Why is Sudan frequently referred to with an article, as in the Sudan?
January 28, 2009 5:16 PM Subscribe
Why is Sudan frequently referred to with an article, as in the Sudan?
Best answer: Sudan is both a country and a region including the country, which I believe is what "The Sudan" refers to.
(The online etymology dictionary also tells me that Sudan is from:
Bilad-al-sudan, lit. "country of the blacks,"
which you would use an article for I guess?)
As for referring to countries in the feminine, which extends well beyond Germany and Israel, there doesn't appear to be a consensus besides that it's not a formal necessity so much as a poetic conceit and sign of affection.
posted by Nomiconic at 5:35 PM on January 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
(The online etymology dictionary also tells me that Sudan is from:
Bilad-al-sudan, lit. "country of the blacks,"
which you would use an article for I guess?)
As for referring to countries in the feminine, which extends well beyond Germany and Israel, there doesn't appear to be a consensus besides that it's not a formal necessity so much as a poetic conceit and sign of affection.
posted by Nomiconic at 5:35 PM on January 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
Best answer: According to TESOL's newsletter back in 1997...
Nowadays the name of the country is Sudan, not the Sudan. This goes along with two other well-known changes of this type: Ukraine and Yemen. Years ago they were referred to as the Ukraine and the Yemen.
Why the change? It’s because the definite article is normally used when designating a territory or an area rather than a country. That’s why we can still say the Yukon, the Yucatan, and the Hague. Places like Sudan, Ukraine, and Yemen consider themselves as full-fledged countries--which they are--so they don’t want the definite article attached to their names any longer. In fact, the only time to use the definite article in the name of a country correctly is when the name includes a common noun: the United States, the United Kingdom, the Dominican Republic.
posted by rokusan at 6:10 PM on January 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
Nowadays the name of the country is Sudan, not the Sudan. This goes along with two other well-known changes of this type: Ukraine and Yemen. Years ago they were referred to as the Ukraine and the Yemen.
Why the change? It’s because the definite article is normally used when designating a territory or an area rather than a country. That’s why we can still say the Yukon, the Yucatan, and the Hague. Places like Sudan, Ukraine, and Yemen consider themselves as full-fledged countries--which they are--so they don’t want the definite article attached to their names any longer. In fact, the only time to use the definite article in the name of a country correctly is when the name includes a common noun: the United States, the United Kingdom, the Dominican Republic.
posted by rokusan at 6:10 PM on January 28, 2009 [2 favorites]
(Err that was 2007, not 1997. So it's pretty current.)
posted by rokusan at 6:10 PM on January 28, 2009
posted by rokusan at 6:10 PM on January 28, 2009
Also, in Arabic the name of the country is Al-Sudan (or As-Sudan) which can possibly be translated as the Sudan.
posted by proj at 6:10 PM on January 28, 2009
posted by proj at 6:10 PM on January 28, 2009
Two relevant posts on the phenomenon by Daniel Davies of Crooked Timber: 1, 2. Short version: colonial attitudes, maybe.
posted by Chrysostom at 6:12 PM on January 28, 2009
posted by Chrysostom at 6:12 PM on January 28, 2009
Also, in Arabic the name of the country is Al-Sudan (or As-Sudan) which can possibly be translated as the Sudan.
Yeah, this is essentially how my Arabic teacher explained it to us - in truth, there's a lot of countries in the Middle East and North Africa that have articles as part of the name. Saudi Arabia is As-Saudia, Iraq is Al-Iraq, Jordan is Al-'Urdunn. On the other side, Egypt is actually called Misr, and Lebanon is Lubnan.
posted by god hates math at 7:10 PM on January 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
Yeah, this is essentially how my Arabic teacher explained it to us - in truth, there's a lot of countries in the Middle East and North Africa that have articles as part of the name. Saudi Arabia is As-Saudia, Iraq is Al-Iraq, Jordan is Al-'Urdunn. On the other side, Egypt is actually called Misr, and Lebanon is Lubnan.
posted by god hates math at 7:10 PM on January 28, 2009 [1 favorite]
There are a few other countries that get the "the", too. Ukraine used to be referred to as "The Ukraine" a lot more often, and the Netherlands and the Congo and the United States. Here's a brief mention of Ukraine's preference for dropping "the" which I'm sure could be backed up with more rigorous googling.
I also seem to remember that Ukraine is/was working on getting Russian speakers to switch from using the preposition "na" to "v" when talking about going to the country, which is roughly equivalent to going from using "the" to going without. "V" is used for a lot of nouns, "university" is one such (as in "I'm going to university/college"), but "na" gets used for others, such as "park" (as in "I'm going to the park"). Not a perfect analog to "the" in translation all of the time, but worked well enough for me while learning Russian. In Russia, though, it was still "Na Ukraine" in 2004, whereas most English media have dropped the "the."
posted by msbrauer at 7:29 PM on January 28, 2009
I also seem to remember that Ukraine is/was working on getting Russian speakers to switch from using the preposition "na" to "v" when talking about going to the country, which is roughly equivalent to going from using "the" to going without. "V" is used for a lot of nouns, "university" is one such (as in "I'm going to university/college"), but "na" gets used for others, such as "park" (as in "I'm going to the park"). Not a perfect analog to "the" in translation all of the time, but worked well enough for me while learning Russian. In Russia, though, it was still "Na Ukraine" in 2004, whereas most English media have dropped the "the."
posted by msbrauer at 7:29 PM on January 28, 2009
Response by poster: Thanks, metafilter! I don't know how to do the checkmark or if any of these should be considered definitive but I'm content with your answers.
posted by christhelongtimelurker at 7:34 PM on January 28, 2009
posted by christhelongtimelurker at 7:34 PM on January 28, 2009
The deal with Ukraine - I assume - is that in most Slavic languages the word (or some semblance thereof) means "border" or "frontier" or "borderland" or something like that . . . it has the connotation of "edge." So, it'd make sense to call it "THE borderland" until it just becomes known as "Borderland," if that makes sense. (In Yugoslavia, there was also a region called "Krajina," which was sort of the extremity of Croatia, and was battled over between Croatia and Serbia after Yugoslavia split apart.)
You can see how "THE Netherlands" makes a similar kind of sense, and the Congo similarly refers both to a region and a country.
The etymology I found for Sudan speculates that the name originally had something to do with swampland. Hence, it was a region with a particularly topography. The "country of the blacks" purportedly stems from an Arabic misunderstanding of the "original" name which happened to make a kind of sense, as Sudan contains the land where the population shifts from North African Arab to sub-Saharan "black." Wikipedia also mentions the similar, more complex etymological history.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 8:37 PM on January 28, 2009
You can see how "THE Netherlands" makes a similar kind of sense, and the Congo similarly refers both to a region and a country.
The etymology I found for Sudan speculates that the name originally had something to do with swampland. Hence, it was a region with a particularly topography. The "country of the blacks" purportedly stems from an Arabic misunderstanding of the "original" name which happened to make a kind of sense, as Sudan contains the land where the population shifts from North African Arab to sub-Saharan "black." Wikipedia also mentions the similar, more complex etymological history.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 8:37 PM on January 28, 2009
More here, including The Lebanon, The Congo, The Bronx etc
posted by CunningLinguist at 6:14 PM on January 31, 2009
posted by CunningLinguist at 6:14 PM on January 31, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by Dee Xtrovert at 5:24 PM on January 28, 2009