Canadian nurses in Engalnd? Anglophone nurses in Montreal?
January 16, 2008 11:35 AM
How easy is it for a Canadian nurse to work in England? And how easy would it be for an anglophone nurse from Ontario to find work in Montreal?
My girlfriend is a registered nurse in Toronto, having obtained her degree at U of Toronto (quite respectable). I am finishing my PhD and considering relocating to London, UK, or Montreal, Quebec, because these are the places where I have received postdoc offers from.
The questions that naturally come to mind are:
1) Do registered nurses from Canada, with a Canadian degree and Canadian experience, need additional training/accreditation in the UK? Or is the transition relatively seamless?
2) I know there are a number of English language hospitals in Montreal, most if not all associated with McGill. Are the nurses that work in these hospitals required to speak French as well? (We are both interested in learning French, of course, but it would be some time before we would be fluent enough)
Any information would be greatly appreciated!!
(We are doing our own research, but additional help is always good)
(As for being Canadian and not speaking French ... we are new Canadians)
My girlfriend is a registered nurse in Toronto, having obtained her degree at U of Toronto (quite respectable). I am finishing my PhD and considering relocating to London, UK, or Montreal, Quebec, because these are the places where I have received postdoc offers from.
The questions that naturally come to mind are:
1) Do registered nurses from Canada, with a Canadian degree and Canadian experience, need additional training/accreditation in the UK? Or is the transition relatively seamless?
2) I know there are a number of English language hospitals in Montreal, most if not all associated with McGill. Are the nurses that work in these hospitals required to speak French as well? (We are both interested in learning French, of course, but it would be some time before we would be fluent enough)
Any information would be greatly appreciated!!
(We are doing our own research, but additional help is always good)
(As for being Canadian and not speaking French ... we are new Canadians)
Check the UK Nursing and Midwifery Council, the official registration body. This document contains most of the details.
Assuming her degree is accredited and accepted by the NMC, she would probably have to do a 20 day training program (for adaptation) and then have a supervision period when she is initially practicing nursing.
It should be fairly straightforward. I would call it relatively seamless, mostly bureaucratic.
posted by cushie at 12:21 PM on January 16, 2008
Assuming her degree is accredited and accepted by the NMC, she would probably have to do a 20 day training program (for adaptation) and then have a supervision period when she is initially practicing nursing.
It should be fairly straightforward. I would call it relatively seamless, mostly bureaucratic.
posted by cushie at 12:21 PM on January 16, 2008
Again re Montreal: Here's the OIIQ job bank, for reference.
posted by loiseau at 12:23 PM on January 16, 2008
posted by loiseau at 12:23 PM on January 16, 2008
AFAIK, they are pretty desperate for nurses in Montreal. I met a woman who recently moved from Ontario, with very little French, and it sounded like she had her pick of jobs. She will probably have to pass French proficiency tests eventually, however.
Montreal is definitely worth checking into, anyway. And it's a great place to live!
posted by Salamandrous at 12:46 PM on January 16, 2008
Montreal is definitely worth checking into, anyway. And it's a great place to live!
posted by Salamandrous at 12:46 PM on January 16, 2008
loiseau: She is a neonatal nurse, so at least she would not need French to deal with the patients. Since these Montreal hospitals are self-described as English language hospitals, I imagined that most of the patients would tend to be anglophone montrealers. Also, though McGill does not require students to know French, as far as I know, so I thought these hospitals would have quite a few anglophone medical students.
We will definitely make a few phone calls and inquire about the the language issues.
My general impression of Montreal is that one can easily get by without speaking a word of French.
Salamandrous: I think nurses are in demand everywhere, but it is good to hear that is also true in Montreal.
posted by TheyCallItPeace at 1:39 PM on January 16, 2008
We will definitely make a few phone calls and inquire about the the language issues.
My general impression of Montreal is that one can easily get by without speaking a word of French.
Salamandrous: I think nurses are in demand everywhere, but it is good to hear that is also true in Montreal.
posted by TheyCallItPeace at 1:39 PM on January 16, 2008
In Quebec, by law, members of all professional orders (including nurses) who did not receive their training in French have to pass a French proficiency test (eventually). The level required differs for profession to profession. On the other hand, you are allowed up to three temporary practice permits (of 12 months each, so 3 years) before having to pass the test, which gives you plenty of time. Here is a link to a page with a document in English on how to obtain a Nursing permit in Quebec
That being said, the best would be to contact the MUHC directly, as suggested earlier. I'm sure they need nurses, and from what I hear, the working conditions there are pretty good, especially in terms of career plan.
posted by bluefrog at 1:53 PM on January 16, 2008
That being said, the best would be to contact the MUHC directly, as suggested earlier. I'm sure they need nurses, and from what I hear, the working conditions there are pretty good, especially in terms of career plan.
posted by bluefrog at 1:53 PM on January 16, 2008
TheyCallItPeace: loiseau: She is a neonatal nurse, so at least she would not need French to deal with the patients. Since these Montreal hospitals are self-described as English language hospitals, I imagined that most of the patients would tend to be anglophone montrealers.
Mmm... no, that's not my experience. People go to what's closest, usually, or what provides the services they need. Anyway the unilingual Anglophone population of Montreal just isn't big enough to support all those hospitals. (Statscan says 12.5% have a mother tongue of English, but that doesn't say how many of those people do also speak French. It's a small number who don't.)
I think the term "English-language hospital" has to do with official designations that involve its mandate to provide English-language services -- but this is never without the condition of providing services in French. It just goes without saying that they do that. (To my knowledge there isn't such a thing as an institution here that wouldn't provide service in French.)
My general impression of Montreal is that one can easily get by without speaking a word of French.
Yeah, this is a common impression, but I disagree.
You can get by. Some university students do it for four years. But I wouldn't say it's easy. It's certainly not comfortable. It's kind of rude, quite frankly.
You will need to talk to all kinds of people who don't speak English very well, or at all, or who don't wish to, and you will need to make appointments and order food and make purchases and conduct financial transactions and you can not expect every other person but you to speak both languages. So if you try to live that way you will end up with a lot of awkward conversations, frustration (on your part) and will probably face some (rightful) hostility at times.
You could stick to mostly-Anglo areas of town, and make only Anglo friends, and only go to Anglo-run establishments... rely on your bilingual friends when you need to order a meal in a resto, or whatever, but then you're not really living in Quebec. You're not experiencing the fullness of its culture. You wouldn't be experiencing the aspects of Montreal that people so romanticize and which drew you here.
Sure, people do it. But I'm glad you won't be trying to.
posted by loiseau at 2:48 PM on January 16, 2008
Mmm... no, that's not my experience. People go to what's closest, usually, or what provides the services they need. Anyway the unilingual Anglophone population of Montreal just isn't big enough to support all those hospitals. (Statscan says 12.5% have a mother tongue of English, but that doesn't say how many of those people do also speak French. It's a small number who don't.)
I think the term "English-language hospital" has to do with official designations that involve its mandate to provide English-language services -- but this is never without the condition of providing services in French. It just goes without saying that they do that. (To my knowledge there isn't such a thing as an institution here that wouldn't provide service in French.)
My general impression of Montreal is that one can easily get by without speaking a word of French.
Yeah, this is a common impression, but I disagree.
You can get by. Some university students do it for four years. But I wouldn't say it's easy. It's certainly not comfortable. It's kind of rude, quite frankly.
You will need to talk to all kinds of people who don't speak English very well, or at all, or who don't wish to, and you will need to make appointments and order food and make purchases and conduct financial transactions and you can not expect every other person but you to speak both languages. So if you try to live that way you will end up with a lot of awkward conversations, frustration (on your part) and will probably face some (rightful) hostility at times.
You could stick to mostly-Anglo areas of town, and make only Anglo friends, and only go to Anglo-run establishments... rely on your bilingual friends when you need to order a meal in a resto, or whatever, but then you're not really living in Quebec. You're not experiencing the fullness of its culture. You wouldn't be experiencing the aspects of Montreal that people so romanticize and which drew you here.
Sure, people do it. But I'm glad you won't be trying to.
posted by loiseau at 2:48 PM on January 16, 2008
It's not that hard to get a job as an english nurse in Montreal. You definitely have to do the French test, but you've got a year to do it, and two extensions allowed. Best of all, if you're a Quebec resident you can get easily get Free french courses, so unless you don't want to learn French at all....
posted by furtive at 4:18 PM on January 16, 2008
posted by furtive at 4:18 PM on January 16, 2008
As others have said, she would have to take French classes. Unless those courses and the tests are run by completely unrealistic people, they won't expect her to be French-as-a-mother-tongue fluent anytime soon.
Based on the time I spent at the Royal Vic and the General (not working there - accompanying and visiting a family member who was getting treatment there), the patients are not mostly anglos. Well, maybe "mostly" in a just-barely-over-50% sense... maybe. That's just a snapshot of those who happened to be in the same waiting rooms and floors at those times, however. There were also many francophones and allophones. If your girlfriend speaks another language (Cantonese, Mandarin, Spanish, Arabic, Greek, whatever), that could be a plus.
Also, though McGill does not require students to know French, as far as I know, so I thought these hospitals would have quite a few anglophone medical students.
McGill is required however, IIRC, to allow francophone students the option to write their papers and exams in French. Except, I imagine, in a language course where that would obviously be counterproductive. There's a fair number of primarily French McGill students.
There are quite a few anglo med students, and quite a few bilingual-to-varying-degrees med students. When I was visiting the aforementioned family member after surgery, there were a couple doctors who - when doing rounds - would speak to their med students about the patient in French. Said family member of mine doesn't understand a lick of French (he immigrated here before the 70s, when Quebec was legally bilingual).
My general impression of Montreal is that one can easily get by without speaking a word of French.
You can get by, especially as a tourist. But doing so if you want to settle down here would be inadvisable. I wouldn't characterize not learning French (or having a hard time with it, or being hesitant/shy about minimal French skills) as rude though; I save 'rude' for overt actions, like those two doctors.
posted by CKmtl at 6:07 PM on January 16, 2008
Based on the time I spent at the Royal Vic and the General (not working there - accompanying and visiting a family member who was getting treatment there), the patients are not mostly anglos. Well, maybe "mostly" in a just-barely-over-50% sense... maybe. That's just a snapshot of those who happened to be in the same waiting rooms and floors at those times, however. There were also many francophones and allophones. If your girlfriend speaks another language (Cantonese, Mandarin, Spanish, Arabic, Greek, whatever), that could be a plus.
Also, though McGill does not require students to know French, as far as I know, so I thought these hospitals would have quite a few anglophone medical students.
McGill is required however, IIRC, to allow francophone students the option to write their papers and exams in French. Except, I imagine, in a language course where that would obviously be counterproductive. There's a fair number of primarily French McGill students.
There are quite a few anglo med students, and quite a few bilingual-to-varying-degrees med students. When I was visiting the aforementioned family member after surgery, there were a couple doctors who - when doing rounds - would speak to their med students about the patient in French. Said family member of mine doesn't understand a lick of French (he immigrated here before the 70s, when Quebec was legally bilingual).
My general impression of Montreal is that one can easily get by without speaking a word of French.
You can get by, especially as a tourist. But doing so if you want to settle down here would be inadvisable. I wouldn't characterize not learning French (or having a hard time with it, or being hesitant/shy about minimal French skills) as rude though; I save 'rude' for overt actions, like those two doctors.
posted by CKmtl at 6:07 PM on January 16, 2008
Ckmtl: she is fluent in a couple of other languages, and it has been quite useful in her nursing practice over the last year. I imagine that it would come in handy in Montreal as well -- thanks for pointing it out.
We definitely plan on learning French, I am just wondering whether she can start working without any French at all, or with the minimal she would be able to learn in the next 4/5 months in Toronto. She is an awesome nurse, and I know she would be a great asset for any neonatal intensive care unit (she works at Sick Kids' right now).
All this information about Montreal has been extremely helpful! Thanks everyone!
P.S. -- Quebec was legally bilingual at some point?
posted by TheyCallItPeace at 8:06 AM on January 17, 2008
We definitely plan on learning French, I am just wondering whether she can start working without any French at all, or with the minimal she would be able to learn in the next 4/5 months in Toronto. She is an awesome nurse, and I know she would be a great asset for any neonatal intensive care unit (she works at Sick Kids' right now).
All this information about Montreal has been extremely helpful! Thanks everyone!
P.S. -- Quebec was legally bilingual at some point?
posted by TheyCallItPeace at 8:06 AM on January 17, 2008
P.S. -- Quebec was legally bilingual at some point?
Prior to 1974, Quebec was legally bilingual, see Bill 22. New Brunswick is officially bilingual.
posted by racingjs at 10:14 AM on January 17, 2008
Prior to 1974, Quebec was legally bilingual, see Bill 22. New Brunswick is officially bilingual.
posted by racingjs at 10:14 AM on January 17, 2008
see Bill 22
And Bill 101, which came after and expanded upon it.
posted by CKmtl at 10:17 AM on January 17, 2008
And Bill 101, which came after and expanded upon it.
posted by CKmtl at 10:17 AM on January 17, 2008
A friend of mine works at the Montreal Children's hospital, which is part of the McGill University set of hospitals. She relocated from Calgary and had a hell of a time getting everything straightened out so that she could work, even though she speaks French fluently. (She did, incidentally, have to do a French fluency test; being at a McGill hospital doesn't exempt you from that.) The impression she gave me is that at the moment, the system is so bureaucratic that despite the need for nurses there are still a lot of pointless hoops to jump through.
posted by louigi at 4:19 PM on January 17, 2008
posted by louigi at 4:19 PM on January 17, 2008
This thread is closed to new comments.
MUHC
Jewish General
OIIQ
Agence de la santé et des services sociaux de Montréal
You would be eligible for free French courses through the CSDM once you arrived, but each level takes about 7-8 weeks. There are six levels of oral courses and another one of writing. (And I think they might have added a pre-level-1 course for people who know zero French.)
posted by loiseau at 12:11 PM on January 16, 2008