Do I want a timeshare?
April 23, 2008 10:20 AM
I'm curious about vacation timeshares. What has your experience been? Do you have any recommendations? What are the drawbacks? Where are the best packages?
Seconding farmdoggie. I worked briefly for a non-profit org that took donations of cars, boats, and timeshares. The owners could take a tax write-off and the org would sell the item on e-Bay in order to raise funds. We had time shares that would not sell at all with an opening bid of $50 (for instance two weeks at a Vermont ski resort, one week in ski season, one week out). Others would sell for pennies on the dollar for what the owner had paid... even at places like Disney.
posted by kimdog at 11:15 AM on April 23, 2008
posted by kimdog at 11:15 AM on April 23, 2008
Listen to the segment on timeshares on the Skeptics' Guide #137. They have some good tips on what the scams are. (I'm pretty certain you won't want one after you listen.)
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:19 AM on April 23, 2008
posted by The corpse in the library at 11:19 AM on April 23, 2008
I have the Disney Vacation Club. It rocks. Basically, you get points every year for 30 years. We've given points as gifts (a cruise), we've used points for hotel rooms in NY, we've used points to stay at Disney (the food is excellent).
We are very happy with it. Make sure whatever you get the points participate in a global points exchange program...
posted by ewkpates at 11:20 AM on April 23, 2008
We are very happy with it. Make sure whatever you get the points participate in a global points exchange program...
posted by ewkpates at 11:20 AM on April 23, 2008
I'll offer a contrasting view.
A young professional friend and her partner bought "rights" to a timeshare on a whim, and love it. I don't know the name of the company (but could find out) but basically their monthly payment entitles them to a certain number of "points" to use each year, and they can use those points and any of a couple of hundred resorts worldwide. They used the points to spend a week at an all-inclusive resort in Mexico over Christmas, are using more points for an upcoming "weekend getaway" about three hours from their house, and are also going somewhere in Europe (Spain, maybe?) this fall and are taking the partner's sister along as a guest. My understanding is that their only cost is the plane tickets and whatever spending money they want (plus the monthly timeshare payment, of course).
posted by anastasiav at 11:20 AM on April 23, 2008
A young professional friend and her partner bought "rights" to a timeshare on a whim, and love it. I don't know the name of the company (but could find out) but basically their monthly payment entitles them to a certain number of "points" to use each year, and they can use those points and any of a couple of hundred resorts worldwide. They used the points to spend a week at an all-inclusive resort in Mexico over Christmas, are using more points for an upcoming "weekend getaway" about three hours from their house, and are also going somewhere in Europe (Spain, maybe?) this fall and are taking the partner's sister along as a guest. My understanding is that their only cost is the plane tickets and whatever spending money they want (plus the monthly timeshare payment, of course).
posted by anastasiav at 11:20 AM on April 23, 2008
The owners could take a tax write-off and the org would sell the item on e-Bay in order to raise funds. We had time shares that would not sell at all with an opening bid of $50
The flip side of this is that you can buy timeshares on eBay for cheap. If you are going to buy one, I would suggest buying it from an owner who is desperate to sell.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:27 AM on April 23, 2008
The flip side of this is that you can buy timeshares on eBay for cheap. If you are going to buy one, I would suggest buying it from an owner who is desperate to sell.
posted by burnmp3s at 11:27 AM on April 23, 2008
OK, not to derail, but what's the catch? I might not be interested in paying a serious price for a timeshare, but why does no one even want one at a $50 price?
posted by tyllwin at 11:34 AM on April 23, 2008
posted by tyllwin at 11:34 AM on April 23, 2008
OK, not to derail, but what's the catch? I might not be interested in paying a serious price for a timeshare, but why does no one even want one at a $50 price?
Because you still have to pay annual fees just for the privilege of owning a "week" - these fees can be hundreds of dollars, just for the privilege of maybe staying at a hotel for a week.
posted by thomas144 at 11:40 AM on April 23, 2008
Because you still have to pay annual fees just for the privilege of owning a "week" - these fees can be hundreds of dollars, just for the privilege of maybe staying at a hotel for a week.
posted by thomas144 at 11:40 AM on April 23, 2008
Do not lock yourself down to one place. Use one of the more flexible timeshare options if you're going to invest.
We bought points with Club La Costa here in Europe. It has properties all over the world and an agreement with RCI, to extend the property range. We've used both, depending on offers, buy one week get one week free etc., we've had good holidays in Crete, Italy, Spain, Mexico, France, etc in the 3 years we've bought in. They also have "Hotel Nights" for points plus some cash all over the world again which I've used.
The nitty-gritty, for a four week per annum share (this can stretch to 6 or 7 in off season as your points depend on location and period) we pay £1,350 per year maintenance, charges plus obviously our travel costs, and a further £200 to RCI for the additional range of properties.
My only quibble is that the really luxurious properties are booked out for the high season early on and we tend not to book too long in advance, BUT if you can plan in November for the following year, you'd get whatever you want.
These points systems were invented to get over the bad reputation of traditional timeshare. If you don't use all your points one year, you carry them over for up to 2 years. We can "gift" weeks to others (and have done, memorably my twin Godaughters appear to have been conceived during the stress break we gave their parents!!) once they're over 18!
They also buy up other peoples time-share weeks and so have a bank of apartments but we've never used this.
Last but not least they have two 8 bearth catamarans with a crew going all over the Med. The weekly points avaerage compares with one week in any high season resort.
The other advantage is that your investment is tied to an actual property value, your a bricks and morter "owner". Since the value of the points relates to the actual cost of running the property they own, 2 weeks in Thailand costs the same as one week in Scotland!
It suits if 1. you can plan well in advance or 2. you take pot luck with the remaining (and usually less attractive) properties.
In the fist year it probably cost us a bit more than conventional holidays (once travel is costed in) until we learned the quirks of the system. Now it definitely offers us more than we would normally afford.
YMMV
posted by Wilder at 12:00 PM on April 23, 2008
We bought points with Club La Costa here in Europe. It has properties all over the world and an agreement with RCI, to extend the property range. We've used both, depending on offers, buy one week get one week free etc., we've had good holidays in Crete, Italy, Spain, Mexico, France, etc in the 3 years we've bought in. They also have "Hotel Nights" for points plus some cash all over the world again which I've used.
The nitty-gritty, for a four week per annum share (this can stretch to 6 or 7 in off season as your points depend on location and period) we pay £1,350 per year maintenance, charges plus obviously our travel costs, and a further £200 to RCI for the additional range of properties.
My only quibble is that the really luxurious properties are booked out for the high season early on and we tend not to book too long in advance, BUT if you can plan in November for the following year, you'd get whatever you want.
These points systems were invented to get over the bad reputation of traditional timeshare. If you don't use all your points one year, you carry them over for up to 2 years. We can "gift" weeks to others (and have done, memorably my twin Godaughters appear to have been conceived during the stress break we gave their parents!!) once they're over 18!
They also buy up other peoples time-share weeks and so have a bank of apartments but we've never used this.
Last but not least they have two 8 bearth catamarans with a crew going all over the Med. The weekly points avaerage compares with one week in any high season resort.
The other advantage is that your investment is tied to an actual property value, your a bricks and morter "owner". Since the value of the points relates to the actual cost of running the property they own, 2 weeks in Thailand costs the same as one week in Scotland!
It suits if 1. you can plan well in advance or 2. you take pot luck with the remaining (and usually less attractive) properties.
In the fist year it probably cost us a bit more than conventional holidays (once travel is costed in) until we learned the quirks of the system. Now it definitely offers us more than we would normally afford.
YMMV
posted by Wilder at 12:00 PM on April 23, 2008
Forgot to add, the flexibility includes being allowed to sell the holiday to a third party. We did this once with acquaintance because we couldn't use the weeks we had booked. It covered our year's maintanance fees. Just work out how you normally plan or take holidays then compare the offers out there.
posted by Wilder at 12:06 PM on April 23, 2008
posted by Wilder at 12:06 PM on April 23, 2008
Why you would do this instead of just renting the rooms on your own? What's the difference?
They've always seemed like a sucker's deal to me. They use points to confuse you so you won't notice how much money you're wasting.
posted by kpmcguire at 12:11 PM on April 23, 2008
They've always seemed like a sucker's deal to me. They use points to confuse you so you won't notice how much money you're wasting.
posted by kpmcguire at 12:11 PM on April 23, 2008
OK, not to derail, but what's the catch? I might not be interested in paying a serious price for a timeshare, but why does no one even want one at a $50 price?
Because you still have to pay annual fees just for the privilege of owning a "week" - these fees can be hundreds of dollars, just for the privilege of maybe staying at a hotel for a week.
Take a look at this auction for instance. It's going for $1, but there's an annual $720 fee, $500 closing costs, and a $100 title transfer fee. The annual fee is not fixed: it can and will increase.
That said, $720 for a week in a suite in Hawaii is a pretty damn good deal, and most (all?) timeshare companies allow some sort of location-trading scheme. The transfer price is much cheaper than you would get going through the developer directly; definitely consider ebay if you want to do this.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:25 PM on April 23, 2008
Because you still have to pay annual fees just for the privilege of owning a "week" - these fees can be hundreds of dollars, just for the privilege of maybe staying at a hotel for a week.
Take a look at this auction for instance. It's going for $1, but there's an annual $720 fee, $500 closing costs, and a $100 title transfer fee. The annual fee is not fixed: it can and will increase.
That said, $720 for a week in a suite in Hawaii is a pretty damn good deal, and most (all?) timeshare companies allow some sort of location-trading scheme. The transfer price is much cheaper than you would get going through the developer directly; definitely consider ebay if you want to do this.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:25 PM on April 23, 2008
you pay the yearly fees whether you use them or not. if you trade to another location, through somebody like RCI you pay search fees and then more fees to make the change.
Under the terms of most of the contracts, if you let your brother ( or anybody else) use it instead of you there is a fee you are supposed to pay for that as well, some places really enforce this, others not so much
I think it's much cheaper in the long run to simply rent a place for a week when you want to go, even if the out of pocket seems a little higher at the time
posted by Mr_Chips at 12:31 PM on April 23, 2008
Under the terms of most of the contracts, if you let your brother ( or anybody else) use it instead of you there is a fee you are supposed to pay for that as well, some places really enforce this, others not so much
I think it's much cheaper in the long run to simply rent a place for a week when you want to go, even if the out of pocket seems a little higher at the time
posted by Mr_Chips at 12:31 PM on April 23, 2008
Thx for all of the discussion and points of view thsu far- this is great... yay askMeFi.
posted by InstantSanitizer at 1:17 PM on April 23, 2008
posted by InstantSanitizer at 1:17 PM on April 23, 2008
You should really go to a timeshare presentation, as long as you are the sort of person that doesn't have a problem saying "no." You should do the presentation becaues they'll give you a bunch of free stuff to do so (we saved $300 bucks off a guided kayaking trip as our bonus for sitting through the 2 hour presentation and getting fed lunch.) But under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you buy the damn thing while you're on the presentation.
They willl offer you a great deal that can only be had while you're at the presentation and not the next day, etc. Thing is: This is a great deal against the developer price. It is NOT a great deal compared to what you can get for the timeshare by buying it directly from an owner who needs to sell.
My wife and I attended one of these presentations in Hawaii. We were quoted roughly $50,000 for a 2-week block at a nice oceanfront two bedroom condo. We declined (thankfully) and then the next day I talked to a timeshare resale agent, who informed us we could get the same deal for about $11,000 by buying it directly from a seller.
Keep in mind, as others have said, that maintenance fees for timeshares can be prohibitive, especially in popular locales. For instance, that $50k two bedroom suite in Hawaii costs about $1,900 a year in maintenance fees. Of course, you'll never have to clean the place, the grounds will always be well-kept, you have access to shared facilities, etc. But it does add up.
Also, as others have said, make sure that your timeshare can be traded on RCI, or that the company has some sort of point system. You can get a great deal by buying a timeshare somewhere popular such as Hawaii or the Caribbean, and then swap out your two weeks there for six weeks at a less popular destination such as somewhere in the states or a bed and breakfast in the UK, etc. (When we eventually purchase a timeshare, we'll get it in Hawaii, rent it out one year to cover maintenance fees for the next two years, swap for time elsewhere the second year and stay in it the third year, repeat.) Best of luck!
posted by Happydaz at 1:20 PM on April 23, 2008
They willl offer you a great deal that can only be had while you're at the presentation and not the next day, etc. Thing is: This is a great deal against the developer price. It is NOT a great deal compared to what you can get for the timeshare by buying it directly from an owner who needs to sell.
My wife and I attended one of these presentations in Hawaii. We were quoted roughly $50,000 for a 2-week block at a nice oceanfront two bedroom condo. We declined (thankfully) and then the next day I talked to a timeshare resale agent, who informed us we could get the same deal for about $11,000 by buying it directly from a seller.
Keep in mind, as others have said, that maintenance fees for timeshares can be prohibitive, especially in popular locales. For instance, that $50k two bedroom suite in Hawaii costs about $1,900 a year in maintenance fees. Of course, you'll never have to clean the place, the grounds will always be well-kept, you have access to shared facilities, etc. But it does add up.
Also, as others have said, make sure that your timeshare can be traded on RCI, or that the company has some sort of point system. You can get a great deal by buying a timeshare somewhere popular such as Hawaii or the Caribbean, and then swap out your two weeks there for six weeks at a less popular destination such as somewhere in the states or a bed and breakfast in the UK, etc. (When we eventually purchase a timeshare, we'll get it in Hawaii, rent it out one year to cover maintenance fees for the next two years, swap for time elsewhere the second year and stay in it the third year, repeat.) Best of luck!
posted by Happydaz at 1:20 PM on April 23, 2008
Whether it's deserved or not, timeshares have about the same reputation in the public mind as the extended warranty and the dealer-installed undercoating.
posted by box at 1:44 PM on April 23, 2008
posted by box at 1:44 PM on April 23, 2008
My wife is the only member of her family who isn't a multiple timeshare owner and junkie. The only reason she isn't one too is that I simply refuse to be a part of them and have never understood the economics of ownership. Her father wanted to give us one about five years ago and we had one of the biggest arguments of our 30 year marriage over it when I said no way.
This winter, we stayed in one of their luxury timeshare condos in the Caribbean; largely on their dime. We were cajoled by another family member into going to a sales presentation to get the free goodies ($200.00 spendable at the resort's shops and restaurants). We pretty much let the salesman know right off the bat that we were only there for the $200.00 credit, so he spent most of his effort trying to sell the other family members.
I could hardly sit still.
I don't get a lot of vacation time and what I do get is worth a hell of a lot more than $100 an hour to me.
posted by imjustsaying at 2:10 PM on April 23, 2008
This winter, we stayed in one of their luxury timeshare condos in the Caribbean; largely on their dime. We were cajoled by another family member into going to a sales presentation to get the free goodies ($200.00 spendable at the resort's shops and restaurants). We pretty much let the salesman know right off the bat that we were only there for the $200.00 credit, so he spent most of his effort trying to sell the other family members.
I could hardly sit still.
I don't get a lot of vacation time and what I do get is worth a hell of a lot more than $100 an hour to me.
posted by imjustsaying at 2:10 PM on April 23, 2008
I tend to look at timeshares this way:
If they were great, fairly priced products that offered legitimate value to buyers, there would be nice, normal storefronts and internet sites that tried to sell them. People who were interested in timeshares would go to the stores or browse the websites, select the options and items they wanted, get a price, make a decision and maybe buy them.
Instead, people are duped into attending presentations through the offer of expensive and often fraudulent prizes, where they're pressured by hypey sales people into buying something right now, today, before the great offer expires.
There's just something so inherently wrong with that picture that it's impossible for me to believe that timeshares are not a scam.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:11 PM on April 23, 2008
If they were great, fairly priced products that offered legitimate value to buyers, there would be nice, normal storefronts and internet sites that tried to sell them. People who were interested in timeshares would go to the stores or browse the websites, select the options and items they wanted, get a price, make a decision and maybe buy them.
Instead, people are duped into attending presentations through the offer of expensive and often fraudulent prizes, where they're pressured by hypey sales people into buying something right now, today, before the great offer expires.
There's just something so inherently wrong with that picture that it's impossible for me to believe that timeshares are not a scam.
posted by jacquilynne at 2:11 PM on April 23, 2008
We went to a points-based timeshare presentation. If you are the type of American who will be taking a Europe/Hawaii-type vacation, a week at Disney-type vacation, and a long-weekend at the beach/Vegas-type vacation all in one year, every year, year after year, points-based timeshares might be worth the cost. That is, when compared to rack-rate hotel rooms and standard airfare (we were promised the ability to turn in points for discount air tickets).
But that's an awful lot of vacation. If timehares are a scam, it's because they're using high pressure sales tactics to get you spend a lot more on vacations than you do now. Don't be surprised if the presenter spends much of his time trying to convince you that you're not taking enough vacation days now, that you need to adopt the European model, work to live, don't live to work, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Also, if you're at all the type of person who has trouble hanging up on salespeople because you don't want to seem mean, don't go. Because there will be high pressure sales tactics. Also, did I mention there'd be high pressure sales tactics?
posted by hhc5 at 2:21 PM on April 23, 2008
But that's an awful lot of vacation. If timehares are a scam, it's because they're using high pressure sales tactics to get you spend a lot more on vacations than you do now. Don't be surprised if the presenter spends much of his time trying to convince you that you're not taking enough vacation days now, that you need to adopt the European model, work to live, don't live to work, blah, blah, blah, blah.
Also, if you're at all the type of person who has trouble hanging up on salespeople because you don't want to seem mean, don't go. Because there will be high pressure sales tactics. Also, did I mention there'd be high pressure sales tactics?
posted by hhc5 at 2:21 PM on April 23, 2008
hhc5 wrote "Don't be surprised if the presenter spends much of his time trying to convince you that you're not taking enough vacation days now, that you need to adopt the European model, work to live, don't live to work, blah, blah, blah, blah."
That was a significant part of the salesman's pitch to us, too.
posted by imjustsaying at 2:45 PM on April 23, 2008
That was a significant part of the salesman's pitch to us, too.
posted by imjustsaying at 2:45 PM on April 23, 2008
we pay £1,350 per year maintenance, charges plus obviously our travel costs, and a further £200 to RCI for the additional range of properties.
See, that is why I think timeshares are foolish. For three thousand US dollars PLUS "travel costs" (!), I could most certainly find a lovely four week vacation somewhere, without all the timeshare nonsense and complication.
If you're flexible and open with dates and/or locations, in fact, I think you can do a great deal better just by signing up to some of the online bargain-finding sites (Orbitz, Sidestep, LastMinute) and each of the airlines' own sale pages, then checking their bargains each week.
Every week my e-mail is replete with legit offers for resort vacations WITH FLIGHTS and hotels for $hundreds, not $thousands. There are often air-hotel-admission bundles to Disney, Las Vegas, Hawaii, the Caribbean, Europe for $100-300 per week, including airfare. Occasionally, when the dates and location line up favorably, I take one.
With travel/vacation pricing so low and so competitive these days, I don't understand timeshares at all. It's not 1970 anymore.
posted by rokusan at 4:51 PM on April 23, 2008
See, that is why I think timeshares are foolish. For three thousand US dollars PLUS "travel costs" (!), I could most certainly find a lovely four week vacation somewhere, without all the timeshare nonsense and complication.
If you're flexible and open with dates and/or locations, in fact, I think you can do a great deal better just by signing up to some of the online bargain-finding sites (Orbitz, Sidestep, LastMinute) and each of the airlines' own sale pages, then checking their bargains each week.
Every week my e-mail is replete with legit offers for resort vacations WITH FLIGHTS and hotels for $hundreds, not $thousands. There are often air-hotel-admission bundles to Disney, Las Vegas, Hawaii, the Caribbean, Europe for $100-300 per week, including airfare. Occasionally, when the dates and location line up favorably, I take one.
With travel/vacation pricing so low and so competitive these days, I don't understand timeshares at all. It's not 1970 anymore.
posted by rokusan at 4:51 PM on April 23, 2008
I don't have any firsthand experience to share, but the Halogen Guide is a good place to go if you need further information on timeshares and other forms of vacation clubs.
posted by hellopanda at 2:54 AM on April 24, 2008
posted by hellopanda at 2:54 AM on April 24, 2008
Rokusan, I agree,
I should mention both of our jobs protect 6 weeks paid holiday per annum which makes this a good option for us (now that we know how to play it, last year we used 4 weeks and gifted 4 more in the off-season). But others we know with 2 weeks a year holidays definitely find last minute deals cheaper.
I understand even really well paying jobs in the USA do not carry as much annual leave entitlement so maybe I shouldn't have compared apples and oranges. Apologies.
We did this cheap break thing for years, but the last minute deals didn't have heated jacuzzi's on the balcony and a view of an Incan temple. As I said YMMV.
posted by Wilder at 1:42 PM on April 24, 2008
I should mention both of our jobs protect 6 weeks paid holiday per annum which makes this a good option for us (now that we know how to play it, last year we used 4 weeks and gifted 4 more in the off-season). But others we know with 2 weeks a year holidays definitely find last minute deals cheaper.
I understand even really well paying jobs in the USA do not carry as much annual leave entitlement so maybe I shouldn't have compared apples and oranges. Apologies.
We did this cheap break thing for years, but the last minute deals didn't have heated jacuzzi's on the balcony and a view of an Incan temple. As I said YMMV.
posted by Wilder at 1:42 PM on April 24, 2008
I have had timeshare for 9 years and it is excellent.. It has paid for itself 3 times over and as a result I have saved a lot of money.
The number one rule in buying timeshare is buy at a highly desirable location. I own in the caribbean and I believe that is the difference, I have been able to go where i want and when!
posted by Cohiba4009 at 12:44 PM on March 12, 2009
The number one rule in buying timeshare is buy at a highly desirable location. I own in the caribbean and I believe that is the difference, I have been able to go where i want and when!
posted by Cohiba4009 at 12:44 PM on March 12, 2009
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posted by farmdoggie at 11:04 AM on April 23, 2008