890 Ok?
February 7, 2009 9:01 AM Subscribe
Give me the straight truth here, please.
I recently took the GRE. I was pretty upset with my score: 500 on my verbal and 390 on my quant score. My writing was a 4. I'm a psychology major with a communications minor. What are the chances of me getting into grad school? My GPA is a 3.5 at a small liberal arts private college.
I recently took the GRE. I was pretty upset with my score: 500 on my verbal and 390 on my quant score. My writing was a 4. I'm a psychology major with a communications minor. What are the chances of me getting into grad school? My GPA is a 3.5 at a small liberal arts private college.
If you have Research Internships and connections, this could be utterly meaningless. If not frankly that score is abysmal and would almost certainly way heavily in those schools that review an applicants GRE scores. Perhaps schools that don't rank using those scores.
posted by Rubbstone at 9:11 AM on February 7, 2009
posted by Rubbstone at 9:11 AM on February 7, 2009
I was always told that my GRE score didn't matter... unless it was bad. The 4 on writing is decent, as far as I'm concerned, the 500 verbal meh, but the quantitative score is particularly low and might raise some flags. Especially at more competitive schools.
If I were you I'd apply anyway to a couple schools, but plan on taking the GRE again and applying for spring admission.
posted by sbutler at 9:15 AM on February 7, 2009
If I were you I'd apply anyway to a couple schools, but plan on taking the GRE again and applying for spring admission.
posted by sbutler at 9:15 AM on February 7, 2009
I took the GRE in 1995, and it seems to be scored differently now than it was then, but I got an 800 on the analytical, in the very high 700s in the verbal (98th percentile in both cases), and something in the 600s for the quantitative. I also had an undergraduate GPA of 3.67, and my Master's marks were A- or A. I still got turned down at most places I applied for the Ph.D.
You're probably fucked.
posted by mcwetboy at 9:21 AM on February 7, 2009
You're probably fucked.
posted by mcwetboy at 9:21 AM on February 7, 2009
You can always take the GRE again. I don't know how much you studied before taking it the first time, but the quantitative section especially is something you can totally, totally study for. Get one of the good review books and spend two or three weeks relearning everything from high school math. That's what I did, and the difference in my scores between my practice exams before and after studying were huge.
posted by you're a kitty! at 9:22 AM on February 7, 2009
posted by you're a kitty! at 9:22 AM on February 7, 2009
Is it imperative that you go to grad school in the US? I have a degree from the UK, and in my experience it holds up just as well. No GRE required -- they didn't even ask.
posted by milquetoast at 9:26 AM on February 7, 2009
posted by milquetoast at 9:26 AM on February 7, 2009
Are you applying for Fall 2009 admission? If there is time, I would definitely take it again if I were you. The quantitative section is pretty easy to study for if you get a book. But you'll have to put in the time. A 390 is pretty low, even if you're applying for a communications degree. It's especially low if you're applying for psychology programs which often have some sort of research methods statistics component. I used to tutor for the Princeton Review. It was a little bit harder to get students to improve their verbal scores, but not that much more difficult. If you don't have time, concentrate on just the math part. But if you do, I would study hard for all of it. The 4 on the writing is not that bad.
GRE scores are usually the only thing that schools have to judge applicants that's the same across the board (grades vary from college to college, so it's hard to tell whether one applicant's B is the same as another's A). There are often cutoff scores for acceptance, and sometimes it's used to differentiate between 2 similarly qualified students.
posted by bluefly at 9:32 AM on February 7, 2009
GRE scores are usually the only thing that schools have to judge applicants that's the same across the board (grades vary from college to college, so it's hard to tell whether one applicant's B is the same as another's A). There are often cutoff scores for acceptance, and sometimes it's used to differentiate between 2 similarly qualified students.
posted by bluefly at 9:32 AM on February 7, 2009
I was a psych major who went highly ranked social work masters program at a state school. They did not require the GRE. I never took it.
posted by kimdog at 9:35 AM on February 7, 2009
posted by kimdog at 9:35 AM on February 7, 2009
It really depends on what you want to go to graduate school for, but if you're looking to get a PhD, be aware that most competitive programs definitely have GRE cutoffs that are significantly higher than 890. You can always take it again, and different programs regard multiple scores in different ways.
However, the most important part of admission to a doctoral program of any kind is going to be relevant research experience.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 9:59 AM on February 7, 2009
However, the most important part of admission to a doctoral program of any kind is going to be relevant research experience.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 9:59 AM on February 7, 2009
I have a friend who bombed the LSAT, studied his ass off, took it again, and got into a top 20 law school.
So I say study and take it again. Maybe you can take some undergrad math classes to bring up your quantitative score. The LSAT measures your ability to answer particular questions on a particular day not your innate intelligence. Imagine what kind of score you'd get if you took the SATs again.
posted by delmoi at 10:05 AM on February 7, 2009
So I say study and take it again. Maybe you can take some undergrad math classes to bring up your quantitative score. The LSAT measures your ability to answer particular questions on a particular day not your innate intelligence. Imagine what kind of score you'd get if you took the SATs again.
posted by delmoi at 10:05 AM on February 7, 2009
The GRE is completely crammable if you a) re-learn the math you forgot from high school in the weeks leading up to the exam and b) you get some damn sleep the night before the exam. I scored well above my practice test quantitative scores but well below my practice test analytical scores because I only got about 2 hours of sleep.
Take some more time to prep, breathe, relax and take it again.
posted by maudlin at 10:11 AM on February 7, 2009
Take some more time to prep, breathe, relax and take it again.
posted by maudlin at 10:11 AM on February 7, 2009
I work in the test prep trade and your scores aren't getting you in anywhere. Schools will cut you so fast you won't even know what happened because schools that look at scores publish their average accepted scored and you'd be bringing them way down. That means that they look less competitive and less prestigious. They wouldn't risk that for you even if you donated a wing of a building. That is why schools have score cutoffs.
If I were you, I'd apply only to schools that don't look at scores, or retake after you've prepped heavily.
You can and must raise your Quant score. One thing a lot of students don't know is that for programs in the humanities, math scores sometimes count more because it is assumed everyone applying will have a good Verbal score. The math score offers a better way to compare people with like grades and like Verbal scores.
I think you need to get your Verbal into the 6's and your Math into the mid-5's in order to compete at a decent grad school that would be worth going to (that looks at GRE scores).
Like bluefly said, the math is the most teachable and is pretty straightforward once you learn it, so don't despair. But definitely don't apply with your scores.
posted by rmless at 10:15 AM on February 7, 2009 [2 favorites]
If I were you, I'd apply only to schools that don't look at scores, or retake after you've prepped heavily.
You can and must raise your Quant score. One thing a lot of students don't know is that for programs in the humanities, math scores sometimes count more because it is assumed everyone applying will have a good Verbal score. The math score offers a better way to compare people with like grades and like Verbal scores.
I think you need to get your Verbal into the 6's and your Math into the mid-5's in order to compete at a decent grad school that would be worth going to (that looks at GRE scores).
Like bluefly said, the math is the most teachable and is pretty straightforward once you learn it, so don't despair. But definitely don't apply with your scores.
posted by rmless at 10:15 AM on February 7, 2009 [2 favorites]
I was looking around last night and was actually surprised to see that some programs don't ask for a GRE. Not sure how common that is in your field, but you could just apply to places that don't want GRE scores.
If you get in somewhere and do well, then that may open up opportunities such as transferring into another program at another school after a year or two of solid work.
Hang in there. If there is one thing I've learned from higher education it's that there is always "another way" in...
posted by wfrgms at 10:26 AM on February 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
If you get in somewhere and do well, then that may open up opportunities such as transferring into another program at another school after a year or two of solid work.
Hang in there. If there is one thing I've learned from higher education it's that there is always "another way" in...
posted by wfrgms at 10:26 AM on February 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Since you asked for it to be given to you straight: according to the Guide to the Use of GRE Scores '08-'09, your percentile rankings for each section are 61st percentile for Verbal, 11th percential for Quantitative, and 37th percentile for Analytic. These are not encouraging numbers, especially in the Quantitive but also in the Analytic.
If you can afford it, take the test again. From my experience sitting on admissions committees (physics, not psychology), GRE scores on this level are a big ol' red flag on your application. The institutions you apply to will still see your current scores, but if they've got some higher scores next to them their negative effects will be mitigated. And as folks above have mentioned, be sure your personal statement and your letters of recommendation are in tip-top shape. Good luck.
posted by Johnny Assay at 10:28 AM on February 7, 2009
If you can afford it, take the test again. From my experience sitting on admissions committees (physics, not psychology), GRE scores on this level are a big ol' red flag on your application. The institutions you apply to will still see your current scores, but if they've got some higher scores next to them their negative effects will be mitigated. And as folks above have mentioned, be sure your personal statement and your letters of recommendation are in tip-top shape. Good luck.
posted by Johnny Assay at 10:28 AM on February 7, 2009
Your verbal score is not great but might not be a huge factor, depending on what people are looking for and how good your letters are. Your quantitative score is quite low, relative to the applicant pool (though I'm not exactly in psychology), and would be an issue even for someone looking at your file who basically doesn't care about GREs. I am such a person, but I do notice unusually high or unusually low scores; also, psychology grad students need to be able to handle some not-so-easy statistical methods. I recommend taking a GRE prep class if you can manage it -- improving a quantitative score substantially is quite doable.
posted by advil at 11:02 AM on February 7, 2009
posted by advil at 11:02 AM on February 7, 2009
If possible, retake the test as soon as you can. If not, write to your future major professor. You will be working with someone right? Be upfront and say that you are interested in x,y and z and include your test scores/gpa (better yet your cv). Here are a few possible outcomes:
a) Professor does not reply
b) Professor says thanks for the email but you won't get accepted here without better scores.
c) Professor wants to hear more about your research interests etc. Then after that asks you to apply but cannot help with you getting accepted.
d) You and professor bat emails back and forth and see each other as a good fit. Professor tells you to apply. He/she will probably give the admissions committee a heads up. Still does not guarantee that you will get accepted but your chances are way higher than with c.
Unless you have reasons not to, retake the test. It's very likely that you will get better scores. You could also write to a professor and see what happens. If you get a b) or a c), then you really must retake the test. If you get d), which would be rare (unless you have other credentials/circumstances that stand out), then go ahead and apply.
my 0.02. Good luck!
posted by special-k at 11:10 AM on February 7, 2009
a) Professor does not reply
b) Professor says thanks for the email but you won't get accepted here without better scores.
c) Professor wants to hear more about your research interests etc. Then after that asks you to apply but cannot help with you getting accepted.
d) You and professor bat emails back and forth and see each other as a good fit. Professor tells you to apply. He/she will probably give the admissions committee a heads up. Still does not guarantee that you will get accepted but your chances are way higher than with c.
Unless you have reasons not to, retake the test. It's very likely that you will get better scores. You could also write to a professor and see what happens. If you get a b) or a c), then you really must retake the test. If you get d), which would be rare (unless you have other credentials/circumstances that stand out), then go ahead and apply.
my 0.02. Good luck!
posted by special-k at 11:10 AM on February 7, 2009
Just some information: I'm currently in a PsyD program. My undergrad GPA was 3.7 and my GRE scores were: verbal 540, quantative 650, and analytical 690 (before they changed to writing). I applied to 10 schools (only one did not require the GRE). I ended up getting interviewed at 5 and was accepted to 3. I actually go to the school that didn't require the GRE because I liked it the best.
I agree with others that those scores don't make you very competitive for PhD/PsyD programs (I know you're anon but it would help if you could tell us what type of program you're intersted in). You can find programs out there that don't require the GRE (like mine) but you will probably be very limited in number and you might have to consider moving (which is a big deal for some people). My recommendation is that if you're okay with this then don't worry about taking it again. However, if you're dead set on going to a specific school or staying in a particular location, then take a GRE class and study study study to try to get those scores up.
Good luck! And if you have any questions about psych grad school or my program feel free to mefi mail me.
posted by Nolechick11 at 12:33 PM on February 7, 2009
I agree with others that those scores don't make you very competitive for PhD/PsyD programs (I know you're anon but it would help if you could tell us what type of program you're intersted in). You can find programs out there that don't require the GRE (like mine) but you will probably be very limited in number and you might have to consider moving (which is a big deal for some people). My recommendation is that if you're okay with this then don't worry about taking it again. However, if you're dead set on going to a specific school or staying in a particular location, then take a GRE class and study study study to try to get those scores up.
Good luck! And if you have any questions about psych grad school or my program feel free to mefi mail me.
posted by Nolechick11 at 12:33 PM on February 7, 2009
After my wife ttok her GRE her prospective supervisor told her that he just requires it of applicants to make them prove how serious they are. I don't know that he even looked at her score. So I guess what I'm saying is: apply anyway, but if you don't get in, retake the test.
posted by arcticwoman at 1:52 PM on February 7, 2009
posted by arcticwoman at 1:52 PM on February 7, 2009
I teach in the humanities at a mid-range school. We don't look at applications with GRE scores below 550 for verbal. And quant needs to be at least in the 500s whatever social science-y field you'd puruse. In fact, I'd say quant and verbal both need to be in the 550 range to get placed in the "let's have a look pile."
You can achieve this goal if you study the test for a couple of weeks (maybe longer since you've got a way to go in math).
If your scores come up to the acceptable range (mid 500s), no one will care about the scores of your first attempt.
Don't get me wrong: I despite standardized testing with all my heart and thing it tells us virtually nothing meaningful. That said, your scores though set off warning bells for me as a teacher. Students who start grad programs with scores that low generally struggle in relation to their peers.
Please talk to your professors in the field you wish to pursue at a graduate level. They should give you an honest assessment of your chances of flourishing in a graduate program. Even better, they will have some intereting suggestions that don't ingoIt's not a path for everyone.
posted by vincele at 2:09 PM on February 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
You can achieve this goal if you study the test for a couple of weeks (maybe longer since you've got a way to go in math).
If your scores come up to the acceptable range (mid 500s), no one will care about the scores of your first attempt.
Don't get me wrong: I despite standardized testing with all my heart and thing it tells us virtually nothing meaningful. That said, your scores though set off warning bells for me as a teacher. Students who start grad programs with scores that low generally struggle in relation to their peers.
Please talk to your professors in the field you wish to pursue at a graduate level. They should give you an honest assessment of your chances of flourishing in a graduate program. Even better, they will have some intereting suggestions that don't ingoIt's not a path for everyone.
posted by vincele at 2:09 PM on February 7, 2009 [1 favorite]
Your scores may not matter to your prospective advisor at all. However, many universities and many programs within them have set-in-stone minimum scores below which you don't have a chance of even being considered by an advisor. They seem to be around the 1000-1100 range (Quant + Verbal) at most schools I'm familiar with. In addition, much funding for graduate school is distributed at least in part based on scores and GPA (and those scores are much higher than the bare minimum). You definitely want funding, so that alone should be a good enough reason to try again.
I lucked out that I went into the GRE with no preparation my senior year of college and made a good enough score and never thought about it again. Most people I know did some studying and several of them, who knew themselves to be bad at standardized tests, took a year to work after college at some not particularly challenging job so that they could devote time to GRE cram courses and studying. All of these people are now in grad school. You can be, too, but it's going to require some work.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:25 PM on February 7, 2009
I lucked out that I went into the GRE with no preparation my senior year of college and made a good enough score and never thought about it again. Most people I know did some studying and several of them, who knew themselves to be bad at standardized tests, took a year to work after college at some not particularly challenging job so that they could devote time to GRE cram courses and studying. All of these people are now in grad school. You can be, too, but it's going to require some work.
posted by hydropsyche at 2:25 PM on February 7, 2009
i'd take it again. i took it twice and made a HUGE jump on my verbal score the second time. I know everyone's saying study for the quant part, but it certainly wouldn't hurt if you killed the verbal too. a LOT of it is just vocabulary, and there are plenty of books with 'commonly tested' GRE vocab words. some of the books come with flashcards, I made my own because it helped me learn them.
All I'm saying is, if you're going to be retaking it anyway (yes, you should) then you might as well improve BOTH scores. i don't think its that hard to raise your verbal if you study vocab. the book i used* also had lists of what different prefixes and parts of words meant in Latin, so if I didn't recognize a word I could still figure out what it meant. do yourself a favor and work on both. honestly, i felt like i didnt spend THAT much time studying, and my verbal score the second time was awesome. not because i'm naturally so awesome- as my first test proved- but because that section is easy to study for if you make the time to do it! I went up 110 points just on that section.
. . . as an afterthought, i kinda hate grad school. are you sure you need to go? if yes, well then nevermind, and use my advice above.
*this book I used, which can be purchased for practically nothing on Amazon
posted by lblair at 2:53 PM on February 7, 2009
All I'm saying is, if you're going to be retaking it anyway (yes, you should) then you might as well improve BOTH scores. i don't think its that hard to raise your verbal if you study vocab. the book i used* also had lists of what different prefixes and parts of words meant in Latin, so if I didn't recognize a word I could still figure out what it meant. do yourself a favor and work on both. honestly, i felt like i didnt spend THAT much time studying, and my verbal score the second time was awesome. not because i'm naturally so awesome- as my first test proved- but because that section is easy to study for if you make the time to do it! I went up 110 points just on that section.
. . . as an afterthought, i kinda hate grad school. are you sure you need to go? if yes, well then nevermind, and use my advice above.
*this book I used, which can be purchased for practically nothing on Amazon
posted by lblair at 2:53 PM on February 7, 2009
I haven't read the other responses because I'm swamped grading midterms, so this may have been addressed, but as a graduate student familiar with the review of applications for prospective graduate students, I can say that it is not uncommon for programs to simply throw out the applications of students below a threshold. This year everyone below 500 on either section was cut without any consideration of the rest of the application.
Take it again.
posted by Derive the Hamiltonian of... at 4:58 PM on February 7, 2009
Take it again.
posted by Derive the Hamiltonian of... at 4:58 PM on February 7, 2009
In support of what others have said, I recently started grad school in Psychology, and I remember during the application process that several schools had a threshold of 1200, where supposedly if your score was below that, they'd just toss your application. I do not know if this is how it actually worked in practice, but I wouldn't want to take all that time to prepare grad school applications just to have my GRE score possibly disqualify me right off the bat.
Also agreeing with those that said that even for schools without a strict cutoff, they'll most likely be concerned about your math score. In my program, despite what area you're in (clinical, social, cognitive, etc.), you have to take a fairly rigorous series of statistics courses in your first year, so I think an admissions committee would worry about how you'd fare in a course like that.
posted by rebel_rebel at 6:41 PM on February 7, 2009
Also agreeing with those that said that even for schools without a strict cutoff, they'll most likely be concerned about your math score. In my program, despite what area you're in (clinical, social, cognitive, etc.), you have to take a fairly rigorous series of statistics courses in your first year, so I think an admissions committee would worry about how you'd fare in a course like that.
posted by rebel_rebel at 6:41 PM on February 7, 2009
Depends on your field.
Are you applying to schools/programs, or applying to specific labs/supervisors?
Cold call the supervisors (email...) and ask if they are accepting grad students and tell them a little bit about yourself and what you're interested in.
Having a sponsor makes grades, marks, test scores, even prior criminal convictions and time spent... all go away.
posted by porpoise at 7:04 PM on February 7, 2009
Are you applying to schools/programs, or applying to specific labs/supervisors?
Cold call the supervisors (email...) and ask if they are accepting grad students and tell them a little bit about yourself and what you're interested in.
Having a sponsor makes grades, marks, test scores, even prior criminal convictions and time spent... all go away.
posted by porpoise at 7:04 PM on February 7, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by wocka wocka wocka at 9:11 AM on February 7, 2009