FriendFilter: Help me make sense of my friend .
March 12, 2008 10:53 PM Subscribe
FriendFilter: Help me make sense of my friend .
I'm a neuroscience student at the University of Wisconsin - Madison.
My friend, who is my age, has all the same interests I do, as far as I know. Same beliefs (we're both atheists and active in the atheist blogosphere), very similar things we want to do with our lives (I want to do research on the neurogenetics of intelligence, he wants to do consciousness research, I want to earn a PhD in neuroscience, he wants to earn a PhD in some cognitive-related field), most of the same activities, both majoring in the same thing, both intensely ambitious and with the heart to match, lots of similarities all across the board. (I'm female, my friend is male.)
This is quite possibly the first person my age I have ever respected without fail, beside myself. My friend is an amazing person, and I think incredibly highly of him - and even if I didn't have a crush on him, I'd think incredibly highly of him because he is just that great!
He is incredibly taciturn around me. The words do flow in conversation with me at times, but only when other people are around. I have wondered, at times, whether his different behavior around me belies either a massive crush in return or a general dislike of me. Tonight, the conversation was flowing when I, curious, wanted to look at the swing dancing that he'd mentioned for months. However, afterwards, we had a late dinner, and he just kind of sat and ate. I attempted to talk, and he responded, just, uh, not much - granted, it was 11 PM, and he'd had a test during the day and has another one in two days and is probably nearly a damn zombie by now. The night before, he was incredibly effusive, even seemed comfortable when we were sitting next to each other, didn't seem to mind the fact that various limbs touched at some point, and seemed to enjoy my company. He doesn't seem to show any clear discomfort, though, but I do wonder, particularly because of the fact that I cannot seem to read him so well.
I am occasionally awkward as shit around him, but that happens when you have a crush on someone, particularly a good friend.
Sometimes I wonder if he has been through quite as much as I have or if he has quite as much maturity, because although we are both incredibly intelligent, he may have had a far more cushy life than I had. (And that is just economically - I went through about six years of horrific abuse as a child, and seem to have come through it with only some existential depression, which is being taken care of right now, and some anxiety.)
I don't know how to really find out where he falls on the great big plot of lover, friend, or just another person who I know .
I would like to be able to talk about Big Things such as the future of scientific research in our field and in other fields, new ideas on how to improve the world, eventually be able to divulge some of my inner questions, share good times, have conversations lasting hours where we forget where the minutes are going, and generally coexist with him in mutual enjoyment of each other's presence. Ideally, this would also include the wonders of hugs, kisses, and sex and a relationship, but that's the more, uh, more-than-friends focused things I want.
I am not sure what my problem is here - what my expectations should be of a friend (am I asking of someone who is 20 what one would ordinarily ask of someone who is 25 to 30?)
I'm a neuroscience student at the University of Wisconsin - Madison.
My friend, who is my age, has all the same interests I do, as far as I know. Same beliefs (we're both atheists and active in the atheist blogosphere), very similar things we want to do with our lives (I want to do research on the neurogenetics of intelligence, he wants to do consciousness research, I want to earn a PhD in neuroscience, he wants to earn a PhD in some cognitive-related field), most of the same activities, both majoring in the same thing, both intensely ambitious and with the heart to match, lots of similarities all across the board. (I'm female, my friend is male.)
This is quite possibly the first person my age I have ever respected without fail, beside myself. My friend is an amazing person, and I think incredibly highly of him - and even if I didn't have a crush on him, I'd think incredibly highly of him because he is just that great!
He is incredibly taciturn around me. The words do flow in conversation with me at times, but only when other people are around. I have wondered, at times, whether his different behavior around me belies either a massive crush in return or a general dislike of me. Tonight, the conversation was flowing when I, curious, wanted to look at the swing dancing that he'd mentioned for months. However, afterwards, we had a late dinner, and he just kind of sat and ate. I attempted to talk, and he responded, just, uh, not much - granted, it was 11 PM, and he'd had a test during the day and has another one in two days and is probably nearly a damn zombie by now. The night before, he was incredibly effusive, even seemed comfortable when we were sitting next to each other, didn't seem to mind the fact that various limbs touched at some point, and seemed to enjoy my company. He doesn't seem to show any clear discomfort, though, but I do wonder, particularly because of the fact that I cannot seem to read him so well.
I am occasionally awkward as shit around him, but that happens when you have a crush on someone, particularly a good friend.
Sometimes I wonder if he has been through quite as much as I have or if he has quite as much maturity, because although we are both incredibly intelligent, he may have had a far more cushy life than I had. (And that is just economically - I went through about six years of horrific abuse as a child, and seem to have come through it with only some existential depression, which is being taken care of right now, and some anxiety.)
I don't know how to really find out where he falls on the great big plot of lover, friend, or just another person who I know .
I would like to be able to talk about Big Things such as the future of scientific research in our field and in other fields, new ideas on how to improve the world, eventually be able to divulge some of my inner questions, share good times, have conversations lasting hours where we forget where the minutes are going, and generally coexist with him in mutual enjoyment of each other's presence. Ideally, this would also include the wonders of hugs, kisses, and sex and a relationship, but that's the more, uh, more-than-friends focused things I want.
I am not sure what my problem is here - what my expectations should be of a friend (am I asking of someone who is 20 what one would ordinarily ask of someone who is 25 to 30?)
This post was deleted for the following reason: You asked essentially the same question three weeks ago; this is pushing pretty dangerously into repeat territory when you could add any new details to a followup comment in that thread. -- cortex
Wait, you just asked this question. What are you asking now, that's different from before?
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:19 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:19 PM on March 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
SWEET FANCY CHRISTMAS JUST ASK HIM TO BONE YOU ALREADY.
But maybe not in those exact words.
posted by Anonymous at 11:31 PM on March 12, 2008
But maybe not in those exact words.
posted by Anonymous at 11:31 PM on March 12, 2008
He's probably as awkward as you are, you both being giant geeks and all (I say this lovingly).
Here's what I do in situations where, figuratively or literally, my face is 2 inches away from a man I want and he hasn't received the clue: I say, "Kiss me." If that's too quick of a move for you, tell him you have a crush on him, in those words.
I used to be shy, myself. Still am to some extent. Dive in, just this once...see how it feels.
posted by sarelicar at 11:50 PM on March 12, 2008
Here's what I do in situations where, figuratively or literally, my face is 2 inches away from a man I want and he hasn't received the clue: I say, "Kiss me." If that's too quick of a move for you, tell him you have a crush on him, in those words.
I used to be shy, myself. Still am to some extent. Dive in, just this once...see how it feels.
posted by sarelicar at 11:50 PM on March 12, 2008
It doesn't sound like he's into you, even speaking as someone quite shy (just sitting and eating is generally my "unpleasant social obligation preventing me from enjoying my solitude" mode). That doesn't mean that he dislikes you at all, but this tends to be a reaction to perceived clinginess or neediness, which unless it's talked about will soon poison the friendship anyway.
I think you have too much invested in your supposed compatibility, which you've built up to an inevitability. At some point you will have to make a move, and then be willing to accept that the friendship may not survive. But you seem to be constructing a storyline for yourself here, that if he doesn't go for it it's because he's too immature for you or hasn't been through enough. That's dangerous territory, and I would try to avoid thinking that way. It's a good way to alienate people and avoid facing the facts--that sometimes there just isn't a connection, no matter how inevitable it seems at first.
posted by nasreddin at 12:08 AM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
I think you have too much invested in your supposed compatibility, which you've built up to an inevitability. At some point you will have to make a move, and then be willing to accept that the friendship may not survive. But you seem to be constructing a storyline for yourself here, that if he doesn't go for it it's because he's too immature for you or hasn't been through enough. That's dangerous territory, and I would try to avoid thinking that way. It's a good way to alienate people and avoid facing the facts--that sometimes there just isn't a connection, no matter how inevitable it seems at first.
posted by nasreddin at 12:08 AM on March 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Maybe you should work on developing two things in this relationship with your friend:
1. How to cultivate and enjoy quiet, wordless time with him where you are both not talking and that's ok.
2. How to deepen your communication bonds with your friend, so that you can feel comfortable asking and talking about deeper things such as neuroscience, and more importantly, sharing and helping each other with feelings and emotional states.
Granted, these two things seem contradictory, but if you can achieve both, you will develop a nice non-smothering and non-intrusive balance with each other that will deepen the friendship. And that will set the stage nicely if more intimate things are possible.
posted by iamkimiam at 12:31 AM on March 13, 2008
1. How to cultivate and enjoy quiet, wordless time with him where you are both not talking and that's ok.
2. How to deepen your communication bonds with your friend, so that you can feel comfortable asking and talking about deeper things such as neuroscience, and more importantly, sharing and helping each other with feelings and emotional states.
Granted, these two things seem contradictory, but if you can achieve both, you will develop a nice non-smothering and non-intrusive balance with each other that will deepen the friendship. And that will set the stage nicely if more intimate things are possible.
posted by iamkimiam at 12:31 AM on March 13, 2008
It sounds to me like he enjoys your friendship, but that he is aware of your crush on him and does not reciprocate it, and is therefore afraid to seem too forward or friendly when the two of you are alone together for fear of leading you on.
posted by frobozz at 3:55 AM on March 13, 2008
posted by frobozz at 3:55 AM on March 13, 2008
Response by poster: See, part of the problem might be that I am completely clueless as how to conduct myself in this situation. I certainly have other friends who I talk to, though partially by virtue of propinquity I see this person rather a lot more often. (He's in two of my classes and lives across the lawn, so we run into each other extremely frequently.) I do, I think, make some concerted effort to do things with people (bear in mind we are all students who have precious little time to do anything, so it's hard to really do anything with anyone. This is actually the longest stretch of days in which I've seen him, and he and I actually have worked rather closely for the last few days because Richard Dawkins came into town and our organization did a lot of assistance and a bunch of us were working together. (The content of all but one of the three times I've contacted him by phone in the past four days has been 'What's going on with Dawkins?' 'When's the private lecture?' 'Are we tabling after the Dawkins lecture?' because he's the only one who knows about this. He's the de facto leader of the organization and I'm one of maybe five regular attendees who helped him with this thing.) I see him on average maybe two days a week (he's in one of my classes during two more days of the week, but we rarely speak during those times because of the fact that we both have to get somewhere)
In my excitement that I know this person, I have been stumbling over myself and generally acting, in my opinion, incredibly silly.
See, I don't know how to interpret being quiet either - I suppose there seems to be no distinction between the two different situations, and this person is the kind of person where sometimes they can be so baffling as to really merit an observation of what they do next .
posted by kldickson at 5:48 AM on March 13, 2008
In my excitement that I know this person, I have been stumbling over myself and generally acting, in my opinion, incredibly silly.
See, I don't know how to interpret being quiet either - I suppose there seems to be no distinction between the two different situations, and this person is the kind of person where sometimes they can be so baffling as to really merit an observation of what they do next .
posted by kldickson at 5:48 AM on March 13, 2008
He's awkward. You're awkward. He doesn't know how to tell you he likes you. You don't know how to tell him you like him.
I suggest alcohol to make things flow better.
Enjoy :P
posted by PowerCat at 6:04 AM on March 13, 2008
I suggest alcohol to make things flow better.
Enjoy :P
posted by PowerCat at 6:04 AM on March 13, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
He was having a down day? Or maybe he has some psych issue that makes him moody and withdrawn sometimes? We can't tell, you just have to observe and do your best to figure it out. You are learning how to read people; there's no shortcut in that process. (If his taciturnity will always drive you crazy in a relationship, that might be a reason to not get into a relationship with him.)
About being friends:
It sounds like he likes you - great! Maybe he even is interested in you, as you seem to be in him. Also great! Find a way of broaching this issue, subtly or by just asking.
Two cautions, you can decide how much these apply to your situation:
You can like/love each other without becoming each other's all and everything, being together every moment of the day, filling absolutely all of each other's needs. That's an unrealistic expectation; even with the best-matched partners, it would become suffocating. Don't imagine that romantic relationships should fill every need in one's life (be the only true intellectual partnership, always have fabulous conversations, always exciting, etc). A relationship with him could be great, but it shouldn't become your whole world or you will be putting too much pressure on it and eventually it will fail.
And relatedly: Don't build him up to be the Only One who can ever really fulfill you. He isn't. He's a good guy and you have a lot in common, that's great -- but if you mentally build him up into an imaginary perfect person, I guarantee that your relationship will fail and you'll be hurt. He's a good guy with characteristics you admire, and (I assume) you're physically attracted to him too. Excellent. Pursue it on that basis, not on the "if we can't be together, I'll lose my only chance at happiness" basis.
posted by LobsterMitten at 11:17 PM on March 12, 2008