in public. Those are usually the best ways to ease back into dating; just enjoying your own life, and being aware of considerate of others.

When you do find a girl you like and are thinking of asking her out: Pay attention to what she says, don't interrupt, maintain eye contact when she's talking to you, smile frequently, and then later bring up those things she mentioned again casually. Women want to feel captivating, so really engage with her on the things you share in common.

Compliment her on something other than her looks; sometimes just stop and look at her and if she asks why, say because you just think she's stunning and you couldn't help yourself and then look away and smile.

If that doesn't do it, she's not into you. Just being observant of women and letting them know you are engaged by them (beyond an "I'm tolerating and nodding and not listening and trying to NOT look at your chest...") way is pretty novel in itself.

If you are flirting with a girl and she looks away, then looks back at you and smiles, holds eye contact for more than 10 seconds, and you're into her? That's a cue she likes you. Touch her arm, kiss her, ask her out. It's just that easy.

Women lean into men they find attractive. They mirror your body movements. They maintain eye contact. They touch themselves (arm, hair, face) frequently because they imagine you touching them. Their pupils may be slightly dilated. Lots of people don't know body language cues; use these to your advantage.

Final word of advice: when two people kiss and one touches the other's face/hair/throat, this is a sign of adoration/nurturing. That girl is really into you; run with it.
posted by Unicorn on the cob at 11:25 AM on February 8, 2009 [8 favorites]

First of all, let's not take mikeo2's advice and think of this whole thing as a "game."

Seconding 26.2 and adding that just being yourself is clearly working right now. If she's hung around long enough for you to be calling it 'dating,' something is going right. I can't emphasize this enough: be yourself, be yourself, be yourself. If that means you suggest a quiet evening in instead of going out, do that. Take her cues from there, and follow her lead.
posted by cooker girl at 11:26 AM on February 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

Wow, I'm guessing that first comment recommending Tucker Max was just bait... but on the off chance it was sincere, please refer to this handy Tucker Max Field Guide, published by Gawker:

http://gawker.com/5041503/field-guide-tucker-max

With regard to dating, the first and most important rule is to be a NICE guy. Seriously. Listen, be human, ask about her life and her day. There is no game. (And girls that are looking for it don't win in a basic cost/benefit analysis.)

Good luck!
posted by smallstatic at 11:28 AM on February 8, 2009

Oh goodness, it is NOT a binary choice between Tucker f'ing Max and the hand-wavey "there are no rules, there is nothing you can do, be yourself, be nice".
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 11:38 AM on February 8, 2009 [2 favorites]

With regard to dating, the first and most important rule is to be a NICE CONFIDENT guy.

If you tend to put women on a pedestal, then some amount of Tucker Max/Neil Strauss is probably good for your diet, but only to the extent that it makes you realize that you do have to play hard to get to some extent. Neediness/desperation is lethal. In fact, if you're anything like this guy, then developing your inner-asshole will probably bring you closer to a healthy amount of selfishness.

On the other hand, if you feel totally at-ease and non-needy around girls, then, yeah, just be a normal dude, and err on the side of being a little too aggressive (as in, just go for the kiss--if she doesn't want to kiss you, it's her job to say no, but she'll appreciate your confidence).
posted by mpls2 at 11:45 AM on February 8, 2009

Hmm, just noticed that the post I linked to was apparently a hoax. Well, you get the idea, anyways.
posted by mpls2 at 11:47 AM on February 8, 2009

Maybe not the most popular method, but I just talk to girls about courtship-type things. Instead of trying to initiate sex and hope I don't get shot down, I say something like, "So how do you feel about us having sex?" To me, it takes a lot more confidence to talk about something like that than to try and do it. I suppose it doesn't hurt that I'm generally a very confident, assertive person anyway, and that I tend to say whatever I'm thinking.

Similarly, if you're not at that point and you're just wondering if you should kiss her, say something like, "I'd really like to kiss you -- is that okay?" Don't wait for the "right" moment, or even a romantic moment, to do it; just bring it up conversationally. You can do this in a confident -- rather than a puppy-dog -- way, btw, even though it sounds weird. Women have told me later that they thought it was unusual but strangely romantic, and found it attractive that I'm comfortable about things that most guys shy away from.
posted by coolguymichael at 12:51 PM on February 8, 2009

Dating advice aside, I'd recommend you give yourself a lot more time alone to heal than one month in between Bad Ex and Good New GF. Date for fun, not for keeps, and take lots of breathing space. Few of us are going to bound back in top form after a three year long "almost" emotionally and physically abusive relationship. Don't push yourself, and communicate honestly with this new girl that even though you really like her, you're going to have to take things at a snail's pace.

Even if by the end of the relationship you simply detested your girlfriend, and fantasized about leaving her, and gleefully burned all over her clothes on your front lawn, you were still someone's boyfriend for no less than three years. So you've been single an entire four weeks and now you're diving head-first into a brand new companionship?

You're probably rusty, but the unsteady awkwardness could also be your darker fears saying "Hold it cowboy, didn't you just survive that Mexican stand-off a couple weeks ago? You sure you wanna be back in this saddle already?" I can't sufficiently emphasize the basic necessity of taking an emotional breather after the demise of a long-term relationship so you can learn who you are a person, not as a boyfriend. You're not going to be a great soulmate to the new girl if you're still reeling from the whiplash of a very recent break-up.
posted by zoomorphic at 1:50 PM on February 8, 2009

Oh Jesus. If you ever want to have anything approaching an adult, trusting relationship again, do the opposite of whatever Tucker Max tells you to do.

My biggest piece of advice is to take time for yourself. Two months is not much time. Before you go back into the dating word, try to make sure you are as fully formed a person as you can be. Make sure you are generally happy with who you are, and it will not be painful or upsetting to meet new people and attract people who like you for who you are as well.

And because it bears repeating: NO TUCKER MAX.
posted by piratebowling at 2:05 PM on February 8, 2009

Okay, so I poked around your history, and your other freak-out relationship AskMe post really stuck out at me. You have a history of falling into relationships almost as soon as you're single. I know it's terrifying to be unattached when you've spent so many years in a protracted relationship, but you write about this new girl with same burgeoning enthusiasm that you've written about the girl in the previous, admittedly toxic relationship.

Mios dios, being single doesn't mean you have to sign off forever on your chance to be happy and in love. In fact, it's pretty much the reverse. I was in your position once and felt like my entire personal worth hinged on my merits as a lover and companion. I am so, so glad that I moved beyond the desperate terror of loneliness and learned to appreciate a quiet bedroom and the pleasure of making plans for no one other than myself. Your post is dripping with anxiety as you rush headlong into the same patterns that characterized the past three years of your life that you can't take back. You can keep moving in circles and come back to us in another three years with the same problem, or you can move forward in a new direction entirely. It's up to you.
posted by zoomorphic at 2:12 PM on February 8, 2009 [3 favorites]

...Echoing what zoomorphic just said; if this kind of serial monogamy is your pattern, it may end up biting you in the ass in the long run.

Again -- not saying you have to be a hermit, but there's something to be said for just staying single with occasional playing-the-field.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 3:04 PM on February 8, 2009 [1 favorite]

I agree with the above--I don't think you've given yourself enough time to heal. When you're comfortable with yourself again, these kinds of things don't require as much over-analyzing.

For what it's worth, I would not put up with "dating" a guy for a month with no physical contact. My boyfriend kissed me at the end of our first date in such a way that it was very clear he was not in this for my friendship. I didn't have to go home and wonder, does he like me, or does he LIKElike me? So when you are ready to really go for it, GO for it. Sending off mixed signals is likely to keep people at arm's length.
posted by peanut_mcgillicuty at 7:01 AM on February 9, 2009

I think doing things that just get you around people you don't know. Often this sort of question gets answered by "Join a book club!". It's not that you'll meet the love of your life there, it's that you'll get good at meeting new people and striking up a conversation. You are creating small victories that allow you to be confident that you can stand next to someone you've never met and have an interesting conversation with them. As a side bonus, you are meeting interesting people and doing fun things.
posted by Freen at 10:13 AM on February 9, 2009 [1 favorite]