How do I keep smokey mits off my baby?
January 23, 2009 3:18 PM Subscribe
I have a newly born baby and need to stop smokers asking to hold the baby(without taking pre-cautions) without causing offense. How can I do this without being rude or hurting my very loving friends who don't know anything about Sudden Infant Death Syndrome?
I've been invited to a party where I'll be introducing our third and last baby to many of our friends who haven't met the baby yet. Our first child was a S.I.D.S. baby who fortunately had his first episode in hospital so came home on a S.I.D.S. monitor and heart stimulant medication- which has made us very anxious about our subsequent children.
Our friends may or may not remember about this so it's probably going to be a new conversation for at least a few of them. No-one will be smoking near the baby but at least two of the women are very motherly and very heavy smokers. One of them, "Belinda", had resumed smoking when our middle child was an infant (I didn't know) and held our middle child even though she had received the email from my husband telling everyone about the birth and that smokers should change their clothes before holding the baby. Belinda's a very dear friend and has terminal cancer, I love her like a sister so it wasn't my place to chastise her, but I was furious and distressed back then and didn't say anything because she didn't tell me until some time later even though I smelled it on her clothes. I thought it was just because her car had residual smell from when she was previously a smoker.
So I know the risk is small, but considering our oldest child, this is not something I'm prepared to negotiate on. I want to ask the smokers to wash their hands and don some kind of over-cloth before holding our baby. I have no vocabulary for doing this gently, lovingly and without sounding like a neurotic b!tch.
Another complicating factor is that "Belinda" has two small grandchildren and her own daughter did not restrict her holding her babies or ask her to use a cloth. She may have asked "Belinda" to wash her hands, I'm not sure.
I did requisition a hospital gown which I could take to the party but I figure this would draw enormous amounts of attention to them and alienate them or me or both and cause offense. I don't want to upset anyone but I don't want to expose my baby to the toxins in their clothes and on their hands. Nor do I want to suggest that they would willfully endanger any baby which I worry I am tacitly doing by drawing attention to this.
My husband will not be there so it's not like I can say to him "Hold the baby and don't let go". I'll have our two year old also, so it's going to be impossible to not hand the baby over. And not going is also not an option as I have to face them some time, they're our dear friends and it's a friends birthday. And I do want them to hold our baby.
So help me Hive Mind. I'm not an American and not in America if this makes a difference. I'm also not very good at being up-front in this kind of situation. I usually am about other things, just not this kind of thing.
I've been invited to a party where I'll be introducing our third and last baby to many of our friends who haven't met the baby yet. Our first child was a S.I.D.S. baby who fortunately had his first episode in hospital so came home on a S.I.D.S. monitor and heart stimulant medication- which has made us very anxious about our subsequent children.
Our friends may or may not remember about this so it's probably going to be a new conversation for at least a few of them. No-one will be smoking near the baby but at least two of the women are very motherly and very heavy smokers. One of them, "Belinda", had resumed smoking when our middle child was an infant (I didn't know) and held our middle child even though she had received the email from my husband telling everyone about the birth and that smokers should change their clothes before holding the baby. Belinda's a very dear friend and has terminal cancer, I love her like a sister so it wasn't my place to chastise her, but I was furious and distressed back then and didn't say anything because she didn't tell me until some time later even though I smelled it on her clothes. I thought it was just because her car had residual smell from when she was previously a smoker.
So I know the risk is small, but considering our oldest child, this is not something I'm prepared to negotiate on. I want to ask the smokers to wash their hands and don some kind of over-cloth before holding our baby. I have no vocabulary for doing this gently, lovingly and without sounding like a neurotic b!tch.
Another complicating factor is that "Belinda" has two small grandchildren and her own daughter did not restrict her holding her babies or ask her to use a cloth. She may have asked "Belinda" to wash her hands, I'm not sure.
I did requisition a hospital gown which I could take to the party but I figure this would draw enormous amounts of attention to them and alienate them or me or both and cause offense. I don't want to upset anyone but I don't want to expose my baby to the toxins in their clothes and on their hands. Nor do I want to suggest that they would willfully endanger any baby which I worry I am tacitly doing by drawing attention to this.
My husband will not be there so it's not like I can say to him "Hold the baby and don't let go". I'll have our two year old also, so it's going to be impossible to not hand the baby over. And not going is also not an option as I have to face them some time, they're our dear friends and it's a friends birthday. And I do want them to hold our baby.
So help me Hive Mind. I'm not an American and not in America if this makes a difference. I'm also not very good at being up-front in this kind of situation. I usually am about other things, just not this kind of thing.
I think you need to be self-deprecating about it to begin with. Something along the lines of "Oh I'm sorry and I know that I'm being hyper vigilant to ask you this but would you mind not holding the baby just now? Unfortunately, we have to be extra special careful because of what happened to Baby 1 and so SIDS is very much on my mind. Current research recommends that babies not be held by heavy smokers even when they're not smoking becasue of the smoke in their clothes. yes, I know I'm being overly concerned but I'd really feel better if you indulge me."
I know it's hard but you're doing the right thing and I think it's going to have to be a little uncomfortable for you on behalf of your baby's health.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 3:36 PM on January 23, 2009 [5 favorites]
I know it's hard but you're doing the right thing and I think it's going to have to be a little uncomfortable for you on behalf of your baby's health.
posted by otherwordlyglow at 3:36 PM on January 23, 2009 [5 favorites]
Hmm. I presume this is a party being thrown for the purpose of showing off the baby?
If it isn't -- simply don't go. Spread the word that you've gotten advice from your doctor that it's too soon given the SIDS risk and all, and so you're going to wait until your new baby is older before doing the rounds.
If it is -- and if you don't believe turning down the party is an option -- you should have a direct conversation with the person throwing the party, asking them to communicate outward that on your doctor's advice, it's imperative that smokers abstain and prepare as per your instructions. Then, have a line prepared for the truly rude who will not respect this, such as "I love you, you know I do -- but I have to put my child's health at the top of my priority list, and that means I have to risk offending you by asking you to [do what your hostess has already asked] first. I'm sorry."
If someone chooses to get offended by this, after having been warned by the hostess and choosing to ignore the warning, I personally think it's okay that you offended them. To illustrate using an extreme, what if you were at a party while pregnant and couldn't drink -- but someone at the party offered you a drink anyway. Would you drink just to avoid offending them? Probably not, and if they pushed you to drink even after you declined and explained why, then you'd realize you were dealing with someone who didn't truly respect you or care about the health of your child.
Good luck; hopefully with sufficient forewarning from the hostess, this will turn into a non-issue. But seriously do consider not going if it's an option, and be sure to talk to your doctor -- your doctor may be in a position to reassure you that you're being paranoid, or may be in a position to give you more official-sounding details to reinforce your case.
posted by davejay at 3:36 PM on January 23, 2009 [3 favorites]
If it isn't -- simply don't go. Spread the word that you've gotten advice from your doctor that it's too soon given the SIDS risk and all, and so you're going to wait until your new baby is older before doing the rounds.
If it is -- and if you don't believe turning down the party is an option -- you should have a direct conversation with the person throwing the party, asking them to communicate outward that on your doctor's advice, it's imperative that smokers abstain and prepare as per your instructions. Then, have a line prepared for the truly rude who will not respect this, such as "I love you, you know I do -- but I have to put my child's health at the top of my priority list, and that means I have to risk offending you by asking you to [do what your hostess has already asked] first. I'm sorry."
If someone chooses to get offended by this, after having been warned by the hostess and choosing to ignore the warning, I personally think it's okay that you offended them. To illustrate using an extreme, what if you were at a party while pregnant and couldn't drink -- but someone at the party offered you a drink anyway. Would you drink just to avoid offending them? Probably not, and if they pushed you to drink even after you declined and explained why, then you'd realize you were dealing with someone who didn't truly respect you or care about the health of your child.
Good luck; hopefully with sufficient forewarning from the hostess, this will turn into a non-issue. But seriously do consider not going if it's an option, and be sure to talk to your doctor -- your doctor may be in a position to reassure you that you're being paranoid, or may be in a position to give you more official-sounding details to reinforce your case.
posted by davejay at 3:36 PM on January 23, 2009 [3 favorites]
I'm not sure this is the answer you're looking for, but isn't it the smoke that is thought to be a risk? Its not the residual smell, is it?
The anti-smoking people have decided that the smell is actually "third-hand smoke" and that it has health effects.
I, personally, think this is ludicrous. But, that's beside the point.
posted by Netzapper at 3:37 PM on January 23, 2009 [15 favorites]
The anti-smoking people have decided that the smell is actually "third-hand smoke" and that it has health effects.
I, personally, think this is ludicrous. But, that's beside the point.
posted by Netzapper at 3:37 PM on January 23, 2009 [15 favorites]
I had to do some googling before I was even sure what you were talking about. According to multiple articles discuss a study by McMaster University, there's an increased risk of SIDS if the mother smokes or is exposed to second-hand smoke during her pregnancy. I didn't see anything specific about babies already born and third-hand smoke, but I can understand you wouldn't want anyone who was a big smoker to hold your child.
That being said, you absolutely positively cannot single them out without making an ugly scene. Rather, you should simply ask anyone who wants to hold the baby at the party to wash their hands and don an over-cloth if you feel that's necessary.
Also, not going is actually an option - you have a third child, and you can always host or attend a later function when you feel more comfortable about handing your child to other people.
posted by canine epigram at 3:38 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
That being said, you absolutely positively cannot single them out without making an ugly scene. Rather, you should simply ask anyone who wants to hold the baby at the party to wash their hands and don an over-cloth if you feel that's necessary.
Also, not going is actually an option - you have a third child, and you can always host or attend a later function when you feel more comfortable about handing your child to other people.
posted by canine epigram at 3:38 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
There have been studies on "third-hand smoke" - a term they apply to smoke residue in clothing, furniture, etc.
HOWEVER, all of the research out there is on prolonged exposure - as in, babies (or, rats in some cases) who live in an environment that always has third-hand smoke..
Given the limited exposure of a few minutes to a few hours (as opposed to the baby's entire life thus far), it would be very difficult to prove any statistically significant danger whatsoever.
If it still bothers you, don't let them hold your baby. Regardless of whether they wash their hands or change their clothes, there will still be third-hand smoke residue on their hair, behind their ears.. you'll never get it all.
IANAD
posted by mbatch at 3:40 PM on January 23, 2009
HOWEVER, all of the research out there is on prolonged exposure - as in, babies (or, rats in some cases) who live in an environment that always has third-hand smoke..
Given the limited exposure of a few minutes to a few hours (as opposed to the baby's entire life thus far), it would be very difficult to prove any statistically significant danger whatsoever.
If it still bothers you, don't let them hold your baby. Regardless of whether they wash their hands or change their clothes, there will still be third-hand smoke residue on their hair, behind their ears.. you'll never get it all.
IANAD
posted by mbatch at 3:40 PM on January 23, 2009
One way to make sure specific people don't feel targeted would be to ask everyone to follow the same precautions. Instead of citing cigarette smoke you could just use the blanket term "toxins."
posted by tinatiga at 3:48 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by tinatiga at 3:48 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
I understand SIDS to mean sudden infant death syndrome, which is a diagnosis for infants who die before the age of one without any other explanation. So I must say that I am confused that you say you have a child who is currently living who has SIDS. I see that you're not American, so if the acronym SIDS means something different in your language or culture, I apologise -
As long as your mom/aunt/cousin/friend isn't actually smoking a cigarette while holding your child, there is no risk whatsoever to your child's health. It will not hurt your child to be around the aroma of smoke left behind after a cigarette is extinguished. It might, however, hurt your child to be kept away from his or her aunties and uncles aand cousins and grandparents. Take a deep breath, calm down, and if your family and friends smell like smoke, tell them to take off their jackets and wash their hands because you don't want your precious little one to smell like smoke. They should be fine with that.
posted by cilantro at 3:51 PM on January 23, 2009 [24 favorites]
As long as your mom/aunt/cousin/friend isn't actually smoking a cigarette while holding your child, there is no risk whatsoever to your child's health. It will not hurt your child to be around the aroma of smoke left behind after a cigarette is extinguished. It might, however, hurt your child to be kept away from his or her aunties and uncles aand cousins and grandparents. Take a deep breath, calm down, and if your family and friends smell like smoke, tell them to take off their jackets and wash their hands because you don't want your precious little one to smell like smoke. They should be fine with that.
posted by cilantro at 3:51 PM on January 23, 2009 [24 favorites]
What tinatiga said. Ask everyone to wash their hands and put on a lovely smock, provided by you. Talk about cold germs or something - people might think you're a little odd, but you're unlikely to offend anyone.
posted by rtha at 3:51 PM on January 23, 2009
posted by rtha at 3:51 PM on January 23, 2009
I agree with asking the host/hostess to email a brief polite note to everyone.
I have been a smoker and know several (and have known many more). No one I can think of would be really too terribly offended in 2009 if we weren't forewarned but were told on the spot "I'm sorry, I'd like to but I've been given strongly worded advice based on my family history that infant#3 shouldn't be in direct contact with a heavy smoker." And any offense taken would evaporate if, 5 minutes later, someone pulled us aside and quietly explained the family history briefly.
I am not in America either. The smokers and I may complain in very vulgar language about public smoking bans but do not take offense at specific people and their specific smoking related requests like this unless they are truly outlandish (ie that any party they are invited to must be strictly non-smoking and they will be greatly offended if it is not declared a non-smoking party when they ask, or that smoking should be banned from the smoggy city streets because they don't like walking past people taking a smoke-break from work).
posted by K.P. at 3:55 PM on January 23, 2009
I have been a smoker and know several (and have known many more). No one I can think of would be really too terribly offended in 2009 if we weren't forewarned but were told on the spot "I'm sorry, I'd like to but I've been given strongly worded advice based on my family history that infant#3 shouldn't be in direct contact with a heavy smoker." And any offense taken would evaporate if, 5 minutes later, someone pulled us aside and quietly explained the family history briefly.
I am not in America either. The smokers and I may complain in very vulgar language about public smoking bans but do not take offense at specific people and their specific smoking related requests like this unless they are truly outlandish (ie that any party they are invited to must be strictly non-smoking and they will be greatly offended if it is not declared a non-smoking party when they ask, or that smoking should be banned from the smoggy city streets because they don't like walking past people taking a smoke-break from work).
posted by K.P. at 3:55 PM on January 23, 2009
One way to make sure specific people don't feel targeted would be to ask everyone to follow the same precautions. Instead of citing cigarette smoke you could just use the blanket term "toxins."
And then you'll be pegged a loony and a hypocrite b/c you exposed the baby to AIR on the way to the party, some of which contained TOXINS. What would that even mean to someone? Toxins where? What are they? Are we all toxic and can never touch babies??
My advice is to frame it not in terms of a fear of SIDS brought on by a smell, but in terms if the smell itself. Explain that you just don't want your baby smelling like an ashtray, so either don't hold her or wash up and wear a smock or something.
posted by tristeza at 3:55 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
And then you'll be pegged a loony and a hypocrite b/c you exposed the baby to AIR on the way to the party, some of which contained TOXINS. What would that even mean to someone? Toxins where? What are they? Are we all toxic and can never touch babies??
My advice is to frame it not in terms of a fear of SIDS brought on by a smell, but in terms if the smell itself. Explain that you just don't want your baby smelling like an ashtray, so either don't hold her or wash up and wear a smock or something.
posted by tristeza at 3:55 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
That said, I don't know any older motherly women who are heavy smokers.
posted by K.P. at 3:59 PM on January 23, 2009
posted by K.P. at 3:59 PM on January 23, 2009
Also, on the off-chance that this advice wasn't given to you by your doctor, please do ask them their opinion on this, it might put your mind at ease. I'm sorry you're so worried.
posted by tristeza at 4:00 PM on January 23, 2009
posted by tristeza at 4:00 PM on January 23, 2009
What if you wrapped the baby in a blanket, and changed it after everyone has held your newborn? Make everyone wash their hands before holding the baby, don't just single out the smokers. Bring a waterless hand sanitizer (like Purell), and just tell people that you're being extra cautious because the baby is so young.
posted by hooray at 4:01 PM on January 23, 2009
posted by hooray at 4:01 PM on January 23, 2009
Frankly, I wouldn't go, or if you do go, lie a little -- say your newborn is a little susceptible to getting sick right now and so look but don't touch. You can, in fact, make it possible to avoid handing the baby over; just don't do it, and hope that everyone is understanding about your two year old.
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 4:01 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by Clyde Mnestra at 4:01 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think you should skip the party, or leave the kids at home. You seem to be pretty worked up about this and it's not worth enduring such stress. Your friends can come over your house and meet the new baby on your terms. And honestly, I don't think there's any way you can ask your friends to don a hospital gown without coming off as a tad neurotic.
posted by gnutron at 4:15 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by gnutron at 4:15 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
Third-hand smoke itself is on seriously shaky ground and relies on surfaces and enclosed areas where smokers constantly smoke in for years. Someone's clothing from smoking earlier? That's a scenario pretty far removed from the few studies about third-hard smoke. You'd probably get 10x more toxins taking him anywhere near a BBQ or a gas station.
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:17 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by damn dirty ape at 4:17 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
I have kids and I'd handle it a bit differently. Tell Belinda that you have something serious that you have to talk to her about. Then give her the whole story as honestly as you can. At the party, ask people about their smoking before they hold the baby. A standard question if someone wants to hold the baby: "Did you smoke today?". I think this is covered by the best child-rearing advice I got before my kids were born. It was from my boss at the time. When it comes to things that you need to do for your kids:
"Most people will understand. And if they don't, fuck 'em."
posted by originalname37 at 4:28 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
"Most people will understand. And if they don't, fuck 'em."
posted by originalname37 at 4:28 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Hi, This is hard to understand; you're not only anonymous, but from an unknown and different culture apparently. Nevertheless, I will share with you my honest intuition.
First of all, setting aside the baby for a moment, you seem to have boundary issues. In other words, you allow people to do things that make you feel uncomfortable. You apparently don't feel comfortable yet being a control freak, which is one of the options for people (like me also) who share this type of boundary issue tendency. This could be related to your culture or your family or your history or your karma, or possibly I've misinterpreted.
As far as the baby in particular, you apparently have a lot of trust in the medical profession and want to be able to have some security that if you follow some very specific set of instructions that everything will be ok. On this particular note, I cannot relate at all because I distrust medical professionals about 60 percent of the time. But it's your comfort level that is important in this case, so it's good that you're getting clear on your analysis.
Now on to the party, it sounds like everyone here has given good suggestions to consider and think about what works for you. My control-freak response to situations like this is to be proactive, ie never allow anyone to cross any boundary that I feel I might regret later. This isn't endearing to many others, but that's a sacrifice I have to make to avoid the drama that would happen otherwise. So, if I were going to a situation like that, I would have someone who I trusted (friend or paid) who would help me with the children and not let anyone else even stand near either child unless I was 200 percent certain that the individual lived up to all my high standards for safety of my child.
I am very thankful that in my own life I've grown to not obsess about what others think. They can claim to be hurt or offended. I don't care. If I sense I don't want a boundary crossed, I will Not allow anyone to go there. I don't know whether that is right for you also, or not.
posted by peter_meta_kbd at 4:50 PM on January 23, 2009
First of all, setting aside the baby for a moment, you seem to have boundary issues. In other words, you allow people to do things that make you feel uncomfortable. You apparently don't feel comfortable yet being a control freak, which is one of the options for people (like me also) who share this type of boundary issue tendency. This could be related to your culture or your family or your history or your karma, or possibly I've misinterpreted.
As far as the baby in particular, you apparently have a lot of trust in the medical profession and want to be able to have some security that if you follow some very specific set of instructions that everything will be ok. On this particular note, I cannot relate at all because I distrust medical professionals about 60 percent of the time. But it's your comfort level that is important in this case, so it's good that you're getting clear on your analysis.
Now on to the party, it sounds like everyone here has given good suggestions to consider and think about what works for you. My control-freak response to situations like this is to be proactive, ie never allow anyone to cross any boundary that I feel I might regret later. This isn't endearing to many others, but that's a sacrifice I have to make to avoid the drama that would happen otherwise. So, if I were going to a situation like that, I would have someone who I trusted (friend or paid) who would help me with the children and not let anyone else even stand near either child unless I was 200 percent certain that the individual lived up to all my high standards for safety of my child.
I am very thankful that in my own life I've grown to not obsess about what others think. They can claim to be hurt or offended. I don't care. If I sense I don't want a boundary crossed, I will Not allow anyone to go there. I don't know whether that is right for you also, or not.
posted by peter_meta_kbd at 4:50 PM on January 23, 2009
I am very sorry for your previous problems, but I seriously believe you are overreacting. Letting a baby be held for short periods of time by a person who smokes (and I am assuming is not sucking a death stick at the same time as holding your child) is fine. Ambient dust from all sorts of things is likely to be just as dangerous to the child. You might as well have a small gas mask made for your baby.
posted by jellywerker at 4:56 PM on January 23, 2009 [4 favorites]
posted by jellywerker at 4:56 PM on January 23, 2009 [4 favorites]
Lay off, all ye mefites who don't think the smoking is a big deal and/or warrants concern. That's none of our business. Mom says she doesn't want smokers holding her newborn baby, then that's what mom should get. End of story.
I think a good way to handle it is with a preface that this is YOUR issue, not theirs. They haven't done anything wrong and you are acknowledging that right up front.
"You'll have to forgive me, but it makes me very anxious to hand the baby over right now. Could we sit together and visit instead? I'd love to have you meet her."
posted by agentwills at 4:59 PM on January 23, 2009 [6 favorites]
I think a good way to handle it is with a preface that this is YOUR issue, not theirs. They haven't done anything wrong and you are acknowledging that right up front.
"You'll have to forgive me, but it makes me very anxious to hand the baby over right now. Could we sit together and visit instead? I'd love to have you meet her."
posted by agentwills at 4:59 PM on January 23, 2009 [6 favorites]
I want to ask the smokers to wash their hands and don some kind of over-cloth before holding our baby. I have no vocabulary for doing this gently, lovingly and without sounding like a neurotic b!tch.
I don't think it's possible for you to ask this without sounding neurotic. Plus I'm guessing that even if someone did wash their hands and wear a hospital gown (?!?) before holding your baby, you'd still worry that they had smoke in their hair or on their breath.
Why not just skip the party? It doesn't sound like you're going to have any fun.
If the point of the party is for people to meet the baby, reschedule. The risk of SIDS goes way down after four months. Just put the party off until then, when you'll be more relaxed.
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:07 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
I don't think it's possible for you to ask this without sounding neurotic. Plus I'm guessing that even if someone did wash their hands and wear a hospital gown (?!?) before holding your baby, you'd still worry that they had smoke in their hair or on their breath.
Why not just skip the party? It doesn't sound like you're going to have any fun.
If the point of the party is for people to meet the baby, reschedule. The risk of SIDS goes way down after four months. Just put the party off until then, when you'll be more relaxed.
posted by The corpse in the library at 5:07 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
Belinda's a very dear friend and has terminal cancer
1. If Belinda's a dear friend, she should be familiar with your background. Tell her that you're afraid of third-hand smoke exposure. Along with many of the other mefites, I'm skeptical about this, but she knows the background with your first child, and she knows you. She should understand.
2. But, barring being able to have an honest conversation with her, I'd let her hold your baby. IANYD. However, this woman has terminal cancer. The joy that a dying person (who cares about you) might get from holding your baby is likely greater than the risk to your child.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:18 PM on January 23, 2009 [5 favorites]
1. If Belinda's a dear friend, she should be familiar with your background. Tell her that you're afraid of third-hand smoke exposure. Along with many of the other mefites, I'm skeptical about this, but she knows the background with your first child, and she knows you. She should understand.
2. But, barring being able to have an honest conversation with her, I'd let her hold your baby. IANYD. However, this woman has terminal cancer. The joy that a dying person (who cares about you) might get from holding your baby is likely greater than the risk to your child.
posted by PhoBWanKenobi at 5:18 PM on January 23, 2009 [5 favorites]
You could also just forward people a copy of this post. Perhaps then they wouldn't want to go near your baby. I don't smoke, but if I were your friend, I wouldn't go near your baby, for fear of triggering some sort of panic.
posted by yellowcandy at 5:28 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by yellowcandy at 5:28 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
I've had new parents ask me to wash my hands before holding their baby, and I didn't feel like it was a judgment of my hygiene or health because it was just what they asked everyone to do. If they had said something that made it clear that they were singling me out, I'd probably have been offended.
I think you could phrase it like "For now, while the baby's so small, we're asking anyone who wants to hold him to wash their hands and wear this smock." Stay consistent--smokers, nonsmokers, everyone. If someone brushes it off saying the baby will be fine without the hand washing and whatnot, you can say, "I'm just not comfortable with that, you'll have to humor me because s/he's my kid" and they'll just have to respect your wishes if they want to hold the baby. And who doesn't want to hold the baby? I'd wash my hands, wear a smock, and do a little jig if it meant I got to hold a baby.
posted by Meg_Murry at 5:32 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
I think you could phrase it like "For now, while the baby's so small, we're asking anyone who wants to hold him to wash their hands and wear this smock." Stay consistent--smokers, nonsmokers, everyone. If someone brushes it off saying the baby will be fine without the hand washing and whatnot, you can say, "I'm just not comfortable with that, you'll have to humor me because s/he's my kid" and they'll just have to respect your wishes if they want to hold the baby. And who doesn't want to hold the baby? I'd wash my hands, wear a smock, and do a little jig if it meant I got to hold a baby.
posted by Meg_Murry at 5:32 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
I'm a smoker and I've had friends and relatives with your exact concern. I've been in casual one on one situations and social gatherings where new mothers have asked myself and other smokers to wash up and strip down a layer before holding the baby. I have never felt offended nor have I known anyone else to. As a matter of fact, I make it a point now to do the same before picking up any newborn. I've gone so far as to bring another t shirt in the summer if I wasn't dressed in layers. I think a hospital gown or smock is a bit over the top and might make you appear a tad neurotic. That being said, I don't think anyone will hold it against you and if it makes you feel more comfortable, go ahead. It's your baby. You're in charge.
posted by dchrssyr at 5:34 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
posted by dchrssyr at 5:34 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
While your concerns seem to go beyond hypervigilance, I suggest that you (blame the baby and) say that you must protect baby from "allergens" and then ask that anyone who will hold the baby wash his/her hands and wear the smock.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 5:48 PM on January 23, 2009 [5 favorites]
posted by McGuillicuddy at 5:48 PM on January 23, 2009 [5 favorites]
I think that if you have to worry about handwashing (are you really going to follow them and make sure they don't just stick their hands under running water) and smocks and gowns and everything, that you will have a horrible time, that this will not be your dear friends meeting your lovely baby, that this will be you, neurotic and upset and concerned about your child, and then concerned about upsetting your friends.
1) Don't go to the party. Explain that you're just not comfortable yet with exposing the child to a large group of people. This is true, you are not comfortable.
2) Don't allow anyone to hold the baby. Get your SO to stand near you and help explain so it's not always you. Just say, "The baby's been a little colicky/sick/uncomfortable lately, let's just sit and visit awhile." If someone pushes, ignore them. People sometimes have no freaking boundaries when it comes to other people's children. It's YOUR baby!
posted by micawber at 6:08 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
1) Don't go to the party. Explain that you're just not comfortable yet with exposing the child to a large group of people. This is true, you are not comfortable.
2) Don't allow anyone to hold the baby. Get your SO to stand near you and help explain so it's not always you. Just say, "The baby's been a little colicky/sick/uncomfortable lately, let's just sit and visit awhile." If someone pushes, ignore them. People sometimes have no freaking boundaries when it comes to other people's children. It's YOUR baby!
posted by micawber at 6:08 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Why should anyone hold the baby instead of helping you corral your two-year-old? Put the newborn in a sling -- people are highly unlikely to reach into your bosom to reach the baby. All you do is pull the sling top aside, they see the baby's sweet face, say "Awwww" and maybe touch her velvety head, and leave you alone.
I had a newborn and a 2-year-old exactly one year ago. The help you need isn't with the baby, believe me. Tell everyone that your toddler needs a lot of reassurance about what a fabulous big brother/sister it is, and this may take care of the issue without any need for confrontation.
I've never heard of 3rd-hand smoke as a serious SIDS issue, but I'd respect your space. People may not understand the SIDS thing at all. Call it "allergic reaction" or whatever, at least for now, and hopefully you'll get the space you need. Just don't get all upset if people roll their eyes.
One thing: if your friends and family are all murmuring that you might be overreacting, consider that you may be suffering from some PPD issues. Mine included fear of leaving the house for weeks. Not saying your SIDS concerns aren't valid, but if your best cohorts are all in agreement, overprotectivity may be a sign of something else. It's something to consider.
posted by mdiskin at 6:41 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
I had a newborn and a 2-year-old exactly one year ago. The help you need isn't with the baby, believe me. Tell everyone that your toddler needs a lot of reassurance about what a fabulous big brother/sister it is, and this may take care of the issue without any need for confrontation.
I've never heard of 3rd-hand smoke as a serious SIDS issue, but I'd respect your space. People may not understand the SIDS thing at all. Call it "allergic reaction" or whatever, at least for now, and hopefully you'll get the space you need. Just don't get all upset if people roll their eyes.
One thing: if your friends and family are all murmuring that you might be overreacting, consider that you may be suffering from some PPD issues. Mine included fear of leaving the house for weeks. Not saying your SIDS concerns aren't valid, but if your best cohorts are all in agreement, overprotectivity may be a sign of something else. It's something to consider.
posted by mdiskin at 6:41 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Anyone who says the concept of "3rd hand smoke" is ludicrous is an idiot and should not be commenting in this thread.
Anyway, I don't understand the connection between SIDS and third-hand smoke. If your physician has advised you there is one, then you need to let people know that your doctor has said that smokers should not pick up your kid.
It may be hard, but you might want to refrain from being in situation where people want to pick up your child. But it's the right thing to do. And it's pretty easy to hole up for three months with a newborn.
If you are simply assuming that 3rd hand smoke was in some way responsible, or could have aggravated your first child's SIDS, maybe you should relax a bit. As real as the danger of 3rd hand smoke is, that danger is worst for people who live with smokers, rather than people who encounter them.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:04 PM on January 23, 2009
Anyway, I don't understand the connection between SIDS and third-hand smoke. If your physician has advised you there is one, then you need to let people know that your doctor has said that smokers should not pick up your kid.
It may be hard, but you might want to refrain from being in situation where people want to pick up your child. But it's the right thing to do. And it's pretty easy to hole up for three months with a newborn.
If you are simply assuming that 3rd hand smoke was in some way responsible, or could have aggravated your first child's SIDS, maybe you should relax a bit. As real as the danger of 3rd hand smoke is, that danger is worst for people who live with smokers, rather than people who encounter them.
posted by KokuRyu at 7:04 PM on January 23, 2009
> Anyone who says the concept of "3rd hand smoke" is ludicrous is an idiot
Many other toxins sit side by side in the environment with the products of burning tobacco.
Perhaps your "idiots" would like to hear a bit more before drawing a conclusion.
posted by galaksit at 7:51 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
Many other toxins sit side by side in the environment with the products of burning tobacco.
Perhaps your "idiots" would like to hear a bit more before drawing a conclusion.
posted by galaksit at 7:51 PM on January 23, 2009 [2 favorites]
"I know this sounds like I'm being neurotic, but because Baby1 had life-threatening breathing problems, my doctor warned me to be hyper-vigilant with Baby2's exposure to all allergens until she's a year old. Even what you'd think would be very subtle stuff like the smell of cigarette smoke, perfumes, detergents, pet dander and so on. Would you mind washing your hands and draping this blanket over yourself before you hold her?" then... "Ohhh, she likes you! She's smiling!"
Rationale:
Explain yourself. Gently justify the unusualness of the request without backing down from the request itself. Use terms "life-threatening" and "doctor warned me" to emphasize that you're serious. Don't single out smokers: say "allergens" to include perfume, pet owners, etc, so nobody feels judged or dirty for being a smoker. Mention a time limit so nobody starts making "baby in a bubble" snark. Follow up with a compliment about the person's skill with a baby to soften any sting they may feel about being asked to wash-up. Oh, and don't wear perfume that night, so as to lend your white lies some credibility!
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:56 PM on January 23, 2009 [4 favorites]
Rationale:
Explain yourself. Gently justify the unusualness of the request without backing down from the request itself. Use terms "life-threatening" and "doctor warned me" to emphasize that you're serious. Don't single out smokers: say "allergens" to include perfume, pet owners, etc, so nobody feels judged or dirty for being a smoker. Mention a time limit so nobody starts making "baby in a bubble" snark. Follow up with a compliment about the person's skill with a baby to soften any sting they may feel about being asked to wash-up. Oh, and don't wear perfume that night, so as to lend your white lies some credibility!
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:56 PM on January 23, 2009 [4 favorites]
Also, pick a blanket with two different sides so you can remember consistently, which side is the "baby" side and which side should be against all the party guests' clothing.
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:57 PM on January 23, 2009
posted by pseudostrabismus at 7:57 PM on January 23, 2009
First of all, to the people addressing/attacking the OP's views on third-hand smoke and its effect on her baby are assholes: that is not what she asked.
Please limit comments to answers or help in finding an answer. Wisecracks don't help people find answers.
Secondly, I disagree with the suggestion that you should just give a blanket "allergens" or "toxins" excuse and make everyone follow the precautions. I worry that you'll get people who'll say "Oh but it's me, I'm like family!" and they'll give you a harder time. Or people, while you're not around, will disregard your request as neurotic and hand the baby off to a smoker.
I think that the only way to have people respect your request and your feelings is to be specific so that there can be no argument -- use some variation of "my doctor said my baby should not be held by smokers, I'm so sorry;" others have said this more eloquently. Some people might not trust the medical profession, but they probably won't push you on this, especially when it comes to your newborn.
You should ask the host/ess or someone else sympathetic to inform guests beforehand, and that way they can bring an extra shirt or whatever.
I understand that quitting smoking is not easy and that some, like your ill friend, do not need their lifestyle criticized. However, I think that almost all smokers are aware that their habit is dangerous and unhealthful to themselves and others, and wouldn't be offended or insulted by your request; the other smokers above concur.
posted by thebazilist at 9:09 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
Please limit comments to answers or help in finding an answer. Wisecracks don't help people find answers.
Secondly, I disagree with the suggestion that you should just give a blanket "allergens" or "toxins" excuse and make everyone follow the precautions. I worry that you'll get people who'll say "Oh but it's me, I'm like family!" and they'll give you a harder time. Or people, while you're not around, will disregard your request as neurotic and hand the baby off to a smoker.
I think that the only way to have people respect your request and your feelings is to be specific so that there can be no argument -- use some variation of "my doctor said my baby should not be held by smokers, I'm so sorry;" others have said this more eloquently. Some people might not trust the medical profession, but they probably won't push you on this, especially when it comes to your newborn.
You should ask the host/ess or someone else sympathetic to inform guests beforehand, and that way they can bring an extra shirt or whatever.
I understand that quitting smoking is not easy and that some, like your ill friend, do not need their lifestyle criticized. However, I think that almost all smokers are aware that their habit is dangerous and unhealthful to themselves and others, and wouldn't be offended or insulted by your request; the other smokers above concur.
posted by thebazilist at 9:09 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
Don't let anybody hold the baby.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:10 PM on January 23, 2009
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:10 PM on January 23, 2009
Please get a second opinion as to what may have been the issue with your first child, since the diagnosis you were given makes no sense.
posted by sageleaf at 9:51 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
posted by sageleaf at 9:51 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]
I like the sling idea. Wear the baby. Ask people to help with the toddler. That way, people can fuss over the baby but can't pick her up, and can help you keep the toddler from getting into too much trouble. Also, you will have your hands free for toddler issues. Everyone wins, and you don't have to explain.
If you feel uncomfortable with smokers holding your baby for any reason, that's your right as a parent. It's your baby, and your decision. If you don't feel comfortable explaining that, then either don't let anyone hold the baby, or put the baby in a sling or carrier.
posted by bedhead at 10:09 PM on January 23, 2009
If you feel uncomfortable with smokers holding your baby for any reason, that's your right as a parent. It's your baby, and your decision. If you don't feel comfortable explaining that, then either don't let anyone hold the baby, or put the baby in a sling or carrier.
posted by bedhead at 10:09 PM on January 23, 2009
I'm going to go with either a) skip the party - put it off til the kid is older or b) don't let anyone hold the baby. It's not worth the stress and hassle at this point.
If your primary concern is how to let your terminally ill friend interact with the baby safely, then you're just going to have to suck it up and tell her you're worried about residual smoke and she'll have to follow precautions. Again, I wouldn't do this in a party environment, but one-on-one it should be a reasonably simple conversation, especially if she's aware of the scare you had with your eldest. If you absolutely can't manage the conversation, then have your husband do it.
I reread your question three times and I'm still really fuzzy on the connection between SIDS and third-hand smoke, but I have certainly not done a lick of research on the subject, and it's your kid - you get to make the rules.
posted by restless_nomad at 10:37 PM on January 23, 2009
If your primary concern is how to let your terminally ill friend interact with the baby safely, then you're just going to have to suck it up and tell her you're worried about residual smoke and she'll have to follow precautions. Again, I wouldn't do this in a party environment, but one-on-one it should be a reasonably simple conversation, especially if she's aware of the scare you had with your eldest. If you absolutely can't manage the conversation, then have your husband do it.
I reread your question three times and I'm still really fuzzy on the connection between SIDS and third-hand smoke, but I have certainly not done a lick of research on the subject, and it's your kid - you get to make the rules.
posted by restless_nomad at 10:37 PM on January 23, 2009
Don't go to the party. It's your child. You are allowed to be a hyper vigilant.
posted by 26.2 at 10:48 PM on January 23, 2009
posted by 26.2 at 10:48 PM on January 23, 2009
First up, you think your kid has a significant chance of dying if you let some of these people near him or her, and you're going? Wait til you're out of the woods, the baby is older, bigger and stronger.
Second, this doesn't sound like a teetotalling crowd - if you simply must put your child's life on the line, wear a t-shirt that says "Neurotic B*tch" and make a huge (but useful) joke out of it.
If you're not down for those two options, the only thing I've got for you is to recruit a confederate. Have some smoker there hang around with the gown giving it to "the next person". People often fall right in line if something is normalized. Last straw? 2-year-old. Fat chance you'll have them near you all night, but a 2-year-old saying "no smoke!" at the smell of it could be a lead-in to an explanation about why you have to put on this lead suit and mask to hold the child, mrs. Smoker.
Bottom line as said above - it's your baby. Be consistent and firm, and if somebody balks at the idea of doing anything, just move on to talk about other things. When they re-ask, just say "sure, can you put on that gown for me?" (A well timed "no smoke!" Would be awesome right about here. Do 2-a-day practices with the toddler.)
posted by cashman at 11:55 PM on January 23, 2009
Second, this doesn't sound like a teetotalling crowd - if you simply must put your child's life on the line, wear a t-shirt that says "Neurotic B*tch" and make a huge (but useful) joke out of it.
If you're not down for those two options, the only thing I've got for you is to recruit a confederate. Have some smoker there hang around with the gown giving it to "the next person". People often fall right in line if something is normalized. Last straw? 2-year-old. Fat chance you'll have them near you all night, but a 2-year-old saying "no smoke!" at the smell of it could be a lead-in to an explanation about why you have to put on this lead suit and mask to hold the child, mrs. Smoker.
Bottom line as said above - it's your baby. Be consistent and firm, and if somebody balks at the idea of doing anything, just move on to talk about other things. When they re-ask, just say "sure, can you put on that gown for me?" (A well timed "no smoke!" Would be awesome right about here. Do 2-a-day practices with the toddler.)
posted by cashman at 11:55 PM on January 23, 2009
If you believe that third-hand smoke toxins are demonstrably a danger to your child, then what makes you confident that hand washing and gown wearing are adequate protection? If you believe what you say you believe, it's totally irresponsible to take that kid anywhere near the party. Stay home where it's safe.
posted by gum at 12:30 AM on January 24, 2009
posted by gum at 12:30 AM on January 24, 2009
Stay home. You will offend someone. My neurotic sister wouldn't let me bottle feed my own niece for fear that she would choke (I went to nursing school although I didn't graduate, and have been first aid/CPR certified every 2 years for infants, children, and adults since I was 11 years old, and the baby had no problems), but she let a distant relative with cancer feed the baby in front of me because "she felt sorry for her." That hurt, a lot.
posted by IndigoRain at 10:33 PM on January 24, 2009
posted by IndigoRain at 10:33 PM on January 24, 2009
This does not sound like a fun party. If you go, get a sitter for the older kids so you can hold the baby all the time. Say to everyone- we don't let people outside the immediate family hold the baby. This has been said to me, I thought wtf and then let it go (however, 20 years later I still remember it). People will think you're loony, inasmuch as you're not first-time parents, but will accept this. Singling out people may not actually offend them? but it will hurt their feelings and humiliate them publicly. To do this to someone you love dearly and who is dying of cancer, jeez, not worth it.
That said, you need to talk to someone about what seem to me (IANAD) to be potentially paralyzing fears regarding safety for this child. There is a limit to how much you can insulate them from the ills of the world, and a danger to doing so. Your family history is making you more susceptible to these fears and I think you need some help getting over it.
posted by nax at 6:20 AM on January 25, 2009
That said, you need to talk to someone about what seem to me (IANAD) to be potentially paralyzing fears regarding safety for this child. There is a limit to how much you can insulate them from the ills of the world, and a danger to doing so. Your family history is making you more susceptible to these fears and I think you need some help getting over it.
posted by nax at 6:20 AM on January 25, 2009
You must also avoid going outside ever, because cars give off toxic exhaust all day long and it lingers in the air. Factories belch chemicals into the air as well. And people still legally (though not for long at this rate) *gasp* smoke on the street, leaving little bits of deadly toxic third hand smoke everywhere along with all their deadly toxic germs.
OCD territory, in my opinion, but having a newborn will do that to a mom, so it's understandable.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:27 AM on January 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
OCD territory, in my opinion, but having a newborn will do that to a mom, so it's understandable.
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:27 AM on January 25, 2009 [1 favorite]
Hm, I skipped right past the part about Belinda earlier.
But, smokers are not people from nursing school who are being told can't be trusted to hold a baby. We/they are accustomed to the daily inconveniences and the occasional (unintentional and deliberate) denigration. And mothers of newborns are generally given a pass to be irrationally neurotic about one or two things.
And if we (well, at least all the smokers I personally know and just had an imaginary conversation about this with) were told "no baby for you because of reason X" then, yes, we might think you were being a little paranoid about this whole third-hand-smoke thing that may or may not exist. And being irrational, because you just took your newborn for a stroll on the smoggy street. But we'd let it slide. And if we know Belinda is dying and you're making an exception for her if she washes her hands and changes clothes, we'd let that slide too. Presumably Belinda is our friend too, and we know this would be a big deal for her.
But bringing a hospital gown for Belinda might make her feel awkwardly singled out as it's a big neon sign calling attention to the fact that she's sick. She might feel better if you brought her an overcoat, robe, maternity dress, or some other less-conspicuous barrier-clothing.
posted by K.P. at 8:02 AM on January 25, 2009
But, smokers are not people from nursing school who are being told can't be trusted to hold a baby. We/they are accustomed to the daily inconveniences and the occasional (unintentional and deliberate) denigration. And mothers of newborns are generally given a pass to be irrationally neurotic about one or two things.
And if we (well, at least all the smokers I personally know and just had an imaginary conversation about this with) were told "no baby for you because of reason X" then, yes, we might think you were being a little paranoid about this whole third-hand-smoke thing that may or may not exist. And being irrational, because you just took your newborn for a stroll on the smoggy street. But we'd let it slide. And if we know Belinda is dying and you're making an exception for her if she washes her hands and changes clothes, we'd let that slide too. Presumably Belinda is our friend too, and we know this would be a big deal for her.
But bringing a hospital gown for Belinda might make her feel awkwardly singled out as it's a big neon sign calling attention to the fact that she's sick. She might feel better if you brought her an overcoat, robe, maternity dress, or some other less-conspicuous barrier-clothing.
posted by K.P. at 8:02 AM on January 25, 2009
The D in SIDS is for death, I should know, my daughter died of it. Whatever your first child has or had is certainly awful, but SIDS it was not. I would strongly recommend that you find out more about SIDS so that you get over your fear of smokers and any other irrational fears that you're clearly harboring.
I would also recommend that you simply ask everyone, smoker or not, to wash their hands thoroughly before handling the baby, you've got far more to worry about in terms of flus/colds/other diseases being spread from a non-smoker who is sick than from a smoker making your baby stink.
... and for the record, neither my wife nor I are smokers, nor are most of our close friends, nor are any of our close family members. Our daughter came into contact with only a handful of smokers in her life, all of whom washed their hands before touching her--for other reasons. She only ever slept on her back, in a crib or in a bassinet free of any loose linens, two things you should be much more concerned about than smokers making your child smell.
She was eight months old when she died at daycare, another non-smoking environment.
posted by togdon at 11:31 AM on January 25, 2009 [4 favorites]
I would also recommend that you simply ask everyone, smoker or not, to wash their hands thoroughly before handling the baby, you've got far more to worry about in terms of flus/colds/other diseases being spread from a non-smoker who is sick than from a smoker making your baby stink.
... and for the record, neither my wife nor I are smokers, nor are most of our close friends, nor are any of our close family members. Our daughter came into contact with only a handful of smokers in her life, all of whom washed their hands before touching her--for other reasons. She only ever slept on her back, in a crib or in a bassinet free of any loose linens, two things you should be much more concerned about than smokers making your child smell.
She was eight months old when she died at daycare, another non-smoking environment.
posted by togdon at 11:31 AM on January 25, 2009 [4 favorites]
follow-up from the OP
"Thanks for your help everyone. You've given me lots of ideas. I like the idea of wearing the baby and think I might do that. And ask everyone to wash their hands.posted by jessamyn at 7:22 PM on January 25, 2009
By way of explanation:
Our eldest had an episode where he had to be resuscitated in hospital as a newborn. I'm not sure if you would call that SIDS because he was brought back to life eventually.
He underwent sleepstudies (after everything else was investigated) and they diagnosed he was a SIDS baby at risk of SIDS. He then had to go on a monitor for his breathing until he was 10 months old and take a stimulant to keep him breathing when he was in deep sleep. A few times he stopped. It was terrifying. He is still alive but was classified as a SIDS kid, though not counted as a statistic obviously. He was under the care of three neonatologists, a SIDS specialist and two paediatricians. I didn't know Belinda back then, our eldest is now a teenager.
Over here we're constantly told that any surface exposed to smoke is a hazard to babies. I guessed that that wasn't the case in North America so that's why I mentioned it. Although I am certainly neurotic, it's not just me, it's health professionals and public health advertisements.
Thank you for answering even if you think I'm insane. I think it's a combination of neuroses (mine) and culturally different health perspectives (yours).
As for the third hand smoke being a bludgeon of the anti-smokers,as far as I know it's science/research that suggests this is bad, not the anti-smokers. I would hate for anyone to dismiss this as just propoganda in their own lives. I would also hate to buy in to hysteria as much as the next person. Obviously some think I have. But it's family history and data that informs my current opinion. And a healthy dose of neuroses.
If anyone has further input I'd be happy to hear it. I really want to hand my baby over and let everyone goo and gah regardless of their smokiness but I'm thrice bitten and twice shy after our son
The "science/research" you refer to is, most likely, a study in the medical journal Pediatrics, which concluded not that lingering smoke particles are a hazard to children, but rather that the majority of people polled by telephone believe that lingering smoke particles are a hazard to children. The study was not a study of the effects of third-hand smoke on children; it was a phone poll asking people whether they believed such effects exist. The phone survey was conducted by a group working to ban tobacco and backed by a pharmaceutical company that is the leading seller of tobacco-cessation drugs.
There have been no studies that show any correlation (much less a causal link) between exposure to "third-hand smoke" and health problems in anyone, including children. The only studies done to try to show such a link used as a measure levels of particulate matter far below those accepted as evidence of exposure by reputable tobacco researchers. They also did not study at all exposure via person-to-person contact; they only studied exposure to rooms in which smoking had previously occurred. These studies had nothing to do with risk of infant death; their stated goal was to measure reading scores in young children. They also did not control for first- or second-hand tobacco exposure, other health risks, or socio-economic status, meaning that they have no way to even attempt to glean whether there were other reasons for differences in reading test scores.
In order for a child to ingest a level of carcinogen material that is considered unsafe for humans, that child would have to play every day on the floor of a room in which smoking regularly took place for 2.74 quadrillion years. That number is based on the measured level of carcinogens in such rooms and on the assumption (which is almost certainly false) that a child would ingest all of the carcinogens on that floor.
In other words, the studies that have been done on this topic were not designed to measure the risk that you're concerned about. They were so poorly designed as to be virtually useless to measure anything. They show little risk of any type of injury at all. The only proven way for a child to be in danger from third-hand smoke would be for that child to lick a filthy floor for 274 times as long as the universe has existed. And even if you believe that the results of such research show what the studies' designers intended to show, the sources are biased enough to cause doubt in their own right.
If you are relying on science to back you up, be aware that the science on this subject is spurious at best and that the advice you are receiving is not supported by any sound evidence.
posted by decathecting at 10:46 AM on January 26, 2009 [8 favorites]
There have been no studies that show any correlation (much less a causal link) between exposure to "third-hand smoke" and health problems in anyone, including children. The only studies done to try to show such a link used as a measure levels of particulate matter far below those accepted as evidence of exposure by reputable tobacco researchers. They also did not study at all exposure via person-to-person contact; they only studied exposure to rooms in which smoking had previously occurred. These studies had nothing to do with risk of infant death; their stated goal was to measure reading scores in young children. They also did not control for first- or second-hand tobacco exposure, other health risks, or socio-economic status, meaning that they have no way to even attempt to glean whether there were other reasons for differences in reading test scores.
In order for a child to ingest a level of carcinogen material that is considered unsafe for humans, that child would have to play every day on the floor of a room in which smoking regularly took place for 2.74 quadrillion years. That number is based on the measured level of carcinogens in such rooms and on the assumption (which is almost certainly false) that a child would ingest all of the carcinogens on that floor.
In other words, the studies that have been done on this topic were not designed to measure the risk that you're concerned about. They were so poorly designed as to be virtually useless to measure anything. They show little risk of any type of injury at all. The only proven way for a child to be in danger from third-hand smoke would be for that child to lick a filthy floor for 274 times as long as the universe has existed. And even if you believe that the results of such research show what the studies' designers intended to show, the sources are biased enough to cause doubt in their own right.
If you are relying on science to back you up, be aware that the science on this subject is spurious at best and that the advice you are receiving is not supported by any sound evidence.
posted by decathecting at 10:46 AM on January 26, 2009 [8 favorites]
I think the easiest thing to do would be to ask everyone who wants to play with the baby to wash their hands. My brother-in-law just had a baby, and he makes everyone do this. He doesn't offer up any explanations as to why, and no one asks, because, it's his and his wife's baby. People who can't be bothered to wash their hands, or make a big deal out if it, are probably assholes.
posted by chunking express at 11:32 AM on January 26, 2009
posted by chunking express at 11:32 AM on January 26, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
If its the smell/whatever is in their clothes, a gown and a handwashing won't help. It'd be airborne. But I'm relatively certain its the smoke that is the issue.
IANAD
posted by aleahey at 3:31 PM on January 23, 2009 [1 favorite]