GradSchoolFilter: How bad did I screw up, and can it be fixed?
November 28, 2007 9:14 AM
I'm trying to get a M.S. in Computer Science, I already have a B.S. in Computer Science. Started last year as a full time student, took a semester off, and now trying to take classes while holding a full time job.
My horrible time management skills combined with not knowing how crazy my job gets in August has caused me to do poorly in class. So poorly, that I may be "ineligible to continue graduate study". I'm very de-motivated by the whole situation and wondering what my options are, so I have a couple of questions
:
Started last year as a full-time grad student on an assistantship. I later realized that I was burnt out from getting my undergrad and that I needed time off of school. Got a job and decided to give school a break.
There is a 5 year limit on me completing the degree, and it started last August (2006). I figured if I did at least one class a semester, I could get extremely close to that limit. I also planned to increase my course load as I went further along. Given that, I started again this past August in a class that I thought I needed to complete to be able to take other courses. I had reservations about not being ready to go back yet, but I thought that taking it slow and easy would have worked.
My job is full time, and gets extremely busy around August. I hadn't taken that into account when I decided to go back to school. It offers no tuition assistance for what I do, but my manager has been flexible with letting me take time off. I'm the only person in the office that can do integration between different systems, and I have never-ending list of pending projects.
I'm not doing well in the class because I can't seem to unplug myself from my job long enough to do the homework and study. I'm to the point of being apathetic about the whole situation. I'm even doubting whether this is the degree I want.
The only other degrees (undergrad or graduate) I would be content in pursuing are ones that wouldn't help me in job advancement or I don't have enough background in (philosophy, psychology, [a particular language] studies, cognitive science). I'm aware that getting some business knowledge under my belt would make me the ever so desirable "techy w/ business experience", but I have no interest in that.
So, I'm confused and trying to figure out where to go from here. All advice is appreciated.
:
- Is it possible to "switch majors" in Graduate School?
- Is a second undergad degree regarded at as highly as a master's degree? I'm considering going back for a second undergrad if I can't continue with Graduate study.
- If I go to another school for a totally different program, is it okay not to mention my current school when I apply? I don't want to have what happened at this school weigh negatively on me getting in somewhere else.
- I'm working as a Programmer/Analyst. I was going for the Master's to get better job prospects. Would it be a better use of my time to get training on specific technologies rather than an advanced degree?
Started last year as a full-time grad student on an assistantship. I later realized that I was burnt out from getting my undergrad and that I needed time off of school. Got a job and decided to give school a break.
There is a 5 year limit on me completing the degree, and it started last August (2006). I figured if I did at least one class a semester, I could get extremely close to that limit. I also planned to increase my course load as I went further along. Given that, I started again this past August in a class that I thought I needed to complete to be able to take other courses. I had reservations about not being ready to go back yet, but I thought that taking it slow and easy would have worked.
My job is full time, and gets extremely busy around August. I hadn't taken that into account when I decided to go back to school. It offers no tuition assistance for what I do, but my manager has been flexible with letting me take time off. I'm the only person in the office that can do integration between different systems, and I have never-ending list of pending projects.
I'm not doing well in the class because I can't seem to unplug myself from my job long enough to do the homework and study. I'm to the point of being apathetic about the whole situation. I'm even doubting whether this is the degree I want.
The only other degrees (undergrad or graduate) I would be content in pursuing are ones that wouldn't help me in job advancement or I don't have enough background in (philosophy, psychology, [a particular language] studies, cognitive science). I'm aware that getting some business knowledge under my belt would make me the ever so desirable "techy w/ business experience", but I have no interest in that.
So, I'm confused and trying to figure out where to go from here. All advice is appreciated.
- Is it possible to "switch majors" in Graduate School?
No, It's not like switching majors in undergrad. You have to apply to the college you plan to switch and get admission again. But you might be able to transfer some credits.
- Is a second undergad degree regarded at as highly as a master's degree?
No, I don't think so.
- If I go to another school for a totally different program, is it okay not to mention my current school when I apply?
If you are not planning on transferring any credit from your current school to the new one, I don't think you need to mention it at all.
- I'm working as a Programmer/Analyst. I was going for the Master's to get better job prospects. Would it be a better use of my time to get training on specific technologies rather than an advanced degree?
I'll let someone else with at least 10-15 years or experience in the industry answer this.
posted by WizKid at 9:42 AM on November 28, 2007
No, It's not like switching majors in undergrad. You have to apply to the college you plan to switch and get admission again. But you might be able to transfer some credits.
- Is a second undergad degree regarded at as highly as a master's degree?
No, I don't think so.
- If I go to another school for a totally different program, is it okay not to mention my current school when I apply?
If you are not planning on transferring any credit from your current school to the new one, I don't think you need to mention it at all.
- I'm working as a Programmer/Analyst. I was going for the Master's to get better job prospects. Would it be a better use of my time to get training on specific technologies rather than an advanced degree?
I'll let someone else with at least 10-15 years or experience in the industry answer this.
posted by WizKid at 9:42 AM on November 28, 2007
[Can you imagine what might happen if the second school found out? You'd be risking it all, when you could have found a way to tell truth. Cast it as a revelation of some sort. People change streams all the time, but lying about it, not a great idea!]
I don't think he is lying at all. You just don't mention that. It's not like you are hiding a criminal offense in a job interview. The fact that you tried to do a Masters at one university has nothing to do with the Master degree you are starting at the new university.
This is just my idea, but I might be wrong.
posted by WizKid at 9:46 AM on November 28, 2007
I don't think he is lying at all. You just don't mention that. It's not like you are hiding a criminal offense in a job interview. The fact that you tried to do a Masters at one university has nothing to do with the Master degree you are starting at the new university.
This is just my idea, but I might be wrong.
posted by WizKid at 9:46 AM on November 28, 2007
A couple of things come to mind -
- if there's a particular technology you like, will specialization in that lead to better pay or a better job (maybe at another company), without worry about the advanced degree?
- can you leverage being the ' do it!' man with your bosses' boss and improve your overall situation? do you have the evidence that you're the -only- person that can do your job?
{yes, there's a bit of mercenary bend to that question...}
I believe the grad degree would only benefit you if you're heading into research or academia at this point. IMHO, If you have less than 10 years of overall experience, skip the grad work for now and build out your overall experience package. After a few more years you'll have a much better idea of where to head.
BTW, I have a BS in Systems Science with 20+ years of experience. I'm looking to leave the field and pursue something that will couple my interest in GIS and ecological issues. When I realized the half-life of any technology related skills is about 18 months, I knew it was time to go...
SandPine
posted by sandpine at 9:46 AM on November 28, 2007
- if there's a particular technology you like, will specialization in that lead to better pay or a better job (maybe at another company), without worry about the advanced degree?
- can you leverage being the ' do it!' man with your bosses' boss and improve your overall situation? do you have the evidence that you're the -only- person that can do your job?
{yes, there's a bit of mercenary bend to that question...}
I believe the grad degree would only benefit you if you're heading into research or academia at this point. IMHO, If you have less than 10 years of overall experience, skip the grad work for now and build out your overall experience package. After a few more years you'll have a much better idea of where to head.
BTW, I have a BS in Systems Science with 20+ years of experience. I'm looking to leave the field and pursue something that will couple my interest in GIS and ecological issues. When I realized the half-life of any technology related skills is about 18 months, I knew it was time to go...
SandPine
posted by sandpine at 9:46 AM on November 28, 2007
Is it possible to "switch majors" in Graduate School?
To "switch majors," I believe you'd have to apply directly to the department you want to change to as if you were a new applicant. Unlike undergrad, where admissions are all handled by the same body, each department handles their own graduate admissions.
Is a second undergad degree regarded at as highly as a master's degree? I'm considering going back for a second undergrad if I can't continue with Graduate study.
Depends highly on the what you're looking to do with it. A BS in CS and Bio is going to better if you're looking to do bioinformatics than a BS/MSc in CS that focused on, say, systems or HCI research. But, needless to say, a BS in CS and History isn't going to carry the weight a BS/MSc in CS is if you're loooking for a programming/analyst type job.
If I go to another school for a totally different program, is it okay not to mention my current school when I apply? I don't want to have what happened at this school weigh negatively on me getting in somewhere else.
Generally a bad idea. Most admissions require transcriptions for every school you've ever attended. They aren't guaranteed to finding out you didn't submit one, but if they do, they'll almost certain refuse admission or throw you out. Especially if you did your undergrad in the same place as your grad studies so far.
I'm working as a Programmer/Analyst. I was going for the Master's to get better job prospects. Would it be a better use of my time to get training on specific technologies rather than an advanced degree?
Again, this depends very much on the field and the place you're applying. If you're looking for a serious academic or research-ish job (not ones that require a PhD obviously, but something similar), an MSc is very helpful. Ditto if you're looking to work for one of the big tech companies and you're looking to stand out. Generally, place like Google won't hire someone with just a BS unless they've got a lot of experience.
However, other places don't put as much emphasis on academic credentials as they do experience and ability to get what they want done. An MSc is a good path to these things, but it's not the only path.
I just finished my MSc in CS a few months ago and now I'm working for a small tech start-up. If you have any specific questions, feel free to MeFiMail me.
posted by Nelsormensch at 9:55 AM on November 28, 2007
To "switch majors," I believe you'd have to apply directly to the department you want to change to as if you were a new applicant. Unlike undergrad, where admissions are all handled by the same body, each department handles their own graduate admissions.
Is a second undergad degree regarded at as highly as a master's degree? I'm considering going back for a second undergrad if I can't continue with Graduate study.
Depends highly on the what you're looking to do with it. A BS in CS and Bio is going to better if you're looking to do bioinformatics than a BS/MSc in CS that focused on, say, systems or HCI research. But, needless to say, a BS in CS and History isn't going to carry the weight a BS/MSc in CS is if you're loooking for a programming/analyst type job.
If I go to another school for a totally different program, is it okay not to mention my current school when I apply? I don't want to have what happened at this school weigh negatively on me getting in somewhere else.
Generally a bad idea. Most admissions require transcriptions for every school you've ever attended. They aren't guaranteed to finding out you didn't submit one, but if they do, they'll almost certain refuse admission or throw you out. Especially if you did your undergrad in the same place as your grad studies so far.
I'm working as a Programmer/Analyst. I was going for the Master's to get better job prospects. Would it be a better use of my time to get training on specific technologies rather than an advanced degree?
Again, this depends very much on the field and the place you're applying. If you're looking for a serious academic or research-ish job (not ones that require a PhD obviously, but something similar), an MSc is very helpful. Ditto if you're looking to work for one of the big tech companies and you're looking to stand out. Generally, place like Google won't hire someone with just a BS unless they've got a lot of experience.
However, other places don't put as much emphasis on academic credentials as they do experience and ability to get what they want done. An MSc is a good path to these things, but it's not the only path.
I just finished my MSc in CS a few months ago and now I'm working for a small tech start-up. If you have any specific questions, feel free to MeFiMail me.
posted by Nelsormensch at 9:55 AM on November 28, 2007
* Is a second undergad degree regarded at as highly as a master's degree? I'm considering going back for a second undergrad if I can't continue with Graduate study.
Absolutely not. A graduate degree is much more valuable.
* If I go to another school for a totally different program, is it okay not to mention my current school when I apply? I don't want to have what happened at this school weigh negatively on me getting in somewhere else.
Meh, I know plenty of people who have started and stopped grad programs for personal reasons. It's not really any of their business.
posted by desuetude at 10:13 AM on November 28, 2007
Absolutely not. A graduate degree is much more valuable.
* If I go to another school for a totally different program, is it okay not to mention my current school when I apply? I don't want to have what happened at this school weigh negatively on me getting in somewhere else.
Meh, I know plenty of people who have started and stopped grad programs for personal reasons. It's not really any of their business.
posted by desuetude at 10:13 AM on November 28, 2007
I'm working as a Programmer/Analyst. I was going for the Master's to get better job prospects. Would it be a better use of my time to get training on specific technologies rather than an advanced degree?
Part of it depends on what you mean by "better" job prospects. Better work environment? Better pay? More opportunities? Better subject areas?
Although I think its not the smartest way to do things, most people who hire for programming jobs look for candidates with experience in a certain technology. When hiring someone for a Ruby On Rails project, most companies will prefer someone with a BS who has worked on 3 previous Rails projects over someone with an MS who has mostly worked in Java. The best way to give yourself the biggest selection in job opportunities is to maintain strong skills in many of the most-used technologies.
Personally, I think training and "certification" are overrated, so I think getting training on specific technologies is a waste of time. You might want to spend your free time working on open source projects in technologies that you would like to work with, because that will give you closer to real world programming experience. Basically I would stay away from anything that will just be a bullet point on your resume, and focus on what you can actually become an expert in.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:26 AM on November 28, 2007
Part of it depends on what you mean by "better" job prospects. Better work environment? Better pay? More opportunities? Better subject areas?
Although I think its not the smartest way to do things, most people who hire for programming jobs look for candidates with experience in a certain technology. When hiring someone for a Ruby On Rails project, most companies will prefer someone with a BS who has worked on 3 previous Rails projects over someone with an MS who has mostly worked in Java. The best way to give yourself the biggest selection in job opportunities is to maintain strong skills in many of the most-used technologies.
Personally, I think training and "certification" are overrated, so I think getting training on specific technologies is a waste of time. You might want to spend your free time working on open source projects in technologies that you would like to work with, because that will give you closer to real world programming experience. Basically I would stay away from anything that will just be a bullet point on your resume, and focus on what you can actually become an expert in.
posted by burnmp3s at 10:26 AM on November 28, 2007
I would be really cautious about hiding previous grad work form another grad school.
Go to your adviser; give your reasons for not doing well, and ask for help resolving the issues.
posted by theora55 at 1:38 PM on November 28, 2007
Go to your adviser; give your reasons for not doing well, and ask for help resolving the issues.
posted by theora55 at 1:38 PM on November 28, 2007
Depending on where you are located, you might try to find a grad program that is compatible with full-time work. Usually if you talk to the director of admissions for the program, then you can explain such things and be considered fairly.
If you happen to be in Seattle, check out this program.
posted by jeffamaphone at 3:08 PM on November 28, 2007
If you happen to be in Seattle, check out this program.
posted by jeffamaphone at 3:08 PM on November 28, 2007
I don't think he is lying at all. You just don't mention that. It's not like you are hiding a criminal offense in a job interview. The fact that you tried to do a Masters at one university has nothing to do with the Master degree you are starting at the new university.
...except that most applications will explicitly ask you for every program of study you have been involved with. If you omit it and they find out (it's a small world), your application can be denied, or you can be removed from the program if you are already in process. It's not worth it. Just be honest; people come and go from grad programs all the time, and if you have a decent reason why, it shouldn't be a problem.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 5:47 AM on November 29, 2007
...except that most applications will explicitly ask you for every program of study you have been involved with. If you omit it and they find out (it's a small world), your application can be denied, or you can be removed from the program if you are already in process. It's not worth it. Just be honest; people come and go from grad programs all the time, and if you have a decent reason why, it shouldn't be a problem.
posted by NotMyselfRightNow at 5:47 AM on November 29, 2007
I got my MSEE part time starting in 2001 and finishing in 2006, one class at a time, like you are planning on doing it.
My very first class, I got a C. This put me on academic probation immediately at my school of choice, only to be able to get off academic probation by raising my GPA to 3.0 or above. My next 5 classes, I got B's in, so I'd get nasty letters each semester saying that I was on academic probation and could be kicked out at any time. Yet, they never did end up kicking me out.
It should be possible to work with the school that you are attending, even if you do poorly in this class to keep going to graduate school if you so desire. If want to stay in school, I'd recommend this route first.
As to career prospects, I found that taking 5 years to get my Master's was too long -- the experience I got at work those 5 years was at least as helpful to my career as the Master's would be. As other posters have said, this can vary from company to company.
Just like College isn't for everyone, graduate work isn't for everyone either. You aren't less of a person if you don't get a Master's, and if this experience is enough to show you it's not for you, better to stop early, then keep going and figure it out after you spend all that money.
posted by garlic at 1:18 PM on November 29, 2007
My very first class, I got a C. This put me on academic probation immediately at my school of choice, only to be able to get off academic probation by raising my GPA to 3.0 or above. My next 5 classes, I got B's in, so I'd get nasty letters each semester saying that I was on academic probation and could be kicked out at any time. Yet, they never did end up kicking me out.
It should be possible to work with the school that you are attending, even if you do poorly in this class to keep going to graduate school if you so desire. If want to stay in school, I'd recommend this route first.
As to career prospects, I found that taking 5 years to get my Master's was too long -- the experience I got at work those 5 years was at least as helpful to my career as the Master's would be. As other posters have said, this can vary from company to company.
Just like College isn't for everyone, graduate work isn't for everyone either. You aren't less of a person if you don't get a Master's, and if this experience is enough to show you it's not for you, better to stop early, then keep going and figure it out after you spend all that money.
posted by garlic at 1:18 PM on November 29, 2007
This thread is closed to new comments.
All universities I've been to would not let you change your master's unless it was to something very closely related with some shared units (i.e. genetic epidemiology to, say, statistical genetics). You'll need to ask your school but my guess is no.
Unless your second bachelor's is significantly different AND capable of getting you a job on its own, I'd do the master's. The world already has a lot of directionless psychology undergrads. Also, you don't necessarily need a specific undergrad to go into a master's if you can convince the department to take you on and you are prepared to do extra work. None of my degrees are directly related to each other and that's been an interesting advantage at times.
Can you imagine what might happen if the second school found out? You'd be risking it all, when you could have found a way to tell truth. Cast it as a revelation of some sort. People change streams all the time, but lying about it, not a great idea!
Whether or not skills are weighted more highly than degree depends exactly on what you plan to specialize in, what the job market is like where you're looking, and what connections you have. If you're already working in a field you'd like to stay in, you're golden. YM here M very much V. Also, good luck!
posted by methylsalicylate at 9:38 AM on November 28, 2007