Help me talk to a friend who has found the lord
August 3, 2008 7:36 AM Subscribe
What books or other resources are available that speak to the things that Jesus taught and how he encouraged his followers to actually live? Things like his central message of peace, love, non-judgment, etc.
I'm looking to find something for a friend of mine that focuses on these positive messages that are actually in the bible, rather than the stuff that he is otherwise likely hearing from the evangelicals that surround him. Things like judging people, anti-gay messages, dogma, etc.
I'm looking to find something for a friend of mine that focuses on these positive messages that are actually in the bible, rather than the stuff that he is otherwise likely hearing from the evangelicals that surround him. Things like judging people, anti-gay messages, dogma, etc.
The Skeptics Annotated Bible has a Good Stuff section which lists things like that.
posted by cmonkey at 8:02 AM on August 3, 2008
posted by cmonkey at 8:02 AM on August 3, 2008
You could just read the Bible, or at least the New Testament.
I'm not being snarky -- I've done it, and I'm not religious. It's an interesting book. Having done the reading yourself will let you have a more meaningful conversation with your friend than if you show up with a bunch of quotations you found on the Internet.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:40 AM on August 3, 2008
I'm not being snarky -- I've done it, and I'm not religious. It's an interesting book. Having done the reading yourself will let you have a more meaningful conversation with your friend than if you show up with a bunch of quotations you found on the Internet.
posted by The corpse in the library at 8:40 AM on August 3, 2008
What Jesus Meant by Garry Wills is presumptuously titled, but a fascinating read.
"To read the Gospels in the spirit with which they were written, it is not enough to ask what Jesus did or said," Wills writes. "We must ask what Jesus meant by his strange words and deeds." Or, more precisely, what the Gospel authors meant; as the Gospel of John acknowledges, the scriptures were composed "that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye might have life through his name."posted by wfrgms at 9:19 AM on August 3, 2008
I'd classify myself as someone who mainly believes in Jesus as a sort of Gandhi-like figure, not the whole savior thing. Somehow, I stumbled upon Real Live Preacher, a Baptist minister in Texas who somehow manages to defy just about every stereotype you'd imagine from that title. He writes modern parables, talks about his own struggles, relates to the people around him, doubts, loves, and basically expresses Christianity in a refreshing, humble way -- pretty much my own interpretation of WJWD.
posted by Madamina at 9:21 AM on August 3, 2008
posted by Madamina at 9:21 AM on August 3, 2008
I would simply remind him that there are the Ten Commandments, the 2 greatest commandments mentioned throughout the new testament and the Beatitudes (very good list of things to keep in mind).
As far as judging others is concerned, I would find that verse that basically says do not judge, and you shall not be judged, and elaborate on the consequences of judging, seen and unseen.
Good Luck and may the Lord be with you on this.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:39 AM on August 3, 2008
As far as judging others is concerned, I would find that verse that basically says do not judge, and you shall not be judged, and elaborate on the consequences of judging, seen and unseen.
Good Luck and may the Lord be with you on this.
posted by JoeXIII007 at 9:39 AM on August 3, 2008
I'm not sure they will appeal to an evangelical, but Dorothy Day's The Long Loneliness and Loaves and Fishes are very moving, and present radically different examples of Christ/Bible-inspired lives than your friend appears to be getting.
The Catholic Worker movement that Day started takes the Works of Mercy, the social message of the Gospels, and the command to love one's neighbor with inspiring and unswerving seriousness.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:03 AM on August 3, 2008
The Catholic Worker movement that Day started takes the Works of Mercy, the social message of the Gospels, and the command to love one's neighbor with inspiring and unswerving seriousness.
posted by ryanshepard at 10:03 AM on August 3, 2008
You might want to look into Bishop John Shelby Spong - not that websites page of related organizations. There are plenty of resources associated with what generally calls itself progressive Christianity.
Bear in mind that if your friend is in fact worshiping/studying with politically and theologically conservative Christians ("evangelicals" is an imprecise and misleading word), these associates can and will directly attack progressive and liberal conceptions of Christianity, representing it as mistaken or even secretly motivated by evil to counteract the "correct truth" of their Christian theology. If you are not a Christian, your attempts to lead him to alternative Christian viewpoints could well backfire. You are unlikely to be equipped to respond to the sorts of negative interpretations of progressive theology he will be exposed to. These counterarguments are very well developed. Conservative thinkers are well aware of progressive Christianity and the threat it represents.
The input of an actual believing Christian who practices from a progressive and liberal viewpoint might carry more weight, but honestly you are probably not going to have much influence on your friend's religious development.
posted by nanojath at 10:43 AM on August 3, 2008
Bear in mind that if your friend is in fact worshiping/studying with politically and theologically conservative Christians ("evangelicals" is an imprecise and misleading word), these associates can and will directly attack progressive and liberal conceptions of Christianity, representing it as mistaken or even secretly motivated by evil to counteract the "correct truth" of their Christian theology. If you are not a Christian, your attempts to lead him to alternative Christian viewpoints could well backfire. You are unlikely to be equipped to respond to the sorts of negative interpretations of progressive theology he will be exposed to. These counterarguments are very well developed. Conservative thinkers are well aware of progressive Christianity and the threat it represents.
The input of an actual believing Christian who practices from a progressive and liberal viewpoint might carry more weight, but honestly you are probably not going to have much influence on your friend's religious development.
posted by nanojath at 10:43 AM on August 3, 2008
Brian McLaren's The Secret Message of Jesus is pretty good for this, and he cites a lot of good books, too. Phillip Yancey's The Jesus I Never Knew is worth a look, too. I like Shane Claiborne, esp the new one he co-wrote, Jesus for President. Not directly about the person of Christ, but still useful is Anne Lamott, unless her liberal politics will annoy your friend. Traveling Mercies has less of this than Plan B, and is a good place to start.
Michael Frost has a great message on Youtube, although the volume is low, that does a great job of summing up the "missional" approach to faith, which is kind of a buzzword, but is basically a movement to recapture the message of Jesus and live it out as the mission of the church. I think it is a great message to help people get their priorities straight.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:48 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Michael Frost has a great message on Youtube, although the volume is low, that does a great job of summing up the "missional" approach to faith, which is kind of a buzzword, but is basically a movement to recapture the message of Jesus and live it out as the mission of the church. I think it is a great message to help people get their priorities straight.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:48 AM on August 3, 2008 [1 favorite]
Re: nanojath's recommendation. My guess is your friend would find Spong pretty off-putting, if he's at all conservative in his theology. And I'm fairly liberal, but I still think Spong comes unhinged pretty often. Any of his books that I've read are mainly concerned with trying to poke holes in a fundy reading of the scripture, which I'm all in favor of, but I don't find his alternative useful. When he does still like try to read between the lines to make the case that the apostle Paul was gay, it's become clear that his personal agenda is driving things beyond what the text can reasonably support.
There are plenty of folks who are more conservative theologically but still manage to figure out what Jesus' priorities are. You can have a high view of the inspiration of the Bible and still understand that Jesus came to serve and love--so I'd pick my battles on that one. Some of the people on nanojath's third link, like Tony Campolo and Jim Wallis, in addition to the ones in my previous comment, will steer your friend in a healthy direction without all the axe-grinding of Spong.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:57 AM on August 3, 2008
There are plenty of folks who are more conservative theologically but still manage to figure out what Jesus' priorities are. You can have a high view of the inspiration of the Bible and still understand that Jesus came to serve and love--so I'd pick my battles on that one. Some of the people on nanojath's third link, like Tony Campolo and Jim Wallis, in addition to the ones in my previous comment, will steer your friend in a healthy direction without all the axe-grinding of Spong.
posted by Pater Aletheias at 10:57 AM on August 3, 2008
I am not specifically a christian, but I really like the books, tapes and lectures by Marianne Williamson. She lectures on the teachings of Christ and on A Course in Miracles. The book I find most useful is A Return To Love.
posted by gt2 at 11:51 AM on August 3, 2008
posted by gt2 at 11:51 AM on August 3, 2008
Ronald Sider Rich christians in an age of Hunger covers Jesus attitude and words on the poors and poverty. It is skewed toward literal reading of the Bible, so it might not suit everybody.
Henry Nouwen Compassion talks how to live according to the words of Jesus in this modern world.
Jim Wallis Faith Works is a reflection on Christian beliefs, social change, and responsabilities.
Robert McAfee Brown Unexpected News describes how different cultures interpret the words of Jesus in a totally different manner (liberation theology).
posted by francesca too at 12:27 PM on August 3, 2008
Henry Nouwen Compassion talks how to live according to the words of Jesus in this modern world.
Jim Wallis Faith Works is a reflection on Christian beliefs, social change, and responsabilities.
Robert McAfee Brown Unexpected News describes how different cultures interpret the words of Jesus in a totally different manner (liberation theology).
posted by francesca too at 12:27 PM on August 3, 2008
Response by poster: Thanks for all your responses so far.
Just some context: I myself was brought up as an evangelical Christian so know the ideology well. For me to grow I had to reject all that and find my own spiritual path. What I'm really trying to do is find something that speaks to the essence of Christianity rather than as it is practiced today. While I understand that Christians are not hate-spewing monsters, on the most part they are not speaking from a place of love and non-judgment and forgiveness, but rather from a place of received teachings from their churches. I want something beyond churches - the real deal. Not sure if I'm making sense...
posted by Lleyam at 12:46 PM on August 3, 2008
Just some context: I myself was brought up as an evangelical Christian so know the ideology well. For me to grow I had to reject all that and find my own spiritual path. What I'm really trying to do is find something that speaks to the essence of Christianity rather than as it is practiced today. While I understand that Christians are not hate-spewing monsters, on the most part they are not speaking from a place of love and non-judgment and forgiveness, but rather from a place of received teachings from their churches. I want something beyond churches - the real deal. Not sure if I'm making sense...
posted by Lleyam at 12:46 PM on August 3, 2008
Best answer: The Gospel According to Jesus by Stephen Mitchell is a bit controversial but would be worth a look. He does sort of what Jefferson did in combining all the gospels and looking for specific things Jesus said and did. Then distilling that into his own single gospel. It's a pretty progressive perspective.
The shortest and simplest route though may be a review of The Beatitudes. Matthew 5:3-12 is the better version as it has the bonus blessings not found in Luke's version. Matthew's reporting of the whole sermon on the mount I think offers the most positive and in many ways, the most direct message from Jesus. Mathew 5-7. I believe it is also the longest direct quote. There's some tough stuff in there about divorce and adultery, for example. But there's also a lot of judge not, love your enemy, and bless peace.
posted by Toekneesan at 1:17 PM on August 3, 2008
The shortest and simplest route though may be a review of The Beatitudes. Matthew 5:3-12 is the better version as it has the bonus blessings not found in Luke's version. Matthew's reporting of the whole sermon on the mount I think offers the most positive and in many ways, the most direct message from Jesus. Mathew 5-7. I believe it is also the longest direct quote. There's some tough stuff in there about divorce and adultery, for example. But there's also a lot of judge not, love your enemy, and bless peace.
posted by Toekneesan at 1:17 PM on August 3, 2008
Maybe the books and teachings of Swedenborg?
Also, A New Earth, by Eckhart Tolle (references Jesus a lot, as well as Buddha, etc.), and Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch has a definite message of tolerance and is written from the point of view of someone having a direction conversation with God.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 1:47 PM on August 3, 2008
Also, A New Earth, by Eckhart Tolle (references Jesus a lot, as well as Buddha, etc.), and Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch has a definite message of tolerance and is written from the point of view of someone having a direction conversation with God.
posted by Marie Mon Dieu at 1:47 PM on August 3, 2008
Blue Like Jazz is great. I don't know your friend's age - its probably best for 20 somethings
posted by jpdoane at 2:00 PM on August 3, 2008
posted by jpdoane at 2:00 PM on August 3, 2008
Best answer: The Jefferson Bible is precisely what you want.
From: Google Book Search: The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth Introduction by Forrest Church - In 1794, President Thomas Jefferson set out to uncover the essence of true religion from the Gospels by extracting Jesus' message of absolute love and service from the annunciation, virgin birth, and even the resurrection. Completed in 1819, this little book is the result of Jefferson's efforts."Gives us a preaching Jesus of distinctly human dimensions, without miracles or resurrection [A] fascinating document, telling us a great deal about a great eighteenth century mind and its world."-Charles S. Adams, Religious Studies Review
I own this book.
posted by peace_love_hope at 2:07 PM on August 3, 2008
From: Google Book Search: The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth Introduction by Forrest Church - In 1794, President Thomas Jefferson set out to uncover the essence of true religion from the Gospels by extracting Jesus' message of absolute love and service from the annunciation, virgin birth, and even the resurrection. Completed in 1819, this little book is the result of Jefferson's efforts."Gives us a preaching Jesus of distinctly human dimensions, without miracles or resurrection [A] fascinating document, telling us a great deal about a great eighteenth century mind and its world."-Charles S. Adams, Religious Studies Review
I own this book.
posted by peace_love_hope at 2:07 PM on August 3, 2008
Best answer: Toekneesan alluded to it, but you could take a look at The Jefferson Bible (officially titled "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth") written by Thomas Jefferson. He basically condensed the New Testament by "removing sections of the New Testament containing supernatural aspects as well as perceived misinterpretations he believed had been added by the Four Evangelists", according to the Wikipedia article.
The University of Virginia has it online.
posted by bugsoup at 2:14 PM on August 3, 2008
The University of Virginia has it online.
posted by bugsoup at 2:14 PM on August 3, 2008
Per your follow-up comment, I assume that you're already familiar with your friend's church (or at least the local trends in evangelical teaching), so nevermind my earlier suggestion of accompanying your friend to church (and sincere apologies for assuming you were judging evangelicals as an outsider rather than someone who has been in the club and seen it from there). I'd like to re-recommend Rob Bell with a bit more explanation, though. He's exceptionally smart, and exceptionally different from any of the big name evangelicals I grew up hearing. For example, I recall one sermon in which Bell mentioned that Jesus only spoke about hell when he talked discussed how people treat the poor.
If your friend is a new convert to a particularly judgmental or closed-minded flavor of evangelical Christianity, it's going to be a hard sell to get him reading the Jefferson Bible or Bishop Spong, or anyone else who tries to downplay Christ's divinity in favor of his moral teachings. What you want, I think, is someone who absolutely affirms Christ's divinity and status as Son of God and Savior while at the same time addressing the shortfalls of the 20th century evangelical church (ignoring social justice in favor of right wing politics and legalistic adherence to certain rules). Introducing your friend to Rob Bell, who writes and preaches from within the context of a respected and well-known American megachurch, might be an easier way to start the dialogue with him about the problems you encountered in your experience with evangelical Christianity and the differences between their teaching and Jesus' actual message. He knows his stuff, and his sermons are packed with scripture citations (very often in-depth, thoughtful evaluations of whole passages/stories rather than speechifying on a given topic with random single verses thrown in to make it look like his argument is backed by Jesus).
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:55 PM on August 3, 2008
If your friend is a new convert to a particularly judgmental or closed-minded flavor of evangelical Christianity, it's going to be a hard sell to get him reading the Jefferson Bible or Bishop Spong, or anyone else who tries to downplay Christ's divinity in favor of his moral teachings. What you want, I think, is someone who absolutely affirms Christ's divinity and status as Son of God and Savior while at the same time addressing the shortfalls of the 20th century evangelical church (ignoring social justice in favor of right wing politics and legalistic adherence to certain rules). Introducing your friend to Rob Bell, who writes and preaches from within the context of a respected and well-known American megachurch, might be an easier way to start the dialogue with him about the problems you encountered in your experience with evangelical Christianity and the differences between their teaching and Jesus' actual message. He knows his stuff, and his sermons are packed with scripture citations (very often in-depth, thoughtful evaluations of whole passages/stories rather than speechifying on a given topic with random single verses thrown in to make it look like his argument is backed by Jesus).
posted by Meg_Murry at 4:55 PM on August 3, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
However, you might be wise to accompany your friend to his new church rather than speculate about the hateful things he is "likely hearing from the evangelicals that surround him." Not all evangelicals are horrible, hateful people. I grew up with them and ended up leaving the church, but I still love my family and they love me. YMMV.
posted by Meg_Murry at 7:58 AM on August 3, 2008