Smog Testing in California Private Sale
February 3, 2008 11:22 AM
I bought a car in California from a private seller, and the smog certification is 100 days hold and I have been unable to change the title over to my name because of this...
I suck at buying cars and this car seemed to run fine when I tested it out. When I went to get the car smog tested, the guy at the shop said the check engine light had been turned off and that even if the car is bought "as is" the seller is still responsible for paying to get the car fixed to the point where it will pass the smog test.
My main dilemma is when the light is fixed what if there are tons of problems, how do I make sure the seller pays for these things, I plan on calling him and telling him what happened today... I guess my only reprieve would be small claims court?
I suck at buying cars and this car seemed to run fine when I tested it out. When I went to get the car smog tested, the guy at the shop said the check engine light had been turned off and that even if the car is bought "as is" the seller is still responsible for paying to get the car fixed to the point where it will pass the smog test.
My main dilemma is when the light is fixed what if there are tons of problems, how do I make sure the seller pays for these things, I plan on calling him and telling him what happened today... I guess my only reprieve would be small claims court?
Unless there is some specific legal requirement that the previous owner pay to get the car certified I'm sure you're absolutely stuck paying for whatever repairs the car may need. Used cars are almost always sold as-is, caveat emptor, etc.
Unless you got something in writing from the seller, you're probably on your own.
Still, it's worth checking up on the smog law... maybe even look for help at a local law clinic.
Good luck.
posted by wfrgms at 11:42 AM on February 3, 2008
Unless you got something in writing from the seller, you're probably on your own.
Still, it's worth checking up on the smog law... maybe even look for help at a local law clinic.
Good luck.
posted by wfrgms at 11:42 AM on February 3, 2008
wfrgms: Are you a lawyer? I'm pretty sure that you are not allowed to actively deceive someone even during an "as is" sale, which is what deliberately turning off a warning light to hide a problem would be. But I'm not a lawyer.
posted by Justinian at 12:35 PM on February 3, 2008
posted by Justinian at 12:35 PM on February 3, 2008
Seconding Justinian - IIRC disabling a CEL to sell the car is fraud. Also, if the car was first sold as a California emissions-compliant vehicle, its pollution controls warranty is likely to be 10 years / 100,000 miles.
The situation after this is likely to be a bit murky. If the CEL is on it doesn't necessarily point to anything really awful going on: recent cars will turn on the light if the gas cap isn't fully tightened, just for example.
You will likely find answers at the California Bureau of Auto Repair site.
posted by jet_silver at 12:59 PM on February 3, 2008
The situation after this is likely to be a bit murky. If the CEL is on it doesn't necessarily point to anything really awful going on: recent cars will turn on the light if the gas cap isn't fully tightened, just for example.
You will likely find answers at the California Bureau of Auto Repair site.
posted by jet_silver at 12:59 PM on February 3, 2008
Proving that the check engine light may be tricky:
1: How to prove it as done deliberately.
2: How to prove it was the seller. They could easily argue they sent it into the garage to get fixed because the light was on - it was off when he got it back. "The garage must have screwed me over".
If you are supposed to be given a valid smog ticket when buying a car in Cali law, then by accepting and paying for the car without one may be argued to be implicit acceptance of taking the responsibility on yourself of getting it past the smog test. This is by no means clear cut.
posted by Brockles at 1:03 PM on February 3, 2008
1: How to prove it as done deliberately.
2: How to prove it was the seller. They could easily argue they sent it into the garage to get fixed because the light was on - it was off when he got it back. "The garage must have screwed me over".
If you are supposed to be given a valid smog ticket when buying a car in Cali law, then by accepting and paying for the car without one may be argued to be implicit acceptance of taking the responsibility on yourself of getting it past the smog test. This is by no means clear cut.
posted by Brockles at 1:03 PM on February 3, 2008
Unless there is some specific legal requirement that the previous owner pay to get the car certified
In California, it is the seller's responsibility to provide a valid smog certificate to the buyer (which means that the car passed a smog test no more than 90 days before the sale). This is different than many other states. "As-is" or no, you can't legally sell a car without one, and the law puts the burden on the seller.
(I'm assuming that the smog check was more than 90 days before the date the car was sold to you... if you've been waiting before going to the DMV, then the problem is yours...)
Tell the seller that the law says that he needs to get you a valid smog certificate. If he refuses, or otherwise balks, then get the car fixed, save the receipts, send him a bill, then go to small claims court.
And chalk it up to a learning experience. When buying a used car, you should always know what is expected of a seller, and what you'll need to re-register the vehicle.
posted by toxic at 2:20 PM on February 3, 2008
In California, it is the seller's responsibility to provide a valid smog certificate to the buyer (which means that the car passed a smog test no more than 90 days before the sale). This is different than many other states. "As-is" or no, you can't legally sell a car without one, and the law puts the burden on the seller.
(I'm assuming that the smog check was more than 90 days before the date the car was sold to you... if you've been waiting before going to the DMV, then the problem is yours...)
Tell the seller that the law says that he needs to get you a valid smog certificate. If he refuses, or otherwise balks, then get the car fixed, save the receipts, send him a bill, then go to small claims court.
And chalk it up to a learning experience. When buying a used car, you should always know what is expected of a seller, and what you'll need to re-register the vehicle.
posted by toxic at 2:20 PM on February 3, 2008
Unless there is some specific legal requirement that the previous owner pay to get the car certified
Yes in CA there is and I've been through this (long story involving car being sold twice in a short period of time, thereby invalidating all kinds of paperwork) and I found that a nice certified letter to the seller outlining their responsibilities under the law and my recourse if they didn't step up did the trick.
posted by fshgrl at 2:50 PM on February 3, 2008
Yes in CA there is and I've been through this (long story involving car being sold twice in a short period of time, thereby invalidating all kinds of paperwork) and I found that a nice certified letter to the seller outlining their responsibilities under the law and my recourse if they didn't step up did the trick.
posted by fshgrl at 2:50 PM on February 3, 2008
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posted by lester's sock puppet at 11:38 AM on February 3, 2008