Heating raw dairy products?
December 23, 2008 11:32 AM Subscribe
Does heating raw milk and cheese just totally defeat the purpose?
I love raw dairy products -- the milks and cheeses taste great, and I find them easier to digest than the pasteurized stuff. But if I make a grilled cheese with my raw cheddar, or a hot chocolate with my raw milk, am I destroying the enzymes and proteins that make it so good for me in the first place? Or would it take a more prolonged/higher heat exposure to damage the food's integrity? These products are expensive and sometimes hard to find, so I don't want to ruin the benefits of eating them just for a plate of mac and cheese.
I love raw dairy products -- the milks and cheeses taste great, and I find them easier to digest than the pasteurized stuff. But if I make a grilled cheese with my raw cheddar, or a hot chocolate with my raw milk, am I destroying the enzymes and proteins that make it so good for me in the first place? Or would it take a more prolonged/higher heat exposure to damage the food's integrity? These products are expensive and sometimes hard to find, so I don't want to ruin the benefits of eating them just for a plate of mac and cheese.
The main enzymes in raw dairy are lipase and phosphatase. Your body produces its own and doesn't need any supplemental intake.
Heating proteins partially breaks them down to their constituent amino acids. Not a big deal, since that would happen anyway as part of the digestive process.
However, the whole point of raw cheese is the authentic texture and flavour -- both of which are nuked by melting. Cease, desist, and repent immediately for such sinful violation of the Cheese Consumption
Code.
posted by randomstriker at 12:24 PM on December 23, 2008
Heating proteins partially breaks them down to their constituent amino acids. Not a big deal, since that would happen anyway as part of the digestive process.
However, the whole point of raw cheese is the authentic texture and flavour -- both of which are nuked by melting. Cease, desist, and repent immediately for such sinful violation of the Cheese Consumption
Code.
posted by randomstriker at 12:24 PM on December 23, 2008
Nowonmai has it. Your stomach is going to chop all those special little enzymes to bits before they are absorbed into your body. Fancy proteins and proteins from a slice of American cheeses get treated all the same. (Hint, your body doesn't want proteins cows make. It want's to bust them up and rebuild proteins humans make.) Unless you cook the product down to a crust of smoking carbon you'll still get your protein. So eat them the way they taste the best.
posted by Science! at 12:27 PM on December 23, 2008
posted by Science! at 12:27 PM on December 23, 2008
Well, at least with cheese, raw cheese melted still tastes better than regular cheese melted. Melting raw cheese does not recreate the pasteurization process. So if you are just aiming to eat unpasteurized dairy products, no, heating them will not really nullify your goals. If you are aiming to eat raw foods in general (nuts, vegetables, etc) then no, don't heat them.
posted by chelseagirl at 12:40 PM on December 23, 2008
posted by chelseagirl at 12:40 PM on December 23, 2008
Try it once. If you can't tell, then it doesn't matter.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 12:49 PM on December 23, 2008
posted by a robot made out of meat at 12:49 PM on December 23, 2008
Response by poster: Thank you, chelseagirl, for answering the question. I just want to eat unpasteurized dairy products. All of the input is appreciated, but I definitely wasn't asking for an opinion about the health benefits of raw dairy products -- just wanted some advice about handling them. Nobody's going to convince me that a slice of Kraft cheese product has the same nutritive value as a hunk of raw milk cheddar, simply because they both contain protein. Not even if you call yourself "Science".
posted by wetpaint at 1:30 PM on December 23, 2008
posted by wetpaint at 1:30 PM on December 23, 2008
Which enzymes and proteins in raw milk do you think provide health benefits? That is necessary information to figure out whether heating will disturb those proteins. Some proteins are more thermostable than others.
posted by grouse at 3:29 PM on December 23, 2008
posted by grouse at 3:29 PM on December 23, 2008
"Nobody's going to convince me that a slice of Kraft cheese product has the same nutritive value as a hunk of raw milk cheddar, simply because they both contain protein."
Just so it's clear, the majority of the time an enzyme is just a protein with a special shape and order to its amino acids. Once they hit the stomach and the small intestine they get cut into their amino acids just the same as proteins. Some other enzymes will also have an inorganic ion. The ion itself won't be altered by heat, unless we are talking nuclear fusion.
Applying heat to proteins changes their structure and conformation. Even low levels of heat do this, which is part of the reason humans die if their body temperature gets much over 105 F for very long.
Proteins are arranged at 4 levels. The first is the order of their amino acids, which is robust and resistant to heat. The second, third and fourth levels have to do with the shape of the protein rather than the order of amino acids and these levels of conformation are not very resistant to heat. When something is pasteurized its the last three levels of conformation that are altered resulting in the death of the organism counting them to survive.
Considering that it is only the conformation of the protein that is being altered, it would be very hard to argue that there is any nutritional difference between something that is pasteurized and something that is not. The only tangent I can think of is that the milk contains an enzyme that helps break down lactose but so do humans who can digest lactose.
posted by 517 at 6:21 PM on December 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
Just so it's clear, the majority of the time an enzyme is just a protein with a special shape and order to its amino acids. Once they hit the stomach and the small intestine they get cut into their amino acids just the same as proteins. Some other enzymes will also have an inorganic ion. The ion itself won't be altered by heat, unless we are talking nuclear fusion.
Applying heat to proteins changes their structure and conformation. Even low levels of heat do this, which is part of the reason humans die if their body temperature gets much over 105 F for very long.
Proteins are arranged at 4 levels. The first is the order of their amino acids, which is robust and resistant to heat. The second, third and fourth levels have to do with the shape of the protein rather than the order of amino acids and these levels of conformation are not very resistant to heat. When something is pasteurized its the last three levels of conformation that are altered resulting in the death of the organism counting them to survive.
Considering that it is only the conformation of the protein that is being altered, it would be very hard to argue that there is any nutritional difference between something that is pasteurized and something that is not. The only tangent I can think of is that the milk contains an enzyme that helps break down lactose but so do humans who can digest lactose.
posted by 517 at 6:21 PM on December 23, 2008 [2 favorites]
You're starting with a false premise, so the question is impossible to answer. Taste is the only reason to prefer raw milk products over pasteurized.
posted by electroboy at 7:31 AM on December 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by electroboy at 7:31 AM on December 24, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sorry if you thought it was all snark. I'm willing to say that the benefit ratios of raw unpasteurized cheese : raw past cheese and heated unpasteurized cheese: heated pasteurized cheese are the same. I was serious in suggesting that you taste them and see if it's worth it to you.
Everyone's just trying to be kind and remind you that pasteurization is recommended because it kills important pathogens (like this) and that you should look for serious proof of exactly how much nutritional benefit you expect to get from raw dairy to offset this risk. I know plenty of westerners whose diets are somehow deficient in my opinion (fiber, folate, vitamin C, omega-3 FA, a few iron) but I don't know what you're planning to make better with raw dairy, or what you think is lost in pasteurization.
Don't take this as standing up for Kraft; that might be a petroleum product for all I know. I also understand that raw dairy tastes effing great; a friend of mine's parents owned a dairy farm. However, they didn't consume raw dairy on a regular basis because they'd seen some of those cattle diseases before and didn't want to chance catching them.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 11:30 AM on December 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
Everyone's just trying to be kind and remind you that pasteurization is recommended because it kills important pathogens (like this) and that you should look for serious proof of exactly how much nutritional benefit you expect to get from raw dairy to offset this risk. I know plenty of westerners whose diets are somehow deficient in my opinion (fiber, folate, vitamin C, omega-3 FA, a few iron) but I don't know what you're planning to make better with raw dairy, or what you think is lost in pasteurization.
Don't take this as standing up for Kraft; that might be a petroleum product for all I know. I also understand that raw dairy tastes effing great; a friend of mine's parents owned a dairy farm. However, they didn't consume raw dairy on a regular basis because they'd seen some of those cattle diseases before and didn't want to chance catching them.
posted by a robot made out of meat at 11:30 AM on December 24, 2008 [2 favorites]
I was reminded of this thread when I read this story, in part about someone who got a campylobacter infection from drinking raw milk and had to go on life support for several months. She still can't even stand up or use her hands.
posted by grouse at 9:07 AM on May 11, 2009
posted by grouse at 9:07 AM on May 11, 2009
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by nowonmai at 11:46 AM on December 23, 2008