What does it take to convert a house from natural gas to electricity?
September 5, 2008 7:26 AM Subscribe
What does it take to convert a house from natural gas to electricity for the stove, dryer, hot water tank, etc.?
What does it take to convert a house from natural gas to electricity for the stove, dryer, hot water tank, etc.?
If we move a house from somewhere else to our property, we will need it to be all electricity. Is this very expensive? How long does it take? What kind of professionals does one call about it? Plumber and electrician?
If it is not possible or too expensive, then we will not bother to look at any more houses that currently have gas or propane.
We will eventually be converting to solar and I'd prefer the house run on electricity when we move in.
I am a big fan of electricity and very stubborn (my husband will vouch for this, I'm sure) and vocal about this issue. There is no need to suggest propane instead and there is no natural gas at the house's new location.
What does it take to convert a house from natural gas to electricity for the stove, dryer, hot water tank, etc.?
If we move a house from somewhere else to our property, we will need it to be all electricity. Is this very expensive? How long does it take? What kind of professionals does one call about it? Plumber and electrician?
If it is not possible or too expensive, then we will not bother to look at any more houses that currently have gas or propane.
We will eventually be converting to solar and I'd prefer the house run on electricity when we move in.
I am a big fan of electricity and very stubborn (my husband will vouch for this, I'm sure) and vocal about this issue. There is no need to suggest propane instead and there is no natural gas at the house's new location.
Best answer: You’ll need all new appliances and plugs to plug them into.
The dryer and stove both require 220volt outlets so an electrician will need to run cables to those locations and install the outlets. Depending on where they’re located, this could be easy or very difficult. If the dryer is in the basement, it’s only a matter of running the cable from the electrical panel (assuming it’s in the basement) to wherever the dryer is. If the dryer is upstairs, the cable will have to be run through the walls or an existing chase. This could get expensive. These cables are thick (60amp, I think) and unique to these appliances so he can’t just tap into an existing circuit.
You shouldn’t need a plumber as the hookups should be the same for water as for gas. The gas company will disconnect you at the old location and there should be no need to remove the gas pipes if they’re not hooked up to anything.
What does the house have for heat? That could be the deal breaker. If you’re on gas you’ll need to convert to oil or geothermal or something else. This would probably be the most expensive part of the project.
If you’re planning on going solar you should be looking into the most efficient appliances you can find. You’ll also want a water tank designed to be used for solar. You could also look into on-demand water heaters rather than tanks, though these probably don’t work under solar power as the current demand might be too high.
Moving a house is an expensive task anyway so you should discuss it with the contractor who will be moving the house. You can probably roll it all into one contract.
posted by bondcliff at 7:48 AM on September 5, 2008
The dryer and stove both require 220volt outlets so an electrician will need to run cables to those locations and install the outlets. Depending on where they’re located, this could be easy or very difficult. If the dryer is in the basement, it’s only a matter of running the cable from the electrical panel (assuming it’s in the basement) to wherever the dryer is. If the dryer is upstairs, the cable will have to be run through the walls or an existing chase. This could get expensive. These cables are thick (60amp, I think) and unique to these appliances so he can’t just tap into an existing circuit.
You shouldn’t need a plumber as the hookups should be the same for water as for gas. The gas company will disconnect you at the old location and there should be no need to remove the gas pipes if they’re not hooked up to anything.
What does the house have for heat? That could be the deal breaker. If you’re on gas you’ll need to convert to oil or geothermal or something else. This would probably be the most expensive part of the project.
If you’re planning on going solar you should be looking into the most efficient appliances you can find. You’ll also want a water tank designed to be used for solar. You could also look into on-demand water heaters rather than tanks, though these probably don’t work under solar power as the current demand might be too high.
Moving a house is an expensive task anyway so you should discuss it with the contractor who will be moving the house. You can probably roll it all into one contract.
posted by bondcliff at 7:48 AM on September 5, 2008
As tomwheeler says, you will have to replace all of those appliances. The stove, at least, will need a 240v circuit, and I believe the hot water heater and dryer will as well. That may mean upgrading the circuit box too.
Using electricity for heat is very inefficient compared to NG or LPG. If you are going solar, you'd be better off looking at ways to heat the water directly with the sun, rather than using solar panels to run an electric water heater.
posted by bricoleur at 7:51 AM on September 5, 2008
Using electricity for heat is very inefficient compared to NG or LPG. If you are going solar, you'd be better off looking at ways to heat the water directly with the sun, rather than using solar panels to run an electric water heater.
posted by bricoleur at 7:51 AM on September 5, 2008
Yes, you'd have to actually get electric appliances; that much seems obvious. You'd have to get electricity to the house, which means stringing cables on overhead poles or burying them a couple of feet underground, but you'll be doing that when you move the house, regardless of whether you change over the water heater. If everything is running of electricity then you'll need a lot of electricity, which means fatter, more expensive cables bringing the power in, and maybe a new, higher-amperage service panel inside the house, plus cables and outlets to each major appliance. Depending on where you live and the sort of heating systems that are appropriate for your climate, you may have to install an entirely new heating system. I think it's safe to say you're looking at several thousand dollars to do all of this. Also, as you plan to convert to solar, keep in mind that it will take a very substantial solar installation to power all this stuff. It will be eons before those solar panels pay for themselves, if ever.
posted by jon1270 at 7:56 AM on September 5, 2008
posted by jon1270 at 7:56 AM on September 5, 2008
If we move a house from somewhere else to our property, we will need it to be all electricity. Is this very expensive? How long does it take? What kind of professionals does one call about it? Plumber and electrician?
I just want to be sure I'm reading this correctly and that you're moving the entire house. Not that that's especially an oddity or anything, I just want to be sure.
The conversion should actually be pretty simple--you'd obviously need new appliances that run on electricity instead of gas, but aside from that it's just making sure the right wiring is in the walls. If you're moving the entire house, this might be easier to accomplish than if you were trying to retrofit a house that was staying put; although it would probably be just as easy if the house had a crawlspace or basement instead of a slab foundation.
Basically, since you're moving the entire house, you can just jettison the gas piping that's in the walls or cap all the pipelines--you're not going to need them any more. After that, you just need to make sure you'll have the right kind of electrical supply for the appliances you'll be installing. Stoves and other heavy-duty appliances don't usually run off the standard two-prong outlets and need a higher voltage. Electric stoves are common enough that this won't be a major issue. For the water heater, you might consider going with tankless water heaters (AKA flash heaters, instahots, and some other names) rather than a water heater with a storage tank - they're typically more efficient for that sort of thing, and they'll only turn on when you need them instead of running all the time. I might advise against going with electric heating unless you plan on going with a heat pump.
Mostly, you'll need the services of an electrician, with a plumber if you do end up needing to cap off the existing gas lines. The electrician will need to run wiring in the walls for all the new appliances you're adding, and will put outlets in the correct locations. If you wanted to be really quick and dirty about it, I guess you could just run conduit all over the inside of the house, but otherwise you'll have some patch and repair work on the drywall or plaster. At this point you're up to at least three different trades (plumbing, electrical, possibly drywall/plaster and mechanical), and it'd probably be easier to just call a general contractor instead of trying to deal with each trade by yourself individually. The contractor will (hopefully) make sure the trades are correctly coordinated and aren't bumping into each other, making sure everything is done efficiently, as well as giving you one bid for the entire job and ensuring that everything that needs to be done is done - there's probably a whole host of factors involved in this that I'm leaving out.
I have no idea about how much it would cost, but if your other option is just looking for a house that's already completely electric, you're going to have some slim pickings. Although the popularity of tankless water heaters is increasing, most places will still have gas so there's a good chance you'll have to do at least some of this work no matter what.
posted by LionIndex at 8:07 AM on September 5, 2008
I just want to be sure I'm reading this correctly and that you're moving the entire house. Not that that's especially an oddity or anything, I just want to be sure.
The conversion should actually be pretty simple--you'd obviously need new appliances that run on electricity instead of gas, but aside from that it's just making sure the right wiring is in the walls. If you're moving the entire house, this might be easier to accomplish than if you were trying to retrofit a house that was staying put; although it would probably be just as easy if the house had a crawlspace or basement instead of a slab foundation.
Basically, since you're moving the entire house, you can just jettison the gas piping that's in the walls or cap all the pipelines--you're not going to need them any more. After that, you just need to make sure you'll have the right kind of electrical supply for the appliances you'll be installing. Stoves and other heavy-duty appliances don't usually run off the standard two-prong outlets and need a higher voltage. Electric stoves are common enough that this won't be a major issue. For the water heater, you might consider going with tankless water heaters (AKA flash heaters, instahots, and some other names) rather than a water heater with a storage tank - they're typically more efficient for that sort of thing, and they'll only turn on when you need them instead of running all the time. I might advise against going with electric heating unless you plan on going with a heat pump.
Mostly, you'll need the services of an electrician, with a plumber if you do end up needing to cap off the existing gas lines. The electrician will need to run wiring in the walls for all the new appliances you're adding, and will put outlets in the correct locations. If you wanted to be really quick and dirty about it, I guess you could just run conduit all over the inside of the house, but otherwise you'll have some patch and repair work on the drywall or plaster. At this point you're up to at least three different trades (plumbing, electrical, possibly drywall/plaster and mechanical), and it'd probably be easier to just call a general contractor instead of trying to deal with each trade by yourself individually. The contractor will (hopefully) make sure the trades are correctly coordinated and aren't bumping into each other, making sure everything is done efficiently, as well as giving you one bid for the entire job and ensuring that everything that needs to be done is done - there's probably a whole host of factors involved in this that I'm leaving out.
I have no idea about how much it would cost, but if your other option is just looking for a house that's already completely electric, you're going to have some slim pickings. Although the popularity of tankless water heaters is increasing, most places will still have gas so there's a good chance you'll have to do at least some of this work no matter what.
posted by LionIndex at 8:07 AM on September 5, 2008
I can't imagine a situation where this is cheaper than building a new house unless the house you're moving is already a mobile home, in which case, the wire changes should be pretty easy as you'd be able to do most of the runs in the crawlspace under the house.
posted by jrishel at 8:19 AM on September 5, 2008
posted by jrishel at 8:19 AM on September 5, 2008
Response by poster: Thank you everyone! This is wonderful. It does not sound anywhere near as complicated as I thought. Just the issue of the house heat, then, would be the major issue... We know we'd have to buy appliances (they do not generally come with the house), and installing new wiring or plugs or whatever sounds doable.
We would be moving an entire house. Have to float it on a barge across to the island here, and likely cut it into at least two pieces... We are in the Pacific Northwest.
For solar, we likely would convert slowly over time, in the future. I am a fan of electricity, and also fire (i.e. fireplace or wood stove). Houses that have a fire for heat will have been built to take advantage of that. (The currently interesting house has a fireplace in it.) There are also baseboard heaters and underfloor heating, too. Both of those can be installed at any time (my mom recently remodeled her kitchen and was telling me about all this).
My husband has been looking at those tankless water heaters, but I think our friend up the road who put one in his new house also has underfloor heating that is in cement floors (or under them?) or something, which circulates the heat around. But he likes the tankless water heater. It seems to work well for him. I'm not sure how well it would work if you do not have warm/hot water circulating all the time already.
Since our property has nothing on it at the moment but the well house (and the well, of course, with electricity for the pump), I would rather not bring in a propane tank or anything. I'd rather just redo the entire thing as the house is being, um, installed, ;) since we will need an electrician and plumber to hook things up as it is being settled in. And a contractor, of course. But all this is my husband's problem. ;) I am only asking this question to ensure I have the information for when someone tries to tell me it cannot be done...
posted by AllieTessKipp at 8:25 AM on September 5, 2008
We would be moving an entire house. Have to float it on a barge across to the island here, and likely cut it into at least two pieces... We are in the Pacific Northwest.
For solar, we likely would convert slowly over time, in the future. I am a fan of electricity, and also fire (i.e. fireplace or wood stove). Houses that have a fire for heat will have been built to take advantage of that. (The currently interesting house has a fireplace in it.) There are also baseboard heaters and underfloor heating, too. Both of those can be installed at any time (my mom recently remodeled her kitchen and was telling me about all this).
My husband has been looking at those tankless water heaters, but I think our friend up the road who put one in his new house also has underfloor heating that is in cement floors (or under them?) or something, which circulates the heat around. But he likes the tankless water heater. It seems to work well for him. I'm not sure how well it would work if you do not have warm/hot water circulating all the time already.
Since our property has nothing on it at the moment but the well house (and the well, of course, with electricity for the pump), I would rather not bring in a propane tank or anything. I'd rather just redo the entire thing as the house is being, um, installed, ;) since we will need an electrician and plumber to hook things up as it is being settled in. And a contractor, of course. But all this is my husband's problem. ;) I am only asking this question to ensure I have the information for when someone tries to tell me it cannot be done...
posted by AllieTessKipp at 8:25 AM on September 5, 2008
Response by poster: By the way, moving a house is cheaper than building a new one in many cases, and these are not mobiles.
Here are some examples: http://www.nickelbros.com/sales.html#buildinglistings
As you can see there is a huge variety...
I hope that is what you meant, jrishel... I could not be sure if you meant building a new house is cheaper than converting a standing one to electricity or building a new house is cheaper than moving a standing house to a new location.
posted by AllieTessKipp at 8:29 AM on September 5, 2008
Here are some examples: http://www.nickelbros.com/sales.html#buildinglistings
As you can see there is a huge variety...
I hope that is what you meant, jrishel... I could not be sure if you meant building a new house is cheaper than converting a standing one to electricity or building a new house is cheaper than moving a standing house to a new location.
posted by AllieTessKipp at 8:29 AM on September 5, 2008
We would be moving an entire house. Have to float it on a barge across to the island here, and likely cut it into at least two pieces...
I don't know if you know this already, but you can buy kit houses, where you specify a layout, all the parts are made in a factory, then the parts turn up along with an assembly team, and they assemble the house.
You could consider this as an alternative to buying a house, taking it apart, and then reassembling it.
Since our property has nothing on it at the moment but the well house (and the well, of course, with electricity for the pump)
Are you using the pump's electricity supply for your house? If so, make sure it can supply enough power for your entire house as well as the pump.
posted by Mike1024 at 8:45 AM on September 5, 2008
I don't know if you know this already, but you can buy kit houses, where you specify a layout, all the parts are made in a factory, then the parts turn up along with an assembly team, and they assemble the house.
You could consider this as an alternative to buying a house, taking it apart, and then reassembling it.
Since our property has nothing on it at the moment but the well house (and the well, of course, with electricity for the pump)
Are you using the pump's electricity supply for your house? If so, make sure it can supply enough power for your entire house as well as the pump.
posted by Mike1024 at 8:45 AM on September 5, 2008
You could consider this as an alternative to buying a house, taking it apart, and then reassembling it.
They might cut the house into a few pieces or something, but they're not going to "take it apart". Buildings get jacked up off their foundations and moved all the time, especially historic ones. It's not an odd thing.
My husband has been looking at those tankless water heaters, but I think our friend up the road who put one in his new house also has underfloor heating that is in cement floors (or under them?) or something, which circulates the heat around. But he likes the tankless water heater. It seems to work well for him. I'm not sure how well it would work if you do not have warm/hot water circulating all the time already.
Well, what your friend has is probably a radiant floor system, which would have a boiler and a manifold and a bunch of other stuff to go along with it. I think you can set those up so that they use water from the water heater or vice versa, but I was suggesting the tankless heaters just for your immediate water supply at the faucet and shower and such. Depending on how the house is laid out, you may need more than one, since they're usually installed right by wherever the water's coming out, but you might be able to set up a larger unit to be a "central" water heater. The tankless water heaters typically don't turn on until there's a demand for hot water.
posted by LionIndex at 8:58 AM on September 5, 2008
They might cut the house into a few pieces or something, but they're not going to "take it apart". Buildings get jacked up off their foundations and moved all the time, especially historic ones. It's not an odd thing.
My husband has been looking at those tankless water heaters, but I think our friend up the road who put one in his new house also has underfloor heating that is in cement floors (or under them?) or something, which circulates the heat around. But he likes the tankless water heater. It seems to work well for him. I'm not sure how well it would work if you do not have warm/hot water circulating all the time already.
Well, what your friend has is probably a radiant floor system, which would have a boiler and a manifold and a bunch of other stuff to go along with it. I think you can set those up so that they use water from the water heater or vice versa, but I was suggesting the tankless heaters just for your immediate water supply at the faucet and shower and such. Depending on how the house is laid out, you may need more than one, since they're usually installed right by wherever the water's coming out, but you might be able to set up a larger unit to be a "central" water heater. The tankless water heaters typically don't turn on until there's a demand for hot water.
posted by LionIndex at 8:58 AM on September 5, 2008
On-demand electric water heaters are very efficient but depend on your peak demand as to whether they are the right choice. Saying that, you can use an on-demand in conjunction with a tank if you want high flow in short spaces of time, such as big bath or crazy shower.
They can also be tied into your radiant floor system and with suitable plumbing they can bypass the system and deliver potable water. To do this however you would probably need a glycol system separated by a heat exchanger. You are best to speak to a professional hydronic contractor.
The 2nd pdf at this link is an excellent guide for one brand.
posted by Frasermoo at 9:11 AM on September 5, 2008
They can also be tied into your radiant floor system and with suitable plumbing they can bypass the system and deliver potable water. To do this however you would probably need a glycol system separated by a heat exchanger. You are best to speak to a professional hydronic contractor.
The 2nd pdf at this link is an excellent guide for one brand.
posted by Frasermoo at 9:11 AM on September 5, 2008
If you already have a well for water you should seriously look into an open loop ground source heat pump (often referred to as geothermal heat) for your heating/cooling needs. The most expensive part is usually the ground loop, which you already have in the form of a water well. They're very efficient, more so than gas or oil and they also heat domestic hot water as a by-product using a little doohicky called a de-superheater. Combine that with a solar hot water system and you could be heating your hot water for next to nothing.
They work very well with hydronic radiant heat, which is what you might mean by "underfloor heat."
posted by bondcliff at 9:22 AM on September 5, 2008
They work very well with hydronic radiant heat, which is what you might mean by "underfloor heat."
posted by bondcliff at 9:22 AM on September 5, 2008
If you want to go solar eventually, a tankless heater is probably not your best bet (assuming there will be times you want hot water when it's dark outside). I would think it smart to go the opposite route- a large capacity hot water tank the you can heat up with solar all day long.
posted by Patapsco Mike at 9:39 AM on September 5, 2008
posted by Patapsco Mike at 9:39 AM on September 5, 2008
Consumer Reports just did a bit on on demand water heaters. The general conclusion was that the high cost doesn't justify the savings. Highly efficient tank water heaters use about the same amount of energy. Also note that "efficiency" of electric resistance heating is almost always near 100%, but it is typically very expensive when compared to natural gas. Electric tankless water heaters are generally not able to meet normal demand if the incoming water is not already warm. Solar hot water is a relatively cheap way to boost the incoming temperature. Currently, solar hot water is the only really cost effective solar technology. Photovolatics are still to expensive and pay for themselves only after 25-30 years or so.
Definitely look into the geothermal heat pump, that really seems like the way to go in terms of real energy conservation.
If you're going all electric and your house is at a remote location, you should consider a backup generator until your solar system is developed enough to have significant storage. Even then, a backup generator is probably a good idea.
posted by electroboy at 9:41 AM on September 5, 2008
Definitely look into the geothermal heat pump, that really seems like the way to go in terms of real energy conservation.
If you're going all electric and your house is at a remote location, you should consider a backup generator until your solar system is developed enough to have significant storage. Even then, a backup generator is probably a good idea.
posted by electroboy at 9:41 AM on September 5, 2008
We will eventually be converting to solar and I'd prefer the house run on electricity when we move in.
If your plan is to convert entirely to solar (i.e. to go off-grid), you'll want to think pretty carefully about what that will look like before you start running new wiring and taking out gas lines. Stoves, dryers, and hot water tanks take a lot of energy to run, which is why they often use gas. Setting up a solar system that would have enough collection and storage capacity to power these appliances can be very, very expensive, especially if you are in relatively cloudy area.
For that reason, many people who live off-grid still use propane for their major appliances. They are also likely to do without a dryer. There is also the possibility of a solar hot water system to heat your water directly with sunlight (which is much more efficient than converting sunlight to electricity and then to heat) and/or of looping your hot water system through your wood stove to heat your water with wood heat in the winter.
You may want to consult with someone in your area who is experienced with these sorts of issues, even if you aren't converting to solar right away, to avoid making changes that will limit your options in the future.
posted by ssg at 10:04 AM on September 5, 2008
If your plan is to convert entirely to solar (i.e. to go off-grid), you'll want to think pretty carefully about what that will look like before you start running new wiring and taking out gas lines. Stoves, dryers, and hot water tanks take a lot of energy to run, which is why they often use gas. Setting up a solar system that would have enough collection and storage capacity to power these appliances can be very, very expensive, especially if you are in relatively cloudy area.
For that reason, many people who live off-grid still use propane for their major appliances. They are also likely to do without a dryer. There is also the possibility of a solar hot water system to heat your water directly with sunlight (which is much more efficient than converting sunlight to electricity and then to heat) and/or of looping your hot water system through your wood stove to heat your water with wood heat in the winter.
You may want to consult with someone in your area who is experienced with these sorts of issues, even if you aren't converting to solar right away, to avoid making changes that will limit your options in the future.
posted by ssg at 10:04 AM on September 5, 2008
Well, what your friend has is probably a radiant floor system, which would have a boiler and a manifold and a bunch of other stuff to go along with it. I think you can set those up so that they use water from the water heater
You can get electric under floor heating if you want.
posted by Mike1024 at 11:45 AM on September 5, 2008
You can get electric under floor heating if you want.
posted by Mike1024 at 11:45 AM on September 5, 2008
FWIW, I've seen plumbers on another forum regularly refer to on-demand water heaters as t(h)ankless.
I agree with ssg. I'm not a solar energy expert but I have lived in the Pacific (sort of) Northwest, in Northern California, and I can't see a solar array big enough to satisfy an entire household's energy needs during those perpetually rainy winter months as anything but a pipe dream, unless you're quite wealthy.
posted by jon1270 at 1:46 PM on September 5, 2008
I agree with ssg. I'm not a solar energy expert but I have lived in the Pacific (sort of) Northwest, in Northern California, and I can't see a solar array big enough to satisfy an entire household's energy needs during those perpetually rainy winter months as anything but a pipe dream, unless you're quite wealthy.
posted by jon1270 at 1:46 PM on September 5, 2008
Wait, you want to run a dryer off solar power? Just get a solar powered clothes dryer, they are much cheaper, free up room inside of your house, and you won´t need to buy expensive solar cells and batteries to run one. Buying dryer sheets and cleaning the lint trap is also avoided.
posted by yohko at 1:56 PM on September 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by yohko at 1:56 PM on September 5, 2008 [1 favorite]
This thread is closed to new comments.
I'd think an electrician (with some help from a plumber and maybe an HVAC technician) would have the skills to remove the old equipment and install the new stuff. I don't think it will be cheap by any means, but maybe calling an electrician to ask for a non-binding ballpark price might give you an idea of how expensive if no one else here can.
posted by tomwheeler at 7:35 AM on September 5, 2008