I eat my peas with honey?
July 2, 2008 12:19 PM
Can anyone help me master tines-down eating?
All my life I've used my utensils in the North American style - fork mainly in the right hand, scooping the food into my mouth. Yay! But now that I've moved to England I'm struggling with tines-down eating.
Can any of the pros out there help me out with some basic tips? How do you get the food to stay on the fork properly? And what are the exceptions - last few peas, non-sticky rice, anything like that?
I've tried to subtly observe other peoples' techniques at the table, but then I forget to eat my own food quickly enough, leading to me being the last and only one left with food on my plate with everyone watching me drop food all over my lap.
All my life I've used my utensils in the North American style - fork mainly in the right hand, scooping the food into my mouth. Yay! But now that I've moved to England I'm struggling with tines-down eating.
Can any of the pros out there help me out with some basic tips? How do you get the food to stay on the fork properly? And what are the exceptions - last few peas, non-sticky rice, anything like that?
I've tried to subtly observe other peoples' techniques at the table, but then I forget to eat my own food quickly enough, leading to me being the last and only one left with food on my plate with everyone watching me drop food all over my lap.
Also to get the food to stay on you need to stab part of it (say some peas) to act as a small wall against which the rest can balance.
posted by zeoslap at 12:31 PM on July 2, 2008
posted by zeoslap at 12:31 PM on July 2, 2008
Oh, come on, just eat with the tines up, since that's the eating skill you've mastered. You aren't going to "pass," it's not going to do you any good to waste your energy trying to adapt. It's not like the forks are different over there.
posted by fiercecupcake at 12:36 PM on July 2, 2008
posted by fiercecupcake at 12:36 PM on July 2, 2008
After living in Australia a few years, this is what I learned:
- Don't try and pick up as much as you probably do in a forkful the US way. Little bites work better than big bites.
- Stab something substantial, like a piece of meat or hearty vegetable and then 'spoon' a bit of something else onto the back of the fork. The meat or veggie on the end keeps the rice, or mash, or peas from falling off. Again, littler bites makes this a tad easier.
- For things that just have to be scooped, you can switch hands.
- Lot of things that 'have' to be scooped can be kinda mushed and then pushed onto the back of the fork.
It really depends on what you are eating, but the classic kinds of dishes that work great are a meat and mashed potato kind of thing. A little meat on the tines and some mash on the back of the fork. Good eatin'.
Things like spaghetti don't work well in the left hand, unless you can spin a fork with you left.
Things that won't stay on the back of a fork by themselves are often helped by mixing them into something that will (peas into mash, or rice into a sauce).
posted by qwip at 12:37 PM on July 2, 2008
- Don't try and pick up as much as you probably do in a forkful the US way. Little bites work better than big bites.
- Stab something substantial, like a piece of meat or hearty vegetable and then 'spoon' a bit of something else onto the back of the fork. The meat or veggie on the end keeps the rice, or mash, or peas from falling off. Again, littler bites makes this a tad easier.
- For things that just have to be scooped, you can switch hands.
- Lot of things that 'have' to be scooped can be kinda mushed and then pushed onto the back of the fork.
It really depends on what you are eating, but the classic kinds of dishes that work great are a meat and mashed potato kind of thing. A little meat on the tines and some mash on the back of the fork. Good eatin'.
Things like spaghetti don't work well in the left hand, unless you can spin a fork with you left.
Things that won't stay on the back of a fork by themselves are often helped by mixing them into something that will (peas into mash, or rice into a sauce).
posted by qwip at 12:37 PM on July 2, 2008
Here's a little YT video which gives a very clear demonstration of how to hold the knife and fork.
posted by essexjan at 12:58 PM on July 2, 2008
posted by essexjan at 12:58 PM on July 2, 2008
I wouldn't worry about this generally, but there are sometimes occasions where you will either want or feel the need to adopt the local table manners. The best advice is already here from qwip and zeoslap.
I'll add that it's possible to use the edge of the knife to keep items still as you push the tines of the fork into them. But don't drag the knife across the plate when you do this. Find the food you're going to eat, put the knife edge to its right, and motion with the fork in the left to push items on to it.
Especially today, with more food influences from abroad than ever, the lump of meat + boiled veg / fish fingers and chips and peas model is rarer and the food sometimes just seems ridiculous to be eating in such a mannered way as people were in the past brought up to do. I don't know many people who'll eat a curry that way. More likely spooning it up with naan bread or using a tines-up fork or even a spoon.
posted by galaksit at 1:03 PM on July 2, 2008
I'll add that it's possible to use the edge of the knife to keep items still as you push the tines of the fork into them. But don't drag the knife across the plate when you do this. Find the food you're going to eat, put the knife edge to its right, and motion with the fork in the left to push items on to it.
Especially today, with more food influences from abroad than ever, the lump of meat + boiled veg / fish fingers and chips and peas model is rarer and the food sometimes just seems ridiculous to be eating in such a mannered way as people were in the past brought up to do. I don't know many people who'll eat a curry that way. More likely spooning it up with naan bread or using a tines-up fork or even a spoon.
posted by galaksit at 1:03 PM on July 2, 2008
What you need is food teamwork! You need a stopper at the end of the tines in order to create a successful mouthbite mountain on the back of the fork. (Think of the scene in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels when Steve Martin has the cork on the end of the fork and eats applesauce... except with more success.)
Let's say you are having steak, mashed potatoes and peas. You cut a piece of meat, stick a fork in it. Use your knife to put a smear of potato on the back. Use your knife to smush peas into the potato.
In terms of non-sticky rice, I'm going to guess you are eating Indian food with this and this is Jasmine rice? Same method as above but it helps more if you mix the rice with the sauce so you do end up getting a blob of rice together.
posted by spec80 at 1:07 PM on July 2, 2008
Let's say you are having steak, mashed potatoes and peas. You cut a piece of meat, stick a fork in it. Use your knife to put a smear of potato on the back. Use your knife to smush peas into the potato.
In terms of non-sticky rice, I'm going to guess you are eating Indian food with this and this is Jasmine rice? Same method as above but it helps more if you mix the rice with the sauce so you do end up getting a blob of rice together.
posted by spec80 at 1:07 PM on July 2, 2008
Peas = tines up. My grandmother used to put mashed potato on her fork and then squash the peas onto that, but I guess I just wasn't brought up properly or something! I use the knife to push the peas onto the tines-up fork. Same for the last few grains of rice or last few bits of anything, now that I think of it.
Qwip has it, though I must admit to being confused by "For things that just have to be scooped, you can switch hands." This strikes me as being very North American (in England your fork would stay in your left hand throughout the meal, never switching to the right).
I suggest you also ask your dining companions for tips. Anyone with any manners will not be offended at your perhaps clumsy first attempts to get it right, and may well even enjoy helping out. Most people know that there are differences in the ways people from different cultures eat, and will not think you're any less than them for having grown up with different customs. I'd think it was cute that someone was trying to learn, and be impressed by their interest in grasping the less obvious parts of a different culture. Good for you!
posted by different at 1:10 PM on July 2, 2008
Qwip has it, though I must admit to being confused by "For things that just have to be scooped, you can switch hands." This strikes me as being very North American (in England your fork would stay in your left hand throughout the meal, never switching to the right).
I suggest you also ask your dining companions for tips. Anyone with any manners will not be offended at your perhaps clumsy first attempts to get it right, and may well even enjoy helping out. Most people know that there are differences in the ways people from different cultures eat, and will not think you're any less than them for having grown up with different customs. I'd think it was cute that someone was trying to learn, and be impressed by their interest in grasping the less obvious parts of a different culture. Good for you!
posted by different at 1:10 PM on July 2, 2008
For things that just have to be scooped, you can switch hands.
Not in the UK, no. In the USA, yes. In parts of Canada, yes. In the UK that is not acceptable table manners, generally speaking.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 1:39 PM on July 2, 2008
Not in the UK, no. In the USA, yes. In parts of Canada, yes. In the UK that is not acceptable table manners, generally speaking.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 1:39 PM on July 2, 2008
In the UK that is not acceptable table manners, generally speaking.
Nor on the continent.
And another thing... remember to leave your fork and knife side by side on your plate when you are finished. This tells a continental waiter that you are finished. If you leave them on the table, they will assume you are still eating.
And one more.. when you are ready to order close the menu and place it on the table in front of you. Don't expect a mannered waiter to interrupt you while you are reading it.
I see lots of Americans frustrated with "the poor service" when they don't realize the servivce is fine, they just don't know how it works.
posted by three blind mice at 1:45 PM on July 2, 2008
Nor on the continent.
And another thing... remember to leave your fork and knife side by side on your plate when you are finished. This tells a continental waiter that you are finished. If you leave them on the table, they will assume you are still eating.
And one more.. when you are ready to order close the menu and place it on the table in front of you. Don't expect a mannered waiter to interrupt you while you are reading it.
I see lots of Americans frustrated with "the poor service" when they don't realize the servivce is fine, they just don't know how it works.
posted by three blind mice at 1:45 PM on July 2, 2008
And another thing... remember to leave your fork and knife side by side on your plate
At about 5 o'clock, too.
posted by redfoxtail at 1:47 PM on July 2, 2008
At about 5 o'clock, too.
posted by redfoxtail at 1:47 PM on July 2, 2008
The only time that anyone will worry about which way up you hold your fork (or even in which hand) is at a formal dinner (a "function," not an evening dinner with friends). Then it is a good idea to just use a small amount of potato or something else at the end of the times. You actually do learn to balance peas on the tines without this if you practice - just keep that section of the tines level!
You may even find that eating in the American style gets you attention when you don't know people. When I first came to the States, people used to ask me why I was holding my utensils in the English style and it started quite a few acquaintances!
Holding your fork tines up is perfectly acceptable for slippery food in most situations (just don't lick your knife or your dessert fork if using with a spoon - the fork is to hold food steady or push it onto the spoon. I remember many an evening's detention at school before I learned the latter!). You are excused if you are "foreign" and you are excused if you can locate your social worth in some other way. I'd work on being interesting, rather than on having perfect table manners.
Table manners are a class thing: hardly anyone bothers much any more. The only times that it will count against you is if you socialize with the upper middle class, as the way that you hold table utensils is used as a way of understanding who "belongs." Your accent would rule you out of that club, anyway ... the upper middle class are frightfully parochial ... ;-)
posted by Susurration at 2:38 PM on July 2, 2008
You may even find that eating in the American style gets you attention when you don't know people. When I first came to the States, people used to ask me why I was holding my utensils in the English style and it started quite a few acquaintances!
Holding your fork tines up is perfectly acceptable for slippery food in most situations (just don't lick your knife or your dessert fork if using with a spoon - the fork is to hold food steady or push it onto the spoon. I remember many an evening's detention at school before I learned the latter!). You are excused if you are "foreign" and you are excused if you can locate your social worth in some other way. I'd work on being interesting, rather than on having perfect table manners.
Table manners are a class thing: hardly anyone bothers much any more. The only times that it will count against you is if you socialize with the upper middle class, as the way that you hold table utensils is used as a way of understanding who "belongs." Your accent would rule you out of that club, anyway ... the upper middle class are frightfully parochial ... ;-)
posted by Susurration at 2:38 PM on July 2, 2008
Times have changed, and it's usually acceptable to scoop things like the last mashed potatoes and peas tines up, with the fork in the left hand. Changing hands is not usually done in the UK - finally, a situation where being a leftie helps! Failing that, corral them with the knife, poke them with the fork and go for it.
As a general rule, hold a piece down near the edge with the fork, and cut it away (not tear) with the knife lightly, and use the knife to push mushy things onto the back of the tines.
Generally, only old people and very upper class people stick to tines down all the time.
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:40 PM on July 2, 2008
As a general rule, hold a piece down near the edge with the fork, and cut it away (not tear) with the knife lightly, and use the knife to push mushy things onto the back of the tines.
Generally, only old people and very upper class people stick to tines down all the time.
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:40 PM on July 2, 2008
It's very laudible of you to want to change the way you handle your cutlery, but I'd be surprised if your dining companions were scrutinising your methods (and if they are...you need to find other dining companions!) As long as you take a breath between mouthfuls, don't talk with your mouth full, belch loudly or lick the plate afterwards I think you'll be okay.
posted by highrise at 2:40 PM on July 2, 2008
posted by highrise at 2:40 PM on July 2, 2008
Very true. Sitting up (no slouching), elbows off the table and swallowing before saying something are all far more important than which way up your tines are, unless you're in a full tux situation. Does anyone above the age of 6 seriously still lick their plate?
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:50 PM on July 2, 2008
posted by ArkhanJG at 2:50 PM on July 2, 2008
My English friend would use the knife to assist quadruple shiskabobbing multiple different things up the tines.
posted by Askr at 3:13 PM on July 2, 2008
posted by Askr at 3:13 PM on July 2, 2008
For added nativity points, paint your fork payload with your knife's gravy. Scoop up mashed potatoes or sauce or whatever, and wipe it all over what you've got in the left hand. It drove me nuts, but everyone did it!
posted by gensubuser at 6:29 PM on July 2, 2008
posted by gensubuser at 6:29 PM on July 2, 2008
Seconding (thirding?) the use of the knife. It's in your right hand, so it actually ends up doing most of the hard work.
Just wait 'til you start using the spoon scooping away. Fun times.
posted by methylsalicylate at 5:03 AM on July 3, 2008
Just wait 'til you start using the spoon scooping away. Fun times.
posted by methylsalicylate at 5:03 AM on July 3, 2008
And what are the exceptions - last few peas, non-sticky rice, anything like that?
If you're hanging out with people posh enough give a toss about which way you hold your fork, then they're posh enough to think people who eat the last few peas are obviously hungry proles.
posted by Sparx at 5:45 AM on July 3, 2008
If you're hanging out with people posh enough give a toss about which way you hold your fork, then they're posh enough to think people who eat the last few peas are obviously hungry proles.
posted by Sparx at 5:45 AM on July 3, 2008
When I first came to the UK, I felt really uncomfortable using the "zig zag" method of eating - putting the knife down and switching the fork to another hand - because I always felt people were looking at my funny. They probably weren't, but I can always tell who the American tourists are in restaurants! (Now, I get mildly teased when I visit my family in the States for not using this method...)
It was surprisingly, frustratingly hard to learn how to use a knife and fork like a UK person, but even after five years, I don't bother trying with the tines down. And really, I hardly see people eating that way anyway. My best suggestion is just to practice but don't sweat it too much. I dropped food constantly when I was learning. And do definitely let your knife do most of the work, especially if you're right handed!
posted by sascha at 9:41 AM on July 3, 2008
It was surprisingly, frustratingly hard to learn how to use a knife and fork like a UK person, but even after five years, I don't bother trying with the tines down. And really, I hardly see people eating that way anyway. My best suggestion is just to practice but don't sweat it too much. I dropped food constantly when I was learning. And do definitely let your knife do most of the work, especially if you're right handed!
posted by sascha at 9:41 AM on July 3, 2008
Does anyone above the age of 6 seriously still lick their plate?
You'd be surprised! Anyway, I added that to make my point that there are more important considerations when dining than how you hold your fork.
Besides, I'm not sure that I've ever noticed a difference between how people in England and the US eat. There are 'shovellers' and 'tines down' folk in both, I'm sure!
posted by highrise at 11:11 AM on July 3, 2008
You'd be surprised! Anyway, I added that to make my point that there are more important considerations when dining than how you hold your fork.
Besides, I'm not sure that I've ever noticed a difference between how people in England and the US eat. There are 'shovellers' and 'tines down' folk in both, I'm sure!
posted by highrise at 11:11 AM on July 3, 2008
Funny, I never realized tines-down had any importance. I have learned to eat meat with knife and fork, Euro-style, but more because it's more practical, and because it would piss off my mother.
I agree with those that say, if people are worried about the directions your tines are facing, you need to find different people with whom to dine.
What does blow European minds, in my experience, is the skill with which I can use a fork in my right hand, by cutting with the fork's side. I'm not about to give that up, it is practical and, since I am used to it, it keeps things tidy. Being tidy at table is what manners are supposed to be about, not a bunch of artificial rules.
posted by Goofyy at 7:04 AM on July 4, 2008
I agree with those that say, if people are worried about the directions your tines are facing, you need to find different people with whom to dine.
What does blow European minds, in my experience, is the skill with which I can use a fork in my right hand, by cutting with the fork's side. I'm not about to give that up, it is practical and, since I am used to it, it keeps things tidy. Being tidy at table is what manners are supposed to be about, not a bunch of artificial rules.
posted by Goofyy at 7:04 AM on July 4, 2008
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posted by zeoslap at 12:31 PM on July 2, 2008