Non-Violent History
July 14, 2008 9:10 AM Subscribe
AlternativeHistoryFilter: What would the world be like if domestic abusers, along with their achievements, were erased from history?
This post was deleted for the following reason: chatfilter, sorry. -- mathowie
Could you define what you mean by domestic abuser? 'cause the US President sounds like he fits that description and I'm not sure that's what you mean.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:20 AM on July 14, 2008
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:20 AM on July 14, 2008
Seems kind of chatfiltery.
I mean, social norms have evolved greatly over the history of homo sapiens, and if you were to be thorough, we'd probably still be living in caves without any tools or fire.
posted by Oktober at 9:28 AM on July 14, 2008
I mean, social norms have evolved greatly over the history of homo sapiens, and if you were to be thorough, we'd probably still be living in caves without any tools or fire.
posted by Oktober at 9:28 AM on July 14, 2008
Could you define what you mean by 'erased from history'? Because doing so could cause a temporal causality paradox.
posted by demiurge at 9:30 AM on July 14, 2008
posted by demiurge at 9:30 AM on July 14, 2008
Confusing police reports. Also, increased sales of erasers.
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:31 AM on July 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by Sticherbeast at 9:31 AM on July 14, 2008 [4 favorites]
Could you define what you mean by 'erased from history'?
Click 'refresh' on this question in a few minutes to find out.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 9:32 AM on July 14, 2008 [5 favorites]
Click 'refresh' on this question in a few minutes to find out.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 9:32 AM on July 14, 2008 [5 favorites]
You can't just remove abuse from history, especially when that seems to have been the basis for history the last X thousand years.
The world would probably lack industry, period. Not that abuse is a product of industry, but industry is a product of abuse (of the planet). So Oktober is half right. We would be living in tribal societies that lack industrial technologies, but--and this is where I disagree with Oktober--just because we wouldn't have industrial technologies doesn't mean we wouldn't advance in many other ways.
posted by symbollocks at 9:39 AM on July 14, 2008
The world would probably lack industry, period. Not that abuse is a product of industry, but industry is a product of abuse (of the planet). So Oktober is half right. We would be living in tribal societies that lack industrial technologies, but--and this is where I disagree with Oktober--just because we wouldn't have industrial technologies doesn't mean we wouldn't advance in many other ways.
posted by symbollocks at 9:39 AM on July 14, 2008
COPS would be dedicated to moving violations. Next question.
posted by spamguy at 9:41 AM on July 14, 2008
posted by spamguy at 9:41 AM on July 14, 2008
Sooo you're asking what the world would be like if most of our ancestors never existed?
posted by Annon E Moose at 9:49 AM on July 14, 2008
posted by Annon E Moose at 9:49 AM on July 14, 2008
There'd be no human race; cavemen were not sensitive lovers.
posted by nicwolff at 9:50 AM on July 14, 2008
posted by nicwolff at 9:50 AM on July 14, 2008
I think the OP is asking about an alternate history where abuse is the exception rather than the rule. I don't think they're asking for a history where there is absolutely no abuse.
posted by symbollocks at 9:56 AM on July 14, 2008
posted by symbollocks at 9:56 AM on July 14, 2008
At the very least, none of the 6.7 billion people currently alive would ever have existed. A completely different set of humans might, though.
This has nothing to do with domestic abusers per se, and everything to do with alternate histories. Science fiction, especially on television, likes to give us the "make one change centuries in the past, and society completely changes--but still has the exact same people, just now in different roles!" That doesn't really stand up to thoughtful scrutiny.
Change society, and you're changing who does and doesn't die before reproducing, who meets whom, and who reproduces with whom. Ursula LeGuin does only slightly better than most in The Lathe of Heaven--when the protagonist retroactively changes humanity to be a single race, in the hope of undoing all racial strife, his girlfriend disappears (her parents had met at an anti-racism rally), but LeGuin doesn't really consider just how much of human history this would change, and the fact that none of the other characters would likely be around any more either.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:57 AM on July 14, 2008
This has nothing to do with domestic abusers per se, and everything to do with alternate histories. Science fiction, especially on television, likes to give us the "make one change centuries in the past, and society completely changes--but still has the exact same people, just now in different roles!" That doesn't really stand up to thoughtful scrutiny.
Change society, and you're changing who does and doesn't die before reproducing, who meets whom, and who reproduces with whom. Ursula LeGuin does only slightly better than most in The Lathe of Heaven--when the protagonist retroactively changes humanity to be a single race, in the hope of undoing all racial strife, his girlfriend disappears (her parents had met at an anti-racism rally), but LeGuin doesn't really consider just how much of human history this would change, and the fact that none of the other characters would likely be around any more either.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:57 AM on July 14, 2008
I don't know about this world, but the colony at Kyana Prime would be restored.
posted by Fat Guy at 10:01 AM on July 14, 2008
posted by Fat Guy at 10:01 AM on July 14, 2008
I'm going to assume you mean "erased from written history" rather than "ceased to exist and were removed bodily from existence."
That said, our history texts and knowledge would be a lot poorer for the effort. There are a great many men and women who did remarkable things, and happened to abuse their spouses or children at one point or another. In fact, it's a remarkably subjective notion, because what was once common and well accepted (children must be docile and submissive at times, or face a beating) is now considered child abuse.
Without a doubt, history records people based on the changes they make to the culture and landscape, and death comes to each and every one of us. I don't wish to diminish the importance of acknowledging and preventing abuse, but it seems like a foolish and arbitrary manner of addressing the subject. For instance, Hitler may well have abused those in his home as well as everything else he did. Should we strip the books of all references to him? Surely I think not!
posted by explosion at 10:13 AM on July 14, 2008
That said, our history texts and knowledge would be a lot poorer for the effort. There are a great many men and women who did remarkable things, and happened to abuse their spouses or children at one point or another. In fact, it's a remarkably subjective notion, because what was once common and well accepted (children must be docile and submissive at times, or face a beating) is now considered child abuse.
Without a doubt, history records people based on the changes they make to the culture and landscape, and death comes to each and every one of us. I don't wish to diminish the importance of acknowledging and preventing abuse, but it seems like a foolish and arbitrary manner of addressing the subject. For instance, Hitler may well have abused those in his home as well as everything else he did. Should we strip the books of all references to him? Surely I think not!
posted by explosion at 10:13 AM on July 14, 2008
For instance, Hitler may well have abused those in his home as well as everything else he did. Should we strip the books of all references to him?
Godwin's Law (Chatfilter Variant): As a Metafilter discussion on alternative history grows longer, the probability of speculation on what would have happened if Hitler had never been born approaches one.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:19 AM on July 14, 2008
Godwin's Law (Chatfilter Variant): As a Metafilter discussion on alternative history grows longer, the probability of speculation on what would have happened if Hitler had never been born approaches one.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 10:19 AM on July 14, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by greta simone at 9:16 AM on July 14, 2008